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Thread: Differences between EIIs and SEIs (INFj vs. ISFp)

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    Default Differences between EIIs and SEIs (INFj vs. ISFp)

    This has been circling around my head for a while now; it's rather upsetting actually to continuously try to explain some people that they are not INFj; whether you spell that INFJ or EII, doesn't matter much.

    I would like to begin with my discussion about general demeanor of both types and why some SEI confuse themselves with EII and you may add more reasons if you wish.

    There are a lot of similarities and things they have in common both internally and externally, but the things that really distinguish them are, and words to describe them are the following:

    SEI - fun, unassuming, down to earth; are a lot more willing to enjoy drinks and laughter, where silly things can be viewed, can be had and enjoyed with others. Because of the sympathetic nature of an SEI, “they can be deeply affected by the pain, unhappiness, or misfortune of others, but hide their vulnerability behind a veneer of detachment, appearing cool and removed.” Because they use the tool of TRUST, an SEI is far more likely than an EII to be more closed to select people, choosing who is privy to their deep thoughts and feelings, this is where Fi minus comes in. Overly sensitive. Because they are not forthcoming of their hurt feelings and resentments, they hold on to their feelings for a long time unlike an EII who has a magical ability to let go and move on and never mention or bring up the past. Because they take worries on to their shoulders, worries about people, family, stuff, they look like and EII, a concerned human who wants to help, this is very true, both can be like this. Both types are unassertive and can be taken an advantage of. They look for the best in others, but this is an individual bases as opposed to humanity. They rarely criticize the actions or beliefs of others. Live in the present moment where they find pleasure and joy in simple things -company, food, friends, etc. Don't plan as much as EII, not by a long shot. I have responded to posts by forum members who I type SEI and I often say “well, didn't you plan for this situation so that you could have been prepared by the various outcome of events that may have turned out?” and rightfully so. They can become pessimistic when things turn bad down the road because they didn't see things coming. Their living space may be cluttered, full of things that don't match or belong, looks like “lived in” style.

    EII - integrity, courage; prefer a serious environment; their vision, creativity, and originality is used in the service of others (notice I said service and not just help) to offer patience and support. Great at thinking up (cleaver) new and better ways to help people get their needs met (you are having trouble with food, hang around this area or go here and they will help you); this allows an EII to circumvent the world of what needs are being offered to people, not for them particularly but for those they love. "Are willing to subject themselves to skepticism or criticism in order to make their vision, which is driven by their strong values a reality." (which is uncharacteristic of SEI). Single minded narrowness. Have fierce determination, courage, stand up to all odds and keep going. Led by their values, by seriousness of outlook on the welfare of people and humanity translates to a serious person, they need to be reminded to relax, to enjoy lighter and pleasurable moments. When feelings hurt they pass easily. Have no trouble criticizing others actions. Live almost entirely in the past or in the future, plan plan plan. They do extensive preplanning on almost everything. In their living space, they like minimalist, clutter free, flowing aesthetic environment and try to keep their environment the same way.

    Both being excellent friends and listeners is one area where an SEI may confuse themselves for an EII; both want to provide support to others because one empathizes (EII) and the other offers sympathy (you can be there for the person who is suffering). Both are typically gentle and soft spoken, and both usually don't like to call attention to themselves. Both navigate the world of human relations and are concerned about keeping harmony. Both can be honest and trustworthy; because of WEAK Se and IGNORING Se SEI can look like EII in that they are both fail to take reality into account, they miss essential details, and choose to ignore essential facts, an SEI with this regard isn't likely to consider other facts; but unlike SEI, an EII through ideal is likely to take up a position, believing in that and thus acting dismissive of others and being judgmental of other views. They both have expectations about people's behaviors, but an EII is undemanding unlike an SEI; both can be stubborn and unyielding; both can enjoy art, both can like dancing, both enjoy planning, both are gentle, sensitive, and compassionate; both are committed and loyal to friends and family THIS IS NOT Fi, and both can look modest and reserved. Both are intensely private, and thus they conceal their true nature from others or their true problems and selves; both do not like to control and resist; they both work quietly and behind the scenes in various ways.

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    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.
    Just a shitty human being. The what is not type-related but the modus operandi may be.
    Reason is a whore.

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    She has a very romanticized view of herself and her lifestyle. Every new love interest is the one for her. She also believes she is closer with people than she actually is and flaunts any information that supports that claim, probably to make people uncomfortable with confronting her when she starts drama. Make them afraid to say anything to the contrary, you know?

    Her drama serves to move people around in her idealized social hierarchy. Her best friend is seen at the top and she feels that she is the puppet master.

    It's all very gross... I feel icky trying to explain it but the uncertainty is driving me nuts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.
    I doubt that's as much personality related as it is retarded-related. I can't relate to this person at all. If I have to take a jab at her type at all based on this little info here, she strikes more as gamma/beta than delta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.
    I would say SEI than EII; EII are prone to monogamous relationships; pick a person and stick with them, this is out of consistency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by felafel View Post
    Maritsa, no. Not type related.
    IDK with FiNe and such a huge guilt conscience, I don't see the type as being able to live in such superficial relational surrounding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    She has a very romanticized view of herself and her lifestyle. Every new love interest is the one for her. She also believes she is closer with people than she actually is and flaunts any information that supports that claim, probably to make people uncomfortable with confronting her when she starts drama. Make them afraid to say anything to the contrary, you know?

    Her drama serves to move people around in her idealized social hierarchy. Her best friend is seen at the top and she feels that she is the puppet master.
    Does any of this give you a better understanding? I don't know exactly how to explain a person as I go more off vibes which aren't easy to put in words sometimes.


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    The SEIs and EIIs that I know mostly fit the descriptions in the original post.

    Here are some distinguishing things that I have noticed:

    My SEI sister in law is calm like a rock. My EII friends are calm like a quiet lake - capable of being stirred up, but never like an ocean.

    The SEI once had to break up a fight between a bat and a dog in the dark in a thunderstorm. She dealt with the situation very effectively and then dried off and went back to her baking. She tells the story with quiet amusement. I can't imagine either of my 2 EII friends being willing to go out into a storm for that purpose, and if they had, the situation would have been much more draining to them.

    The SEI is very easy going with her kids. When she has to be firm about something really important, there is no guilt, she is just firm in that gentle rock-like way. The EIIs have more things that they think are important for their kids to do and be good at, and their kids definately feel this pressure from them that is more like an obligation.

    Remember to consider alpha/delta values. Te SEI thrives with the innovative ILE, who needs her stability and thoughtfulness. The EII needs the effective LSE, who benefits from her insight and thoughtfulness.

    P.S. Your friend doesn't sound much like either of these types. Sometimes people are not realistic about themselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    The SEIs and EIIs that I know mostly fit the descriptions in the original post.

    Here are some distinguishing things that I have noticed:

    My SEI sister in law is calm like a rock. My EII friends are calm like a quiet lake - capable of being stirred up, but never like an ocean.
    Yes, I very much agree with you on the level of calmness; externally, I think there are so many things that make the two type look similar. Would you happen to have an example of Fi minus (any SEI statements or comments)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    The SEI once had to break up a fight between a bat and a dog in the dark in a thunderstorm. She dealt with the situation very effectively and then dried off and went back to her baking. She tells the story with quiet amusement. I can't imagine either of my 2 EII friends being willing to go out into a storm for that purpose, and if they had, the situation would have been much more draining to them.
    Yes, draining is the operative word. I wonder why we can't sustain such energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    The SEI is very easy going with her kids. When she has to be firm about something really important, there is no guilt, she is just firm in that gentle rock-like way.
    Honestly, I often find my own attempts at being firm a joke; it's like my parter has to be conscientious enough to realize that I should get some things my way sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    The EIIs have more things that they think are important for their kids to do and be good at, and their kids definately feel this pressure from them that is more like an obligation.
    OOPSY You should do this, try that, eeek.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    Remember to consider alpha/delta values. Te SEI thrives with the innovative ILE, who needs her stability and thoughtfulness. The EII needs the effective LSE, who benefits from her insight and thoughtfulness.
    and the EII needs the LSE to be directive, to tell her what to do in certain situations, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    P.S. Your friend doesn't sound much like either of these types. Sometimes people are not realistic about themselves
    You're talking about Crayon's post?

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    Type this woman/ I think she is SEI. Any thoughts?



     
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    @Saberstorm, I watched about 6 minutes of the first video. Based on that, I would say that she is an EII. (She is more extraverted than the EIIs and SEIs that I know, however, almost reminds me of IEE.) Her speech is more definate than the speech of a perceiver, she uses words like "obviously" in a way that seems more judging to me. She uses way more words than my SEIs. You can tell she wants to convince you of what she is saying. SEIs put the facts out there and hope you will agree, but in my experience, I rarely feel that they are trying to persuade me or convince me. Any hesitancy in speech, I would chalk up to NE rather than P. She refers to motherhood as being draining, which would be more true of an infantile, although even caregivers must get worn out at times.
    Last edited by Iris; 01-17-2013 at 05:40 PM. Reason: typo

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    Just a few other observations about quadra values:

    Alpha -Fe: The SEIs that I know don't heap praise. They just radiate this quiet goodwill. If unpleasant talk breaks out, they will quietly object or withdraw.
    Alpha -Ti: They are big on fairness and being reasonable. One of the few times I have heard my SEI sister-in-law complain was about a teacher who was giving out time wasting busywork that was cutting into her daughter's limited free time to relax (which ties in with +Si.)

    Delta +Te: Without exception, the EIIs that I know are frugal with money even when they don't have to be. They worry a little about money in a way that the SEIs don't. They SEIs spend what they can to enjoy life within their means and dont fret about it.
    Delta -Si: This is where you see the difference between Ignoring Se (SEI) and POLR Se (EII,) if my understanding of this is correct. Despite being unvalued, the SEI has very good use of Se when they need to, and have less trouble in emergencies, and in dealing with the physical world in general. The EIIs seem more at the mercy of the elements and are more easily thrown off by physically difficult situations. (But they feel obligated to cope with them.)

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    her husband sooo hates making that video.
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    @Crayon Your friend repeatedly ending relationships and cutting people off seems more like Gamma -Fi (although a very sad, unhealthy example of it.) Beta +Fe seems to be more about maximizing positive communication and less about cutting people off. The Betas that I know seem to sustain relationships, even the "bad" ones, and use a lot of Fe to move things along in the direction they want to go
    Last edited by Iris; 01-17-2013 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    Type this woman/ I think she is SEI. Any thoughts?

    [/video]
    SEI

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    I think I will have to agree. The thing is not type related. It's about N and S . Most of the people think that being intutive is something special and being sensing, is being someone who is lower. Specially in teen years, when we all want to be original and achieve a lot in the future. Admiting her type, could harm her. Another thing is that she is an ethical type. World values logic way more than ethics. She may feel that she can´t understand a thing in the world.be counceled about how to achieve something in the future when being SEI, she has to be.

    She may feel herself little bit harrasted. People don't like put into boxes. And finding your type is something that is a major thing to know. She needs taking care to accept it.

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    I find it hard to mistake a SEI for an EII and viceversa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.
    Just sounds like a fucked up individual. Not type related.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    I find it hard to mistake a SEI for an EII and viceversa.
    @mikemex I would be interested to hear your typing of the girl in the videos. She says that she is more spontaneous than her ENTp husband. That seems hard to believe. She had to search back 10 years for an example of spontaneity in her life. She actually seems careful and calculating to me. I thought ENTps were quite spontaneous. She is considering enneagram types 1 or 7 for herself. She seems far more like a 1 to me (principled, purposeful, self controlled, and perfectionistic) than a 7 (spontaneous, versatile, acqisitive and scattered.) I would describe my SEI friends as enneagram 9s, for the most part. I just don't get that relaxed vibe from her. I can't imagine any of the SEIs that I know going to the trouble of making those long videos. Or an ILE dual wanting to listen to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    @mikemex I would be interested to hear your typing of the girl in the videos. She says that she is more spontaneous than her ENTp husband. That seems hard to believe. She had to search back 10 years for an example of spontaneity in her life. She actually seems careful and calculating to me. I thought ENTps were quite spontaneous. She is considering enneagram types 1 or 7 for herself. She seems far more like a 1 to me (principled, purposeful, self controlled, and perfectionistic) than a 7 (spontaneous, versatile, acqisitive and scattered.) I would describe my SEI friends as enneagram 9s, for the most part. I just don't get that relaxed vibe from her. I can't imagine any of the SEIs that I know going to the trouble of making those long videos. Or an ILE dual wanting to listen to them.
    Well, I find it hard to type a person from just a couple of videos. But at first glance, she doesn't seem like a sensing type at all. If you watch carefully, she seems quick to see a different angle of what she's saying which seems like a Ne valuer. And I see nothing pointing to introversion. I'd say IEE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Well, I find it hard to type a person from just a couple of videos. But at first glance, she doesn't seem like a sensing type at all. If you watch carefully, she seems quick to see a different angle of what she's saying which seems like a Ne valuer. And I see nothing pointing to introversion. I'd say IEE.
    Agree about the Ne and also will add that she seems more infantile than caregiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
    This may be somewhat off topic but here it goes.

    I am trying to type a former friend who swears that she is EII 9w1, yet tests as a SEI.

    She is horribly unfaithful in her relationships. At one point she was talking to (and was most likely intimate with) more than 8 different fellows yet would go home to her SLE boyfriend every night.

    As a SEI, I could never see myself doing this. Do you have any insight as an EII?

    She is incredibly close with a LIE and chases after a LSE who has lost interest in her because of her ways. She likes to remove people from her friend group by starting rumors and seems to only remain friends with people who can provide her with practical things.

    Is this an EII? SEI? I have never been presented with such a personality before.
    This girls sounds IEI imo. Think Marilyn Monroe type, also not sure if you're talking about socionics or MBTI tests.

    But it's possible she's EII, I've known many promiscuous EII's(mostly male, I highly suspect one female EII of being very promiscuous and I think maybe into various fetishes) but they often do it in a low key way which is hard to detect on first appraisal. They're often good at keep many relationships going as well as keeping things on the down low to avoid detection. Their demeanor don't lend people to distrust them due to a generally affable manner.

    People tend to tie with morality and a sense of morals, but just as often as a introtim function is personal and subject to an individuals upbringing, beliefs and sympathies.

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    I would like to add another observation

    I SEI is more pragmatic and organized than myself. When an SEI plan an activity, they are very regimented in how they puts it together and gets it done. They are also not as compassionate and friendly as EII. SEI tends to take care of their own and worry less about the world at large as in homeless people and just extending compassion to people outside their circle. SEI are more oriented toward material comfort and goods than EII are. I find SEI get cold towards people and bossy when they want them to coincide with their "image" as in if an SEI is into a certain fashion or trend they will negatively reproach others who aren't also; or they may be inclined to just shut someone out inadvertently. They can be bossy unlike EII.

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