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Thread: Function Pairs

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    Default Function Pairs

    One thing that I don't like with socionics is how explanations tend to separate the functions. Hidden Agenda in particular explains function pairs as isolated from each other. I thought it might be more constructive to explain how they relate to one another. I'd also like to know how you feel they relate to one another by your own words.

    Hidden Agenda (Mobilizing Function) - Motivation - Hidden Agenda and Creative don't neglect each other
    Ni - ESI/LSI - to understand
    Si - EII/LII - to enjoy
    Ne - LSE/ESE - to take advantage of opportunities
    Se - LIE/EIE - to experience things

    Fi - SLI/ILI - to create harmony
    Ti - SEI/IEI - to have social understanding
    Fe - ILE/SLE - to connect with others
    Te - IEE/SEE - to act of their own accord

    How duals provide (or produce) it for each other
    LIE and ESI
    LIE creatively provides understanding of experiences
    ESI creatively provides new experiences to understand

    LSE and EII
    EII creatively provides opportunities to enjoy
    LSE creatively provides enjoyment of opportunities

    SLI and IEE
    SLI creatively provides the ability to act of one's own accord based on a foundation for harmony
    IEE creatively provides a foundation for harmony that allows acting of one's own accord

    SEI and ILE
    ILE creatively provides a social understanding that allows for connecting with other people
    SEI creatively provides a connection with other people based on a social understanding of those people

    etc.

    Repression - Leading and Suggestive functions
    LIE/LSE and ESI/EII
    LIE/LSE is immersed in acting of their own accord to the point that they neglect harmony and will accept an ESI/EII to manage that for them
    ESI/EII is immersed in creating harmony to the point that they neglect acting of their own accord and will accept an LIE/LSE to manage that for them as well

    etc.

    So? Anyone think this is better? Any major problems with it? Have your own ideas that you think are just better?

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    Haikus
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    lol

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    ITT

    lungs is genius.

    polikujm is homo.



     
    lololol

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    Not sure what you are asking for exactly but the way I view it is, (I mean the functions to me are already relateable organically when I line them up etc.)

    Se: sex. pure animalistic pleasure. feeling how good it is to just be cummed into or something. Not being afraid to challenge something (though it's not sociopathy or aggression which it gets confused for)
    Ni: meaning. doing that with somebody you don't want to see hurt, that you care about. Effectively analyzing a criticism.

    Te: business, movement, go-gettery stuff, details
    Fi: a connection with mutually respectable rules. To Fe valuers i think it feels like really snobby and stuff. Oh I guess it feels like emotions that can be placed in a system and analyzed accurately or something.

    Fe: playful gossip, social lighteartedness
    Ti: raw intellect, a procedure, trivial knowledge (ie why gossip if you won't fight fair, plus playful gossip translates well to trivial knowledge which is what intj ti egos excel in)

    Ne: ideas, a random blurb, communicating multiple ideas together
    Si: harmony, glue, non-hypocriticalness. I mean take bg, who has been typed isfp by many. He just sort of becomes one with everybody. Like Jesus. In a way not even the lookalike infp can do. I guess it relates because if you're going to make some wacky zany quip you should also have this groundedness to it, it should also sound like you know what you are talking about. otherwise Ne would come off as ultra narcissistic lol. even more than it already does to us Ni valuers. *shifts eyes innocently*

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    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    lol
    Well played sir, well played.

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Si: harmony, glue, non-hypocriticalness. I mean take bg, who has been typed isfp by many. He just sort of becomes one with everybody. Like Jesus. In a way not even the lookalike infp can do. I guess it relates because if you're going to make some wacky zany quip you should also have this groundedness to it, it should also sound like you know what you are talking about. otherwise Ne would come off as ultra narcissistic lol. even more than it already does to us Ni valuers. *shifts eyes innocently*
    He removed a like from one of my posts once with his super mod abilities. It made me stop caring about the like system. I never forgot that slight. > : ( Enemies forever. Same with Glam. > : ( I curse them a thousand tortures for their evil trickery. It's only fair!

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    A mod is a thankless job. You gotta keep everybody happy not just one person and you are always forced to see the bigger picture and shit. You make a mistake and the whole ship suffers.

    I only have respect and love for the mods in this place really.

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    no no no, that's all wrong. k, Here's my take.

    Ni is super smart and nerdy and introvertity and submissive like a vagina. They need an Se dick to get them to "open up". The vagina makes the dick feel good and the dick protects the vagina, so it all works out. Se is like a dick.

    Ti is dorky and serious and evil-hearted and thinks it's all a funny calculated game. Fe goes well with that by making everybody accept it and find it funny too. Fe makes the victims laugh at themselves.

    Te is like a lion that wants to eat everything and be king of the jungle. Fi wants everyone to be okay with it, so they make good companions. Partners of destruction and chaos.

    Ne just wants to do shit, especially if it annoys the shit out of people. Like going to walmart to play with toy swords and shields, only to have security escort them out for "loss prevention" of the merchandise. Si helps them calm the fuck down sometimes and relax, but enjoys annoying the shit out of people. So they are like little hedonist buddy fuckers.

    /socionics
    Everyone can stop thinking about socionics now.

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    A mod is a thankless job. You gotta keep everybody happy not just one person and you are always forced to see the bigger picture and shit. You make a mistake and the whole ship suffers.
    But you could say that about any of the posters here. The only difference is mods can enforce rules. If the rules enforced are unfair or partial, they are going to get shit, no matter what posts they like or people they show more regard for. A mod can be partial to what they like, but still treat everyone fairly in their actions. I mean, seriously, it's not rocket science.

    I only have respect and love for the mods in this place really.
    I sort of don't. The way people moderate here is whimsical. I got account moderated for a perceived racial slur and warnings for something that I was just having fun with. And this place has a history of telling people they shouldn't argue with one another (thread locks) and trying to force people to be nice (spoilering everyone's posts). And you'd think that when people talk about socionics, they'd moderate people away from comments like "lol" and such, as what really does that add to a discussion other than to try and get people not to post at all?

    Oh yea, and then there's Confimed who makes threads just to talk shit and then locks them like a little passive-aggressive bitch so no one can say anything back. He/She did that shit back when I had my typing thread and was frustrated with the silly ways people were typing me, as if I was asking for opinions, but didn't want anyone to disagree with my self-typing. What a little bitch.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Lungs, as with all things in dual interactions, a dual has to learn to accept functional outputs without considering them criticism; why are some things considered criticism? Because the person, especially when meeting a dual in later years of their lives, doesn't see the direct benefit of such functional output; they have their own neurosis and views to overcome.

    EII HA is "to be healthy" in striving for their own health and that of others around them, an EII observes the "loss of control" over food and comfort by others around them, especially Extraverts, who strive after the object and not the subject.

    In observation or SUGGESTION of this function in Si, and EII will "prompt" for the return of health, saying such things as "you should eat healthy. It is done because Si HA is subconscious and is WORRIED ABOUT THE HEALTH OF CLOSE RELATIONS. Not to want to control others but through the Ne, possibility of bad health. I'm concerned about you getting diabetes; ect." These are not meant in any way to control the lifestyle of other people, but it is Suggestive Si and that is what it does. Now, I was with an ESE for a year, Matthew. Matt wasn't used to being suggested what to eat; he fought with me, kicking and screaming. I kept saying "I'm sorry, this isn't to judge you, to try to make you feel bad about who you are as a person, because obviously if I didn't like you, I wouldn't be with you. This is done because Si/Ne works together ideal possibility of good health and relations, for the future as it develops not for the immediate present moment. S types are about now, what I'm doing now for me, whether that's eating now for what I want, to feel good, or eating now for my health (that kind of thing).

    Again, in not recognizing the goodwill behind such a function, it can be misunderstood and certainly seen as controlling, critical, etc. In conjunction with Fi, Si HA acts as "in care of the ones we love." I'm sure anyone can love and care for people they love, it's part of human nature, but take it with fussy eaters, the Si HA adjusts to "cooking just what the person likes" but that development needs to get past a self constructed ideal and into reality of S, there's always the threat of the N, idea and ideal of the possibility of the development lurking in the back of the damn mind. LOL

    To give up control is to say to oneself that they trust that there's no ill intention, criticism, and bad will behind such a function's "worrisome behavior" which includes "OMG DID YOU EAT TODAY; or IT KILLS ME TO SEE YOU NOT HAVING HAD ENOUGH TO EAT." It is a function out of love, for me, personally, but it needs to be accepted as such.

    My biggest trouble is with ESE/LSE. Both are accepting of Si HA but both don't recognize what is happening with regards to how when they come in contact with Fi, the function that attaches in love with the an object as it becomes the "owner" of such an object the tendency is to "take in health" the person you love. An undualized dual, or a dual in denial dual, or any number of dual like situation where the dual isn't used to the loving intention behind such a function, you'll get a period of kicking and screaming mostly done because it is new to a dual to see someone offer advice in this territory, in the territory of HA; it's tricky because it emotionally grasps the subconscious fears as well; a subconscious fear of LSE is "to be liked and accepted by people around them" and any indication of not being good enough to measure this gets them to feel uncomfortable and distant, when I have explained again that it's not meant to be a "bad" thing, it's meant to be a deeply connecting and loving agenda; stick it out with your dual and maybe you'll find that intention is more heartwarming than it is threatening or critical.

    The HA of another can be rejected quite nastily especially with types who want to be accepted but don't see how this has nothing to do with acceptance and love.

    You really come to love and appreciate your duals HA over time. Unfortunately, for undualized duals, it's a very very long time and it can be not only emotionally draining but it makes me feel so bad being viewed as the villian of my own conscious circumstance with regards to Si HA and in interaction with ESE and LSE. I'm often thought of as "the skinny bitch who won't stop telling me how to be healthy because she can't understand that I don't have control over some things." It's not that the function makes me see myself as a better person, not at all. I'm skinny but I have a serious liver issue that I have to consider when eating foods. Being skinny doesn't mean I'm in stellar health, but being this way and what society views as "desirable and healthy" and relating this to extraverts and how they filter the society, they think that's what I'm doing. That I'm trying to get them to be skinny. No the intention is for health.

    The Si HA listens, it listens to the needs of the Si activations; for example Michael would often say how much he needed to start eating greens and Si HA takes that into memory and says "in order to be healthy, my partner needs to eat greens" or "I have a cholesterol problem (this was with Matt)" and Si HA is "these things help solve cholesterol problems, eat this."

    The dual has to get over their own neurosis to love an Si HA or any HA
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-24-2013 at 08:33 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    He removed a like from one of my posts once with his super mod abilities. It made me stop caring about the like system. I never forgot that slight. > : ( Enemies forever. Same with Glam. > : ( I curse them a thousand tortures for their evil trickery. It's only fair!
    I've never removed a like from anyones posts, mods/supermods don't even have that ability. you're either paranoid or mistaken about what happened. honestly, I don't remember ever even interacted with you (unless you have a previous account that isn't listed in the username history)

    I know it's unlikely you know which post, but if you do, link me. I'm interested in seeing this.

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    I bet on paranoid. That would explain the mistaken part as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicgerbil View Post
    I've never removed a like from anyones posts, mods/supermods don't even have that ability. you're either paranoid or mistaken about what happened. honestly, I don't remember ever even interacted with you (unless you have a previous account that isn't listed in the username history)
    You may not, but I do. I posted a video Xtal and you liked it. Then maybe a week later I saw the thread again and it was gone. So I looked at my history and glam did the same for another post. Not paranoid, you just didn't care, so you don't remember. Well fine, but I do remember it and it did feel momentarily shitty. It is what it is, but feel free to pretend I'm delusional and imply that because we don't know each other, I shouldn't care. And feel free to deny everything since that's how these things always seem to go. *eye roll*

  14. #14
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    You may not, but I do. I posted a video Xtal and you liked it. Then maybe a week later I saw the thread again and it was gone. So I looked at my history and glam did the same for another post. Not paranoid, you just didn't care, so you don't remember. Well fine, but I do remember it and it did feel momentarily shitty. It is what it is, but feel free to pretend I'm delusional and imply that because we don't know each other, I shouldn't care. And feel free to deny everything since that's how these things always seem to go. *eye roll*
    it's entirely possible that i don't remember the incident, if you can find it and link me to it maybe it'll jog my memory. I'm seriously baffled at the moment though, and can't remember a time on this forum when we ever had the ability to remove likes from posts.

    if it's too much hassle, don't worry about it, just go on hating me or whatever. I'd just hate for you to hate me for some misunderstanding instead of something genuinely shitty that I did to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicgerbil View Post
    it's entirely possible that i don't remember the incident, if you can find it and link me to it maybe it'll jog my memory. I'm seriously baffled at the moment though, and can't remember a time on this forum when we ever had the ability to remove likes from posts.
    Unfortunately, I can't find evidence in my likes anymore because when my account was moderated, I lost all of my constructive/likes up to that point (thanks Kim). It was liked, but when you clicked on the post it was removed. Maybe it was a mistake with the software. I'm not sure now.

    if it's too much hassle, don't worry about it, just go on hating me or whatever. I'd just hate for you to hate me for some misunderstanding instead of something genuinely shitty that I did to you.
    I don't hate you. I guess it just made me a little insecure, wondering why I am posting at all if people are inclined not to want to associate with me, given the choice to remove likes. Maybe I just need a life.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Unfortunately, I can't find evidence in my likes anymore because when my account was moderated, I lost all of my constructive/likes up to that point (thanks Kim). It was liked, but when you clicked on the post it was removed. Maybe it was a mistake with the software. I'm not sure now.
    ehh that sucks. I didn't see anything in my list of likes either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    I don't hate you. I guess it just made me a little insecure, wondering why I am posting at all if people are inclined not to want to associate with me, given the choice to remove likes. Maybe I just need a life.
    well, i know an apology doesn't really mean anything if I don't know what I'm even apologizing for, or what the circumstances were, but if this did happen and I turned you off posting because of it, sorry for that.

  17. #17
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    (and sorry for the derail lungs)

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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Hiddenem:

    YOU['RE] LIKE ME — YOU['RE] REALLY LIKE ME!
    Enters through the face but doesn't always penetrate the brain.
    Shut the fuck up with that tired shit.
    Doing it out there where everyone can see.
    Vomitous spray-cone of imbecilic contagion.
    The lifelong pursuit of the perfect jenkgasm.
    Won't shut the fuck up with that tired shit.
    Hunkered down with one thumb in its mouth and the other in its ass.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    SLI and IEE
    SLI creatively provides the ability to act of one's own accord based on a foundation for harmony
    IEE creatively provides a foundation for harmony that allows acting of one's own accord
    This seems worded kind of strangely, can you clarify?

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    umm

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Reporting:

    One year later, Matt no longer has a cholesterol problem and has lost 20lbs because of me getting him to kick and scream at me. He does have his moments where he can't resist certain foods he loves, but he doesn't let his emotions control his choices. Emotions can be absence of things as well like "eating out of boredom."

    The reason why there's such a pronounced difference here is that when an HA is accepted and an actual change in the Ne HA takes place, there is a new quo set. The new quo for Matt was essentially that he liked the results he saw, and because of that it seemed to be the new perfect for him.

    Funny things is when the doctor said I had a fatty liver, I didn't get emotional at all; I just said "what do I do now? Ok, done."
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-25-2013 at 06:22 AM.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Take for instance SLI "to love" HA; you try to distance yourself from an SLI and they will have a nasty bitter vulgar attack, why? because they want to love. Strange, yes.

    I have another story, so Carl Jung describes irrational types as being able to seize the subconscious motivations of others, or register the mere happenings, take the SEE in interaction with an LSE; what happens is that the SEE with their Se notices the subconscious motivations of LSE, which is their "to be perfect" HA; in doing this, the SEE will strive in this direction to show in action and bring in meeting or conjunction with the LSE's HA, by striving to be perfect in what they are and how they do things. Because Se can be a subconscious function, it may even do these things without the person's full knowledge of the reasons why they are doing them.

    The Ne HA, to be perfect, gets LSE and ESE to do things to be perfect in the eyes of others around them and strive to be the best in what they do.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-25-2013 at 04:16 PM.

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    Isn't the hidden agenda of the SLI "to love"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    ...subconscious motivations of LSE, which is their "to be perfect" HA...
    To be perfect in which sense? IMHO, Ganin's descriptions of the Hidden Agenda don't explain anything. If we were to put it in the style of Ganin, then LSE HA would be "to be creative/original". Haven't you yourself said so, when you discussed the type of Ashton Kutcher?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Isn't the hidden agenda of the SLI "to love"?
    Yes, it is. But it is only a part of the SLI's mobilizing function. It refers to the more or less misanthropic nature of ILIs and SLIs, in the sense that they feel most other people are not worthy to be loved.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    To be perfect in which sense? IMHO, Ganin's descriptions of the Hidden Agenda don't explain anything. If we were to put it in the style of Ganin, then LSE HA would be "to be creative/original". Haven't you yourself said so, when you discussed the type of Ashton Kutcher?
    The creativity and originality stems from being an extravert and sensory in general. Yes I did say what you're saying in that thread, however, it wasn't correct. To be perfect is the HA in both ESE and LSE; thus meaning that they are very much concerned about how they are viewed and as such they are likely to want to be perfect, of course this is a motivation; in no way do they stand up and say "I'm doing these things because of my idealized perfection about me" no one does that with any of their HA. LOL

    This is absolutely true when an LSE goes to choose a mate; "I don't like these things about her or That doesn't match with me." An idealized form of perfection.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-25-2013 at 04:26 PM.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Isn't the hidden agenda of the SLI "to love"?
    yes, I just changed it, thanks.

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    I think Lungs improved our understanding of this!
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    She built upon Expat's knowledge. Ganin's system is misleading, or at least hard to assimilate. Do ESEs really want to be creative? Sometimes, but Lungs has a better account of them, I believe. She is elaborating on an idea. I think she is right.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    The creativity and originality stems from being an extravert and sensory in general. Yes I did say what you're saying in that thread, however, it wasn't correct. To be perfect is the HA in both ESE and LSE; thus meaning that they are very much concerned about how they are viewed and as such they are likely to want to be perfect, of course this is a motivation; in no way do they stand up and say "I'm doing these things because of my idealized perfection about me" no one does that with any of their HA. LOL

    This is absolutely true when an LSE goes to choose a mate; "I don't like these things about her or That doesn't match with me." An idealized form of perfection.
    Wrong, the perfectionism in ESEs and LSEs (as well as other rational types), is the result of their ego block functions.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    One thing that I don't like with socionics is how explanations tend to separate the functions. Hidden Agenda in particular explains function pairs as isolated from each other. I thought it might be more constructive to explain how they relate to one another. I'd also like to know how you feel they relate to one another by your own words.

    Hidden Agenda (Mobilizing Function) - Motivation - Hidden Agenda and Creative don't neglect each other
    Ni - ESI/LSI - to understand
    Si - EII/LII - to enjoy
    Ne - LSE/ESE - to take advantage of opportunities
    Se - LIE/EIE - to experience things

    Fi - SLI/ILI - to create harmony
    Ti - SEI/IEI - to have social understanding
    Fe - ILE/SLE - to connect with others
    Te - IEE/SEE - to act of their own accord

    How duals provide (or produce) it for each other
    LIE and ESI
    LIE creatively provides understanding of experiences
    ESI creatively provides new experiences to understand

    LSE and EII
    EII creatively provides opportunities to enjoy
    LSE creatively provides enjoyment of opportunities

    SLI and IEE
    SLI creatively provides the ability to act of one's own accord based on a foundation for harmony
    IEE creatively provides a foundation for harmony that allows acting of one's own accord

    SEI and ILE
    ILE creatively provides a social understanding that allows for connecting with other people
    SEI creatively provides a connection with other people based on a social understanding of those people

    etc.

    Repression - Leading and Suggestive functions
    LIE/LSE and ESI/EII
    LIE/LSE is immersed in acting of their own accord to the point that they neglect harmony and will accept an ESI/EII to manage that for them
    ESI/EII is immersed in creating harmony to the point that they neglect acting of their own accord and will accept an LIE/LSE to manage that for them as well

    etc.

    So? Anyone think this is better? Any major problems with it? Have your own ideas that you think are just better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Wrong, the perfectionism in ESEs and LSEs (as well as other rational types), is the result of their ego block functions.
    Really? how do you come to that conclusion, by what observation or analysis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    no no no, that's all wrong. k, Here's my take.

    Ni is super smart and nerdy and introvertity and submissive like a vagina. They need an Se dick to get them to "open up". The vagina makes the dick feel good and the dick protects the vagina, so it all works out. Se is like a dick.

    Ti is dorky and serious and evil-hearted and thinks it's all a funny calculated game. Fe goes well with that by making everybody accept it and find it funny too. Fe makes the victims laugh at themselves.

    Te is like a lion that wants to eat everything and be king of the jungle. Fi wants everyone to be okay with it, so they make good companions. Partners of destruction and chaos.

    Ne just wants to do shit, especially if it annoys the shit out of people. Like going to walmart to play with toy swords and shields, only to have security escort them out for "loss prevention" of the merchandise. Si helps them calm the fuck down sometimes and relax, but enjoys annoying the shit out of people. So they are like little hedonist buddy fuckers.

    /socionics
    Everyone can stop thinking about socionics now.
    Damn, I think you just solved socionics. Finally, practical descriptions I can relate to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Really? how do you come to that conclusion, by what observation or analysis?
    Yes, by observation and analysis, which by the way involves a lot more than just Socionics insights. The perfectionism of LSEs and ESEs, although each one of them has their own specific version, comes natural to them.

    According to American psychologist Jeffrey E. Young, perfectionism is cognitive schema that can appear in healthy and unhealthy forms. The unhealthy forms are described as:

    UNRELENTING STANDARDS / HYPERCRITICALNESS

    The underlying belief that one must strive to meet very high internalized standards of behavior and performance, usually to avoid criticism. Typically results in feelings of pressure or difficulty slowing down; and in hypercriticalness toward oneself and others. Must involve significant impairment in: pleasure, relaxation, health, self-esteem, sense of accomplishment, or satisfying relationships.
    Unrelenting standards typically present as: (a) perfectionism, inordinate attention to detail, or an underestimate of how good one's own performance is relative to the norm; (b) rigid rules and “shoulds” in many areas of life, including unrealistically high moral, ethical, cultural, or religious precepts; or (c) preoccupation with time and efficiency, so that more can be accomplished.
    It is the bolded part ("usually to avoid criticism") that sets LSEs and ESEs apart from people who strive for perfectionism in more or less unhealthy ways, such as IEEs and SEEs, trying to come of as competent or knowledgeable people. When doing their type of perfectionism, LSEs and ESEs are not at all trying to avoid criticism. It's just the way they are.

    In a more general sense, the mobilizing function is about perfectionism regardless of type. That is because the mobilizing function acts as an approval and recognition seeking function. It all depends on your definition of 'perfectionism', which you haven't provided up to this moment. Until you do, your claim that the Hidden agenda of LSEs and ESEs is "to be perfect" is just Forer Effect bullshit.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    She built upon Expat's knowledge. Ganin's system is misleading, or at least hard to assimilate. Do ESEs really want to be creative? Sometimes, but Lungs has a better account of them, I believe. She is elaborating on an idea. I think she is right.
    I don't see how Lung's descriptions are based of Expat's. Expat's have been the best so far, no-one has come anywhere near that. And as to ESEs, they do not want to be creative literally, they only want to be perceived as such (which is the nature of the mobilizing function regardless of type), or at least as people who can appreciate and understand creativity, inventiveness and originality. It's being creative by proxy, so to speak. (i.e., of course, for those ESEs who put too much emphasis on their mobilizing function).

    The following video demonstrates Ne-mobilizing in an ESE amongst other information elements: the woman facilitates other people being creative at her coffee shop (remember Rick DeLong's type message on ESEs), this creativity is supposed to rub off on her, that's the trick! At the same time, she puts her older kids to work as 'slaves' at her coffee shop, which is the result of her ego functions:

    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-26-2013 at 12:30 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Isn't the hidden agenda of the SLI "to love"?
    Dis is why Hitler is EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Dis is why Hitler is EIE.
    Haven't you heard yet? He's not EIE, he's ILE!

    (don't forget to turn captions on)

    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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