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Thread: FOUR MORE YEARS!

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    Default FOUR MORE YEARS!

    Well done, American voters! Sanity prevails.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    So long as we never, ever get a mormon president!!
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    yeah no kidding

    *takes a loooong breath, relaxes and passes out*

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    I was raised in the mormon church. I vaguely remember something about 'in the future' (this was about 30 years ago), there will be a registration, and people who are members will receive the kingdom, and those who aren't would be caste out. Now, the memory is from about 30 years ago, but I do remember the image of something akin to a police state, and fearing removing my name from their list of those who've been baptized into their church.

    Oh, and no, this was not in reference to some afterlife thing. It was most definitely referencing earthly life.
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    The welfare-warfare state wins again.

    What a fucking surprise.
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    yaaay

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    Whether Romney or Obama the result is the same. People flashing their team colors, and thinking there's a difference, and the abysmally small percentage of 3rd party votes tells me that people are morons. I live in a nation of idiots. More than 95% of the people voting today want everything to stay the same, they want to stay locked into the game of red and blue, my team against yours, and THEY DONT WANT TO THINK. They want to be told what to do, they want to believe they have no real choices, they want to keep the status quo . . . and they're happy as long as their team wins. More than 95% of people who voted today love the chains they're in, and want to wrap them tighter around themselves and others. They don't want freedom. They don't want choices. They don't want responsibility, they buy what they're fed, and never look to see what's in it. I don't support a 3rd party. I don't support any parties. I just want people to think and make real choices, but they're all too chicken shit that "the other team will win" that they won't do it. Disappointing, but not surprising.

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    OBAMA WAS ALL LIKE COOL BLACK GUY I CAN RELATE TO AND ROMNEY WAS THIS MEAN DAD I KNEW IN CHURCH ONCE.

    AND DEY ARE SO DIFFERENT. ONE IS A CORPORATE SHILL AND TEH OTHER IS A RELIGIOUS CORPORATE SHILL.





    SANITY WINS 'MURICA. SANITY WINS.










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    Obamacare will kick in, kids can stay on parents' healthcare plan, women will retain the right to decide over having an abortion, there is hope for gay marriage to come through, credit card companies can't screw me over like they used to, students have better access to loans, undocumented youth have a chance to get citizenship, I saved almost $4000 in taxes under Obama, etc. etc.

    I don't understand how you can say that it's all the same. All this philosophical talk about bad government does not matter much when you go about your daily life and try to make a living. How many of you who say it's all the same actually DO make a living on your own or are supporting a family?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I just want people to think and make real choices, but they're all too chicken shit that "the other team will win" that they won't do it. Disappointing, but not surprising.
    What ARE these real choices you speak of?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    I’m not trying to spin this positive, but I’ve talked with several people who think a lot differently than I do (they are in the financial industry) and they saw Romney as a long shot all along, although he would have been a good thing for the economy there would still have been gridlock in Congress.

    They saw Obama as more of the same as we’ve seen in the last 2 years since the Rs took the House in 2010, i.e. screwy foreign policy, a loss of status as a world power, but life goes on more-less as it is. Good chance of slipping back into recession (no GNP growth) but no chance of more stimulus fiascos.
     
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    A sad but in some ways ironic article from Reuters! http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...oreignExchange

    (Reuters) - The dollar fell broadly in Asia on Wednesday as media projected U.S. President Barack Obama won a closely-fought election, ensuring that the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing will be in place.

    The Democrats look set to retain a majority in the Senate while the Republicans also appear to be solidifying their control of the House of Representatives, keeping intact the risk of policy paralysis over the looming "fiscal cliff" -- a sharp fiscal tightening due to start next year.

    "The Fed's quantitative easing is essentially a policy to cheapen the dollar. Republicans have been criticising the policy but it seems like that policy is likely to stay," said Yunosuke Ikeda, senior forex strategist at Nomura Securities.

    The dollar fell to as low as 79.81 yen, nearly a full yen below its four-month high of 80.68 yen hit last week, before bouncing back slightly to 80.14 yen, still down 0.3 percent on the day.

    An immediate support is seen at 79.275 yen, a low hit on October 30 right after the Bank of Japan's easing.

    The dollar's drop came as the 10-year U.S. Treasuries yield dropped seven basis points to as low as 1.68 percent.

    On top of Obama's support for quantitative easing, which Romney and many Republicans are opposed as a dangerous intervention that could stoke inflation, Obama's tougher stance on financial regulations is viewed as positive for bonds and negative for stocks.

    "After the election, the market will likely shift its focus to the fiscal cliff. It's not clear what Obama can achieve (to reduce the impact of the fiscal cliff)," said Junya Tanase, chief FX strategist at JPMorgan Chase.

    About $600 billion in government spending cuts and higher taxes will kick in early next year, unless U.S. lawmakers take steps to mitigate their impact.

    While analysts think some sort of a compromise can be reached by the end of the year between the two parties, investors are worried about a repeat of a major showdown last year that led to downgrade of the U.S. credit rating.

    The dollar's index against a basket of major currencies fell 0.3 percent to 80.352, slipping further from Monday's two-month high of 80.843.

    The euro rose 0.4 percent to $1.2862, bouncing back from a two-month low of $1.2763 hit on Tuesday partly on nervousness ahead of a parliamentary vote in Greece on the country's austerity reforms needed to secure international aid.

    Greece's coalition government hopes to overcome its own divisions to push through the austerity package needed to avert bankruptcy in the parliament on Wednesday.

    While Prime Minister Antonis Samaras is expected to narrowly win support for the cocktail of budget cuts, tax hikes and labour reforms, the smallest party in his coalition will oppose the measures, leaving him with a margin of just a handful of votes.

    The euro had earlier this week broken below its 200-day moving average, but it has managed to cling around that level, at $1.28267 on Wednesday, in a sign investors' fear of a major crisis in the euro zone has subsided after the European Central Bank introduced a scheme to buy bonds of crisis-hit countries.

    "The market no longer worries about the euro zone's break-up. The euro is under pressure but that would be a normal currency depreciation due to poor economic performance," said Nomura's Ikeda, adding that the euro will move in a rough $1.25-$1.30 range.

    The Australian dollar also gained 0.2 percent to hit a fresh six-week high of $1.0461, extending its gains made after the Reserve Bank of Australia surprised some market players by not cutting rates on Tuesday.

    (Reporting by Hideyuki Sano; Editing by Jacqueline Wong)
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    What ARE these real choices you speak of?
    Are you trying to be ironic? A real choice is an informed choice that matches your own best interests, and is aligned with your values, not made out of emotion and fear, but based on reason. If a person's primary reason for choosing something is fear of something else then they're not making a choice at all- they're letting themselves be bullied and manipulated. People have vague notions that sound good "Romney is for limited government" or last election a big one was "Obama is the anti-war candidate" but they don't look at the reality, and see that those excuses and "reasons" are giant piles of shit, absolutely not true at all. The truth is that people are voting on emotion, not thinking, and not making truly informed choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireyed View Post
    Did you vote, Squark?
    No. I couldn't vote due to unmet registration requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    All of which is meaningless considering the fiscal cliff the US is on with its outstanding debt. Even if upper-income people were taxed at 100%, this still doesn't cover the deficit.
    .
    It's not meaningless at all. How the economic situation plays out remains to be seen, but none of the above is meaningless to me and many other people who are looking for improvements in their lives that go beyond the abstract.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Are you trying to be ironic? A real choice is an informed choice that matches your own best interests, and is aligned with your values, not made out of emotion and fear, but based on reason. If a person's primary reason for choosing something is fear of something else then they're not making a choice at all- they're letting themselves be bullied and manipulated. People have vague notions that sound good "Romney is for limited government" or last election a big one was "Obama is the anti-war candidate" but they don't look at the reality, and see that those excuses and "reasons" are giant piles of shit, absolutely not true at all. The truth is that people are voting on emotion, not thinking, and not making truly informed choices.
    So what is YOUR truly informed choice?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    No. I couldn't vote due to unmet registration requirements.
    Are your a criminal? How exciting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Yes, improvements in their lives that involve taking from others.
    That's your point of view. If my taxes pay for the fire truck you call to your house, that's fine by me.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Yes, and the first 10 redistribute wealth like mad. They also have universal or mixed healthcare systems. And extensive "entitlement" programs.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Nice red herring. I wasn't aware that your local municipal taxes paid for firetrucks to come if my house was on fire.
    Oh, no taxes go towards funding fire and police departments?
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    And now I have to go and be a little happy while listening to the president. Bye lovely people!
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Are your a criminal? How exciting.
    No, it's far more boring I just move around a lot and every state has different rules. I was supposed to register 30 days in advance in order to vote here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    So what is YOUR truly informed choice?
    It's in my best interest to break down the political system as it is now, to remove parties, to eliminate centralized control, to unlatch the stranglehold of the state from the people, and the corporations from the state. My choices to further those interests as far as voting, and only voting are concerned are to vote for a write-in or 3rd party candidate, or to refrain from voting at all.

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    The whole election "show" in the US is pretty lame. I mean, singers invited, people speaking for hours with big, big words and sensationalistic claims...at least we have Berlusconi and everyone knows he´s a joke

    Anyway, what I wanted to say is: I´m glad it ended.
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    I know that the political compass is not the ultimate tool to categorize the political belief of the people and its survey might also be questionable, but I'm prone to believe that there is indeed not so much difference between both (main) candidates.



    So while both men stand for different measures they promise to take, they are virtually identical from a philosophical point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    They want to be told what to do, they want to believe they have no real choices, they want to keep the status quo . . . and they're happy as long as their team wins. More than 95% of people who voted today love the chains they're in, and want to wrap them tighter around themselves and others. They don't want freedom. They don't want choices. They don't want responsibility, they buy what they're fed, and never look to see what's in it.
    Most europeans are also like this. We just have a few more team colours and a little less of a show.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    According to a few of my fb friends this is to be counted amongst the most devastating days in human US American history. Right up there with Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and when JFK got shot I guess. Felt like a Tuesday to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    According to a few of my fb friends this is to be counted amongst the most devastating days in human US American history. Right up there with Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and when JFK got shot I guess. Felt like a Tuesday to me.
    Your friends are dramatic little bitches.
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    There isnt a single government that sticks for the right of individuals to live by their own means. This is despite the booming economies of states which did so in the 50s.

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    Yeah, let's just forget about the debt and inflation. Maybe it will just go away because it's more important that we have a President that we like and it's more important to vote based on whether or not we were personally financially better off in the last four years, even if a lot of people weren't. Heh, but who cares about them as long as number 1 is okay.

    Cool story, guys. Cool story. Oh wait, FUCK, this is not fiction.

    Could we put a tag in the thread titled "the masses are asses". I feel it's worthy.
    Last edited by strangeling; 11-07-2012 at 02:02 PM.
    good bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I know that the political compass is not the ultimate tool to categorize the political belief of the people and its survey might also be questionable, but I'm prone to believe that there is indeed not so much difference between both (main) candidates.
    ...
    So while both men stand for different measures they promise to take, they are virtually identical from a philosophical point of view.
    Ugh. ftr, two people can share a philosophy and yet have a completely different approach to it. This is an incredible over-generalization.
    good bye

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    I'm relieved that Obama won because the G.O.P. freaks me the fuck out. But what really warms the cockles of my heart is the fact that recreational marijuana is now legal in two states, and gay marriage is now legal in two more states. America is (slowly) entering the 21st century.

    As for the economy: we're fucked. This is the new reality, and things will never, ever, ever go back to what they were before, no matter who gets elected President. Like, ever. [/Taylor Swift]
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I'm relieved that Obama won because the G.O.P. freaks me the fuck out. But what really warms the cockles of my heart is the fact that recreational marijuana is now legal in two states, and gay marriage is now legal in two more states. America is (slowly) entering the 21st century.
    into poverty.
    good bye

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    Guys, check this out. Apparently hugs are very important to our psychological development.

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/.../fulltext.html

    Which president is going to mandate hugs? Huh?? Huh??? Or make National Hug Day a national holiday? Hugs are free so they don't even cost money. If the United States is going to die because of the debt or whatever we should at least get hugs.

    EDIT: I am sorry this post is so random. I don't know why I did it. Sorry if I am getting annoying. I don't want to annoy anyone. I just thought it would be kind of funny.
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    aw animal that was a good post

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    Sorry, I have to keep editing it because I am OCD, lol. Here is what I said to squark.

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Whether Romney or Obama the result is the same. People flashing their team colors, and thinking there's a difference, and the abysmally small percentage of 3rd party votes tells me that people are morons. I live in a nation of idiots. More than 95% of the people voting today want everything to stay the same, they want to stay locked into the game of red and blue, my team against yours, and THEY DONT WANT TO THINK. They want to be told what to do, they want to believe they have no real choices, they want to keep the status quo . . . and they're happy as long as their team wins. More than 95% of people who voted today love the chains they're in, and want to wrap them tighter around themselves and others. They don't want freedom. They don't want choices. They don't want responsibility, they buy what they're fed, and never look to see what's in it. I don't support a 3rd party. I don't support any parties. I just want people to think and make real choices, but they're all too chicken shit that "the other team will win" that they won't do it. Disappointing, but not surprising.
    I don't think the lack of votes for third parties is the result of stupidity, so much as fear. And yes, it's a realistic fear. "The other guy might win" is what basically ended up happening in Florida in 2000, when some of the people who voted for Ralph Nader may have been able to swing the election in favor of Al Gore. I hate the two party supremacy, but things will not change until the perception that anything other than the Red or Blue is a viable and realistic option. This needs to be a movement from the ground up, and I think it's slowly moving that way with the ascendance of the Libertarian party. But I don't think we'll see anything like what you're hoping for within the next decade.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Sorry, I have to keep editing it because I am OCD, lol. Here is what I said to squark.


    I don't think the lack of votes for third parties is the result of stupidity, so much as fear. And yes, it's a realistic fear. "The other guy might win" is what basically ended up happening in Florida in 2000, when some of the people who voted for Ralph Nader may have been able to swing the election in favor of Al Gore. I hate the two party supremacy, but things will not change until the perception that anything other than the Red or Blue is a viable and realistic option. This needs to be a movement from the ground up, and I think it's slowly moving that way with the ascendance of the Libertarian party. But I don't think we'll see anything like what you're hoping for within the next decade.
    They're afraid of "the other guy" because they think there's a difference between the two. Remove the emotion of being part of a team/party, and it becomes much more obvious that they're all choosing the same side. In other words - there's nothing to be afraid of. They're not losing any more by having the other party win than they lose by having their own party win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    They're afraid of "the other guy" because they think there's a difference between the two. Remove the emotion of being part of a team/party, and it becomes much more obvious that they're all choosing the same side. In other words - there's nothing to be afraid of. They're not losing any more by having the other party win than they lose by having their own party win.
    Hmm... not sure if I agree that there's no difference between the two. We might see it along a continuum. Sure, most third parties diverge from either of the two dominant parties much more than the dominant parties diverge from each other. But that doesn't render the difference between the two dominant parties completely negligible. I agree that whether the Democrats or Republicans win the presidency won't necessarily result in much difference in terms of our mundane lives in actual practice, especially in terms of economic policy. But they do diverge in the social climate that they wish to aim for in this country, and I think that has more immediate repercussions on people's daily lives. There's also a visibility issue. Do you think Joe Schmoe out in Oklahoma really knows very much about any of the candidates running on a third party ticket? For every Joe Conscientious that votes the third party, there are a hundred Joe Schmoes who have no idea who any of the Libertarian or Green party candidates are. Until this shifts, until there's greater awareness and attention to alternatives, this won't change. Hell, the media basically ignored Libertarian Ron Paul even when he ran as a Republican this year and last.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Hmm... not sure if I agree that there's no difference between the two. We might see it along a continuum. Sure, most third parties diverge from either of the two dominant parties much more than the dominant parties diverge from each other. But that doesn't render the difference between the two dominant parties completely negligible. I agree that whether the Democrats or Republicans win the presidency won't necessarily result in much difference in terms of our mundane lives in actual practice, especially in terms of economic policy. But they do diverge in the social climate that they wish to aim for in this country, and I think that has more immediate repercussions on people's daily lives. There's also a visibility issue. Do you think Joe Schmoe out in Oklahoma really knows very much about any of the candidates running on a third party ticket? For every Joe Conscientious that votes the third party, there are a hundred Joe Schmoes who have no idea who any of the Libertarian or Green party candidates are. Until this shifts, until there's greater awareness and attention to alternatives, this won't change. Hell, the media basically ignored Libertarian Ron Paul even when he ran as a Republican this year and last.
    It's at a much more basic level than you're seeing. You're getting distracted by the same slight of hand that all those other people are. Dig deeper.

    since increasing power and influence to the state, loss of individual rights, greater control and monitoring of the people is the result (easily proven by looking at record) of BOTH parties, and both have the same basic goal of increasing their own power then voting for EITHER party is voting for that goal. Both benefit from people believing that they are on opposite sides, but they're two colors of the same side - the pro-state control side. Repubs benefit from Dems increasing state power, because they use it to their advantage when it's their turn in office, and Dems benefit when the Repubs increase it for the same reason.

    They take turns in office, and focus on all the "differences" between them to get people riled up and fighting for the "right" side, and nobody notices that it's always going in the same direction. The power is flowing to only one side continually, the side that both major parties support wholeheartedly - the state. And as long as people continue to let themselves be emotionally manipulated by the idea that they're making a real difference by choosing one over the other - it will continue to flow that way.

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