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Thread: Aaron Swartz protesters take over government website

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    Default Aaron Swartz protesters take over government website

    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...bsites-install

    Creepy. If you try to go to the website right now, it's down. http://www.ussc.gov

    The hacker group Anonymous have released several encrypted files. They say that if changes in the system are not made, they will release the keys to those files. If those keys are released, apparently shit will go down.


    Here is the video the hacker group released - http://youtu.be/WaPni5O2YyI
    Last edited by fox; 01-31-2013 at 09:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

    Facing the possibility of a long prison sentence if convicted of charges that he illegally downloaded millions of academic journal articles, Swartz hanged himself in his New York apartment Friday. The death of one of the founders of news and entertainment website Reddit and a longtime activist for an open Internet has ignited outrage among many in the electronic community who view him as a martyr to government prosecution.
    Swartz spent the last two years fighting federal hacking charges. In July 2011, prosecutor Scott Garland working under U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz, a politician with her eye on the governor’s mansion, charged Swartz with four counts of felony misconduct – charges that were deemed outrageous by internet experts who understood the case, and wholly unnecessary by the parties Swartz was accused of wronging. Swartz repeatedly sought to reduce the charges to a level below felony status, but prosecutors pressed on, adding additional charges so that by September 2012 Swartz faced 13 felony counts and up to half a century in prison.
    Basically, he was given an unfair trial and pretty much sentenced to life in prison on charges that did not make sense (apparently he was downloading some articles that he wanted to make free to the public). They wanted to make an example of him, so they sentenced him unfairly. Because of this, he committed suicide. He would have rather died then spend a life in prison for no sensible reason.

    Now hackers everywhere are pissed, and making attacks on the government. They are threatening to release classified information that has the potential to cause an outrage in the public.
    Last edited by fox; 01-31-2013 at 09:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireyed View Post
    They are threatening to release classified information that has the potential to cause an outrage in the public.
    And then another singing or sports competition will be broadcast and everyone will forget. Most people probably don't even remember what happened last week, and whatever issues pop up they're unlikely to agitate until they're caused to miss a few meals.

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    January 18, 2013

    The Honorable Eric Holder
    Attorney General
    United States Department of Justice
    950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
    Washington, DC 20530
    Dear Attorney General Holder:

    Like many Americans, I was saddened to learn last week of the death of Aaron Swartz. Mr. Swartz was, among other things, a brilliant technologist and a committed activist for the causes in which he believed – including, notably, the freedom of information. His death, at the young age of twenty-six, was tragic.

    As you are doubtless aware, Mr. Swartz was facing an aggressive prosecution by the Department of Justice when he took his own life. The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Massachusetts accused him of breaking into the computer networks of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and downloading without authorization thousands of academic articles from a subscription service. While the subscription service did not support a prosecution, in July 2011 the U.S. Attorney’s office indicted him on four counts of fraud and computer crimes, charges that reportedly could have resulted in up to 35 years imprisonment and a $1 million dollar fine. This past September, the U.S. Attorney’s office filed a superseding indictment charging Mr. Swartz with thirteen felony counts and the prospect of even longer imprisonment and greater fines.

    Mr. Swartz’s case raises important questions about prosecutorial conduct:

    First, on what basis did the U.S. Attorney for the District of Massachusetts conclude that her office’s conduct was “appropriate?” Did that office, or any office within the Department, conduct a review? If so, please identify that review and supply its contents.

    Second, was the prosecution of Mr. Swartz in any way retaliation for his exercise of his rights as a citizen under the Freedom of Information Act ? If so, I recommend that you refer the matter immediately to the Inspector General.

    Third, what role, if any, did the Department’s prior investigations of Mr. Swartz play in the decision of with which crimes to charge him? Please explain the basis for your answer.

    Fourth, why did the U.S. Attorney’s office file the superseding indictment?

    Fifth, when the U.S. Attorney’s office drafted the indictment and the superseding indictment, what consideration was given to whether the counts charged and the associated penalties were proportional to Mr. Swartz’s alleged conduct and its impact upon victims?

    Sixth, was it the intention of the U.S. Attorney and/or her subordinates to “make an example” of Mr. Swartz? Please explain.

    Finally, the U.S. Attorney has blamed the “severe punishments authorized by Congress” for the apparent harshness of the charges Mr. Swartz faced. Does the Department of Justice give U.S. Attorneys discretion to charge defendants (or not charge them) with crimes consistent with their view of the gravity of the wrongdoing in a specific case?

    I appreciate your prompt and thorough answers to these questions.

    Sincerely,

    JOHN CORNYN

    United States Senator
    >> Source (for some reason link does not always work...)

    https://www.facebook.com/Sen.JohnCornyn



    He doesn't expect any real response, does he?

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Schwartz was an idiot for committing suicide.

    He probably had multiple plea bargains presented before him before he committed suicide.

    It's fairly standard to charge whatever is allowed in order to get a defendant to plea instead of wasting millions of dollars of money in trial. He probably could have plead to something and gotten less then 5 years, most of it suspended. I think the fact that he was depressive and had probably mental issues contributed greatly to his suicide as well. A lot of people get charged heavily and don't kill themselves.

    The American trial system is extremely expensive vs say, China's and not that expedient which results in a lot of maneuvering to avoid a trial.

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    ^ Yeah, I kind of wondered about that. The justice system is kind of screwed up, but I really doubt he would have spent all that much time in prison. But supposedly they were also trying to make an example out of him to deter other people. So maybe it was the relative uncertainty of punishment in combination with knowing prison might be extra dehumanizing and scary for someone like him, coupled with the fact that he was already depressed, that was just too much for him. I don't really blame him, if that's more or less what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Schwartz was an idiot for committing suicide.
    And you're an idiot, not to mention a detached, arrogant coward, for making assumptions about someone who went so far as to kill himself, and why. It usually takes more than threats of jail time to push someone that far, which is why I am personally drawn to suspect foul play.

    He probably had multiple plea bargains presented before him before he committed suicide.
    Yes obviously.

    It's fairly standard to charge whatever is allowed in order to get a defendant to plea instead of wasting millions of dollars of money in trial. He probably could have plead to something and gotten less then 5 years, most of it suspended. I think the fact that he was depressive and had probably mental issues contributed greatly to his suicide as well. A lot of people get charged heavily and don't kill themselves.
    I think you might not be adequately reading into the phrase "prosecutorial overreach," which, hailing as you do from a country rife with corruption, I am a little surprised at.

    The American trial system is extremely expensive vs say, China's and not that expedient which results in a lot of maneuvering to avoid a trial.
    ...probably including threats, extortion, blackmail, etc, the extent of which we can't yet know. I doubt this is as simple as any of us could easily make it out to be, especially when it comes to disparaging someone who was in so much pain that he took his own life.

    This kind of arrogant bullshit is why I can't fucking stand you sometimes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    As much as I stand in full support of any animosity toward hkkmr under any circumstances whatsoever, I second that Swartz was a dummy for gakking himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    As much as I stand in full support of any animosity toward hkkmr under any circumstances whatsoever, I second that Swartz was a dummy for gakking himself.
    Anyone killing themselves is "stupid" for reasons that are beyond obvious and hardly require pointing out or harping upon. What's less obvious is why he actually did it, for which reason I reserve my own judgment, and wish others would do the same out of respect for a person who took great personal risks, and paid the ultimate price, to stand up for liberty and equality.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Is it?

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    Instead of performing the sort of constructive activism and critique Swartz was known for while still breathing, as a post-person he's likelier to inspire reprisals from other e-warriors, which in turn will lead to the gubmint giving more attention to covering its ass and punishing those who dare to look up its skirt. Unless you can make a decent case for his assassination by pseudo-suicide, that's pretty silly to claim this an hero killed himself as a sacrifice for the public weal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And you're an idiot, not to mention a detached, arrogant coward, for making assumptions about someone who went so far as to kill himself, and why. It usually takes more than threats of jail time to push someone that far, which is why I am personally drawn to suspect foul play.

    Yes obviously.

    I think you might not be adequately reading into the phrase "prosecutorial overreach," which, hailing as you do from a country rife with corruption, I am a little surprised at.

    ...probably including threats, extortion, blackmail, etc, the extent of which we can't yet know. I doubt this is as simple as any of us could easily make it out to be, especially when it comes to disparaging someone who was in so much pain that he took his own life.

    This kind of arrogant bullshit is why I can't fucking stand you sometimes.
    You talk big but when it comes time to prove it you're nothing but a rat, a snitch. This guy is no Mandela, or even Kevin Mitnick or even Bradley Manning(who was outed by a little rat).

    I didn't learn about American justice in China, I learned that in the ghettos of America where it's cheap and many immigrants live and many kids don't have fathers because they're dead or in jail. There's a lot of men who have did their time and know a little about doing time. If you're not willing to do time, to face whatever comes your way when you buck the system. It doesn't work. I don't really care how much pain he was being put under, because well that's sort of comes with the territory.

    I have no problem disparaging Schwartz because I don't respect him for what he did, for taking a cowards way out. I even agree with him on what he was trying to do. I don't respect people that jump off of buildings because they lost all their money either.
    It's not that suicide is wrong, because there are many reasons which I think is reasonable for suicide. Anyways, if you're looking to donate to a fund Bradley Manning is still being treated like shit for doing something which IMO is far more important.

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    Did Anonymous topple the government yet? I don't see anything about it in the news, though that may well be the result of a coverup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Instead of performing the sort of constructive activism and critique Swartz was known for while still breathing, as a post-person he's likelier to inspire reprisals from other e-warriors, which in turn will lead to the gubmint giving more attention to covering its ass and punishing those who dare to look up its skirt. Unless you can make a decent case for his assassination by pseudo-suicide, that's pretty silly to claim this an hero killed himself as a sacrifice for the public weal.
    I'm not saying he killed himself for the public good. I'm saying his death was a direct result of actions that had progressive intentions. It doesn't matter why he pulled the trigger; what matters is that he was doing something that was good, and now he's dead.

    I'm not saying he did a good thing by killing himself. I'm saying his existence was positive, and therefore its disrespectful and tasteless to insult him post-mortem.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    You talk big but when it comes time to prove it you're nothing but a rat, a snitch. This guy is no Mandela, or even Kevin Mitnick or even Bradley Manning(who was outed by a little rat).
    Number one, where do you get the gall to call me a snitch and a rat? Number two, why is it relevant? This isn't about me, or snitching, in any way. I never said he's a Mandela or any of those people, and you're twisting this around very sloppily in your favor. The tactics you attempt are attempted poorly, and you're also wrong and an asshole to boot. Go sit down.

    I didn't learn about American justice in China, I learned that in the ghettos of America where it's cheap and many immigrants live and many kids don't have fathers because they're dead or in jail. There's a lot of men who have did their time and know a little about doing time. If you're not willing to do time, to face whatever comes your way when you buck the system. It doesn't work. I don't really care how much pain he was being put under, because well that's sort of comes with the territory.
    You don't care how much pain he was being put under? It doesn't matter in how we judge him for killing himself? You call him stupid, but I bet you would fold under half the pressure. In fact, I'd kill to switch your place with his, not to spite you, but because you'd either live up to your own ridiculous hype, and the movement for internet freedom would be further along, or we'd be rid of a useless, disrespectful piece of shit.

    What matters is that he was willing to fight, that he took the risk on his own shoulders, and he deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

    I have no problem disparaging Schwartz because I don't respect him for what he did, for taking a cowards way out. I even agree with him on what he was trying to do. I don't respect people that jump off of buildings because they lost all their money either.
    Are you kidding? That's not even close to being a proper comparison; the motives and context are completely different. How fucking retarded are you?

    And what does it have to do with being a coward? Sure, he would have done more good alive. But you've never been in his shoes, YOU are the coward for judging him without knowing what he went through. You are pathetic, and have no respect. What have YOU done? If you weren't thousands of miles away I would spit in your face.

    It's not that suicide is wrong, because there are many reasons which I think is reasonable for suicide.
    Right, and a life of depression compounded by pressure from the most powerful organizations in the world, probably including threats to his and his family's well-being, and possibly even their lives, aren't reasonable cause to crack? Would you know?

    You make my stomach turn.

    Anyways, if you're looking to donate to a fund Bradley Manning is still being treated like shit for doing something which IMO is far more important.

    Yeah, thanks.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm not saying he killed himself for the public good. I'm saying his death was a direct result of actions that had progressive intentions. It doesn't matter why he pulled the trigger; what matters is that he was doing something that was good, and now he's dead.

    I'm not saying he did a good thing by killing himself. I'm saying his existence was positive, and therefore its disrespectful and tasteless to insult him post-mortem.
    It's disrespectful to himself and whoever he thought his actions served to have committed suicide. What good is he now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Did Anonymous topple the government yet? I don't see anything about it in the news, though that may well be the result of a coverup.
    Even the biggest fire can start with a tiny spark. History will be the judge.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    It's disrespectful to himself and whoever he thought his actions served to have committed suicide. What good is he now?
    Yeah but he did SOMETHING, which is way more than most people.

    He is good because he gave the issue press. Most people's lives aren't worth a single news article; his is getting thousands. Nobody can know what that will wind up meaning, but it's more than if he had done nothing and not killed himself.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    He downloaded articles that he had access to anyway because he was affiliated with MIT. They cut off his access when they realized that he downloaded an extremely large number of articles (because they figured correctly that he wanted to distribute them for free) and he secretly set up a computer in a computer-wiring closet to continue to download the articles from JSTOR. I have access to JSTOR (as do pretty much all college students and staff in North America) and I don't think there is a cap to the number of articles we have access to. He didn't want to make a profit, he just thought it is ridiculous that JSTOR charges an insane amount of access fees while authors don't get anything (which actually is common practice in academic publishing, also goes for books). He only wanted to make the articles freely available. I have loads of respect for this guy.

    The charges were insane and it's not surprising that someone who might not be all that stable reacts this way to overzealous and out of line prosecutors. Moreover, JSTOR did not even want to pursue this case!
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Well, when someone commits suicide it's not easy for those who are left behind and the effects are permanent and some people never manage to get over it. It always lingers and it shatters families. Those who are left behind may be unsure of what to tell people for fear that they will judge you or the person who chose to leave since suicide has such a stigma and dishonor/disgrace attached to it. ...and since it's a topic people do not want to be confronted with, prolly because they are frightened 'cos they are taken to a place they don't know and are terrified of saying something that is causing you distress, those who are left behind are often left alone with an ominous silence.

    Was he an idiot for committing suicide or stupid or a coward? I do not know (and prolly nobody else here knows) what it exactly was like to be in his situation and what it exactly felt like for Aaron Swartz. Only he knows!

    One can only speculate and with suicide there are more questions than answers. Maaaaaybe it was because an attempt to reach a deal the Wednesday before he killed himself fell apart and he realized he would have to face an expensive trial and he would have to ask for money (something that was allegedly a big concern) in addition to the mere prospect of having to do time (since he didn't want to go to jail at all and prosecution insisted on prison time) in addition he couldn't believe and was frightened that the prosecution took this incredibly hard line against him (incl.that two of his friends had recently been subpoenaed in the case) and in addition that MIT wasn't going to stand up for him which allegedly upset him and and and... Plenty of stressors. Even though he suffered bouts of depression for years I, personally, am not fond of playing the metally-ill/depression-card - like 'normal' people don't do that. Not everyone who commits suicide has depression and allegedly he was fine until the week before he did it ... and we do not know!

    The worst question you can beat yourself up with is 'why'. And even if you think you 'know' the circumstances that finally led to it and also came to the conclusion that you'll never truly know why because the only person who knows all the pieces incl. all his feelings and thoughts chose to leave and can't be asked anymore, nonetheless, the 'why' often continues to repetitively haunt those left behind.

    However, the last thing I'd do is judging or disparaging or talking bad of someone who decided to take his own life since I have no idea what it was that made suicide seem the only choice for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah but he did SOMETHING, which is way more than most people.

    He is good because he gave the issue press. Most people's lives aren't worth a single news article; his is getting thousands. Nobody can know what that will wind up meaning, but it's more than if he had done nothing and not killed himself.
    Well I'm sure that's a great comfort to everyone at 4chan, boing-boing, and reddit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Well I'm sure that's a great comfort to everyone at 4chan, boing-boing, and reddit.
    Yeah and I'm sure you're done being a dick for no reason.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    there are many reasons which I think is reasonable for suicide.
    Out of curiosity, under what circumstances do you think suicide is reasonable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    He probably had multiple plea bargains presented before him before he committed suicide.
    ... which, if accepted, would have branded him a convicted felon. Not exactly a hopeful prospect. There was absolutely no reason for this to have gone any further after JSTOR asked the case to be dropped. The prosecutor basically held a potential sentence of 35 years over his head, for making academic articles available freely. The bleak absurdity of the situation in combination with his depression would have probably given him enough stress for something to break. Suicide is rarely a head decision. It's a gut decision. What I can say is, I wish the litigation had ended with JSTOR and I really wish he hadn't killed himself. Who knows what else he might have been able to create? He'd already done in 26 years more than I can hope to do in twice that time. Heck, he did more by the age of 14, and was more socially conscientious by the time he was 22 than I am at 25, lol.

    Every day, I come across more reasons to be grateful I decided against law school. Carmen Ortiz represents a particularly abhorent breed of power-hungry prosecutor on whose lot there seem to be no checks. The statement she had the gall to release after Swartz' death was kind of gross.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Number one, where do you get the gall to call me a snitch and a rat? Number two, why is it relevant? This isn't about me, or snitching, in any way. I never said he's a Mandela or any of those people, and you're twisting this around very sloppily in your favor. The tactics you attempt are attempted poorly, and you're also wrong and an asshole to boot. Go sit down.

    You don't care how much pain he was being put under? It doesn't matter in how we judge him for killing himself? You call him stupid, but I bet you would fold under half the pressure. In fact, I'd kill to switch your place with his, not to spite you, but because you'd either live up to your own ridiculous hype, and the movement for internet freedom would be further along, or we'd be rid of a useless, disrespectful piece of shit.
    I think he would have better served his cause should he stayed alive and just did a few years for his cause. That's why he's stupid. I don't really know what would happen if I face his situation, I don't consider myself a particularly strong person but in his situation I certainly wouldn't kill myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    What matters is that he was willing to fight, that he took the risk on his own shoulders, and he deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

    Are you kidding? That's not even close to being a proper comparison; the motives and context are completely different. How fucking retarded are you?
    I agree with him for his work, but I don't particularly respect him for his suicide. He if was willing to "take a risk" for is fight, he would have done the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And what does it have to do with being a coward? Sure, he would have done more good alive. But you've never been in his shoes, YOU are the coward for judging him without knowing what he went through. You are pathetic, and have no respect. What have YOU done? If you weren't thousands of miles away I would spit in your face.

    Right, and a life of depression compounded by pressure from the most powerful organizations in the world, probably including threats to his and his family's well-being, and possibly even their lives, aren't reasonable cause to crack? Would you know?

    You make my stomach turn.

    Yeah, thanks.
    You make a lot of weird conjecture about what kind of pressure he's been under. I know a few people undergoing pressure from the Feds to the point where he can no longer have relationships with his old friends for the foreseeable future. It can surely suck, but nobody's committed suicide yet. Although I don't agree that he committed suicide, the Feds are certainly a organization that can make your life very difficult.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    ... which, if accepted, would have branded him a convicted felon. Not exactly a hopeful prospect. There was absolutely no reason for this to have gone any further after JSTOR asked the case to be dropped. The prosecutor basically held a potential sentence of 35 years over his head, for making academic articles available freely. The bleak absurdity of the situation in combination with his depression would have probably given him enough stress for something to break. Suicide is rarely a head decision. It's a gut decision. What I can say is, I wish the litigation had ended with JSTOR and I really wish he hadn't killed himself. Who knows what else he might have been able to create? He'd already done in 26 years more than I can hope to do in twice that time. Heck, he did more by the age of 14, and was more socially conscientious by the time he was 22 than I am at 25, lol.

    Every day, I come across more reasons to be grateful I decided against law school. Carmen Ortiz represents a particularly abhorent breed of power-hungry prosecutor on whose lot there seem to be no checks. The statement she had the gall to release after Swartz' death was kind of gross.
    I think it's sad he committed suicide, but it doesn't make me think he's a better person because he took that road. Carmen Ortiz is a power hungry prosecutor who's main line of business was doing this same sort of stuff against organized crime and far more real criminals. IMO, she probably wasn't right kind of individual to take on this case. However, that effectiveness at working against organized crime was probably a failing in dealing with Aaron Swartz. She has another case going on with criminal seizure of a hotel which she also was beaten on. I don't think her experience and background makes her a good individual to handle these sort of cases. I think it's sad that he was prosecuted at all, but it's not really about that on my opinion of him.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    Out of curiosity, under what circumstances do you think suicide is reasonable?
    Painful terminal illness, incest and abuse at the hands of family members, a number of things that I've seen cause suicide. Death by suicide at a old age and health issues like Hunter S. Thompson.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think he would have better served his cause should he stayed alive and just did a few years for his cause. That's why he's stupid. I don't really know what would happen if I face his situation, I don't consider myself a particularly strong person but in his situation I certainly wouldn't kill myself.
    We'll never know that though, will we?

    Fuck what he could have done; look at what he DID do. He brought more attention and popular exposure to an issue that is defining our generation, and will define out future as a world. That's enough reason to lay off the guy for growing weary of his mortal coil, isn't it?

    I agree with him for his work, but I don't particularly respect him for his suicide. He if was willing to "take a risk" for is fight, he would have done the time.
    Maybe it wasn't about doing the time. You have no idea what was going on behind the articles.

    That's my real point here: you have no basis for judging a person who did our world a service, whether he fell short of your expectations or not.


    You make a lot of weird conjecture about what kind of pressure he's been under. I know a few people undergoing pressure from the Feds to the point where he can no longer have relationships with his old friends for the foreseeable future. It can surely suck, but nobody's committed suicide yet. Although I don't agree that he committed suicide, the Feds are certainly a organization that can make your life very difficult.
    Yeah, and imagine how much worse it would be if your friend was in a case that was plastered on every blog and newspaper, and held the tension of some of the hottest controversial topics of our time, not to mention a very palpable threat to the system. And add lifelong major depression to that.

    Tell me you still blame him enough to casually taunt him post mortem.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think it's sad he committed suicide, but it doesn't make me think he's a better person because he took that road.
    I don't think anyone is calling him a martyr. You are just projecting exaggerations of our stances to reinforce your own views. Just admit you were being carelessly judgmental and get on with your life.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Painful terminal illness, incest and abuse at the hands of family members, a number of things that I've seen cause suicide. Death by suicide at a old age and health issues like Hunter S. Thompson.
    Life's circumstances do not dictate how people experience them. Some people can survive such traumas and live happily, when others would be broken. Swartz's presumed lack of determination or will power in no way lessens his contributions.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Schwartz was an idiot for committing suicide.

    He probably had multiple plea bargains presented before him before he committed suicide.

    It's fairly standard to charge whatever is allowed in order to get a defendant to plea instead of wasting millions of dollars of money in trial. He probably could have plead to something and gotten less then 5 years, most of it suspended. I think the fact that he was depressive and had probably mental issues contributed greatly to his suicide as well. A lot of people get charged heavily and don't kill themselves.

    The American trial system is extremely expensive vs say, China's and not that expedient which results in a lot of maneuvering to avoid a trial.
    Expenses aren't as important when the whole trial is for show.
    We don't even really know why he killed himself. I don't look well on people committing suicide either but it's his personal right to commit suicide. There are many reasons to commit suicide.. bipolar disorder, fucked up past, politics. So in light of the mans other good qualities I think it is forgivable.

    What a person does in their own lives, in their own home is their right. What they do in society is what matters to everyone else. He should be remembered well.

    It's like global politics is becoming everyone trolling eachother.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-03-2013 at 03:30 AM.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsowner View Post
    Expenses aren't as important when the whole trial is for show.
    We don't even really know why he killed himself. I don't look well on people committing suicide either but it's his personal right to commit suicide. There are many reasons to commit suicide.. bipolar disorder, fucked up past, politics. So in light of the mans other good qualities I think it is forgivable.

    What a person does in their own lives, in their own home is their right. What they do in society is what matters to everyone else. He should be remembered well.


    It's like global politics is becoming everyone trolling eachother.
    Thisssssssssssssssss
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Like Bradley Manning, he's relevant mostly due the context. Things are changing and they are the iconical examples of the new times.
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