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Thread: Ron Paul Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!

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    Yay!

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    Mark my words: The United States will experience a devastating financial crisis, in 2014, worse than the Great Depression, when Europe fixes its mess with the Euro and the BRICK countries decide to use the Chinese yuan as the reserve currency, not the US dollar. Prepare yourselves now intelligently.

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    The doom of USA has started
    By new Health Care regulation, the Government of United States of America is taking over absolute control over the health (read: life) of each American citizen. This means that the lives of all Americans are now subject of governmental decisions and plans. Don't know about you, but to me it all looks like "how would it be if Hitler won" stuff.
    An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Frazer, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis, IN ) . Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser


    Senator Bayh,

    As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

    I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.

    Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!
    Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
    Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
    Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
    Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
    Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)
    Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)
    Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
    Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
    Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!
    Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)
    Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
    Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
    Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)
    Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.
    Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.
    Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)
    Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
    Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
    Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
    Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
    Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)
    Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)
    Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
    Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected)
    Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)
    Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

    Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.
    Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
    Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
    Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).

    Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.
    Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)
    Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
    Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)
    Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
    Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)
    Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!
    Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)
    Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)
    Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
    Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)
    Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)
    Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.
    Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)
    Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)
    Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end - of-life! (Again -- no choice!)
    Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)
    Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
    Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.


    Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

    Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Mark my words: The United States will experience a devastating financial crisis, in 2014, worse than the Great Depression, when Europe fixes its mess with the Euro and the BRICK countries decide to use the Chinese yuan as the reserve currency, not the US dollar. Prepare yourselves now intelligently.
    You want to bet on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    You want to bet on it?
    I already am betting on it with my investments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    You want to bet on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    I already am betting on it with my investments.
    How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I went to one of his movies last year, was just a spur of the moment thing since it was the only movie they had that day

    worst desicion I ever made, it was like I'm in the 80's or something, seriously fucked up visuals, directing, acting, storytelling, you name it

    I didn't know he still made movies

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    Yes, yes.

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    I just want to say that keep up the fight. I have been spreading a lot of Ron Paul material around hoping that it would go forth, eventually finding it's way to some American voters. The first Republican I have found sensible in a long time.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I think Republicans would be more palatable in general—and winning more elections—if they'd just tell the evangelical/religious right to go fuck themselves, and adopt more moderate social policies aligned with what most voters want—e.g., stop with the "abortion should banned" and "no gay marriage ever" rhetoric.
    I'm not sure would it work like that but I am not denying it. "Family values" and social policies implied there are the biggest reasons I'd rather sit in a table full of Democrats than a table full of Republicans.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I think Republicans would be more palatable in general—and winning more elections—if they'd just tell the evangelical/religious right to go fuck themselves, and adopt more moderate social policies aligned with what most voters want—e.g., stop with the "abortion should banned" and "no gay marriage ever" rhetoric.
    Yeah I was kind of hoping that would be the take-away of losing this election for the Republican party, that they would realize that their devotion to social issues is more of a hindrance than a help. If they were more laissez-faire on those kind of things, i.e. seeing them as something more to be decided on the state level, then I think they would be far more successful. I was also kind of hoping that because the margin of victory was so narrow that it would also mean Obama administration part deux would move more to the middle on the economy in the workout of a deal. The stickler looks like raising taxes on the wealthy, which would be like ripping the still beating heart out of the Norquist bunch. Even if they offered up complete tax reform and major entitlement overhaul I'm still not sure they'd budge on tax rates. I'm guessing the final result will have to be some hoodoo-voodoo magic that increases revenues without changing the tax rate number.

    But back to the original point, I would probably vote Republican if they ditched social issues and were just a tad less bullish on trickle down.
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    It's just that you'll catch more attention by opposing drugs and gay marriage than by advocating freedoms.

    "There's this non-violence principle and lower taxation. You know, live and let live."
    vs.
    "Homosexuals are ruining Umerica and if they could get married the holy institution of marriage would be broken and nazis would ride on dinosaurs once again"
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    How so?
    If I'm bearish on the U.S. dollar and skeptical of U.S.-dollar earners to repay their debts, then I'm bullish on both real assets and international currencies. I want to make sure I have a strong, growing income, as opposed to a weak, diminishing one.

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    Ron Paul is one of the few politicians speaking the truth, too bad only a minority of people are actually paying attention to what he's saying.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    If I'm bearish on the U.S. dollar and skeptical of U.S.-dollar earners to repay their debts, then I'm bullish on both real assets and international currencies. I want to make sure I have a strong, growing income, as opposed to a weak, diminishing one.
    Did you short the euro yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Ron Paul is one of the few politicians speaking the truth, too bad only a minority of people are actually paying attention to what he's saying.
    Ron Paul is one of the few politicians with such an extensive history of open racism and yet still enjoys significant support.
    http://www.mrdestructo.com/2011/12/g...-ron-paul.html

    But perhaps his attraction stems from how corrupt he is as a politician, as page 150 of this recent report finds?
    http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/page...12.pdf?nocdn=1
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    One day we will have politicians focused on good governance rather than implementing social policy. Not today, but one day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa Rob View Post
    Ron Paul is one of the few politicians with such an extensive history of open racism and yet still enjoys significant support.
    http://www.mrdestructo.com/2011/12/g...-ron-paul.html

    But perhaps his attraction stems from how corrupt he is as a politician, as page 150 of this recent report finds?
    http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/page...12.pdf?nocdn=1
    Maybe this is true or not as I cannot say for sure from online articles though I did hear it mentioned on the news before. If he is a racist, it still doesn't negate the truth he says about the economy and the country, but of course if it is true then it does make me lose respect for him as a person. As for his corruption, I can't imagine him being any more or less corrupt than your average politican.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    I'm sorry, but I scanned some of that literature in the link that exposes Ron Paul's alleged racism and I either didn't look deeply enough or I was just missing the racist parts. Either way, it doesn't really bother me if he were because I never endorsed him, or anyone, as candidate of anything due to my personal objections to statism and the practice of democracy. Though I do find him likeable for his promotion of Austrian economics, I wouldn't be surprised if this were because he may have supported the Confederacy in the Revolution, or has a bone to pick with the Abraham Lincoln lovers. This is a common avenue for alleging some of the Vienna school's most prominent figureheads are racist, including Llewellyn H. "Lew" Rockwell, Jr., anarcho-libertarian blogger and the current Chairman & CEO of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Auburn, Alabama. It's worth noting that Ron Paul is also listed as a Senior Fellow and Distinguished Counselor at the same institute.
    Last edited by Capitalist Pig; 11-19-2012 at 05:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    If I'm bearish on the U.S. dollar and skeptical of U.S.-dollar earners to repay their debts, then I'm bullish on both real assets and international currencies. I want to make sure I have a strong, growing income, as opposed to a weak, diminishing one.
    Good idea. . .


    I am to the point where celebrating any politician as the solution seems particularly funny, especially in the US, who has so much in the way of any sort of 'displacement', regardless of whatever direction you see progress in. Ron Paul isn't perfect, but he's more open about financial issues, and brings up questions about the federal reserve etc.

    Getting third parties in a more respectable position might be somewhat useful. But we'll see.

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    How is outer space, UDP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Ron Paul isn't perfect, but he's more open about financial issues, and brings up questions about the federal reserve etc.
    I agree, I was hoping he would get the Republican ticket.

    Maybe 3rd parties would help, but there's almost a 'culture' in America of avoiding short-term pain... which we will need to go through to correct the economy. Right now politicians are talking about avoiding a "fiscal cliff"... well, the fiscal cliff, or raising the Federal Reserve interest rates, would actually be the appropriate correction, to reduce unemployment to 4 or 5%, rather than devaluing our dollar.

    Outside of government policy, Americans need to learn to save better. 85% of automobiles bought in America are financed, whereas in some Asian countries, over 90% of vehicles are bought with cash. Asians are saving, and propelling their economies into the 21st century, while Americans take on so much debt, and we're falling back. Really, it's a product of many years of media, advertising, influence, values, etc. And although the Federal Reserve can change interest rates at will, getting the support of the people might take many years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Maybe this is true or not as I cannot say for sure from online articles though I did hear it mentioned on the news before. If he is a racist, it still doesn't negate the truth he says about the economy and the country, but of course if it is true then it does make me lose respect for him as a person. As for his corruption, I can't imagine him being any more or less corrupt than your average politican.
    Aside from your inconspicuous apologism, what point is there in endorsing him if his only difference from the other corrupt actors in this political soap opera is that he's slightly more racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    I'm sorry, but I scanned some of that literature in the link that exposes Ron Paul's alleged racism and I either didn't look deeply enough or I was just missing the racist parts. Either way, it doesn't really bother me if he were because I never endorsed him, or anyone, as candidate of anything due to my personal objections to statism and the practice of democracy. Though I do find him likeable for his promotion of Austrian economics, I wouldn't be surprised if this were because he may have supported the Confederacy in the Revolution, or has a bone to pick with the Abraham Lincoln lovers. This is a common avenue for alleging some of the Vienna school's most prominent figureheads are racist, including Llewellyn H. "Lew" Rockwell, Jr., anarcho-libertarian blogger and the current Chairman & CEO of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Auburn, Alabama. It's worth noting that Ron Paul is also listed as a Senior Fellow and Distinguished Counselor at the same institute.
    Yes, we're all fond of the influential small-business heartthrobs that are fighting the good fight.
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    Well, looks like feminists aren't going to vote for him and that's terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa Rob View Post
    Aside from your inconspicuous apologism, what point is there in endorsing him if his only difference from the other corrupt actors in this political soap opera is that he's slightly more racist?
    His platform is based heavily on libertarianism and constitutionalism, which isn't common among other politicians. If he is proven to be a racist, then I revoke my previous endorsement of him.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    His platform is based heavily on libertarianism and constitutionalism, which isn't common among other politicians. If he is proven to be a racist, then I revoke my previous endorsement of him.
    Actually he is a minarchist and that's the reason why Rob got a heart attack, partly. There is guy here that shares quite a lot in common with him, even was compared to him at one point by his fellow party members.Has quite a lot of problems with, say, the "liberal" scene/voter population, be it feminists, democrats, gay people and so on. Funny thing that guy said of Ron that he is a pacifist due to his views/politics on Iraq and Afghanistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Villain View Post
    Ron Paul is one of the few politicians with such an extensive history of open racism and yet still enjoys significant support.
    http://www.mrdestructo.com/2011/12/g...-ron-paul.html

    But perhaps his attraction stems from how corrupt he is as a politician, as page 150 of this recent report finds?
    http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/page...12.pdf?nocdn=1
    Hey politics. That's that game, right, where the guy who has the best smelling shit wins? And then when people taste the shit and realize how bad it is, it's too late? Yeah, I believe it is.

    Yay, politics.

    FOUR MORE YEARS! ROCK ON!

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    Ron Paul is trying to set his son up for office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    Ron Paul is trying to set his son up for office.
    Who would have thought it, nepotism alive and well within the libertarians.

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