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Thread: What's wrong with the United States of America?

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    Default What's wrong with the United States of America?

    USA hasn't had 5 years in a row without a military operations since their independence. The pace of war is increasing. None of the countries USA has brought democracy has stayed democratic. Iraq war could have probably fed and clothed the whole world.

    Land of the Brave and Free has the highest number of prisoners per capita. 0,7% are incarcerated. Many of these are non-violent drug users in one of your latest unwinnable wars against an abstraction; the War on Drugs.


    It's also the most obese country. It might be considered as a sign of wealth but it seems that the poor suffer from it a lot, if not even more. Your IQ is the lowest in the developed countries, averaging around 98. Less than 40% believes in Darwin's theory of evolution and 40% believes in ESP. In 1999 19% believed that the Sun revolves around Earth!


    I could go on and on and I probably will later on.

    What happened? Is there something in the water? Is it a Red Conspiracy?
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    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    I can understand why many people would think antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria, although I can't imagine why people wouldn't think ordinary tomatoes have genes.
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    Astrology has actually been through many experiments. It's known well in India as a science, not well in the western cultures.
    The statistics for other questions seem like a stretch to me, I'd like to know how those statistics were gathered.

    But back to the topic, the world is run by cultists. The world bank, the governments which are part of the U.N., almost the whole american congress / the vast majority of american presidents, & many corporate leaders all have ties to the same ritual order. America may be their favorite arm for manipulation, but if your country is part of europe it's not different at the core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    I can understand why many people would think antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria, although I can't imagine why people wouldn't think ordinary tomatoes have genes.
    Well, if only that small percentage believes in the evolution theory, it must tell something how familiar Americans are with geneology.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    My intention is not to insult American's who acknowledge that their nation is not at it's best. I believe that United States of America was founded on some good principles but somehow it turned pretty fucking ugly.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    You polarizing against america, you make chaos in hopes of some reemerging order. That's called hegelian dialectic, and it was revered by aliester crowley; one of the founders of this ritual order; as the means for manipulating masses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic But whatever you accomplish through this flailing your arms is the same chaos that gives power to the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratremix View Post
    polarizing against america creates chaos in hopes of reemerging order. That's called hegelian dialectic, and i was revered by aliester crowley; one of the founders of their ritual order; as the means for manipulating masses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic But by spreading the good word you will only end up making yourself their tool
    What do you reckon I should do then if I were to fight them?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Creating chaos gives the government power, creating order takes it away from them. The most productive thing you can do to fight them is take charge of your own life and bring order into it. And try to do that for your friends / family. If you see shit happening, put it to rest. Don't promote chaos by beating the drums. I know that sounds like a government agenda for you to stay silent, but it's actually the counter intuitive thing that it's the opposite. Why do you think 9/11 was made to be so obvious? So that we'd have dissension. World trade tower 7 collapsed and it wasn't hit by an airplane... And this information was televised. Then we have major celebrities announcing they believe it was a false flag operation, and media figures getting up in arms denying the government would do such a thing. The whole thing is a play for us to follow suite. The entire thing was expertly crafted and televised. All to create social chaos, so that the government can create a new world order. Now they even use that term on the news...

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratremix View Post
    The most productive thing you can do to fight them is take charge of your own life and bring order into it.
    Should I get a job? Workout? Get married and have children? Build a bunker? Can I have something more tangible?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Is this really an American problem? Although I have heard of statistics that show US IQ is lower than other countries.

    Mob mentality is often shown explicitly by the stock market, and understanding mob psychology is actually part of winning in the stock market. But the stock market is the same bundle of retards running back and forth in london and hong kong as it is in new york.

    I can imagine someone asking those questions to innocent bystanders. Most people will answer a random question to take the chance because they're too scared to say "I don't know". If you walk up to someone and ask a question that takes advantage of this pride you'll probably succeed.

    "What has more percent oxygen, the sky, or a wind tunnel?"

    "An airplane crashed in hawaii, where did they bury the survivors"

    YOU'RE AN IDIOTIC AMERICAN LOLOLOL

    However I'll agree that american foreign policy and internal policy are a problem. However when I think on a galactic scale I tend to stop caring and start to believe that any government is acceptable (except one that impales me for looking at the king cockeyed, I'd probably be the first on the stake).
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 11-10-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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    agendas,agendas,agendas.you rarely get to see the real opinion of the public on those polls.plus,as time goes by it gets harder to reach the upper ladders of information directories and verify the info acuracy as well as the sources.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Should I get a job? Workout? Get married and have children? Build a bunker? Can I have something more tangible?
    Whatever you want to do, do it.
    If you were to 'fight' these people, what you'd be fighting is the hearts & minds of the masses. They're the ones who are manipulated, they are the ones who give power to the government. To show how hopeless this fight would be, try convincing a poor american black person not to vote for barrack obama; or explaining to him what socialism is. Then try explaining to a military officer that 9/11 was staged, and it's a massive government conspiracy, and that america has trampled the world with its armed forces for 50 years. It is completely hopeless, it's not worth your life in trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Is this really an American problem?
    Yes, I think it's a problem if citizens of a democracy are poorly educated.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that USA has religious fervor.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that the largest military might is also the most aggressive nation of human history.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that there is a witchhunt after non-violent drug users, violently enforcing it beyond their borders.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that almost every hundreth man is in jail and fifth of them get raped.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that so many people still believe in something that was proven otherwise by Galileo 400 years ago.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that most Americans can't comprehend scientific articles well.
    Yes, I think it's a problem when third of the population believes in ghosts.

    What problem(s) were you referring to?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratremix View Post
    It is completely hopeless, it's not worth your life in trying.
    So no matter what I'll do things will get fucked?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    I guess since you know about all this beforehand, you can prepare. It's really a question of whether you'll be fucked. Alot of people are going to get fucked, that's for sure. If you want to set up food shelters, I guess you could do that. You're fighting against the tide, but I think that is a good fight. As long as you enter it knowing you will not prevail. Ultimately the global state will take control, but how long til that happens is debatable; and after it happens, how long until it degrades into totalitarianism is also debatable. Maybe you can avoid it in your lifetime. Don't have kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Yes, I think it's a problem if citizens of a democracy are poorly educated.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that USA has religious fervor.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that the largest military might is also the most aggressive nation of human history.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that there is a witchhunt after non-violent drug users, violently enforcing it beyond their borders.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that almost every hundreth man is in jail and fifth of them get raped.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that so many people still believe in something that was proven otherwise by Galileo 400 years ago.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that most Americans can't comprehend scientific articles well.
    Yes, I think it's a problem when third of the population believes in ghosts.

    What problem(s) were you referring to?
    Everything you just listed. If we weren't the most aggressive military, someone else would be. So why's it matter?

    London doesn't brush their teeth, the japanese no longer reproduce, and koreans eat dogs. You don't see me caring.

    the point I'm trying to make: america isn't the biggest problem. And if america was gone, the same problems would appear somewhere else.
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    Isn't this an 'irony' thread considering your current condition Aqua?

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    oh by the way WEED 2012!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Everything you just listed.
    If you don't consider the low intelligence populace a problem, I count you among them.
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    If we weren't the most aggressive military, someone else would be. So why's it matter?
    So you justify wars because if you weren't waging them, someone else would be. Every people from Native Americans to Iraqis will probably understand your point of view. The biggest boy in the schoolyard is always aggressive, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    London doesn't brush their teeth and koreans eat dogs. You don't see me caring.
    The bad breath of the English don't carry as far cruise missiles. As you don't care, you probably know how to exit this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Isn't this an 'irony' thread considering your current condition Aqua?
    Which is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    If you don't consider the low intelligence populace a problem, I count you among them.
    So you're arguing its the government's responsibility to ensure public intelligence, or its my responsiblity to monitor other americans' intelligence? I disagree.

    So you justify wars because if you weren't waging them, someone else would be. Every people from Native Americans to Iraqis will probably understand your point of view. The biggest boy in the schoolyard is always aggressive, right?
    I justify in that I have no control over it and have no way of stopping it (unless I decide to don my ninja garb and go shoot some bankers and politicians, which isn't worth the effort or the risk to my own life)

    The bad breath of the English don't carry as far cruise missiles. As you don't care, you probably know how to exit this thread.
    How is low intelligence any worse than disregard for their own bodies? You're weighing intelligence over health. And its not simply bad breath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    So you're arguing its the government's responsibility to ensure public intelligence, or its my responsiblity to monitor other americans' intelligence? I disagree.
    I was asking why is it so. I wasn't asking for increasing government's responsibility nor you to monitor the lack of intelligence of people assumedly around you NOR was I asking for obvious straw man arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I justify in that I have no control over it and have no way of stopping it (unless I decide to don my ninja garb and go shoot some bankers and politicians, which isn't worth the effort or the risk to my own life)
    You don't have to tell as I know that you are unable to speak against it (because somebody has to be the bully, right?), to reconsider your voting options, not to spread awareness. It's a big fight but I am already highly aware that you are unwilling and unable to do anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    How is low intelligence any worse than disregard for their own bodies? You're weighing intelligence over health. And its not simply bad breath.
    Okay, fine, they are almost as obese as Americans. So what?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    I had a defeatist attitude, but I changed my mind. Any kind of work to help yourself / the community is the counter to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I was asking why is it so. I wasn't asking for increasing government's responsibility nor you to monitor the lack of intelligence of people assumedly around you NOR was I asking for obvious straw man arguments.
    It wasn't so much a strawman argument so much as it was me revealing the practical implications that you're apparently not seeing. How are you going to attack the united states for being unintelligent because its not meeting your not-so-practical utopian ideals? Who says america has to be intelligent?

    You don't have to tell as I know that you are unable to speak against it (because somebody has to be the bully, right?), to reconsider your voting options, not to spread awareness. It's a big fight but I am already highly aware that you are unwilling and unable to do anything about it.
    I voted for gary johnson and I post libertarian ads all over my facebook and youtube. I do things.

    Okay, fine, they are almost as obese as Americans. So what?
    you didn't understand my point. You value intelligence over health. Doesn't mean your values are more important. If you accuse the united states of being unintelligent, I'm going to accuse other countries of being something that I personally view as deficient.
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    If people value ignorance and poverty they have the freedom to pursue ignorance and poverty. Likewise, if they don't want to be ignorant and poor they are free to pursue the opposite. Choices often offend others but offensive does no physical harm. Freedom has an offensive side to be sure but at its most ignorant and offensive I think still beats the limitation and regulation thereof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Yes, I think it's a problem if citizens of a democracy are poorly educated.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that USA has religious fervor.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that the largest military might is also the most aggressive nation of human history.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that there is a witchhunt after non-violent drug users, violently enforcing it beyond their borders.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that almost every hundreth man is in jail and fifth of them get raped.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that so many people still believe in something that was proven otherwise by Galileo 400 years ago.
    Yes, I think it's a problem that most Americans can't comprehend scientific articles well.
    Yes, I think it's a problem when third of the population believes in ghosts.

    What problem(s) were you referring to?
    Consider, though, that the US are really, really big. So they´re hard to compare to a northern european society which is mostly urbanized, well-educated and tertiary-sector oriented. Most people in europe can´t comprehend scientific articles either, and is generally (on average) poorly educated.

    Still, the whole belief-in-creationism thingy is pretty hard to justify.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Consider, though, that the US are really, really big. So they´re hard to compare to a northern european society which is mostly urbanized, well-educated and tertiary-sector oriented. Most people in europe can´t comprehend scientific articles either, and is generally (on average) poorly educated.

    Still, the whole belief-in-creationism thingy is pretty hard to justify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    The same could be said for more than a few 1st-world nations. For instance, the UK and France routinely engage in various military interventions among their post-colonial stomping grounds, particularly in Africa and South America.

    There's a number of countries that contribute to UN peacekeeping forces stationed in various hotspots as well.
    True. Sometimes it does seem like if there is power to be abused, there will be power abusers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    The scale of US involvement isn't. US forces were pulled out of Iraq, and they'll be gone from Afghanistan by 2014. US military presence in NATO Europe is also being substantially reduced.
    My calculations were based the number of US military operations on the scale of last 100, 30 or 300 years, but this is still good news. It's also an unreliable way to calculate such since it only covers the quantity of the military operations, not the quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Japan and Germany stayed democratic.
    Germany was a democracy before, although a flawed one. Hitler had won the elections, although the means were questionable. Not as questionable as the ones in USSR though. I can't really argue about Japan though. Still you probably agree with me about how unsuccessful, wasteful and questionable it is to try to bring democracy to cultures with carpet bombs and CIA-appointed dictators.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and whatever other bullshit got sponsored during the 'Arab Spring', will turn into full-blown Islamic Theocracies of course—but that's because Muslims democratically elect this sort of thing anyway. Should've left the strongman dictators like Mubarak, Gaddafi, and even Hussein in place, since at least they were secular.
    Or maybe you don't. Interesting. Can you point out how are the post-Arab Spring nations and their democracy doing so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    For what, a few weeks?
    I haven't seen any reliable calculations nor would I think it's a good idea. It's just a point. However if USA tax money is to be used to affect something outside of USA, I'd rather see it directed to education or other ways of creating a self-sustaining wealth (as opposed to creating dependency).

    Not to say this is any reliable source (I smell a revolting humanitarian bias) but it says that USA annual military budget is 680 billion dollars and the source says that the yearly cost of ending the extreme povery is 175 billion dollars. There is a high risk that if such would be done, this number would be likely to increase exponentially in the following years as the population might increase due to better quality of living. Then again higher quality of living doesn't mean a faster rate of population growth as we can observe from the sharp decline in population growth during industrialization in 1st world countries. The radical green nazi humanist in me suggests that this money could also be used in discovering and implementing ways to increase infertility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Places like China have much higher rates, albeit off the books. They also like to prune their prison populations periodically for organ harvesting.
    If China had more than 0,7% incarcerated, it would mean at least 10 million people and it would require a lot of prisons. Then again it might be true. However, the statistics don't really flatter USA, even if China would have it worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    That's largely because our government is stupid and doles out farm subsidies that incidentally encourage excess corn and sugar commodities, which then gets dumped onto the market at artificially prices that makes junk food cheaper than real food:
    Hmm, didn't know about that. Although I think there are probably other important factors in the equation, that seems to be a major one. Appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I personally think people are stupid everywhere, but it's questionable to claim that Americans are a dumber lot on average relative to other developed nations. Consider that education levels in the US vary quite a bit both regionally and locally, so measures of American scientific literacy will depend greatly on sampling—not to mention, this is a country of 315+ million people spread over a rather large amount of territory.
    I assumed that the sample was credible but it's still a lot to ask from a sample of a population of that size. The sample of the USA population on the "IQ and the Wealth of the Nations" was based on 4 studies. For some reason I wasn't able to find the information about the sizes and qualities of those three other samples but one of the was 64000 people aged from 13 to 18. The statistics in the OP still suggest that the education is of questionable quality in some areas of knowledge. I feel like blaming the Brave New World effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    According to this report, the US ranks #4 as the most educated nation in the world.
    Interesting.. By quantity, yes, but I still find the quality questionable as the statistics presented in the OP show.
    Here are some PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) statistics and they don't really flatter USA.



    I tried not to pick and choose the statistics that favor my agenda but I have to admit that PISA has probably come to my attention since I've often read about how well Finland has scored in PISA.

    A point of interest:
    When I sought out PISA statistics I found something interesting. Apparently countries with higher PISA scores have lower confidence in entrepreneurial capabilities:


    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    The vast majority of the world's top 100 universities also happen to be located in the United States: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...versities-2012
    I'd be careful about comparing the universities of the world. It doesn't sound too empirical and the system of education varies a lot. Still, the United States fares undeniably well. Maybe United States has a bigger gap, say, between the 25% of most educated and 25% least educated than most OECD countries. So their elite would be among the finest in the Western countries but their worst are among the worst in the Western. But I am not sure what to make of it.

    I hope that our arguments will bring deeper understanding to both parties as we preserve an open mind and a mutual respect.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Still, the whole belief-in-creationism thingy is pretty hard to justify.
    Maybe the statistics in the OP about the beliefs of the citizen's of the US just presents stupidity resulting from the lack of secularity.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Still, the whole belief-in-creationism thingy is pretty hard to justify.
    It's an ill formulated expression of traditional American skepticism against being told by an elite what to believe.
    Last edited by ragnar; 11-12-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: clarity of expession.
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    Same thing that's wrong with any place really; ethnocentrism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    It's an ill formulated expression of traditional American skepticism against being told by an elite what to believe.
    Which would this elite be? :S
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I'd be careful about comparing the universities of the world. It doesn't sound too empirical and the system of education varies a lot. Still, the United States fares undeniably well. Maybe United States has a bigger gap, say, between the 25% of most educated and 25% least educated than most OECD countries. So their elite would be among the finest in the Western countries but their worst are among the worst in the Western. But I am not sure what to make of it.

    I hope that our arguments will bring deeper understanding to both parties as we preserve an open mind and a mutual respect.
    College here is becoming more of a scam. Most of the undergraduate classes just reteach highschool information in a more formalilzed way. Colleges are pressured to give out As/Bs to students for mediocre performance. Grades in college have become more about participation and following the bureaucracy of your teacher than anything. There still is memorization and knowledge required but its not much more difficult than highschool...

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    unfortunately the shittiest of the genes in the british empire were transported as slaves.. I mean indentured servants for their privileged overlords and they bred like rabbits. The solution is obvious. Genetically modify the south and select for increased iq
    Last edited by Kim; 11-15-2012 at 03:01 AM.

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    wtf?

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    Apparently somebody saw that it was necessary to protect people from hearing something that may be uncomfortable to hear.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Apparently somebody saw that it was necessary to protect people from hearing something that may be uncomfortable to hear.
    Yes, exactly. No need to condone posts that tell forum members that they have a low IQ and are inherently inferior because of their race.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Yes, exactly. No need to condone posts that tell forum members that they have a low IQ and are inherently inferior because of their race.
    So you heroicly put it in somewhere where no one can find it and hurt their little feelings: The spoilers.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Huh? I just warned people that what they are about to read is racist dribble. Nothing heroic about it.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Huh? I just warned people that what they are about to read is racist dribble. Nothing heroic about it.
    Don't downplay yourself. What you did was heroic and should be set as an example. If someone says something that is to be considered racist dribble, we need people like you to call it out and hide it as such because not all of us are capable of seeing for our own eyes.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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