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Thread: ESTps being abusive

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    Default ESTps being abusive

    so I am starting to worry about myself.

    Sometimes I lose interest in my partner. when this happens I just start getting really mean. then at the threat they're going to leave me I get super affectionate again.

    I don't like this behavior. I'd like to know what causes it. How I can fix it.

    In fact, I think if my partner punched me in the face, I would be completely turned on. When they're too nice, I start to lose interest.

    Am I fucked in the head? Is this normal?

    edit: I was in a textbook suffocating relationship.
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 01-10-2013 at 07:48 PM.

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    You have adopted SLE as your identity. I do not think you are one. Sorry.

    But anyway, since I think you are an Alpha SF, you duals are likely to be outgoing nerdy men. You have a hard time with women because they are not interesting enough. They are good for sex, but they are not good companions. That is because your better companions are Alpha NTs. Alpha NT women are rare.

    I think you have a problem because you are not with your duals, activators, or illusions. Find nice ILE LII and SLE girls to date. You are a SEI!
     
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    Here is your dual discription:

    ENTp-ISFp

    1. ILE regularly makes program statements regarding the prospects of the various theories, sets forth various unconventional ideas and hypotheses, which he learned by attending various lectures, seminars and unsystematic reading, transforming them and adding his own comments. SEI is configured to receive information of the kind that is most original and far-reaching in content and at the same time, fuzzy, vague, allowing many different interpretations in its form. SEI perceives an interlocutor who offers information in this way as the most intelligent, insightful, and therefore most interesting.

    2. ILE has the ability to destroy the old, fragile, outdated structures, to create schisms in organizations, distinguish new branches, organize new schools. Behavioral information of this kind is very attractive for the SEI. Resulting anarchy and instability, as well as rise of informal groups united by common splinter interests, is precisely the situation where the SEI can find the most use of his abilities as organizer, conciliator, objectively analyzing conflicts, collecting disparate supporters of the new movement or theory in a single direction. Domestic aspect of duality of their functions: ILE is very scattered at home, has a tendency to leave things where he used them, so only by efforts of SEI a satisfactory order can be ensured. With SEI's efforts things will not disappear.

    3. According to his role function, ILE mobilizes in emergency situations. If someone applies strong pressure on him, he can provide strong enough resistance. Backlog in work and chores in case of urgent need, for example, by approaching deadline, he can do in a short period of time, mobilizing all his forces. This function, being normative, i.e. inflexible, includes a limited set of behavioral norms. SEI serves as a director of this function, giving advice on the initiative, determination, and concrete actions: "achieve everything by your own hands" "do not sit around," "try doing this, try doing that", etc.

    4. For ILE it is difficult to express a bad attitude towards a person, to create a psychological distance: he is friendly and well predisposed to everyone equally, doesn't push anyone away. At the same time, he is poorly versed in people's attitude towards himself. He often behaves unceremoniously, loves staring at others, poorly considers ethical standards in relationships. Knowing this, often apologizes. SEI does not address this weakness verbally, that is, does not try to criticize or teach ILE. These issues SEI resolves himself, unconsciously. Under this function, he creates short psychological distances, which are manifested in sociability, friendliness in dealing with people. With such behavior, creating a democratic, relaxed atmosphere, he eliminates the need for ILE always be correct, to comply with etiquette, to not shock the audience by his behavior.

    5. ILE is configured to accept information that relays many interesting details and colorful associations that are easy to remember. It helps him to clothe his abstract, far-reaching and not always clear to others ideas into a convenient, comprehensible shell. It inspires him, demonstrates the usefulness of his theoretical work, its proximity to the needs of people. Not getting this sensory back-up to his ideas and plans, he starts to believe that a crisis is brewing around him, accuses the society of "rotting." Program statements of SEI regarding relaxation, leisure, comfort, as a prerequisite for one's well-being, removes the accumulating in ILE tension, reminds him of the need to take care of his physical body and appearance.

    6. ILE feels inconvenient for the open expression of emotions, for relaxed, low physical performance. Therefore, he shows restraint, seriousness, internal dramatization. Requires periodic emotional shake-up, which he receives from the SEI. SEI is able to "stir up" a person by telling a number of funny and colorful jokes and anecdotes full of innuendos. When a person is enlivened, his emotional delivery stops. This 'anarchist' tendency of emotions of SEI is exactly what is needed to maintain high vitality in ILE. Not getting emotional support of this kind from an SEI partner, LIE tries to attain it by attending various parties and entertainment events (typical of logical subtype).

    7. ILE subconsciously feels the flow of events in time. Based on the past, he can predict the future, so he often disparages past achievements, loses interest in them. Gives advice of tactical nature - how to proceed in a difficult situation, how to get out of the tangle of contradictions. Knows how to find between two alternatives a third outcome. Due to this quality he directs this function in SEI, describes the prospects opening up in the future, shows win-win propositions and solutions. Without advice and adjustments from ILE, the activities of SEI are much less successful - on one hand, too smooth and lightweight, and on the other hand, SEI has no way of resolving the contradictions that have accumulated in the past.

    8. ILE has the unconscious ability to draw benefit from any situation in which he finds himself (this quality is more pronounced in logical subtype than intuitive subtype). This business activity is indirect in its nature i.e. negotiating, trading, mediating, contracting, etc. not direct production. In this function, ILE has no effect on SEI, does not openly and verbally criticize or teach him. Direct business activity is difficult for SEI. He shows a tendency to solve problems of this nature on an informal level, using connections available to him. ILE frees him from having to comply with complex dynamics of official business relations, demonstrating his ability as "combinator", creator and locator of beneficial contracts and bargains.

    translated from: http://socionic.ru/index.php/2010-10..._dyuma_gulenko
     
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    Don't punch people in the face DJA.

    Especially not if you plan to sleep with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireyed View Post
    tmi
    hahahaha. that makes me feel better.

    well, I also get pissed off that she likes me. Like, I don't know why. I don't like the fact that I can call her anytime I want and she'll be there for me. I guess I also feel like she's expecting me to talk to her every day? or, I'm getting pissed off that she'll freak out if I don't talk to her. I mean, she hasn't, not yet, but a lot of women I meet, do, and I guess I sorta feel the same way. fml.

    I started getting aggressive with her online once, and she just said, "here, watch this." and put on a video of some girl tapping on a glass bottle, and it completely soothed and tamed me. what the hell is my problem
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 01-08-2013 at 01:02 AM.

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    I think a lot of it comes down to most men generally wanting a challenge. You guys get bored when you feel like you can predict everything. You yawn when the girl is too nice and needy. You like it when something is difficult to obtain, it as keeps you on your feet. When a girl has you confused or unsure of what she's thinking, it drives you crazy. You'd fucking move mountains for her.

    Don't tell me I'm wrong.
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    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I don't think this is type related. I get incredibly bored when there are no challenges. I think everyone does. When I'm ignored, I want them even more. It's like that for everyone, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireyed View Post
    I think a lot of it comes down to most men generally wanting a challenge. You guys get bored when you feel like you can predict everything. You yawn when the girl is too nice and needy. You like it when something is difficult to obtain, it as keeps you on your feet. When a girl has you confused or unsure of what she's thinking, it drives you crazy. You'd fucking move mountains for her.

    Don't tell me I'm wrong.
    Yeah... I would. I can only love them when they don't love me in return. I wish it wasn't the case. It just sucks. I have to force myself to talk to her. Its always very pleasant when I do. But I still have to. There's this wall I have to jump over.

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    Being abusive is not type related.

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    DJA, this time you have a real problem that affects many of us. There is no need to use socionics as a medium for having this conversation.

    Homo sapiens are K-strategists. We have only few offspring per generation but we take care of them well. Rats are an example of the opposite, known as r-strategists. Gender has been regarded as a good way for nature to divide the workload. Traditionally K-strategist females are the ones left to nurse because titties and mother's instinct. Thus the immobile women wanted to secure a male in order to provide for their family. The male counterpart is ambivalent: he wants to spread his genes, in other words, fuck around, but he also wants to secure his offspring. Extraordinarily successful males can have harems with offspring with several mothers while being the only father. A mother trying to secure a harem is more difficult due to the reproduction being far more difficult and restraining for the female. A man can repeat the insemination process in half hours but the woman has to wait 9 months and then she is tied to nursing an infant.

    In the age of feminism and contraceptives, this seems irrelevant. However these things still subtly guide us. Most of us here are used to the idea about monogamous relationships. However, our primal instinct tells us to cultivate our genes through selective mating. You, as a male, are more competitive. You couldn't stand the idea that you'd be losing your potential mate to another male, yet when you have satisfied her want, you want to add to your harem. In our culture men have learned and evolved to deal with the conflict between securing a harem and being part of the prevailing monogamous mating culture in various ways, such as infidelity, becoming a pimp and commitment problems.

    And now I'm going to post a string of pictures representing the ultimate man: Genghis Khan. The orchestrator of the leadership with the highest kill count, every 200th person is a direct descendant of him and the man couldn't even read.




    Oh, and umm Jessica has male brain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    In fact, I think if my partner punched me in the face, I would be completely turned on. When they're too nice, I start to lose interest.

    Am I fucked in the head? Is this normal?
    It is normal for beta people, even when your partner raped you without your consent, it's normal as well...

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    this sounds like stupid highschool drama bullshit.

    Either grow up and change or embrace it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    this sounds like stupid highschool drama bullshit.

    Either grow up and change or embrace it.
    Now beat his ass while you're at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    this sounds like stupid highschool drama bullshit.
    sanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    so I am starting to worry about myself.

    Sometimes I lose interest in my partner. when this happens I just start getting really mean. then at the threat they're going to leave me I get super affectionate again.

    I don't like this behavior. I'd like to know what causes it. How I can fix it.

    In fact, I think if my partner punched me in the face, I would be completely turned on. When they're too nice, I start to lose interest.

    Am I fucked in the head? Is this normal?
    I don't think this is normal or type-related. I will refrain from trying to analyze this in depth, but you might want to run this by a professional. It sounds too much like domestic violence waiting to happen...
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    Find another emotionally stunted woman and have a wonderful relationship together.
    Last edited by momental; 01-08-2013 at 04:23 PM. Reason: cuz don't wanna sound stupid.

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    Your duals are tall nerdy men, so you should start dating them, it will solve all your problems (it is, however, not a dating site - ask tcaudllig for that...)

    Homo sapiens are K-strategists. We have only few offspring per generation but we take care of them well.
    There's quite a big difference in different human "populations" when it come to r-K preference, usually it boils down to the unpredictability of the environment (the more unpredictable, the better is to prefer a r strategy).
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    Yup. I'm an E6.

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    hahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Yup. I'm an E6.
    I don't understand how having violent tendencies makes you E6...

    Are your violent episodes triggered by anxiety?

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    nope. back to E8 again.

    I only feel abusive, because she is starting to "break" under my pressure. She's not an IEI. I have to be gentle with her. She and I love teasing each other, but there's no aggression or energy behind it.

    Something is wrong. I'm testing her, she's starting to break under the pressure, and I'm getting scared that she'll leave me.
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 01-08-2013 at 08:11 PM.

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    you are a woman

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    uh, well, my need for clarity and hatred of ambiguity causes me to interrogate her. I resent her for liking me. It makes me feel pressured. I have no ability to make us happen. She does. I feel no control in the situation.

    Its not that I'm VIOLENT per say. I just get really antagonistic, testy, I interrogate.

    This behavior ONLY happens in relationships. Outside of relationships I don't care about anyone but myself so I've never really noticed this behavior before.

    I wonder if this is only a problem because... she's not right for me.
    Thanks for the clarity DJA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    uh, well, my need for clarity and hatred of ambiguity causes me to interrogate her. I resent her for liking me. It makes me feel pressured. I have no ability to make us happen. She does. I feel no control in the situation.

    Its not that I'm VIOLENT per say. I just get really antagonistic, testy, I interrogate.

    This behavior ONLY happens in relationships. Outside of relationships I don't care about anyone but myself so I've never really noticed this behavior before.

    I wonder if this is only a problem because... she's not right for me.
    Frankly it sounds like you like to be in control, rather than anything salient about her past taking basic initiative.

    And before someone says "But doesn't everyone like some control over their life and shit?" a) 'good' relationships aren't about control, since trust becomes* established and b) not to this extent christ, unless you're just looking for a spy and an intense fling in Soviet Russia.

    I also second Ashton's point.

    *Note progression. Also note pitfalls of moving goalposts etc when one gets scared.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    nope. back to E8 again.

    I only feel abusive, because she is starting to "break" under my pressure. She's not an IEI. I have to be gentle with her. She and I love teasing each other, but there's no aggression or energy behind it.

    Something is wrong. I'm testing her, she's starting to break under the pressure, and I'm getting scared that she'll leave me.
    She probably should. Dating horses has never worked out for any human. They break, but once they are able to kick you off the saddle damn they wanna stomp you down dead!

    And her not being an IEI has nothing to do with her inability to pass these tests, especially ones that are as unreasonable as this.

    Or perhaps she now has the upper hand and should use it to own you; which, apparently would work in her "favor" and I only use those because who wants to be with someone who tests them all the time?

    Of course, if she enjoys it, then you may have actually found the dysfunctional woman I was speaking of earlier. So... Let's hope for the second.

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    No. No I don't think there's anything wrong with me.

    I have to change myself to appreciate her music, etc. I run at her like I'm on a jet ski, and she performs some jedi mind trick that completely nullifies my energy and enthusiasm and subdues me. I don't like being subdued, I like being met. It feels like I'm picking up a ragdoll and dropping it when I'm with her.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I just think we're not meant to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    DJA, this time you have a real problem that affects many of us. There is no need to use socionics as a medium for having this conversation.

    Homo sapiens are K-strategists. We have only few offspring per generation but we take care of them well. Rats are an example of the opposite, known as r-strategists. Gender has been regarded as a good way for nature to divide the workload. Traditionally K-strategist females are the ones left to nurse because titties and mother's instinct. Thus the immobile women wanted to secure a male in order to provide for their family. The male counterpart is ambivalent: he wants to spread his genes, in other words, fuck around, but he also wants to secure his offspring. Extraordinarily successful males can have harems with offspring with several mothers while being the only father. A mother trying to secure a harem is more difficult due to the reproduction being far more difficult and restraining for the female. A man can repeat the insemination process in half hours but the woman has to wait 9 months and then she is tied to nursing an infant.

    In the age of feminism and contraceptives, this seems irrelevant. However these things still subtly guide us. Most of us here are used to the idea about monogamous relationships. However, our primal instinct tells us to cultivate our genes through selective mating. You, as a male, are more competitive. You couldn't stand the idea that you'd be losing your potential mate to another male, yet when you have satisfied her want, you want to add to your harem. In our culture men have learned and evolved to deal with the conflict between securing a harem and being part of the prevailing monogamous mating culture in various ways, such as infidelity, becoming a pimp and commitment problems.

    And now I'm going to post a string of pictures representing the ultimate man: Genghis Khan. The orchestrator of the leadership with the highest kill count, every 200th person is a direct descendant of him and the man couldn't even read.




    Oh, and umm Jessica has male brain.
    More accurately, Jessica looks at the world in the way society assumes most males look at it. Jessica has a Jessica brain. Female and male brains differ very little from each other if they do. Even if we say 55% of males and females have disparate, gender-stereotype personalities (not brains, mind you), 45% of each gender would be short-shrifted.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    No. No I don't think there's anything wrong with me.

    I have to change myself to appreciate her music, etc. I run at her like I'm on a jet ski, and she performs some jedi mind trick that completely nullifies my energy and enthusiasm and subdues me. I don't like being subdued, I like being met. It feels like I'm picking up a ragdoll and dropping it when I'm with her.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I just think we're not meant to be.
    I would look at her instinct if I was you. Sounds more like an sx-primary with a non-sx-primary problem, to me. I'm intense as hell, and I'm an Ni-dom.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    If it's not working for you and you don't feel like trying to make it work, then just stop. No socionics, no series of regurgitations, just The End.

    And better luck next time.

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    The conflation of things like "sx first intensity" and "beta values" with manipulative and shitty behavior should really stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairylights View Post
    If it's not working for you and you don't feel like trying to make it work, then just stop. No socionics, no series of regurgitations, just The End.

    And better luck next time.
    To the infinite power, yes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Oh, and umm Jessica has male brain.
    Why do you say that? I like to think of myself as having above average common sense and the ability to think like a rational person. I guess women aren't capable of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I would look at her instinct if I was you. Sounds more like an sx-primary with a non-sx-primary problem, to me. I'm intense as hell, and I'm an Ni-dom.
    eh. She's not what I want. I want xena warrior princess, not princess peach. And don't say those don't exist. They do. I just haven't met them yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    eh. She's not what I want. I want xena warrior princess, not princess peach. And don't say those don't exist. They do. I just haven't met them yet.
    Have you told her this or are you just telling us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Have you told her this or are you just telling us?
    *sigh*... I haven't said this exact line yet. But I've basically said it with a lot of fluff. It really makes me feel awful. She's all, "lets play make believe kitty cats" and I'm all "RAWR LETS GET DRUNK AND THROW SPEARS!" I just end up feeling like a monster talking to her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    DJA, this time you have a real problem that affects many of us. There is no need to use socionics as a medium for having this conversation.

    Homo sapiens are K-strategists. We have only few offspring per generation but we take care of them well. Rats are an example of the opposite, known as r-strategists. Gender has been regarded as a good way for nature to divide the workload. Traditionally K-strategist females are the ones left to nurse because titties and mother's instinct. Thus the immobile women wanted to secure a male in order to provide for their family. The male counterpart is ambivalent: he wants to spread his genes, in other words, fuck around, but he also wants to secure his offspring. Extraordinarily successful males can have harems with offspring with several mothers while being the only father. A mother trying to secure a harem is more difficult due to the reproduction being far more difficult and restraining for the female. A man can repeat the insemination process in half hours but the woman has to wait 9 months and then she is tied to nursing an infant.

    In the age of feminism and contraceptives, this seems irrelevant. However these things still subtly guide us. Most of us here are used to the idea about monogamous relationships. However, our primal instinct tells us to cultivate our genes through selective mating. You, as a male, are more competitive. You couldn't stand the idea that you'd be losing your potential mate to another male, yet when you have satisfied her want, you want to add to your harem. In our culture men have learned and evolved to deal with the conflict between securing a harem and being part of the prevailing monogamous mating culture in various ways, such as infidelity, becoming a pimp and commitment problems.

    And now I'm going to post a string of pictures representing the ultimate man: Genghis Khan. The orchestrator of the leadership with the highest kill count, every 200th person is a direct descendant of him and the man couldn't even read.




    Oh, and umm Jessica has male brain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Gender has been regarded as a good way for nature to divide the workload. Traditionally K-strategist females are the ones left to nurse because titties and mother's instinct. Thus the immobile women wanted to secure a male in order to provide for their family. The male counterpart is ambivalent: he wants to spread his genes, in other words, fuck around, but he also wants to secure his offspring. Extraordinarily successful males can have harems with offspring with several mothers while being the only father. A mother trying to secure a harem is more difficult due to the reproduction being far more difficult and restraining for the female. A man can repeat the insemination process in half hours but the woman has to wait 9 months and then she is tied to nursing an infant.




    In the age of feminism and contraceptives, this seems irrelevant. However these things still subtly guide us. Most of us here are used to the idea about monogamous relationships. However, our primal instinct tells us to cultivate our genes through selective mating. You, as a male, are more competitive. You couldn't stand the idea that you'd be losing your potential mate to another male, yet when you have satisfied her want, you want to add to your harem. In our culture men have learned and evolved to deal with the conflict between securing a harem and being part of the prevailing monogamous mating culture in various ways, such as infidelity, becoming a pimp and commitment problems..
    This conflates orgasm-desire with desire for zygote-producing coitus. There's this thing called masturbation. There's also this thing called oral. Females, and males, could follow their sexual urges without making babies. We don't necessarily have the desire to reproduce or get urges to. We, most of us for part of our lives, DO have sexual-release desire, but that need not be construed as an evolution with the sole benefit of continuing reproduction of our species. Last time I checked, cumming was a great personal recreational activity. Also, at least some people in some encounters with sexual partners have found it to be a fun, positive shared recreation. *




    Even if it was a correct point that we all have sex in order to have babies, which isn't a logical necessity from the viewing of the evolution of life, the weirdly and previously popular idea that guys naturally had a greater desire to have sex with multiple partners is challenged by data coming in on observed female mating behavior in the animal world. http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/4/462.full *This article notes that females go after multiple partners. Studies about the potential benefit to procreation of this female multiple-partner-selection include: http://si-pddr.si.edu/jspui/bitstrea..._Behaviour.pdf
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    eh. She's not what I want. I want xena warrior princess, not princess peach. And don't say those don't exist. They do. I just haven't met them yet.
    um, that's exactly what I said.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    The conflation of things like "sx first intensity" and "beta values" with manipulative and shitty behavior should really stop.
    I was going to a potential root cause of behavior he is condemning in himself or perhaps incorrectly conflating with evil himself. For instance, the posts I've read seem rather vague about actual aggression. He seems to be bothered by feelings and/or actions he worries might be incipient aggression.
    I am not conflating sx-first intensity with abusive action when I suggest that he is an sx-primary underwhelmed in his desire for intense interaction by the dampening affect of a non-sx-valuer. I can see how it would look like that, though. What I am talking about is psychological dissatisfaction, not abusive action post inner dissatisfaction. One can be dissatisfied and behave respectfully.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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