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Thread: How to get along with ILEs-ENTps

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    Default How to get along with ILEs-ENTps

    This is a compilation of several posts taken and translated from Russian socionics forums, that were written by several ENTp and ISFp posters on topic of how to relate to ILEs and some of the relationship nuances with SEIs (like breaks demark different posters).


    ++added: see also Duality observations


    "1. The way to the heart of ILE is through love, care, affection, as well as his or her stomach. I hope it is not necessary to explain this in detail?
    And if you can choose for him/her the most impressive and comfortable set of clothing, that would make all his friends and associates compliment on how well it suits him or her, then you are simply a sorceress or wizard from a fairy tale.

    2. Good mood and excellent state of health are key to Don's (ILE's) success. If you are looking for an incentive, don’t forget about these two aspects.

    3. When Don is talking about his plans and prospects, if you don't agree with what he is telling you, please provide logical arguments and hard facts and not just your personal opinions.

    4. When you explain something to him, please, listen to his replies as well. If he says "understood" then you can proceed to the next step. He has indeed understood what you were telling him! Further explanations are boring and a waste of time.

    5. Idle dreams are not ILE's cup of tea. Many of ILE's ideas indeed have a real foundation. He can calculate all the "pros" and "cons" within seconds, as well as all the "why's" and "how's."
    It is a different issues that to work on implementing his idea is usually a project for someone else.

    6. It is not true that the Dons are impractical. They often see the benefits of any undertaking, or, in worst cases, at least a lesson for the future. By the way, what do you mean by practical? To repair water faucets? Of course, may be on weekends, because right now I have no time, so I’m going to find a repairman and let him handle it.

    7. Planning – a very useful thing ... with one exception. Plans are made for the current situation. If things change, the old plan makes no sense. There arises a need for a new plan and, characteristically, it will be made on the fly.

    8. If you want to introduce him to someone, don’t try to force him to express his relation towards this person (for example, "Why were you so unfriendly when saying goodbye to Peter/Greg/Lena?", "Don’t get too close with him/her", etc.). The results are often unpredictable, you don’t even want to consider them.

    9. Yes mean yes - no means no. Even if the "yes" and "thank you" are uttered with a sour look, it means everything is ok. Though you might have some doubts and suspicions. Anyway, if you’re in a bad mood, let's talk again at another time.

    10. If Don is suddenly caught up by an interest to attend a new seminar, a workshop, or buy a book or CD, then discouraging him is useless. Moreover, this is going to be perceived as an assault on his personal freedom. After all, he does not give you orders on how to spend your own money and time. In such situations, retaliation comes immediately and in the most blatant manner.

    11. It is not true that Don is jealous! He simply feels himself in an idiotic position and does not know how to behave when you are flirting with persons of the opposite sex. This is a terrible state for him, I can tell you! How can this be amended? First, do not flirt in his presence; in his absence – as much as you wish. Second, always let Don understand that your relationships with others are not meaningful and hold no prospects for the future. This will be enough."

    ------------------------------------------------

    "If you are unhappy with Don's behavior in a given situation, tell him right away what exactly you didn’t like and how he can fix it. Don’t hope that he is going to guess where and when he was wrong, and most importantly, why it was the wrong thing to say or do. Better provide him with an explanation. But if Don reacts to your words with a strange emotional reaction, then it's better to leave him alone for now and forget about the topic for a while. You'll see that after some time Don will understand that you were right and accept your advice.

    Don can be made to do the housework. First you should divide and distribute the work, and then let him know that his part of the work is very important to you and you will be most very grateful for it. If he hasn't done it yet, just remind him – it is possible that he had forgotten.

    If you have decided to exploit your Don - know your measure. He himself is very busy, and if you give him too many tasks, at some point he might explode and do something that you will later come to regret. This does not mean that he doesn't want to help you - he will be happy to help if he can, but this should not be abused.

    Never blackmail Don with breaking up your relations (if you really don’t wish to part with him.) Most likely he'll think that you no longer want to be with him and will part with you himself (though after a while he may reconsider). If you have any problems in your relationship, hint at how they can be solved, for Don himself often doesn't know what he should do.

    If you have decided to part with Don, it is better to put all the dots over the "i’s" (that is, if you don’t want him to have any feelings for you long after). Explain to him why you will never be able to be together. Start seeing someone else. Introduce him to another person. In any case, don’t show him that any relations are possible between you (if this is really true). Dons may harbor feelings of love for their former object of affection for years."

    ------------------------------------------------

    "If during a phone call, you feel that Don isn't listening to you, then the opposite is true: you have managed to tell him something about which he had no idea. At this moment he is considering this information, and on its basis he is generating a million new ideas, a new outlook and a new concept of the structure of the world. Go ahead and continue talking, you are not interfering with him.

    Any attempts to push Don into a rigid schedule from 9.00 to 17.00 will always fail. Either he will still come when it is convenient for him, or he will resign. In cases of Dons being subjected to a forced schedule, either his psyche will give out, or yours will give out - so be careful."

    ------------------------------------------------

    "Dons don't undertake just any chore. Introverted sensing is a suggestive function for them, so if information received on this function was positive, then Don feels pleasure and gratitude, and if negative – then tension and frustration. Therefore, it is important to treat this function with care. On occasion, ILEs (and IEEs) love to clean and order their living space, iron their clothing, prepare a appealing dinner (but only sometimes!). And they feel enjoyment from this. But if something goes wrong, it can make them terribly angry. For example: an ILE cleans and irons his clothing, goes outside, then suddenly notices that there is a fold remaining. AAAAAA!! The mood has fallen - the day is ruined."

    ------------------------------------------------

    "The fact that the ILEs generate many ideas, does not mean that they spend a lot of time thinking (shhh, no need to tell this to LSIs and LSEs, they will not understand). For Don, all his discoveries are the results of spontaneous insights, not of purposeful and conscious mental activity. Here's an analogy: Two tourists are visiting a foreign city. One takes a map and a compass and deliberately and slowly moves towards the target position. This is the method of Robs (LIIs). About such man you can say "he is thinking all the time". The other tourist visits any point in sight and travels quickly. On the way, he manages to see the entire city, and eventually arrives somewhere. This is the method of Dons (ILEs). Somewhere deep inside Dons have a continuous and rather strange thought process, but it is unconscious such that even Don himself doesn't know about it. Only the results are available to the consciousness from which Don's impermeable confidence originates: "I know that this is right!" Of course, when you have such insights, it is necessary to think them over in the LII sense - but it doesn't take much time, and when all the main parts are clear, Dons are usually too lazy to think about the details. Actually, I suspect that all Dons are lazy dolts who are simply favored by fate which timely whispers to them the correct answers :-)

    This may sound ridiculous, but the main cause of bad mood for Dons is hunger. I would say Don’s intuition is like a flashlight. When the flashlight is working well, Dons are in a heroic mood, ready to overturn mountains, and generate big plans. If Don is hungry, the flashlight only keeps finding disappointing things – a heap of problems, "nobody-loves-me's", and all that jazz. So the best way to cure poor mood in Dons is care and feeding."

    ------------------------------------------------

    "Don’t tell Dons that they must do something. He will never do it. It is also better not to say "do this, if you are able to". The phrase "if you are able" will drive him nuts! It is better to say: "help me please, this is very important/needed/appreciated". Then he will help you, and will be proud of this heroic feat for the rest of the year.

    Concerning sex. Dons need to be seduced in various forms (better verbally), but he should initiate getting down to business. If you begin to suddenly tease him, and he isn't in the right mood, there won’t be any reaction. Not negative, not positive, just none.

    One of the most negative traits of Dons is to slam the door, become offended, retreat into themselves and close themselves off. This annoys me greatly! In general, it seems that they are incredibly idealistic and the fact that someone else has defects is deeply shocking for them."

    ------------------------------------------------

    1. Never, under any circumstances, would Don demand that someone should care for him. If you care – he will receive your care with enthusiasm, as a gift from life. He will try to help you out of gratitude. But if not – he will let it be, try to ignore it, though he will feel sad and start to look for a more hospitable spot. He won’t blame you that you don’t care. He will simply stop interacting with you on basis that he doesn't feel appreciated and needed.
    2. If Don is talking about your plans and prospects, this means that he wants to convince you that life is good and that all possibilities are open ahead of you. If he is talking about his own plans and prospects, he wants to give you an example of an optimistic and confident attitude.
    3. What’s wrong with dreaming, even if it’s empty? It enriches life and makes conversations more interesting.
    4. If you want to have something repaired around the house, better ask Don how to locate a good repairman and make a call using this information.
    5. If a person possesses the qualities that are attractive to Don (interesting, erudite, witty, decent, etc.) then Don will feel surprised if you have told him to treat this person in some other way from how he was treating them. It is better to tell Don a little bit about this person - about profession, age, whether he/she is intelligent and pleasant in interaction, for what purpose you want them to get acquainted. This will help Don to orient during the first meeting, though, for sure, a good deal of what was said he will later find to be untrue.

    I evaluate for myself how I will treat someone on basis of black ethics observations. If this is a good, decent person (by my standards) I will treat him/her well. The worst thing is when I see that someone is a terrible person, a scoundrel or an idiot for example, and he/she is not treated accordingly by others. Or a remarkable, intelligent person who is treated awfully. In such cases I am greatly perplexed. I run in circles looking for someone who will share my views on this person.

    IMHO, in pair Don-Dumas, it is Don who defines how to treat someone, and Dumas with his demonstrative function expresses this relationship.

    IMHO, Dumas always displays exactly the attitude that he/she has for someone. It’s just that Dumas does it with such refinement that you can guess this only if you know him or her well and have seen him or her in various situations. When I was baffled by behavior of Dumas, I often questioned how does he or she actually relate to a particular person. Explanations followed. Gradually, I learned to distinguish when Dumas is sincere - and when he/she is not. But, of course, I cannot evaluate this in all of the cases. Sometimes even the Dumas doesn't truly know what he/she feels towards someone. I treat such cases philosophically and think that in the end I will understand.


    A few of the more interesting posts from the thread:


    Alija (SEI): "When Don discloses to you the sky with diamonds, you need to clearly separate the sky and diamonds. When Don says (unobtrusively): "it would be nice to visit the sauna", it merely means "it wouldn’t be a bad idea to go to the sauna at some point in the distant future". When Don speaks about the desired image of the future, it is only a dream. Do not consider it to be a promise to do something!! I used to get upset with my Don for this, and also for how easily he trusts his "true friends", his impracticality, and that he calls me irregularly.

    Adam (SEI): “If you're looking for help, it depends with what. Solving some logical problem or finding a way out of a dead end situation is always our pleasure. Helping around the house ... reluctantly, meanwhile grinding teeth and swearing to myself, yes, I will do it. But the lady won’t earn any points for this. Solving some complicated ethical problem, talking to someone ... answer is a shameless "no". I also don’t like individuals who call me or message me and say: "how are you doing ... talk to me ... what are you doing right now ... what are you thinking" - thus trying to divert my attention. I distance myself from such persons. Those who try to make me feel guilty or ashamed I put on eternal ignore.

    Vatrushka (SEI): "Concerning who calls whom, Don or Dumas, I have studied this topic for 10 months, inside and out.

    Don calls in cases:
    1) When he needs something for work.
    2) When you have talked recently and everything was ok. If after the last contact more than several days have passed, Don will not call, because he is not sure that he is needed, and that everything is all right in your relations with him. That is, a pause in communication he may perceive as "something is wrong!" And if "something is wrong", then he will never call himself feeling afraid.
    3) He calls when he is in a habit, when it has become a tradition for him (despite irrationality). That is, if he's used to coming home and then calling you immediately, then he calls simply because he's used to it.

    Dumas calls:
    1) When he feels that "something is wrong." That is, in a situation where Don would not call himself to clarify the situation. (This is why they are duals!)
    2) When he senses that Don wants to call, but is afraid to do it. That is, when Don needs a green light. Then Dumas calls and asks "how does this screwy-cranky mechanism work?" - as if for him, Dumas, it is very important to know how it works! Then Don says "I’ll stop by today and investigate". That is, Dumas gives the green light, and Don immediately acts, fixing the situation.

    Ka-rinka (SEI): "This above is spot on! Dumas starts calling, when something is pulling him… Sometimes I am calling and thinking - "So, why am I doing this, there is nothing specific that I want to talk about… what am I going to say? But here, alas, Don helps me out - he manages to say everything at once, and then you quietly rejoice that you have called. And also Dumas calls from fear that he/she will become unneeded to Don, and this fear starts somewhere within hours after parting."

    Vatrushka (SEI): "But! Important! For example we have parted in the evening with my Don on positive notes. So, in the morning, when we meet again, he will be with me in exactly the same way. That is, during the time we were apart nothing has changed. It doesn't occur that he analyzes the past, notices some nonsense, starts to feel resentment and grows offended at me. Dons don't take offense after the fact. Only in the moment. If someone screwed up, and he missed it, then everything is okay. "Forgiving" for Don means to forgive. As a clean slate, no accumulation of resentment. Moreover - if Don is communicating with you, then everything is all right. If not, he won’t communicate with you at all.

    Nessie (ILE): Fi for Dons is a 1-dimensional function - for them relations either exist or don't exist. Relations are either very good, sincere, open – or they are reserved, dry, impersonal. There is no middle ground. The transition between the two states is extremely painful, especially from + to -. Therefore it is very important for us to make sure that we are accepted and loved. And to know in which category to include someone – either as a friend or someone we don’t care about. No, not an enemy – enemies don’t exist in our world, this is not the case in principle, by definition.
    There are friends - and acquaintances. Well, and strangers, of course.
    We can sign off person as a friend fairly quickly, and as a rule, this rarely changes. It’s not even that important if we communicate at all, but the person will remain on the "shelf" with the label "friend".
    That's why we forgive truly, permanently. For us, an offence is simply moving the person from friend to "only acquaintances", and forgiveness is to move the person back to a friend. Therefore, the past is automatically erased and there is no resentment at all. With a rare exception: when a person is somewhere in between, that is, he’s not really a friend and not quite an acquaintance, then tension can build up for as long as there exists such uncertainty.

    Schizophrenia (ILE): In regard to not analyzing relations after the fact, I don't know... Something is not right about this. In my opinion, it depends on Don's level of self-development. I very sensitively analyze (a strange expression, but it accurately reflects the essence of the question) the moods of other people. Often analyze the past. If I find some faults, I go up to the person and clarify the matter.
    Example: I attended a socionics seminar with my female friend (SLI) who came along to get typed. After the seminar, we parted in good spirits. Our relations were not strained. I came home that night, analyzed what happened and what didn't happen. After giving it some thought, I decided that my behavior in relation to her was not correct. The next day, at a meeting, I questioned her about it. And she confirmed (!) that my suspicions were entirely valid. I apologized and said that if any more such moments occur, she should tell me about it (although, with my experiences with Gabins, I can say that she will not tell - need to keep track of them).
    Conclusion: It is known that Fi, ethics of relationships, is a weak function for ILE. But there are a strong functions: structural logic & intuition of possibilities. These can help us orient in difficult, complicated human relations. It's like turning on a scanner, which monitors the discrepancies in words, reality, behaviors, motivations, and so on and so forth. Later, being in a familiar environment (eg. home alone) you can analyze these discrepancies. The result is superimposed on past experiences with relations and possible motives and causes of human behavior. Further it gets more complicated. Intuition is a good thing, and it can come up with a lot of possibilities. So my solution here is to go up to the person and clarify with him. If the person is sympathetic, he will oblige and give clarifications. Clarification get stored in the "treasury of experience". Then, small corrections of behavior, and lo, it's all good.

    Vatrushka (SEI): Some peculiarities of Dons' suggestive function. On one hand, my Don completely does not pay attention to his own scratches, sores, bruises. When he's repairing his car, he will for sure to pitch a finger or get a scrape, but he simply ignores this. He doesn't notice it. However, when I ask him what is this terrible scrape or bruise, he perks up and starts complaining. Until I give any attention to his bruises, he behaves as if they don't exist.

    On the other hand, if I have a bruise or a cut, he suddenly starts worrying, constantly stares at it, looks and quietly grows furious that he cannot cause any damage to the object that left it. And if I say that I have some pain or that I'm feeling sick, he becomes very attentive and caring - he runs to the pharmacy, gets the groceries, sits at my bedside and worries for me.

    At the same time, his own cuts, bruises, and illness he ignores. Moreover, he is well capable of punching someone in the face - for example, a taxi driver who cut in front of us, and the damage to the face of the taxi driver is of no concern to him. He doesn't feel sorry for the taxi driver and will come up and happily smash in his face. But he is terribly sensitive towards cats, dogs, mice, kids, etc. Let anyone even try to hurt a kitten in his presence - this person will pay for it dearly.


    s0rze
    Last edited by silke; 09-16-2017 at 03:56 AM.

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    FoxOnStilts's Avatar
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    I like this article a lot. I hope you can translate the rest of them as well. I feel the need to send this off to the boyfriend. A few weeks ago I made a "How to get FoxOnStilts to do what you want", and it mirrored a lot of this (especially in terms of chores )

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    My husband said that this highly fits mine and his relationship with him being the Dumas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    I like this article a lot. I hope you can translate the rest of them as well.
    There is unfortunately not much more that has been written for ILEs - some other types have like 3-4 of these 'guides' written for their 'care&exploitation' - so I've translated a few of the more insightful posts written by SEI and ILE posters from that thread and added them into the original. There is a guide for SEIs that I think I'll do next ... and eventually translate some of the other shorter writeups, but that's as the mood strikes me ;p

    Quote Originally Posted by Shayley View Post
    My husband said that this highly fits mine and his relationship with him being the Dumas...
    Didn't you type yourself as EII or some other NF type? Or have you re-typed into an ILE now?

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    I still don't understand why anyone would want to understand 'how to get along with ENTps'. You either like them or you don't and it's based entirely on the ILE not on your own actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I still don't understand why anyone would want to understand 'how to get along with ENTps'. You either like them or you don't and it's based entirely on the ILE not on your own actions.
    That's mostly the hords of confused SLIs on russian forums who feel attracted to them but keep bumping into issues, and the SEIs who have never been close with an ILE and upon encountering socionics need tips for figuring how they 'operate'. ILIs & ILEs seem to get each other quite well - they are like a turned inside out version of each other.
    Last edited by silke; 04-02-2013 at 07:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    That's mostly the hoards of confused SLIs on russian forums who feel attracted to them but keep bumping into issues, and the SEIs who have never been close with an ILE and upon encountering socionics need tips for figuring how they 'operate'. ILIs & ILEs seem to get each other quite well - they are like a turned inside out version of each other.
    I get on fine with ILEs as a rule of thumb, but I wouldn't trust one as far as I can throw it. There are a large number of them who are blatant opportunists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    There is unfortunately not much more that has been written for ILEs - some other types have like 3-4 of these 'guides' written for their 'care&exploitation' - so I've translated a few of the more insightful posts written by SEI and ILE posters from that thread and added them into the original. There is a guide for SEIs that I think I'll do next ... and eventually translate some of the other shorter writeups, but that's as the mood strikes me ;p
    I meant the rest of the types in this series ("Getting along with XXXx"), not just write all of ILE. Not that I would complain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    It's interesting to compare the effects of ENTp's Fi-PoLR with the effects that leading Fi has on the perception of their conflictor, the ISFj on the topic of remembering slights:

    This was written by an ILE girl:

    "Fi in Dons is 1-dimensional i.e. relations either exist or they don’t. Relations are either very good, sincere, open – or they are reserved, dry, impersonal. There is no middle ground. The transition between the two states is extremely painful, especially from + to -. Therefore it is so important for us to make sure that we are accepted and loved. In order to know in which category to include someone – either as a friend or someone we don’t care about. No, not an enemy – enemies don’t exist in our world. That is not the case in principle, by definition.
    Enemies are eliminated or no longer a threat.... That's why they no longer exist.

    This goes for SLE's too, even more so in many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post

    Didn't you type yourself as EII or some other NF type? Or have you re-typed into an ILE now?
    Since it was my husband who thought that the description fitted our relationship he took the time yesterday to write a response to this question but for some reason it looks like someone has deleted his post!

    Edit: Oh never mind I see its been moved from this thread into a derail.

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    How did ILEs become hate figures? I suppose creative people are never well liked.

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    love that "guide". spot on for me.

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