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Thread: Alpha Quadra: running a business alpha style?

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    Default Alpha Quadra: running a business alpha style?



    Let's talk about running a business alpha style! How do you think it would be done? The socionics concept of the progression of information indicates that we are the seekers of new ideas, the enthusists for innovation, the mediators of supporters, and the makers of final production prototypes. So how do you think we would run our offices?

     
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    Likely it would start with a lot of ideas and enthusiasm before devolving into a massive orgy.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Those girly SEIs. But seriously folks...
     
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    the typical start-up firm that is centered around a groundbreaking idea that blasts open a niche into the market by showing people something they never knew they wanted but did is pretty heavily infused with alpha-esque themes, imo.

    people tend to underestimate the extent to which the alpha mindset matches the spirit of business and capitalism. all the hassle and fuss around making business plans and arranging trades is peripheral rather than central to the basic activity of connecting people to their wants and coming up with the means of providing them.

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    outstanding reply!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    people tend to underestimate the extent to which the alpha mindset matches the spirit of business and capitalism. all the hassle and fuss around making business plans and arranging trades is peripheral rather than central to the basic activity of connecting people to their wants and coming up with the means of providing them.
    This was pretty much what I came to say, only he said it better.

    Anyway, I have an idea I'll be working on once I get some start up money so I'll get back to you. ILE managing the books and scheduling while SEI does the labor. WHAT COULD GO WRONG?!

    (Don't answer that, but seriously I'm excited.)

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    @labster Now we need an encore performance. Labster, what are Alpha-esque themes? In your own words, of course!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    @labster Now we need an encore performance. Labster, what are Alpha-esque themes? In your own words, of course!
    i don't really want to lock down the definition concretely. i'm suspicious of the activity of considering socionical concepts in a deeper and more elaborate way than to just orient by the associations that float out there in the discourse because half of the time you write down your understanding in definite terms you end up with something that is both too hard to interpret and doesn't work as its supposed to. the return to the time investment just isn't there, if there isn't simply a negative one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    all the hassle and fuss around making business plans and arranging trades is peripheral rather than central to the basic activity of connecting people to their wants and coming up with the means of providing them.
    (for the record, I also think so)
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    gangnam style?

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    I'd say that Google is a good example of an Alpha company, especially back when they started. I imagine success has changed them some, since then.

    Their offices are more like a playground than a workplace, which seems pretty characteristically Alpha.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I'd say that Google is a good example of an Alpha company, especially back when they started. I imagine success has changed them some, since then.

    Their offices are more like a playground than a workplace, which seems pretty characteristically Alpha.
    i don't strongly disagree with any of this, but i'd like to point out that back in the days Rick labeled their two CEOs a gamma mirror couple and most people had no qualms with supporting those typings. there is a lesson to be learned here about how relative typing consensi are and to which lengths you can go in socionics to support two sets of contradictory typings while making both narratives sound perfectly internally consistent.

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    I am very close to a ESE who owns and manages a mid sized hardware store. Originally it was his fathers venture, but after university this ESE was given 55% of the business by his Dad and became partners. The ESE was young at the time, 23, but because of the way he was raised, and most especially because his Dad is an ENTj in my opinion, this ESE has an excellent head for business.

    What ESE are talented at: they are excellent workers with really good ethics and seemingly inexaustable energy. He goes from early in the morning to late at night and still comes home and whips out a lasangna and pie. He is a workaholic and I have read this is quite commen of ESEs, to the point that he makes himself tired. He likes everything at work to be perfect, the displays, the products, the yard, it all has to look good.

    ~The Nitty Gritty. When it comes to the details, this ESE has it all covered. He has systems for everything and this can rub other people the wrong way, as he has to balance his need for controll with his need to be liked by everyone, to make everyone happy. So every item has a home, and it has to be there. Now when it comes to the contract law of the business, he unconciously seeks order and rules upon rules. He is so good with money, but does like to spend. He loves dealing with the lawyers, because it makes him feel smart, which is a huge ego boost. He loves dressing up in nice suits, the whole aesthetic side of being a business owner. To the point that it is kind of comical for me, as a business suit, tie and dress shoes are not needed for meeting construction contractors, or organising clients for lumber.

    ~People. He makes everone feel welcome in his store, all costomers are personally greeted, he knows everyone, he talks to everybody, laughs, jokes. Now he is a sucker for a smooth talking sales person. Big time. If someone convinces him of a god deal, he will buy it. It seems that he does this based soley on his feelings about the person he is dealing with. He goes alot on his feelings of people. Hde often says people give him good or bad vibes. Even when from the outside I can see that those people are not nessasarily responding to the ESE happy go lucky attitude. Some people just want to get down to business with out all the chit chat. He is sensative. And though he has gotten alot better over the years, I know he takes much personally. When staff have a problem, he needs convincing that it is not personally about him. If he has to fire someone, it used to be so difficult for him to do this. It helps if the reasoning behind the dismissal is supported by written rules that himself and his managemnet team have come up with. This way he feels the loose ends are tied up. He is able to say goodbye to this person if one the ESE ends all the ends have been tied.

    "You see? Says in the employee handbook that you must not text at work! Oh, you are going to do it anyway? Well Im going to tell you to stop it three times, then afterwards Im going to be passive aggressive about it and never confront you directly because that means I am going to feel icky and make you feel bad."

    He can write people off forever, once he knows there is no chance for reconiliation. He moves towards completion and this includes his dealings with others. He likes making every one happy and has since learned that it is not possible, although I supect in his heart that he can please everyone. Now, he cannot listen without getting hurt if the other person approuches him about an issue if that person is being emotionl. For example, if someones temper is raised, the ESE will focus on the temper and the emotion instead of the underlying issue at hand. He needs constant reminding from his ENTj Dad and others not to take thing personally. Even his dad gets frustrated with hbim, but I think this is typical of families who are business owners. The term positive reinforment must have been invented by an ESE, because they thrive under terms of enderment. Their LII duals need to know when they have made the ESE happy, sad, angry and so on. On more positive notes, the ESE definetly treats everyone with respect. He makes sure that employees are hapy, comfortable, even goes as far as buying expensive toiletries for the staff washroom (creative Si after all). At christmas parties he personaly purchases indivual gifts for each staff memeber and bottles of crown royal rum and a fat bonus. He again likes everyone to enjoy themselves, disharmony in the work place weighs heavily on him. Going to buy shows and conventions might make other people bored as hell, but that is his favorites places. The whole going on a trip, the chance to bullshit with hundreds of strangers, the chance to be offered so many offers. He loves that kind of thing. Overall, I think he is a fair employer that likes treating people fairly and equally, but has a difficult time being the strong arm manager, which is absolutly nessesary at the work place. The ESE can learn to shut off their Fe ego in times like this.

    ~New ventures. They are never ending. He always has new ideas cooked up and pushes for changes at work. This can makes is staff upset, but he will do it anyway. He is in for constant improvement and constant increases of new products offered for his costomers. He recently added an applaince store to the harware store. This project he started singal handedly and I have to give him full props. He has taken that store and in a matter of years transformed it from where it was to the most successfll business in town. Voted number one by the better business bearue (sp). He was even offered a position on the regional comunity baord, which he turned down, because he has no time I think and no inclination for governemnt or polotics, typical of ESEs. I know for a fact that His sense of time is shit, however and often has no concept of how long a new project will actually take. From a new computer point of sale system, to a complete store renovation, to new staff, to new products, to new yard design, he is tiressesly making changes in true alpha quadra spirit. People often have to dampen his plans and holy jeezus christ do ESE not like changes their plans. Everything is planned out, in their head, and others are often left wonder what the heck he is doing. Because he has a difficult time laying out his thoughts step by step, as all ESE do, he often finds himself on the wrong side of others opinions, whcih again hurts him. He just wants others to merril6 follow his plans without question or debate. To debate with an ESE is considered a no no. They have a hard time separating fact from personal opinion. Thank god they have their LII duals. Because few others have the pateint or tolerance to put up with the constant need for reassurance. And in the business setting, ESE need constant positive reinforment that the have made the correct decisions. This is especially true of new ventures. The ESE asks, have I made the right choice? Will it work? Will it make me money? They are apprehensive for the future, and will plan each and everystep to make sure they have control over it. Did I miss something? What are the unknowns? These are the questions an ESE asks. Thank god they are rationals. They lean towards conservatism, because otherwise they would find their companies going south. And I do not mean literally.


    I think the alpahs sterotypes of them being flippant, happy go lucky, emotional, brainiac nerds, with great hair and nice smiles is mostly false. I say mostly because ESEs do have great hair. They can, like anyother person can, strive to be great business owners. Just like each of us, we can if self aware of our minds and actions, improve areas that we currently struggle with, and excell in areas we are natuarlly talented at. For ESEs, being natural people people greatly benefits them in a business setting, as interaction with customers, business partners, governments, requires a socially adept person. They make others feel trusted and trusting. They work towards win wins (althought secretly are real shrewds sharks, thank god they have that brutally honest dual). They start new projects and work towards stability in the workplace. They need reminding that it is okay to be cut throat, and remembering that not everyone is going to get along and that is okay, but if they trust you, you will benefit from them for years to come, because they think long term. Alphas can be excellent at business. I know for a fact that without this ESE, this company would NOT be where it is at, nor turning the profit it is now making. He deserves to be proud of himself.

    I hope I included the all ideas I have been thinking about. I am sure others will come up. Even though the relationship I have with this particular ESE is one of mirage, I greatly appreciate the time I have spent with him and helping his company thrive. One last thing though, what about the ISFp....?
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    i don't strongly disagree with any of this, but i'd like to point out that back in the days Rick labeled their two CEOs a gamma mirror couple and most people had no qualms with supporting those typings. there is a lesson to be learned here about how relative typing consensi are and to which lengths you can go in socionics to support two sets of contradictory typings while making both narratives sound perfectly internally consistent.
    Yeah, I remember that. These days I don't much care about other people's type diagnoses, except as further data to take into account alongside my own observations. Honestly, the Alpha-appearing work environment of Google is enough to make me want to take a second look at the Google CEOs' type diagnosis, and see if Rick missed anything. Maybe I'll get around to it eventually.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    I've always seen Peter Norvig, Director of Research (formerly Director of Search Quality) at Google Inc.[1][2][3][4], as Alpha Nt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Likely it would start with a lot of ideas and enthusiasm before devolving into a massive orgy.

    Alphas really do love orgies (the ones I've met IRL all have sex with eachother. together, as a group, alone..) what the hell is up with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Alphas really do love orgies (the ones I've met IRL all have sex with eachother. together, as a group, alone..) what the hell is up with that?
    Hahaha.

    Wonder what gammas and betas do.

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    they're resaurant people. maybe that's why their particular business flourishes? they all bibically "know" eachother if you know what i mean

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Alphas really do love orgies (the ones I've met IRL all have sex with eachother. together, as a group, alone..) what the hell is up with that?
    where are you from?

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    An Alpha business necessarily implies the presence of each of the four quadra members to the exclusion of non-quadra types. Otherwise, we'd be speaking of something else.

    An Alpha business venture would probably thrive on its internal dynamics and popular sentiments for those dynamics rather than any particular business acumen or product. Meaning, an alpha business venture would be successful in terms of how it is organized; generally egalitarian and avante-garde. This would "fly in the face" of the business norms and atmosphere of the times. The venture would thrive based on niche interests, relatability (drawing in popular support), emphasis on a particular philosophy, and long term preparation against uncertainties. An alpha business would not "attack" a market, it would build one from multiple angles. The most essential features would be a new kind of organizational philosophy that increases customer relatability (Ti/Fe), and emphasis on stable niche hobbies/interests which can be grown into mainstream norms (Si/Ne).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Yeah, I remember that. These days I don't much care about other people's type diagnoses, except as further data to take into account alongside my own observations. Honestly, the Alpha-appearing work environment of Google is enough to make me want to take a second look at the Google CEOs' type diagnosis, and see if Rick missed anything. Maybe I'll get around to it eventually.
    But...but...who would not like to work in that kind of setting? I think they tried to make it universally attractive...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    one explanation for the apparent contradiction is that google may owe its success to its founders' ability to juxtapose the positive features of their own quadra and its opposite.

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    I want someone to type me by how my workplace is set up. any takers? I'll make a documentary from my phone's camera, from the view of my pocket. Oh, the sounds that will be heard!

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    no takers? fineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


    you're missing out. my older black coworkers cackle and yell "John Henry" no less than 40 times a day. but it's pronounced, "JOnnnn HenRrraay"

    I like to answer back with, "Helllurr" but really. it's annoying and tiring. and they are low-intelligence, vicious hyenas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I want someone to type me by how my workplace is set up. any takers? I'll make a documentary from my phone's camera, from the view of my pocket. Oh, the sounds that will be heard!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    no takers? fineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


    you're missing out. my older black coworkers cackle and yell "John Henry" no less than 40 times a day. but it's pronounced, "JOnnnn HenRrraay"

    I like to answer back with, "Helllurr" but really. it's annoying and tiring. and they are low-intelligence, vicious hyenas.
    LSE.

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    I would love to find a laundry list of companies that have a greater 'alpha-based theme'. I am an ESE (39 y.o.) who is currently on an overly extended job search. I am trained with a Ph.D. in the life sciences and have also done some life coaching and math/science tutoring on the side. However, I am having a killer time having my skills and talent work constructively towards landing a new job. As an alpha, I am a highly enthusiastic guy...truly passionate for life in general. I also have a deeply curious and inquisitive mind that, while is not alpha NT, certainly exhibits a lot of and in general. So, I would love the opportunity to work in an alpha company. It is generally hard because my scientific field has more of a cutthroat, competitive feel to it, and despite the years that it took to obtain a doctorate degree, I am seemingly not able to extend my career in the way that I envisioned it (due to the intense competition and difficulty that I am finding in landing a job). I have quite a lot to contribute to any organization (via my curiosity, enthusiasm, analytic nature, and friendliness), and would love the opportunity to use these gifts towards a valuable career path.

    I know that I have potential to be valued by the types of people that value a more alpha-ish corporate culture and am yearning to find a company that can utilize my scientific and interpersonal background in a way that fits this general dynamic. Does anyone have any ideas as to where I can turn?
    Last edited by mikesilb; 12-27-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesilb View Post
    I would love to find a laundry list of companies that have a greater 'alpha-based theme'. I am an ESE (39 y.o.) who is currently on an overly extended job search. I am trained with a Ph.D. in the life sciences and have also done some life coaching and math/science tutoring on the side. However, I am having a killer time having my skills and talent work constructively towards landing a new job. As an alpha, I am a highly enthusiastic guy...truly passionate for life in general. I also have a deeply curious and inquisitive mind that, while is not alpha NT, certainly exhibits a lot of and in general. So, I would love the opportunity to work in an alpha company. It is generally hard because my scientific field has more of a cutthroat, competitive feel to it, and despite the years that it took to obtain a doctorate degree, I am seemingly not able to extend my career in the way that I envisioned it (due to the intense competition and difficulty that I am finding in landing a job). I have quite a lot to contribute to any organization (via my curiosity, enthusiasm, analytic nature, and friendliness), and would love the opportunity to use these gifts towards a valuable career path.

    I know that I have potential to be valued by the types of people that value a more alpha-ish corporate culture and am yearning to find a company that can utilize my scientific and interpersonal background in a way that fits this general dynamic. Does anyone have any ideas as to where I can turn?
    Privatize SETI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    the typical start-up firm that is centered around a groundbreaking idea that blasts open a niche into the market by showing people something they never knew they wanted but did is pretty heavily infused with alpha-esque themes, imo.

    people tend to underestimate the extent to which the alpha mindset matches the spirit of business and capitalism. all the hassle and fuss around making business plans and arranging trades is peripheral rather than central to the basic activity of connecting people to their wants and coming up with the means of providing them.
    It feels like alpha values represent sort of a "hidden agenda" (not the Model A HA! ) that may drive the underlying way that a more gamma-like corporate culture dominates. In other words, connecting people to their wants and providing what people may want certainly feels alpha. However, this feels more like a general undercurrent that still is dominated by a competitive, highly corporate manner by which business is generally conducted.

    As a scientist, I was driven to the field by alpha values such as curiosity, creativity, love of learning, and various options and opportunities. However, my field has become a highly competitive, rat race of people who need to publish papers, grants, etc. at a faster rate than the competition. It has gone totally away from its alpha roots...because money drives it as it drives all business (naturally). It is so much harder to find an alpha driven lab, even in academia because of the (publish-or-perish) demands of professors, post-docs, etc. So even science has more of a gamma feel these days than an alpha one.

    It is certainly good to look at the alpha-ish silver linings of the business world...However, it does not take away the obvious Se and Te leanings that inundate today's corporate climate.
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    It's still somewhat unclear to me as to why a ultra-driven corporate culture is seen as gamma. Perhaps, really perhaps, valid for the very peak subtypes. But, in my experience, the act of creating a corporate "culture" is inherently more beta - I see betas in my life as heavily polarized, either they completely adhere to some alternative counter-culture or they wish to be part of big corporations and rise to the top. Which makes sense from a - - - perspective - you choose an ideology and "stick to it", kind of. Gammas would be more the "networking" type with relatively smaller businesses - ofc some gammas get sucked in typical corporate cultures and end up having to "take up" their values, but I don't think that's the origination.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  30. #30
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    All of the ESEs I know are successful and productive in their business. One is a senior programmer analyst who has always had productive work (His NPD might even help). He is the only disordered one. The others are normal! One now has an extremely successful estate sale business she started with a friend and prior to that she worked booking airline tickets, and prior to that, travel agent, and really was a valued employee at those. All this time she has done an amazing job being an awesome Mom and wife (even though she is married to her conflictor! She has held it all together! And she is a good friend besides that!). Another ESE I know has long worked as a physical therapist, mostly all young children, and is well liked and productive at her work. Also a she is a great Mom and wife. Another has just always worked in stores, now a bank, is well-liked at work and though not a Mom she is an very great wife to her LSI husband. Oh, and I know quite a few elementary teachers who are ESE, also excellent at juggling work and family, all of them.

    And that seems to be a talent I don't have so much of. I prefer to do one thing at a time. I taught, then I was Mom, and did not want to try to combine the two, it just seemed way too much. Perhaps due to E1, I want to do all things well, and its hard to be the "best" when you are trying to do both at once.

    But I began to wear myself out teaching to my own standards, and near the end I needed to change, and I realized that my ESE colleagues, while not "Wow!" at what they did, were in fact very admirable teachers -- and maybe that was what really matters. Being good, not great. The former is essential, the latter has too much ego caught up in it, and ego can get in the way of essential. Especially when it wears you out, as perfection is a relentless taskmaster.

    But the ESEs I know just seem to have an innate talent to at knowing what is the essential. There is a practical grounding to the the ESE, to all the ones I know.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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