View Poll Results: Which one?

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  • sp/so

    6 46.15%
  • sp/sx

    6 46.15%
  • sx/so

    0 0%
  • sx/sp

    1 7.69%
  • so/sp

    0 0%
  • so/sx

    0 0%
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Thread: Fen's Enneagram Type Poll

  1. #1
    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Default Fen's Enneagram Type Poll

    Any thoughts?
    I've been typed every instinct under the sun, and the more I research, the more unsure I get.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    slightly leaning sp/sx over sp/so. I don't think any others make sense to consider for you. my two pennies.

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    @squark - I like your avatar. Is it leonid afremov?
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    squark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    @squark - I like your avatar. Is it leonid afremov?
    it is. I looked him up after you posted those pics in lungs' art thread.

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    it is. I looked him up after you posted those pics in lungs' art thread.
    <3 <3
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    @fenryrr

    What type do you think you are?
    Why do you think you are that type?
    Do you consider enneagram important?
    Do you think instinctual stackings help the enneagram?

    The reason I ask is because you seem (?ed?) to have an issue with my vote on the poll. I explained my reasons for it: You seem fairly certain that you are sp first which is reasonable, however sp/sx is a lone wolf character, you don't strike me as having that sort of behaviour. A clear sp/sx typing is a fairly easy combination to spot; I tend to come under a soft sp/sx which can make me appear as sx/sp to those who I am close to.

    Sp/sx was traditionally defined in typewatch as an 'ascetic' type being focused on self discipline. Sx/sp almost as 'seductive' - shows emotion then withdraws.

    How we used to define Sp/so was one of material and societal security and tended to be self moderating rather than extreme in sticking to ideas or paradigms. They tend to enjoy being benefactors in providing the needs of those around them in work and in their personal life.

    sp/soc

    This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society's practical needs.

    sp/sx

    These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant's surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.


    The other comment would be that you seem to reject any references to common definitions under the guise of 'don't like it'; which is fine; but you haven't provided your own viewpoint or 'acceptable' terms of reference. How do we reach a understanding of the problem without drawing on a baseline reference point?
    Last edited by InvisibleJim; 11-22-2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    squark's Avatar
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    Jim, look at the stackings for the particular type in question, as while the umbrella stackings are a general ballpark they're far more flavored by the base type than you're taking into account.

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    I voted you as sp/so fen, but I think sp/sx is just as likely. The only thing that seems clear to me is that you're sp first imo. I guess deciphering between the two comes down to whether you prefer having few close friendships or many aquaintances, but of course that is only one aspect of it.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Nope, no thoughts here. Eneagram is really hard to notice no matter what anyone says. It's sorta a thing you just have to figure out for yourself.
    Easy Day

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    I'm settling on sp/sx. I just don't buy being sx last over so last. @Raver - Definitely few close relationships as I am very guarded against acquaintances as a general rule and am not fond of bouncing from person to person for light-hearted conversations. Can't be myself except around like 2 people and I probably come off as disinterested to most people. But I can't push myself to act in ways that would prove I'm not that way...so.. I wouldn't be surprised if people who don't know me think I'm standoffish or cold or something, because I probably appear that way to a lot of people, unless I'm interacting with someone I am very close to. Then I probably appear quite the opposite.

    A good example is my interaction with my roommates who I am still getting to know, and will probably never be very close with. They spend a lot of time in the living room watching tv, talking, sharing things they find online. I don't spend a lot of time out there because I don't like being expected to really care about that stuff, because I don't. This all might sound cynical or something, but I'm perfectly happy right now. But anyway...when I am out there, I am usually doing my own thing on my laptop, watching what they are watching if I find it interesting, and I usually keep any comments I have to myself. Man do I sound introverted. Hah.

    But yeah, to sum it up -- I know I may appear disinterested and cold and boring even. And it does bother me a bit because I don't think I'm any of those things once I get close to a person. But I don't really care enough to keep up appearances. And this is why I'm opting for sp/sx > sp/so.
    @siuntal - In the past you remarked that I VI sp/so in this picture:


    This might be because I don't feel connected to the people I'm with (my roommates). I was very detached from them and their expectation of me smiling with my teeth for the picture so that I "look like I want to be there". I do tend to make that expression for pictures, though. Virtually every picture of me has me smiling with pursed lips like that. If anything this says so-last to me, but I'm curious of what you interpret it to mean.
    I also have this terrible habit of smiling downwards like in my profile picture for the forum and here:

    I don't really understand it. Hah.
    Anyway..
    Last edited by fen; 11-28-2012 at 09:11 AM.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    @fenryrr - Thanks for the response fen, I can relate to what you are saying very well. Based on what you said about how you interact with people in general, sp/sx would be a better fit then sp/so.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    You can't VI as an instinct stacking, fenryrr. It only is going to come out in interaction, based on what you do and say, it's just me and I can be wrong, but that's what I think so far. Anyhow, have you tried that test?

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Yes @Absurd. It told me I was a 6.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    Yes @Absurd. It told me I was a 6.
    Well, I'm going to get back to this when I get back.

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    Phthalate's Avatar
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    sp/so
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phthalate View Post
    sp/so
    Y u change your mind
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    Y u change your mind
    As @InvisibleJim brought up... sp/sx and sx/sp are the type who are characterized by having this 'lone-wolf' characteristic.

    That isn't you.
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    @Phthalate - Well sx last doesn't really make sense either.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    @Phthalate - Well sx last doesn't really make sense either.
    How so?

    Remember that sx last does not mean non-sx.
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phthalate View Post
    How so?

    Remember that sx last does not mean non-sx.
    Because my level of care for being established in some social construct is zero. Which I have detailed in a previous post.
    And I can't say the same for sx-related things. At all.

    I'd be interested to hear a good argument for sp/so, but I've yet to really see one. All I keep getting is "you aren't mean" more or less. I don't think this should be appointed based solely on exclusion of certain stackings, but the comparison of them.

    Edit: and sx-last is sx-blind spot. So yes, it is "non-sx".
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


  22. #22
    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Also, I feel like the effect of the E-type on a stacking isn't really being considered.

    Anyway, I will compare the two.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Sp/Sx - Likely to neglect their desire to seek intense connections and experiences for the sake of their primary concern of maintaining physical saftey, comfort, and an orderly lifestyle, in average-healthy levels. May not have an awareness of the need to connect in a broader sense with the world, of a sense of security or in groups or of the need to seek it, or even of the need to foster approval, support, and understanding of themselves within groups they are connected with, often causing misunderstandings with allies, supporters, friends, and family members.

    I have issues with my family because I don't really consider us a family. I don't even really know what family means, but the obligations of what "family" is are annoying to me, and I don't enjoy having to fit whatever expectations go along with that establishment. I do see the importance of family but I'm not very good at establishing or maintaining it. This tendency of mine probably annoys Ben more than anyone in my life. And he is probably sp/so or so/sp in my opinion. And he often lectures me about it. A good example is...his parents like his hair short. And he explains that he cuts his hair just to keep peace with them because they are his family. And I find that whole incentive to cut your hair absurd.

    Sp/So - Likely to neglect their desire to build their sense of personal value, accomplishment, and security of place with others for the sake of their primary concern of maintaining physical safey, comfort, and an orderly lifestyle, in average-healthy levels. May not have an awareness of the need to stimulate the mind or emotions, of a sense of deep excitement or enthusiasm, of a need for intimate experiences, of the need for the unfamiliar. May fall into routines and, despite social connection, may feel a strange disconnection even from spouses, friends, and family.
    ------------
    Self-Preservation Primary / Social Support
    "The Withdrawn Submissive"

    Expression: withdrawn calm, smiley expression
    Energy: calm, steady energy expressed outward
    Behavior: withdrawn, calm, smiley and submissive
    Mindset: "If I can maintain position and inclusion in the group/world, I can make sure of and keep my orderly and pleasing lifestyle." (May try to be just appealing and connected with groups enough for everyone to get out of their hair. )
    Examples: Raymond (Everybody Loves Raymond)

    I don't think like that at all. That isn't my motivation for being accommodating and 9-ish. I explained in a previous post that I recognize my disconnection from groups, but that I don't really do anything to change it, because I don't consider it worth my energy. I honestly disappear in groups, and rather end up just talking to one person, or no one at all. And that suits me fine.

    ---------------------------------------

    Self-Preservation Primary / Sexual Support
    "Beautiful Dreamer"

    Expression: wistful self-absorbed expression, sighing, magic is in their head
    Energy: calm, steady energy expressed intensely, withdrawing
    Behavior: withdrawn, calm, wistful and self absorbed
    Mindset: "I can have merging/intensity without having to leave my orderly & pleasing lifestyle." (imagination, safe people and relationships, when the safety of these are challenged they withdraw)
    Examples: Alanis Morisette, Amelie (Amelie)
    Last edited by fen; 11-30-2012 at 02:00 AM.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


  23. #23
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relicquery
    Hi, my name is relicquery and I'm a sp/so. I know I'm not a sp/sx because I care more about securing my legacy than I do about attracting my soulmate. I'm not good with intensity. In fact, it scares me. I may be socially awkward, but I am at least aware of the fact that I don't fit in, and I try to work around it. If I was sp/sx, I think I would probably not care about how socially retarded I am.

    I am self-contained. People don't usually know what's going on inside me. I try to keep a polite exterior (though this fails when I'm overwhelmed). I think if I was sp/sx, I would not come across as dry and courteous. I might seem as moody as I feel.

    If I was sp/sx, I would not spend all my energy trying to stabilize my life. I would spend more of it on things I like to do. Things I really want to do. If I was sp/sx, I might be able to act on my impulses. As sp/so, I often have to fight to not squash my impulses as they arise.

    Sometimes communication is difficult because I don't know what I ought to say. I think if I was sp/sx, I would not care about what I ought to say. I might not freeze up trying to think of the "right" answer.

    As a sp/so, I want to tread lightly and not be noticed much. I think if I was sp/sx, I would be more inclined to shake things up and make a fuss. (Sp/so does not like fusses.)

    Right now, I am making this post because I want to help the general knowledge available about the category of people within the "sp/so" label. I think if I was sp/sx, I might be making this post in order to express myself and have an impact on someone.
    Is this a useful contribution to this thread? Maybe not, but it frames a lot of my thoughts regarding sp/sx and sp/so.

    By contrast sp/sx is very much a whimsical, impulsive and reactively confrontational/agreeable depending on their interpretation of the the current situation: but always socially blunt.

    I also fail to generate any sort of idea of an enneagram 9 with sp/sx; probably because I'm a dumbass.

    The enneagram 9 is described as being both anxious of discord and therefore settles with maintaining a peaceful environment as opposed to 'shaking things up'. I'm sure there is a enneagram 9 sp/sx description somewhere; but since the theory is basically 'here's some nice archetypes' I wouldn't assume there is an even distribution of types nor of instinctual stackings vs type.

    There is another comment regarding distribution: Who is to say a person cannot maintain a reasonably balanced secondary instinctual stacking somewhere between sp/sx and sp/so or almost exactly between.

    If that is true then only the type descriptions for 'general sp' would be applicable.

    Therefore I think for now I'm content with

    Quote Originally Posted by Summary
    Fenryrr is an enneagram 9. enneagram 9s seem to be more sx/so as a matter of course, however this would be a hasty generalisation to apply to Fenryrr who appears to be sp/balanced
    Last edited by InvisibleJim; 11-30-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  24. #24
    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    bear in mind that the original idea of subtypes was limited to 3, not 6. the sub-sub type is only an extension.
    anyway, i like these notes siuntal took from naranjo's lectures, they're quite insightful.

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    9 self-pres - Appetite. Sancho Panza. I eat therefore I am. I sleep, I have, I want creature comforts. No metaphysical level of thinking. Can't talk about Being. Substitution of bottle for mother's breast was so complete that they are fused with their body. "Homo economicus" - the double chinned banker. Very practical people.

    9 social - Jolly good fellow. Light hearted, merry. Passion of participation, to feel a part of. Doesn't feel a part of to begin with, feels doesn't have what it takes to fit. Very mindful of group "other"; they fuse with the group. Good leader, unselfish, sacrificial. Passion of paying for ticket to group admission. Workaholic. Believes not to show pain or weigh others down with own woes.

    9 sexual - Union/fusion/symbiosis/confluence. Needs to be through another. Fuses with one other. Use relationship to feed your being because you don't stand on your own 2 feet - stands through the other. Suspicious tenderness. Nobodies, not living with passion. Too dispassionate. "Nowhere Man". Not noticable - wallflower. Erased from family picture. "She eats but no one has seen her chew." Betrays own needs.
    going by how you present yourself on the forum, you would fit so and sx moreso than sp, at least superficially. but i wouldn't be surprised if you related more to the sp description here. pick two you think are most embarrassing and they can be your sub and sub-sub types.

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    I often wonder if instinctual variants should be their own theory; quite seperate from the enneagram.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    I don't think like that at all. That isn't my motivation for being accommodating and 9-ish. I explained in a previous post that I recognize my disconnection from groups, but that I don't really do anything to change it, because I don't consider it worth my energy. I honestly disappear in groups, and rather end up just talking to one person, or no one at all. And that suits me fine.
    If you take a look at the Oceanmoonshine profile of sp/so-9s, it is word-for-word repeating what you have described here of yourself.

    9-SP/SO: This subtype is the most self-effacing of type Nine, possibly the least assertive of all the enneagram types. They can feel as though they have been looked over and passed by. While they do desire attention and recognition, with the sexual instinct last in the stacking, they seldom actively pursue it. They feel as though it’s just not worth it. This subtype is usually very deliberate and methodical in their speech. They sometimes get frustrated because they don’t feel that they can say what they really want to say. They are therefore often very short and concise with their communication, not wanting to provoke any confrontation. But when given a chance and the time to express themselves, they can be quite talkative. While self-pres needs are important to this type, the fact that they are essentially Nines, sometimes causes them to put the needs of others before their own. When under stress, this type is likely to do busy work, anything that distracts them from their problems.

    It is the valued social instinct that grants this ability to blend into your social surroundings. In contrast to so/sp-9, the sp/sx-9 is described to be more "assertive", or it would be more accurate to say more likely to draw attention to themselves. May be you have never noticed it because it comes to you so naturally, but there are people out there who cannot blend in well with others no matter what they do. They have no innate sense of how to accomplish this and they lack awareness that it is a necessity in the first place. This is why social-lasts may appear socially ungracious and undiplomatic, or even downright contentions and crass, and that's just not you. In fact this sort of behavior seems to bother you and you try to suppress it.

    Here is something that was written by one of the enneagram forum regulars who has achieved a semi-celebrity status on EIDB board, self-typed as sp/sx 9:

    Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 09:56:23 AM
    Sp/sx also has an inverted narcissism (perhaps distorted exhibitionism is more accurate). There's an impulse to open the raincoat and reveal cancerous lesions covering the torso and genitalia. Festering wounds with a stench. It sometimes seems to be a challenge issued around deep, deep bonding: This is me; How real are you willing to be? Psychic nudity/revelation that, in itself, threatens the sp/sx with self-destruction....or at least social self-destruction, which is part of the distilling process toward the one-to-one uber-bond. There's an element of all that with sx in general but sp/sx, in this mode, prefers it truly organically grotesque, leaving a stain and a scar that's hard to interpret.

    You can see this sort of drive of "psychic nudity/revelation" as dfgray puts it in hitta's psycho-sexual analyses, hitta being a model example of someone of sp/sx stacking, as well as in comedy of Louis C.K., another sp/sx, in instances when he gets on stage in front of million of viewers and speaks of himself and his wife having sex and the fights he gets into with his children. You in comparison have a much lighter, cleaner 'vibe' and don't engage in these kinds of 'expositions'.

    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    I have issues with my family because I don't really consider us a family. I don't even really know what family means, but the obligations of what "family" is are annoying to me, and I don't enjoy having to fit whatever expectations go along with that establishment. I do see the importance of family but I'm not very good at establishing or maintaining it. This tendency of mine probably annoys Ben more than anyone in my life. And he is probably sp/so or so/sp in my opinion. And he often lectures me about it. A good example is...his parents like his hair short. And he explains that he cuts his hair just to keep peace with them because they are his family. And I find that whole incentive to cut your hair absurd.
    Which is strange considering that sp/sx's make for good homemakers and housewifes with their primary sp instinct oriented as domesticity and the secondary instinct at emotional closeness. My family is full of people with either sp/sx or sp/so stackings and from what I have observed it is the people of sp/so stackings who are less aware of the 'blood' ties and sp/sx are the ones who are more likely to sacrifice for the family and do things that they otherwise wouldn't want to do. However, while they often cultivate close familial ties, sp/sx's face an entirely different problem - they hesitate to venture out (so-last) and thus become completely encrusted within their small world and lose awareness of what's happening beyond its confines. Thus, the issue of sp/sx is that they have to push against the diminutive force of sx feeding into sp that is constantly working to shrink their sphere of awareness, otherwise they end up hollowing themselves out. This is why sp/sx is referred to as the most "regressive" one out of the six.

    I don't see that kind of diminution happening with you, neither does the bit on "psychic" nudity apply, so I highly question that you are of sp/sx stacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    siuntal - In the past you remarked that I VI sp/so in this picture:
    yes, I have commented that when I noticed that on photos you resemble Galen's sp/so face composite the closest, as well as Lykke Li whom I typed as Fi-IEE sp/so, lots of semblance there




    If you want to compare yourself to some other famous examples of people of sp/so and sp/sx stackings here are few videos of each:

    Björk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKMIlsoevU
    Twiggy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOWu0BlyVFU
    Matthew Bellamy from Muse (Muse is very sp/so music) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mesIUG3kI

    A few videos of sp/sx for comparison:

    Aubrey Plaza - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTgNf3P8O8s
    Louis C.K. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjNgNDZzH5o
    Kevin Hart - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xxXI4NkhZ0

    Another little tip about your instinct stacking, if you take a look at what your avatar is communicating using the associative interpretations of instincts transcribed from the enneagram boards: Soc = air & sunlight, Sx = fire, electricity, Sp = earth, matter, you avatar picture features a density in the middle (sp) surrounded by empty space and air (so)
    Last edited by silke; 12-06-2012 at 02:25 AM.

  27. #27
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Big thing that stuck in my mind @fenryrr is when you blew up on @lungs about her tumblr being full of graphic ripping death without any semblance of beauty, and I quickly drew parallels between that and how, though we're both into lots of what'll fall under the death metal umbrella, you'll gravitate towards stuff like this or this, whereas I'll head for stuff like this or this. Then came to mind was that huge Enneagram stacking thing @siuntal linked, that, in addition to having sp/sx having a more earthy and deathy vibe than most any other stacking, and by consequence sp/so, there was this in particular:

    Quote Originally Posted by enemagram thing
    sp/sx also has an inverted narcissism (perhaps distorted exhibitionism is more accurate). There's an impulse to open the raincoat and reveal cancerous lesions covering the torso and genitalia. Festering wounds with a stench. It sometimes seems to be a challenge issued around deep, deep bonding: This is me; How real are you willing to be? Psychic nudity/revelation that, in itself, threatens the sp/sx with self-destruction....or at least social self-destruction, which is part of the distilling process toward the one-to-one uber-bond. There's an element of all that with sx in general but sp/sx, in this mode, prefers it truly organically grotesque, leaving a stain and a scar that's hard to interpret.

    sp/sx has a self-undermining undertow current. That slow slurping sucking sound in the basement. Curls them into themselves, and actually away from outer resources (soc-world). The lack of air makes the pool stagnant; it festers, expands/ferments, gets hotter and hotter.
    You come off pretty removed from this, and the discordance you noticed between you and @k0rpsy and you and @Radio feels like it could be largely covered under the whole stacking differences thing, with them as so last, and you as totally not so last. The whole directness versus diplomacy, heaviness versus airiness, all that good stuff. I gotta go pass out for a few hours now, hope this turned out usable...

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