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Thread: The idea to introduce "smart weight" to Elections

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    Default The idea to introduce "intelligence weight" to Elections

    I suggest the intellectual weight to every citizen in the electing. Variation is to be small: 0.8 to 1.3. Assigned to it will be based on many factors affecting intelligence, such as education level, age, IQ scores, etc. Assumed small spread due to the fact that the task of measuring intelligence is very controversial, especially when the question of comparing fundamentally different talents. Nevertheless, there are a number of objective laws: For example: the one who "objectively" has a diagnosis of "The Idiot" - picks up on any of the versions of the intelligence test score above 90 (though by the standards of a record of those idiots who do this coefficient below 20) .
    In mind the fact that now every citizen is not the same weight in the vote. This will now be included in the right to vote (even at the most minimal civil rights) of the people who are already 14 years old. This category of citizens, pensioners - will vote at lower rates of 0.8 - 1. Since the objective intelligence elderly differs little from the level of intelligence teens - teens (their difference is only that old - supporters of conservative views, and adolescents - radical) which will now be eligible to vote in the elections - will better balance the public from excessive congestion.
    Now, my guess how it works: Here for example Yulia Timoshnko decided to bribe the citizens (which basically - retired) - dealt to 1000 hryvnia. This category in the new system of weights in the election - would have significantly lower than in the previous authority. I think that even citizens of average intelligence would understand that this will lead to inflation, and that such measures - before a fall will bring. This might have led to only the real trash. In the new system of weights votes these cattle, would not have had such a strong weight (but still had some weight to the case - alternative special advantages). Therefore: it did not even have a motive to do so. She would have had mainly, if she wants to run the country - mostly agree with the intellectuals of the country. And intellectuals - to deceive hard.

    Another feature that would prevent attempts to usurp power: Now that teenagers have the right to vote - the would-be dictators, an additional problem in trying to get the most votes (to take over the management and create a totalitarian state), making mainly focus on people whose IQ is below average, there is an additional opposition: teenagers. So - they will have to negotiate with the very motley crowd, a compromise which will be harder.

    Also:
    1304671403_14552439_aykyu.jpg
    Last edited by Yaaroslav; 03-19-2013 at 08:23 AM.
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
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    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
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    And they sought for more elaborate ways of making the two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Another idea: because the voice is no longer equal to 1. Counting is likely to carry the machine. This will make easier another innovation: How about we had the opportunity to distribute your voice (with automatic control of the amount of points to vote) between the different candidates:
    It often happens that one candidate simpatiziruesh more than others, but they believe that they still want to have also been in power. When you have the opportunity to vote for only one. This possibility can not be implemented.
    Basically, in a vast number theory this imbalance should be aligned.
    Your opinion?
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Better idea, paying taxes and not a criminal, 1 vote. Not paying taxes or a criminal? No votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Better idea, paying taxes and not a criminal, 1 vote. Not paying taxes or a criminal? No votes.
    Enforce anti-piracy laws and drug laws, oligarchy achieved.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Wisdom is more important than smartness. Does Russia even have elections?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Wisdom is more important than smartness. Does Russia even have elections?
    Well, your wisdom is off, went to sleep, is having a picnic, retired. Russia is a Federation like U.S., and yes, they do have elections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    based on many factors ...
    1. Educated idiots are still idiots.
    2. Some of the worst policies in the world have been thought out and implemented by highly intelligent people.
    3. Older idiots are more dangerous than young ones because they've gained social experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    objective laws
    AFAIK - not that I know much - the pre-1900s voting laws were quite exclusive and were gradually hollowed out. Maybe it's time to revert this undermining of the voting process part of the political system?
    Greetings, ragnar
    ILI knowledge-seeker

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    1. Educated idiots are still idiots.
    Useful idiots.

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    I think wisdom is a bit more valuable than intelligence when it comes to this stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Better idea, paying taxes and not a criminal, 1 vote. Not paying taxes or a criminal? No votes.
    Being a criminal or not paying taxes dosen't means absent ability to make wise decisions in manage the country
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Wisdom is more important than smartness. Does Russia even have elections?
    Perhaps I do not understanding you well. Because in Russian language terms: "smartness" and "wisdom" are very close. Almost - synonyms. Which difference do you consider beetwen these terms?
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    Being a criminal or not paying taxes dosen't means absent ability to make wise decisions in manage the country
    It certainly does, because the function of government is to spend money and enforce justice, effectively law abiding tax payers should be the only clients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    Perhaps I do not understanding you well. Because in Russian language terms: "smartness" and "wisdom" are very close. Almost - synonyms. Which difference do you consider beetwen these terms?
    Smart people have knowledge. Wise people have understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Useful idiots.
    <3
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Smart people have knowledge. Wise people have understanding.
    That sounds nice and doesn't mean shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    That sounds nice and doesn't mean shit.
    How about:

    Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato into a fruit salad.

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    wisdom comes from intelligence + experience.

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    Foster the strong and smart and gas the stupid and crippled, it's really that easy.

    You get a fat for that.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Foster the strong and smart and gas the stupid and crippled, it's really that easy.

    You get a fat for that.
    What happens when the stupid and crippled are believed to be strong and smart?

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    Let me consult a DnD book for the difference between Intelligence and Wisdom.... oh wait I don't really care.

    I think intelligence does matter and a lot -- I'd much rather have someone contribute to a decision based on facts and well thought out reasons and rationales rather than someone who makes a decision on the basis of superficial and vapid things. What does wisdom even mean in the context of an election? You have the wisdom to decide what is best for a nation of people? Or the man that is best for a nation of people? Facts and information of the issues are completely irrelevant so long as you can discern which man is going to change the nation for the better! That entire idea sounds great... issues in a society aren't complex at all, they are rather straight forward and require little understanding of anything, just the right amount of wisdom and life experience, just get forest freaking gump in office to tell us all about how life is like a box of chocolates. Citizens of the united states! I'm not a smart man but I know what love is! Boxes of chocolates for everyone! Let's elect a freaking idiot savant! YEA!!! GO WISDOM > INTELLECT.

    Intellect does matter I think. Wisdom isn't entirely irrelevant, but intelligence allows one to not only get an understanding of complex social issues, it allows one to realistically conceptualize the state of society, and allows one to develop a course of action or agenda for how to correct or resolve these issues in the present.

    The entire notion of wisdom > intellect wouldn't annoy me so much if it was framed a different way. A lot of times it feels like an excuse for stupid people to recover some dignity for their deficiencies -- which is fine, but then they have to turn it around and attack someone for being smart by implying that there skills are more "valuable". All I need to know I learned in kindergarten!! DURRR!!!! Sure plenty of essential and basic life skills are taught in kindergarten but I'm sure a rocket scientist would have to know a little bit more than how the little engine that could made it over the hill to successfully build a rocket to go to the moon.

    The fact is that some skills are more curtailed for different things -- a rocket scientist needs intellect, a kindergarten teacher needs wisdom more than intellect.... in terms of voting an chief executive it's a combination. Wisdom is important to discern the qualities of the person's character while Intellect is important to have an understanding of the issues and a realistic plan for correcting them. Both are important and imo sorely lacking. Electing an idiot savant is just as dumb as electing a smart man that is unwise or lacks in "street smarts" and life experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    What happens when the stupid and crippled are believed to be strong and smart?
    Well, they won't die then. It really only depends on the opinion of those who are in power.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Intelligence will help you solve the trouble that the wise manage to avoid.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    And they sought for more elaborate ways of making the two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
    QFT.

    Maybe others didn't get your reference, but it's like Benjamin Franklin's quote: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."

    Where there's a will, there's a way. Manipulating the strength of votes does not deter the incentive for greed, control, and infiltration of a system.

    Changing the rules of a game does not change the players. The rules can be worked around.

    Tweaking the 'intelligence' vote from 0.8 to 1.3 would not change the Bell curve of intelligent voters, anyway. Let's say one standard deviation higher than the mean would be "intelligent". An intelligent minority wouldn't prevail in a democracy, because the average majority would vote to widen the acceptance of intelligence. Eventually you would have more average people arguing their vote is worth more, so they would vote to increase the strength of their vote. (The OP also failed to suggest how "intelligence" would be measured or evaluated.) If the intelligent minority has no strength or control to suppress a resistance larger than themselves, the system is useless.

    Also, this would be unconstitutional. It's like saying women's or black people's votes are worth less, it's just another way to categorize people as unequal. This rule, intended to protect intelligent people, would end up taking away more personal rights of equality and would do more harm than good.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Also, this would be unconstitutional. It's like saying women's or black people's votes are worth less, it's just another way to categorize people as unequal.
    At least if intelligence would be measured by IQ it would probably favor the Jewish women the most and Afro-American men the least.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    I suggest the intellectual weight to every citizen in the electing. Variation is to be small: 0.8 to 1.3. Assigned to it will be based on many factors affecting intelligence, such as education level, age, IQ scores, etc. Assumed small spread due to the fact that the task of measuring intelligence is very controversial, especially when the question of comparing fundamentally different talents. Nevertheless, there are a number of objective laws: For example: the one who "objectively" has a diagnosis of "The Idiot" - picks up on any of the versions of the intelligence test score above 90 (though by the standards of a record of those idiots who do this coefficient below 20) .
    In mind the fact that now every citizen is not the same weight in the vote. This will now be included in the right to vote (even at the most minimal civil rights) of the people who are already 14 years old. This category of citizens, pensioners - will vote at lower rates of 0.8 - 1. Since the objective intelligence elderly differs little from the level of intelligence teens - teens (their difference is only that old - supporters of conservative views, and adolescents - radical) which will now be eligible to vote in the elections - will better balance the public from excessive congestion.
    Now, my guess how it works: Here for example Yulia Timoshnko decided to bribe the citizens (which basically - retired) - dealt to 1000 hryvnia. This category in the new system of weights in the election - would have significantly lower than in the previous authority. I think that even citizens of average intelligence would understand that this will lead to inflation, and that such measures - before a fall will bring. This might have led to only the real trash. In the new system of weights votes these cattle, would not have had such a strong weight (but still had some weight to the case - alternative special advantages). Therefore: it did not even have a motive to do so. She would have had mainly, if she wants to run the country - mostly agree with the intellectuals of the country. And intellectuals - to deceive hard.

    Another feature that would prevent attempts to usurp power: Now that teenagers have the right to vote - the would-be dictators, an additional problem in trying to get the most votes (to take over the management and create a totalitarian state), making mainly focus on people whose IQ is below average, there is an additional opposition: teenagers. So - they will have to negotiate with the very motley crowd, a compromise which will be harder.

    Also:
    1304671403_14552439_aykyu.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Where there's a will, there's a way. Manipulating the strength of votes does not deter the incentive for greed, control, and infiltration of a system.
    So? When the most power are belong thouse who the most wise - society has the similar vulnarabilty to be manipulating for bad people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Changing the rules of a game does not change the players. The rules can be worked around.
    Do you know how?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Tweaking the 'intelligence' vote from 0.8 to 1.3 would not change the Bell curve of intelligent voters, anyway. Let's say one standard deviation higher than the mean would be "intelligent". An intelligent minority wouldn't prevail in a democracy, because the average majority would vote to widen the acceptance of intelligence. Eventually you would have more average people arguing their vote is worth more, so they would vote to increase the strength of their vote. (The OP also failed to suggest how "intelligence" would be measured or evaluated.) If the intelligent minority has no strength or control to suppress a resistance larger than themselves, the system is useless.
    Sure that will not work only for small numbers of voters. When on the elections one of the candidates has 48% and anouther 52% - it could be affect drammatically.

    Ideally, we would like to do silly were not allowed to vote, and voted only smart. However, the vagueness of the criteria to objectively determine who is smart and who is stupid - do not allow this uniquely
    Only then, when we set a small variation of the voting rights - only in this case, we have most of the "smart" and will really get an objective intelligent, which in turn will lead to an increase in human decisions smart people.
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Also, this would be unconstitutional. It's like saying women's or black people's votes are worth less, it's just another way to categorize people as unequal. This rule, intended to protect intelligent people, would end up taking away more personal rights of equality and would do more harm than good.
    They aren't worthless, they have negative worth if you are white and male - The schmucks which pay for everything.

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    you do realize that if such a system is ever implemented, grammatically challenged retards will be the first to be blocked from voting, right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    you do realize that if such a system is ever implemented, grammatically challenged retards will be the first to be blocked from voting, right.
    Now now, English isn't his first language and his English is far better than your Russian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Intelligence will help you solve the trouble that the wise manage to avoid.
    = These sentencess means that there are lots of ways how to measuse the intelligence. These problem are actual when you are compare high levels of intelligence.
    Research of the level of intelligence - is the task of scientists to appropriate branches. Socionics in particular can really help.
    Because we can not objectively determine who is the most wise - that's why I proposed to set all of them value 1,3 and no more.
    When research move forward, the weight value of vote could be set more variation.

    But now any of these ways are effective to determine: who is idiot or not. And this could be used in the elections.
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    BTW
    I decided to discuss this idea of the English speaking forum because I know that the level of computarisation in English speaking countries are much more higher than in my homeland, and that's why it would be much more easy to implement this idea into real life.
    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
    Remember: NO CONVERGENCE - NO SCIENCE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    = These sentencess means that there are lots of ways how to measuse the intelligence. These problem are actual when you are compare high levels of intelligence.
    Research of the level of intelligence - is the task of scientists to appropriate branches. Socionics in particular can really help.
    Because we can not objectively determine who is the most wise - that's why I proposed to set all of them value 1,3 and no more.
    When research move forward, the weight value of vote could be set more variation.

    But now any of these ways are effective to determine: who is idiot or not. And this could be used in the elections.
    You can't measure intelligence, that is impossible, intelligence is a heritable trait amongst many, so measuring it is going to get lost on you and you can't determine who is "objectively" wise, for IQ measures only one side of intelligence, just one (mathematical), so good luck with objectively measuring something that can't be measured.

    Ti fest fuck.

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    What stops the people with higher vote weight to increase it while decreasing that of the people with lesser vote weight?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim
    English isn't his first language
    nor is it mine. it isn't some kind of inhuman feat to learn to speak and write a second language the proper way.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    How about:

    Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato into a fruit salad.
    See that's too simplistic. You can know that just because someone tells you. Doing what someone else tells you is not wisdom.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    nor is it mine. it isn't some kind of inhuman feat to learn to speak and write a second language the proper way.
    Maritsa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    nor is it mine. it isn't some kind of inhuman feat to learn to speak and write a second language the proper way.
    It's been only some time after the USSR collapsed and during that time most of the second language that was taught to non-Russians under USSR rule was Russia, not English. He probably speaks Ukraine (assuming his not part of the 18% Russian minority), Russia and some English.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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