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Thread: Enneagram concept of subwings

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    Default Enneagram concept of subwings

    I'm sure most of you have heard of subwings at one point and may or may not have given it any heed. It's basically breaking down the Enneagram even further into more minute details. It gets a little ridiculous too when you blend tri-type with subwing. For instance if I wanted to guess my tri-type subwings it would be: 9w1(sw8w9)-6w7(sw5w6)-4w5(sw3w4). I'd like to see what your subwings are for your main type or even tri-type subwings if you'd like to delve further. If you think it's total tripe, which is completely understandable then please state why.

    Here is a link that gives some short basic descriptions of the subwings: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...r-tritype.html
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    are you fucking kidding me lol

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    Sounds like a wet Alpha NT dream. Anyhow, what's the point in putting some labels on yourself in the first place? I mean, the only place you're going to wear them is this forum, where people wank off to some idealised image they have created of themselves fighting imaginary foes hailing from different quadras.

    Would have to look into it, though.
    Last edited by Absurd; 11-05-2012 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    are you fucking kidding me lol
    Don't worry, I'm sure they'll think of something more ridiculous in due time like separate instinctual stackings for each tri-type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Sounds like a wet Alpha NT dream. Anyhow, what's the point in putting some labels on yourself in the first place? I mean, the only place you're going to wear them is this forum, where people wank off to some idealised image they have created of themselves fighting imaginary foes hailing from different quadras.

    Would have to look into it, though.
    I agree, I guess the only benefits from these labels is being recognized for fitting into a particular stereotype and knowing yourself in some abstract manner. Of course one does not need psychological theories to understand who they truly are. I think Enneagram takes this a little too far compared to other personality systems with their tri-types and subwings. Good thing Socionics doesn't go that far aside from the DCNH.
    Last edited by Raver; 11-05-2012 at 09:35 PM.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I agree, I guess the only benefits from these labels is being recognized for fitting into a particular stereotype and knowing yourself in some abstract manner. Of course one does not need psychological theories to understand who they truly are. I think Enneagram takes this a little too compared to other personality systems with their tri-types and subwings. Good thing Socionics doesn't go that far that aside from DCNH.
    Well yes, and it is not going to stop most people on here from changing their self-typings anyway, nothing wrong with that, but to make a big drama fest out of it, going "oh fucking hell, look at me, the poor sod, I need your acceptance so fuck me up my arse with your posts as to why and why not" is hilarious. For me, usually, the core is what I would want to end on, sure I can look deeper, but as to actually toy with, say, that string of numbers, looking for some kind of compatibility in other individual based on a compatible string of numbers to my own, is a waste of time. Time that I can consume in some other way, in the first place.

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    I just brought this up in the other thread. And beyond mental masturbation its primary purpose is an attempt to wring more explanatory power from a theory by layering it with itself. So it's something people can examine and discuss but its usefulness is questionable.

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    Your way is a bit out of style I believe.

    What, you're out of the loop? Now it's all about the triwing-tritype+instinct-wings 451(sp)w539(sx)-628(sp)w714(so)-954(sx)w847(sp)

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    Shit got trendy, glad Socionics, didn't...

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Your way is a bit out of style I believe.

    What, you're out of the loop? Now it's all about the triwing-tritype+instinct-wings 451(sp)w539(sx)-628(sp)w714(so)-954(sx)w847(sp)
    I can seriously imagining retards on eidb having serious discussions about this, I'm already mentally punching myself in the gut reading posts that don't exist.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    I'll just keep my E5, thanks.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Subwings are where I draw the line. Senseless hairsplitting that is easily covered by either tritype or generalized triad characteristics.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I can seriously imagining retards on eidb having serious discussions about this, I'm already mentally punching myself in the gut reading posts that don't exist.
    Lol
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Subwings are where I draw the line. Senseless hairsplitting that is easily covered by either tritype or generalized triad characteristics.
    I think they lie in the same level as tri-types imo. I find Enneagram, wings and instinctual stacking is enough. Tri-type and subwings falls into merely self-amusement, but to each their own I guess.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I think they lie in the same level as tri-types imo. I find Enneagram, wings and instinctual stacking is enough. Tri-type and subwings falls into merely self-amusement, but to each their own I guess.
    Idk I think tritype is a very natural outgrowth of the basics of enneagram theory. It only makes sense we would have a strategy for each inborn fixation.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Idk I think tritype is a very natural outgrowth of the basics of enneagram theory. It only makes sense we would have a strategy for each inborn fixation.
    Yeah I see what you're saying. Though the same argument could be used for subwings as in all its really doing is breaking down the wings further. I can see how the tri-types could be useful, but not any more or less than subwings imo.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Yeah I see what you're saying. Though the same argument could be used for subwings as in all its really doing is breaking down the wings further. I can see how the tri-types could be useful, but not any more or less than subwings imo.
    Well the thing is, tritypes are basically implied in the theory itself: we all possess the three centers, because they are very core instinctual drives in human survival. Subwings aren't implied in the theory, they are just adding extra shit on. Tritypes actually have theoretical basis, and IMO are very much observable in the way people deal with different aspects of their lives; subwings have no theoretical basis, serve no purpose other than to explain away incongruous minutia, and IMO the reality of their existence and whatever degree to which they are actually observable is just as easily accounted for by salient triad characteristics, especially in the case of the attachment triad types, which lie in the middle of each triad and inherently have characteristics of the surrounding types.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well the thing is, tritypes are basically implied in the theory itself: we all possess the three centers, because they are very core instinctual drives in human survival. Subwings aren't implied in the theory, they are just adding extra shit on. Tritypes actually have theoretical basis, and IMO are very much observable in the way people deal with different aspects of their lives; subwings have no theoretical basis, serve no purpose other than to explain away incongruous minutia, and IMO the reality of their existence and whatever degree to which they are actually observable is just as easily accounted for by salient triad characteristics, especially in the case of the attachment triad types, which lie in the middle of each triad and inherently have characteristics of the surrounding types.
    I agree that Tri-types can be more important than subwings in that they deal with the person's subconscious personality in great depth. Comparing this to Socionics would be like examining one's valued undeveloped functions I surmise. Subwings merely examine one's conscious personality in greater detail like pointing a magnifying glass at it as if it to notice the little differences between two very similar behaviour patterns. So I can see why you would find Tri-types more useful than subwings as micro analysis is often unnecessary and insignificant where as deeper self-exploration may yield more intriguing results. Their usefulness is dependent on where one's motivation lies whether that be examining their psyche in greater detail or exploring their personality's less prominent aspects.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I agree that Tri-types can be more important than subwings in that they deal with the person's subconscious personality in great depth. Comparing this to Socionics would be like examining one's valued undeveloped functions I surmise. Subwings merely examine one's conscious personality in greater detail like pointing a magnifying glass at it as if it to notice the little differences between two very similar behaviour patterns. So I can see why you would find Tri-types more useful than subwings as micro analysis is often unnecessary and insignificant where as deeper self-exploration may yield more intriguing results. Their usefulness is dependent on where one's motivation lies whether that be examining their psyche in greater detail or exploring their personality's less prominent aspects.
    I personally think this one level of extra detail is useless compared to the more thorough characterizations offered by tritypes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I personally think this one level of extra detail is useless compared to the more thorough characterizations offered by tritypes.
    Fair enough, we all have our preferences. Personally, I find both tri-types and subwings to be superfluous additions to the enneagram. Integration/disintegration does enough to explain the presence of other triads in our psyche imo.
    Last edited by Raver; 11-06-2012 at 04:41 AM.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Fair enough, we all have our preferences. Personally, I find both tri-types and subwings to be superfluous additions to the enneagram. Integration/disintegration does enough to explain the presence of other triads in our psyche imo.
    It's not really a preference, it's what I see as making the most sense in application and observation. Could you explain and show me a relatable example of someone with a subwing being different from one without? Because that's what I've been doing to back up my "preferences."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It's not really a preference, it's what I see as making the most sense in application and observation. Could you explain and show me a relatable example of someone with a subwing being different from one without? Because that's what I've been doing to back up my "preferences."
    That link I provided shows lots of short examples. If you want detailed explanations you can look at the ones Azeroffs posted a while back, which me and you both happened to post at:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...23-E6-subwings

    I'm not really going to argue for subwings because like I said before I don't take them seriously and it would be a very thin argument anyways. If you want me to say that tri-types are more important than subwings then I'll give you that given how much more they delve into the psyche, but I'm not going to say that I take them seriously either.
    Last edited by Raver; 11-06-2012 at 09:27 AM. Reason: typo
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    That link I provided shows lots of short examples. If you want detailed explanations you can look at the ones Azeroffs posted a while back, which me and you both happened to post at:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...23-E6-subwings

    I'm not really going to argue for subwings because like I said before I don't take them seriously and it would be a very thin argument anyways. If you want me to say that tri-types are more important than subwings then I'll give you that given how much more they delve into the psyche, but I'm not going to say that I take them seriously either.
    Fair enough. The descriptions seem sensical enough but it's just the kind of thing I would chalk up to having a strong wing.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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