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    Default E and I ...

    I am wondering if anyone else has thought of the possibility that E and I are negotiable considering a persons incentive and drive to associate with other people. Say for example, and ENTP can sometimes be and INTP ot vice verse depending on circumstances and motive.

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    The reason I ask this is because I have come to the realization that the chick I thought was ENTJ is more than likely an ENFJ and has put me under what feels like supervision when I am in an introverted mood... ENFJs supervise INTPs ... this was only during a time in which I acted introverted. I have provoked arguments to avoid acting upon her advice or sometimes even orders with the intent of having her get closer.

    However, when I feel more Extraveted it appeared that we were having more of a beneficial relationship where I was in the more favorable position. Hence, she sought out my attention intentionally with her sexual perverbial refrences, actions, and jokes; she can be totally promiscuous at times.

    So, I am strating to wonder if people don't really have one static type, but several types that they have mental prefrences for and sometimes altarnate them back and forth.

    Has anyone else thought of that?

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    I think an ENTP can "act introverted," or quiet/shy/withdrawn/introspective etc. and "seem" INTP, but I don't think that this alters the functions of the person. I am ENTP, and act quiet and withdrawn when I am not stimulated. I am sort of an elitist, so not much in general stimulates me; only certain types of people who are intelligent in specific ways cause me to come out and be myself. When this happens I am quite charming, outgoing, and articulate, or so people tell me. Usually I am bored and act lethargic, and have been told that I always seem a little bit high.

    I also have a tendency to feel inadequate when in my quiet modes, because people do not pay as much attention to me. But it is better to not be a big bullshitter who tries to be sociable just for attention, so I have learned not to. I figure people who don't want to talk to me are probably those whom I would find uninteresting, and experience has proven this to be true.

    So yes, I do think that the infinite amount of difference and variables associated with human beings causes them to act dynamically, which may happen to translate as "ENTP who comes off INTP at certain times."

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    The reason I ask this is because I have come to the realization that the chick I thought was ENTJ is more than likely an ENFJ and has put me under what feels like supervision when I am in an introverted mood... ENFJs supervise INTPs ... this was only during a time in which I acted introverted. I have provoked arguments to avoid acting upon her advice or sometimes even orders with the intent of having her get closer.

    However, when I feel more Extraveted it appeared that we were having a more of a beneficial relationship where I was in the more favorable position. Hence, she sought out my attention intentionally with her sexual perverbial refrences, actions, and jokes. She can be totally promiscuous at times.

    So, I am strating to wonder if people don't really have one static type, but several types that they have mental prefrences for and sometimes altarnate back and forth to.

    Has anyone else thought of that?
    I agree with this. I think something people are going to have to face is that type theory only does finite amounts, and that people are so different and unique that there are always weird exceptions and anomolies that cannot be explained by saying someone is one of sixteen different "types."

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    I recategorized her on my website, she looks more like the other people I have categorized as ENFJs ...

    http://socionics.hopto.org/PROJECTED...ICS/index.html

    But yeah, I think it is more the way that a person chooses to view the world that shapes who they are and vice verse. Sort of a ying/yang effect that affects a person and internally and externally in all sorts of different ways. You can put a theory in the box, but there will always be obvious exceptions.

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    Well Jung said that personality type is just a mask you wear, or something like that, and that they may change or mutate as life goes on. The true self is what the "type" protects.

    At least, I'm pretty sure he said that. hehe

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    Well, that would be the reasonable thing to say afterall.

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    From my understanding everything is "strong" and "weak". So Introversion for an extravert is "weak" and acts as correction, always. Just because a person is quiet doesn't mean they aren't an extravert. They are just an extravert not talking. They still have the same mannerisms and perceive or judge reality the same way.

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    That's correct, wattles ... there are also some pretty loud and outgoing introverts as well as some shy quiet extaverts. I've come to that realiziation ever since I started to type people I know.

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    Default INTps and ENTj's

    where to begin. rmcnew, you describe an INTP-ENXJ relationship which made you unsure of this girl's type. I experienced a very similar relationship (I'm an INTP male, she was most likely an ENTJ female.) The thing about INTP's is that they can at times be very extroverted. That is one thing that characterizes the INTp; under ideal conditions they will come out of their shells and become the life of the party. (duel seeking )

    ENTJ's can be very emotional. Both the males and the females can be hyperactive, although their enthusiasm will show in different ways. the females especially can almost overdo their emotional displays to seem convincing (duel seeking ) The ENTJ female I knew was also very flirtatious and sexually charged, and she responded a lot better to me when I was extroverting than when I was in an introverted mood. When I was extroverted she "wanted me" whereas when quiet and introverted she was "dealing with me."

    To answer your question, no. Everybody has only one type, but introverts are capable of being extroverted and outgoing when they aquire the necessary confidence and have time alone to recharge.

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    Default .

    .................................................. .......

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    The thing is that this girl origionally hit on me at a party when I first met her, so there is some other physical attraction going on there.

    I am still wondering whether I am more I or E, because the ENTP description fits me more than INTP even though I want to be alone sometimes.

    So, I guess I should just say that I have been both ...

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    I am still speculating she is more F than T for the simple fact she is not quite as promiscuous as the other two girls I have typed as ENTJ and is actually far more emotional when dealing with things.

    You can always tell ENTJs frmales apart from other types because of their satanic looking grin and attitude; that's the prime indicator actually.

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    The reason I ask this is because I have come to the realization that the chick I thought was ENTJ is more than likely an ENFJ and has put me under what feels like supervision when I am in an introverted mood... ENFJs supervise INTPs ... this was only during a time in which I acted introverted. I have provoked arguments to avoid acting upon her advice or sometimes even orders with the intent of having her get closer.
    This is a common thing for Relations of Benefit. The Beneficiary tries to give the Benefactor "good" advice, but the Benefactor rather interprets as: "If you do this, you can get this...because your an incompetent pansy who will never amount to as much as I do."

    Yes, you can act introverted. But no, you can never act like an INTp if you're an ENTp. Just try to change your PoLR, your role function, your personal knowledge function, etc. You can act like a pseudo-INTp, but you will always respond to the situation as an ENTp.

    The thing about INTP's is that they can at times be very extroverted. That is one thing that characterizes the INTp; under ideal conditions they will come out of their shells and become the life of the party. (dual seeking )
    Funny though, every time I do that in public, I either come out looking like an idiot or a real asshole. You just hope that the Ne people don't decide to give you their interpretation of what you're doing...


    Your INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    The reason I ask this is because I have come to the realization that the chick I thought was ENTJ is more than likely an ENFJ and has put me under what feels like supervision when I am in an introverted mood... ENFJs supervise INTPs ... this was only during a time in which I acted introverted. I have provoked arguments to avoid acting upon her advice or sometimes even orders with the intent of having her get closer.
    This is a common thing for Relations of Benefit. The Beneficiary tries to give the Benefactor "good" advice, but the Benefactor rather interprets as: "If you do this, you can get this...because your an incompetent pansy who will never amount to as much as I do."
    Hmmm, yeah ... in fact I thought that the next day when she tried telling me with this stern look that some mexican guys could want to beat me up because I looked lazier than she did. I was thinking "who the heck is she to tell me that mexicans can get ticked off at me on account of their own culture"

    So I told her "yeah, I don't ever plan on going to mexico," and then she goes on this long sympathetic spiel about how what she said had nothing to do with culture and I would look lazy in any culture because it looked like she was working more than me.

    I just sat there and let her talk because I just assumed after that point that she should stop working because I was finished working.

    The thing about INTP's is that they can at times be very extroverted. That is one thing that characterizes the INTp; under ideal conditions they will come out of their shells and become the life of the party. (dual seeking )
    Funny though, every time I do that in public, I either come out looking like an idiot or a real asshole. You just hope that the Ne people don't decide to give you their interpretation of what you're doing...
    [/quote]

    I actually honestly feel very extraverted, the only problem is that I end up isolated sometimes on account that I feel like people don't like me when they probably do or people get annoyed with me because of conflicting habits and doing things out of norm and I seperate myself. I don't think INTPs are introverts for that reason; INTPs could be introverts because they might feel that way naturally and internally or want to be ,and not necessarily because they are forced by other people or outside influences.

    That's what I feel is the diffrence between the ENTP and the INTP ... the ENTP is forced to be isolated sometimes because of an expedient lifestyle and the INTP becomes isolated because of who they are or because of internal issues, not from an external means with the ENTP who can otherwise associate with other extraverts on their level.

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    Bottom line: There are aspects of the ENTP and INTP profiles that fit me. Things having to do with behavior. Therefor I do act like both types at different times.

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    Yes, me too disco joe ... though by description I am 100% ENTP and maybe 25% INTP. I am assuming it is probably the same for you.

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    Here is what fits me in the two profiles:

    ENTPs normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers. They often have rounded shoulders. Their nose is often projected or elongated. Sometimes ENTPs have a characteristic inwardly sloping chin that smoothly converts to the neck while the upper jaw is more prominent. Because of their particular physical structure their clothes always seem to fit pretty badly, often slipping down and hanging off them in an unflattering manner. Their buttons also seem to have a habit of falling off.

    ENTPs usually have a distant, far away look in their eyes and it often seems as though they are paying little attention to what is going on. During conversation ENTPs like to play with objects, like a pen for example, often accidentally breaking it. They may gesticulate when passionately telling a story.

    ENTPs do not know how to keep the right psychological distance with people. This becomes especially noticeable during long term interaction. One day they can be friendly and the next day they can be completely opposite. They often behave unceremoniously and can rudely butt in on others conversations. ENTPs can also find it difficult to evaluate how others feel about them and therefore can make mistakes when choosing friends.

    ENTPs like to explore everything and are usually completely unaware of how others react to this. They often propose ideas that although have great potential are completely impractical at the time. As usual, they soon forget about that idea and generate a new one, which has no less potential and originality but has no logical connection with the previous. ENTPs pay little or no respect to their past achievements. They hardly ever admit when they are at fault. Even if they apologise formally they usually continue to behave the same as before.

    ENTPs are interested in and talk about everything that is new and unusual even if it is not in their main field of knowledge. It is as if they are magnetised by all brand new theories and are fascinated by all phenomena that can not be explained with logic or reason, for example: ESP, telekinesis and UFO's. They cannot logically explain their ideas as they are always intuitive and vague. Most people cannot fully comprehend their concepts, they simply believe or do not believe.

    The main peculiarity of ENTPs behaviour is an incredible absent-mindedness. They usually leave items where they used them and have a tendency to constantly lose smaller objects. ENTPs work place and personal belongings are often kept in disarray. They invariably forget what they have already done and what they need to do. However, they are quick and shrewd in day to day matters, taking advantage of every opportunity that arises. Because of this others may consider them to be crafty or shifty.

    The other main peculiarity of ENTPs behaviour is the ability to mobilise in extreme conditions. If somebody puts pressure on them they immediately counterattack, often with more than equal force. They also like to give people advice on how to extricate themselves from difficult entanglements, often proposing the most radical solutions. If ENTPs are not interested in a particular job, they try to leave it until the last moment. Then in very short period of time they can complete all awaiting jobs, but of course the quality suffers.

    One more peculiarity is the element of chaos and destruction that ENTPs bring to every field of their activity. This is especially noticeable in well established institutions where strong discipline is commonplace. However, they implement this chaotic element creatively, generating reform from the destruction. Because of this quality ENTPs often become leaders.
    And in the INTP profile:

    INTPs often have a characteristic round-shouldered posture. Their necks are often not as well proportioned as other types and their heads seem to strain forwards. Their eyes have a sorrowful look about them as if they are about to be victimised in some way. Their lips are usually not very expressive or defined. Their noses are somewhat aquiline in shape which combined with often flattened cheekbones giving the false impression that their noses are large.

    During conversation INTPs may project their lower lips forward. INTPs often show poor control of their lower jaw, allowing them to hang down. INTPs normal facial expressions usually reflect wisdom and great life experience or sadness and victimisation. Although INTPs are introverts, some of them may behave in a very extroverted manner.

    INTPs with more developed aesthetic taste are neat and tidy. They look after their clothes which they know well how to compose and combine. When they interact with others they are softly spoken and unobtrusive, leaving others the impression that they are intelligent and educated. When asking someone for something, they usually do it in such a way as to rarely be denied.

    INTPs with less developed aesthetic taste usually look like they are not bothered about their appearance. Their clothes are often old and worn and their footwear may be in a bad condition. When interacting with others they may be very active, pushy and sometimes even aggressive. They often do not obey the norms of politeness and may sometime be rough and vulgar, however this behaviour usually does not last a long time.

    When INTPs speak publicly they habitually adopt a slow, monotone speech pattern. This may have a sleep inducing hypnotic effect on their audience. INTPs are good at noticing contradictions in theories or opinions and can focus others attention to this. They are able to predict short term forthcoming events in both visual and associative forms. Through observation and their own experiences INTPs can create a precise model of others behaviour allowing INTPs to predict peoples next moves. They often amaze and interest people with this quality.

    INTPs are very sceptical to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm. They try to keep others from being passionate as they consider strong emotions to be harmful. INTPs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters. For example, they may wash their hands more often than others do. They pay a lot attention to hygiene and sanitation.

    INTPs are often active in business and commercial matters. They have good abilities to quickly calculate profit. Usually they are relaxed and only undertake projects that show considerable return and profit. They are not afraid to run big businesses. Usually INTPs are very economical. They do not like to make presents or lend money to others. Because of this quality they usually try to appear poorer than they actually are. However when it comes to spending money on themselves, they can be very generous.

    INTPs usually work slowly, paying a lot of attention to detail. In their activities they show a strict logic, that can sometimes become very pedantic and scrupulous. INTPs may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving.
    As you can see, even though I am mostly ENTP, there is a generous chunk of the INTP profile that applies to me.

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    Yeah, I would say that we are both definatelly ENTPs ...

    ENTPs normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers. They often have rounded shoulders. Their nose is often projected or elongated. Sometimes ENTPs have a characteristic inwardly sloping chin that smoothly converts to the neck while the upper jaw is more prominent. Because of their particular physical structure their clothes always seem to fit pretty badly, often slipping down and hanging off them in an unflattering manner. Their buttons also seem to have a habit of falling off.


    Everything else:

    ENTPs usually have a distant, far away look in their eyes and it often seems as though they are paying little attention to what is going on. During conversation ENTPs like to play with objects, like a pen for example, often accidentally breaking it. They may gesticulate when passionately telling a story.

    ENTPs do not know how to keep the right psychological distance with people. This becomes especially noticeable during long term interaction. One day they can be friendly and the next day they can be completely opposite. They often behave unceremoniously and can rudely butt in on others conversations. ENTPs can also find it difficult to evaluate how others feel about them and therefore can make mistakes when choosing friends.

    ENTPs like to explore everything and are usually completely unaware of how others react to this. They often propose ideas that although have great potential are completely impractical at the time. As usual, they soon forget about that idea and generate a new one, which has no less potential and originality but has no logical connection with the previous. ENTPs pay little or no respect to their past achievements. They hardly ever admit when they are at fault. Even if they apologise formally they usually continue to behave the same as before.

    ENTPs are interested in and talk about everything that is new and unusual even if it is not in their main field of knowledge. It is as if they are magnetised by all brand new theories and are fascinated by all phenomena that can not be explained with logic or reason, for example: ESP, telekinesis and UFO's. They cannot logically explain their ideas as they are always intuitive and vague. Most people cannot fully comprehend their concepts, they simply believe or do not believe.

    The main peculiarity of ENTPs behaviour is an incredible absent-mindedness. They usually leave items where they used them and have a tendency to constantly lose smaller objects. ENTPs work place and personal belongings are often kept in disarray. They invariably forget what they have already done and what they need to do. However, they are quick and shrewd in day to day matters, taking advantage of every opportunity that arises. Because of this others may consider them to be crafty or shifty.

    The other main peculiarity of ENTPs behaviour is the ability to mobilise in extreme conditions. If somebody puts pressure on them they immediately counterattack, often with more than equal force. They also like to give people advice on how to extricate themselves from difficult entanglements, often proposing the most radical solutions. If ENTPs are not interested in a particular job, they try to leave it until the last moment. Then in very short period of time they can complete all awaiting jobs, but of course the quality suffers.

    One more peculiarity is the element of chaos and destruction that ENTPs bring to every field of their activity. This is especially noticeable in well established institutions where strong discipline is commonplace. However, they implement this chaotic element creatively, generating reform from the destruction. Because of this quality ENTPs often become leaders.
    INTPs often have a characteristic round-shouldered posture. Their necks are often not as well proportioned as other types and their heads seem to strain forwards. Their eyes have a sorrowful look about them as if they are about to be victimised in some way. Their lips are usually not very expressive or defined. Their noses are somewhat aquiline in shape which combined with often flattened cheekbones giving the false impression that their noses are large.

    During conversation INTPs may project their lower lips forward. INTPs often show poor control of their lower jaw, allowing them to hang down. INTPs normal facial expressions usually reflect wisdom and great life experience or sadness and victimisation. Although INTPs are introverts, some of them may behave in a very extroverted manner.

    INTPs with more developed aesthetic taste are neat and tidy. They look after their clothes which they know well how to compose and combine. When they interact with others they are softly spoken and unobtrusive, leaving others the impression that they are intelligent and educated. When asking someone for something, they usually do it in such a way as to rarely be denied.

    INTPs with less developed aesthetic taste usually look like they are not bothered about their appearance. Their clothes are often old and worn and their footwear may be in a bad condition. When interacting with others they may be very active, pushy and sometimes even aggressive. They often do not obey the norms of politeness and may sometime be rough and vulgar, however this behaviour usually does not last a long time.


    When INTPs speak publicly they habitually adopt a slow, monotone speech pattern. This may have a sleep inducing hypnotic effect on their audience. INTPs are good at noticing contradictions in theories or opinions and can focus others attention to this. They are able to predict short term forthcoming events in both visual and associative forms. Through observation and their own experiences INTPs can create a precise model of others behaviour allowing INTPs to predict peoples next moves. They often amaze and interest people with this quality.

    INTPs are very sceptical to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm. They try to keep others from being passionate as they consider strong emotions to be harmful. INTPs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters. For example, they may wash their hands more often than others do. They pay a lot attention to hygiene and sanitation.

    INTPs are often active in business and commercial matters. They have good abilities to quickly calculate profit. Usually they are relaxed and only undertake projects that show considerable return and profit. They are not afraid to run big businesses. Usually INTPs are very economical. They do not like to make presents or lend money to others. Because of this quality they usually try to appear poorer than they actually are. However when it comes to spending money on themselves, they can be very generous.

    INTPs usually work slowly, paying a lot of attention to detail. In their activities they show a strict logic, that can sometimes become very pedantic and scrupulous. INTPs may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving.

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    I don't know about the physical description, but people have told me I look ENTP ...

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