Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: ISxjs

  1. #1
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ISxjs

    What are the most notable differences between ISFjs and ISTjs? Does anyone have any real life examples to share?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  2. #2
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I started a thread on that in Gamma, but perhaps my text was too long.

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4841
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I liked Expat's descriptions. When we read descriptions of types or even the descritptins of functions in the tests, we need to realize that they not need to be 100% because there is not such thing as 100% because people will always differ.

    Continue later.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

  4. #4
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    thank you, that was very helpful
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  5. #5
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks, but discojoe had a point - - it does make them seem too close-minded.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  6. #6
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It is one thing to describe the types and another thing to get to see those differences. No matter how perfect the description is everyone has to go through practice stage because two or...5 people of the same type will differ from each ohter and possibley remind some other types.

    My expereinces of ISTJs started with a very nice feeling of reserved but very friendly people, lots of smiling and nice comments. When you start to come closer -( something ISFJs can do to anybody because they do not bother too much what reaction will be) - then you will be surpised about ISTJ's reaction. They are very closed minded and do not want to open it to reasoning because it is all sooooo unscientific. How can feelings stand against the theory or rules or logic? At my work a Doctor psychologist - very nice young lady - did not want to hear anything about unproved knowldege. I think they -ISTJs -can be too hard and too boring.
    At the end of the day they are from Beta - protecting the system and authority. But in the same time she is actually a nice person but her attitude drives me mad.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  7. #7
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What would be interesting to consider at one point how Superego types differ from each other. I am fine with INFJs but probably too similar to be happy together. I am fine with INTJ but I do not know if I could survive with ISTJ - seem to be too different.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,969
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I thought Expat's thread on ISxj was excellent and I'd love to see more descriptions in exactly that style.

    Personally, at least in work-related situations, I see the difference as follows:

    ISTj: Wants you to be finished early and have everything neat and tidy, with a minimum of any problems or issues...or you're fired.

    ISFj: Wants you to be finished early and have everything neat and tidy, with a minimum of any problems or issues...and is nice about asking you to be that way.

  9. #9
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Why not to ask Expat to continue to consider other two types? Maybe from Superego block: INFJ and INTJ?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  10. #10
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i met an ISFj guy yesterday. my friend asked me shortly after what i thought his type was. my first guess was ESFp ethical subtype, but ISFj makes more sense. my friend always thought he was ISTj (i think this is pretty common.) he was upset about having broken up with his girlfriend of 4 years (reason being that she didn't seem to know what she wanted, not really a stable person-- this was frustrating to him.)

    i think ISFjs are a lot more likely to complain when something is bothering them than maybe ISTjs. again, they don't seem to feel the need to be overly friendly and smiley when they meet a stranger like ISTjs do. ISTjs will give you a "warmer welcome" on first meeting, i think. i can't stress the whole "appears to be a thinker" thing here enough.

    we had all planned on going to this bar and when we got there, it was really noisy and crowded. he decided against staying there, so we went to another bar (less noisy/crowded!)

    my friend told the ISFj guy of this anecdote where i pretty much (very non-intentionally) insulted a delta NF guy. it was really embarrassing for me (the NF guy got really pouty with me for a little while, even though it was an accident) but the ISFj interpreted it as a really funny slick insult.

    another small thing i noticed (not sure how relevant this is) -- i was telling him about how my chinese students were so surprised that there were so many openly homosexual people in atlanta. a lot of people react to this kind of like, "oh my god! that's hilarious!" he countered that with statistical information that atlanta has one of the highest homosexual populations in the united states, second only to san fransisco. then he told me i should just tell my student (who seemed worried about accidentally walking into a gay bar) that he should just avoid the bars with rainbow flags/rainbow decor.

    i'm trying my best not to make him sound close-minded. he was definitely conservative in his views etc, but nice, not in an overly-feelery sort of way at all, nor in an ISTj "hey i just met a new person woo hoo!" way. all in all, friendly in a very understated, non-expressive way (not gushy or noisy at all,) but still feelery.


    all that said, i still find it a little weird that they are the ENTj's dual.
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  11. #11
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    all that said, i still find it a little weird that they are the ENTj's dual.
    Why?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  12. #12
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    my friend told the ISFj guy of this anecdote where i pretty much (very non-intentionally) insulted a delta NF guy. it was really embarrassing for me (the NF guy got really pouty with me for a little while, even though it was an accident) but the ISFj interpreted it as a really funny slick insult.
    lol that's perfect

    he countered that with statistical information that atlanta has one of the highest homosexual populations in the united states, second only to san fransisco.
    excellent example of ISFj behavior

    all in all, friendly in a very understated, non-expressive way (not gushy or noisy at all)
    sounds hot

    all that said, i still find it a little weird that they are the ENTj's dual.
    because they're so dissimilar?

    imo, ENTjs and ISFjs make a really great team. ENTjs have huge visions of future accomplishments, but could use a little help in staying on top of day to day tasks like balancing the checkbook (yes, they're quite capable... that doesn't mean they're going to do it regularly) and keeping up with chores and whatnot. ISFjs are good at prioritizing and keeping track of any necessary tasks. The ISFj may be rather pessimistic at times, but it's necessary in order to balance out the ENTjs extreme optimism. ISFjs think of things that the ENTj may otherwise overlook, and remind him of those things. ISFjs have a "get 'er done" attitude.

    She voices her skepticisms about projects or people that the ENTj is involved with. It can be easy for the ENTj to find himself in a situation where he's being taken advantage of (people take advantage of the Fe role I think), but the ISFj will put her foot down. "No, that's ridiculous. He can't expect that of you. Tell him you're not going to do it." ISFjs are also good at putting their foot down when it comes to the ENTj getting rest when he's ill.

    Although the ENTj may like to believe that he's a moral person, sometimes he's unsure about whether or not someting is morally wrong (it's difficult for him to draw the line between what is right or fair and what is not okay). He can rest assured that the ISFj will voice any moral concerns on the matter. It gives the ENTj a feeling of security as he moves forward towards his goals. I think a lot of ENTjs also tend to feel a little insecure about whether or not they're doing everything they should be doing for their children. They might, for example, go on a lot of business trips or work hours that are not conducive to family life, and then they try to make up for it by trying to be affectionate and warm when they are with their kids (Fe role). ISFjs are good at understanding where family activities and concerns should be on the priority scale, and because he can follow her lead with this, the ENTj feels a security that his family is healthy and well and doesn't need to worry that he's not placing the proper amount of importance on his family and balancing his work life with his home life.

    *sighs*

    I think I've succeeded in listing a few reasons that ISFjs are perfect for ENTjs... what does the ISFj get out of the deal?

    Also, feel free to correct any of the things I wrote... obviously, not ALL ENTj/ISFj couples will interact in the same manner as the others.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  13. #13
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It was a nice description/interpretation from Joy.
    I personally can not judge the type just on what is said simply because i only rely on my subjective experience and it does not happen always straght away. I need lots of facts if I try to decide on type by means like different perceptions. You use other skills and clues and that's fine.

    I have read recently the descriptions of intertype relationship and thought that they are in some way too "ideal" and because of that limited and not really reliable or reliable but only applicable to a particular situation. For example, working relationship, relatives, friends, different age/cutlure/interests...etc. So many factors impact on the outcome to a degree that I can not accept those relationship the way they are suggested. I don't want to say that there is no worth in them either but would be very careful to rely on them more than some people rely on the astrological compatibility. And if I will consider my previous relationships - I always felt good with soft, other -directed and intelligent people.

    When I tried to accept the person with his weaknesses like being selfish, not inelligent and not sensistive enough to the perspecitve of others - it never worked for me. We need partners like we are.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  14. #14
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    wise words
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  15. #15
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is it an ISxj thing to HATE games of chance?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  16. #16
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,702
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Is it an ISxj thing to HATE games of chance?
    I despise games of chance and I don't believe it's exclusive to any type.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  17. #17
    Kristiina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Estonia, Tartu
    Posts
    4,021
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I dislike games of chance, because I don't have any influence on the outcome. And where's the fun in that.

    If you lose, it was a game of chance anyway.
    If you win, no need to cheer too much... Not like it was an accomplishment.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  18. #18
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,702
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I dislike games of chance, because I don't have any influence on the outcome. And where's the fun in that.

    If you lose, it was a game of chance anyway.
    If you win, no need to cheer too much... Not like it was an accomplishment.
    My thoughts as well and I feel the same way about spectator sports.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  19. #19
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    when I say "games of chance", that includes games like poker... any game that includes any sort of uncontrolled outcomes, regardless of how much skill is needed in order to win
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  20. #20
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,702
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    when I say "games of chance", that includes games like poker... any game that includes any sort of uncontrolled outcomes, regardless of how much skill is needed in order to win
    Exactly, games of chance is found everywhere in some form. I despise most games that are heavily reliant with chance, and I don't see what's the big deal with poker.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  21. #21
    Olga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,596
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It can be related to weak intuition. The lessons of life teach me that no matter what I do sometimes things just go wrong. And this is scary because you try to forsee it and you can't. I call it mindgames. I always ask myself: how did it happen?

    That kills your wish to play the games with destiny or "time". You rather learn to adapt to it and find a deeper sense of what has happened and why. That is why when I start to explain this bigger sense to people around me they think that I am simply naive.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •