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    Default Self-hypnosis

    I just discovered self-hypnosis yesterday. I would be interested in hearing peoples experiences from this.

    I knew from before that hypnosis works, that suggestion technique works, but I didn't know that self-hypnosis is possible.

    I found some instructions on the internet and basically did this:

    First a comfortable position, eyes closed, general relaxation, breath relaxed.

    When I felt relaxed I visualized that I wrote my name, and underneath my name the word "trance". I then stopped for awhile, and wrote the same thing again.

    I imagined writing this for about 4 times, ny name and "trance" under it. I tried to concentrate on visualizing the words as well as possible.

    Then suddenly something happened: I felt how my awareness changed, it became sharper in a way, or maybe one could say that my mind went into a small "freeze". It was a shock for me, it frightened me, because it happened as if by itself a short while after I had stopped the writing. I hadn't expected this.

    I also tried picturing writing my name and the word "hypnosis" under it. After repeating it for about 3-4 times I felt something like darkness around me and falling asleep while still being conscious. Like being in a very light sleep or lucid dream.

    I experimented with it today again. First general relaxation and eyes closed. Then same as yesterday with the writing etc. but also counting to 10 and telling me that I will fall in trance at 10. It worked, not when I reached 10 but a very short while after. Today I wasn't so worried because I knew it would happen. But I am still surprised how well this works. The state of strong trance only works for a minute or so, then it gets lighter.

    The trance was like a narrowing of my mind to the senses, for a short period I felt like I was only senses, and nothing else. The thing that amazes me is that I didn't try to focus on it, it just happened from the suggestion.

    The feeling itself is not so frightening, but a little unusual at first. But the first time it happened it was such a surprise that I almost jumped out of bed.

    To end the session I counted from 10 to 1 in my head, and told me that when I reach 1 I can open my eyes and wake up feeling all nice and good.

    It's alterned counsciousness, but not sleep. It's probably a good idea to be careful, and just try a little at a time, before one gets used to this new experience. Maybe this new hobby will help me forget socionics, lol!

    Anyone tried it?

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    I have not but what is lucid dreaming like? Do you enjoy it and still feel rested?
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    I don't think I could. other people have tried hypnotizing me and it didn't work either. they werent professionals so it was probably just that. maybe. but I just don't think I can be hypnotized easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I have not but what is lucid dreaming like? Do you enjoy it and still feel rested?
    You dream while you know that you are dreaming. It's deep sleep and you can for example decide what to do in the dream. But sometimes it can go into lighter sleep, so you are almost waking up but not quite. It can be possible to control the sleep from "within" (kindof like in film "Matrix"), I sometimes make myself wake up, trying to break through the sleep. It can be difficult but it usually works. It's interesting but I haven't had lucid dreams for some time now.

    The hypnosis felt like a really light lucid dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I don't think I could. other people have tried hypnotizing me and it didn't work either. they werent professionals so it was probably just that. maybe. but I just don't think I can be hypnotized easily.
    I didn't think it was possible either or I didn't know what to think. I just tried it for fun or whatever, and then it was such a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    You dream while you know that you are dreaming. It's deep sleep and you can for example decide what to do in the dream. But sometimes it can go into lighter sleep, so you are almost waking up but not quite. It can be possible to control the sleep from "within" (kindof like in film "Matrix"), I sometimes make myself wake up, trying to break through the sleep. It can be difficult but it usually works. It's interesting but I haven't had lucid dreams for some time now.

    The hypnosis felt like a really light lucid dream.
    That's so cool! I actually get angry when I dream. I mean, that's a bit strong. Things in my dreams won't go the way I want them to and I get frustrated. How did you learn to control your dreams' direction?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I don't think I could. other people have tried hypnotizing me and it didn't work either. they werent professionals so it was probably just that. maybe. but I just don't think I can be hypnotized easily.
    Some people have much higher thresholds for suggestibility than others, so yours is probably on the higher side.

    I tried to perform some simple hypnosis experiments on myself a while back, like the "imagine your hand is as light as a feather/heavy as a bowling ball" or "you're glued to the chair" etc. At no point did any of it have considerable effect on me, regardless of how much I tried to lose control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    You dream while you know that you are dreaming. It's deep sleep and you can for example decide what to do in the dream. But sometimes it can go into lighter sleep, so you are almost waking up but not quite. It can be possible to control the sleep from "within" (kindof like in film "Matrix"), I sometimes make myself wake up, trying to break through the sleep. It can be difficult but it usually works. It's interesting but I haven't had lucid dreams for some time now.

    The hypnosis felt like a really light lucid dream.
    In my experience, lucid dreaming doesn't inherently allow me to control my dreams as they're happening. What happens more often than not is that I'm aware of my dream state, but whenever I try to gain conscious agency over what's happening the confines of the world that's already been constructed don't oblige, or at least not in as dramatic a way as the literature would have me think.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    That's so cool! I actually get angry when I dream. I mean, that's a bit strong. Things in my dreams won't go the way I want them to and I get frustrated. How did you learn to control your dreams' direction?
    http://www.theatlantic.com/video/arc...eaming/263910/

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    This sounds interesting, I'll give it a try. Reminds me of binaural beats, which produces a similar result as a result of listening to unique sounds that transform your brain wave patterns in the process. It did give me a lucid dreaming like feeling while I was awake, which did enable a greater amount of self awareness and self exploration.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats

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    The fastest and (imho) best method is autogenic training. It is best used for general relaxation and as a sleep aid (basic level). The advanced levels of autogenic training can also be used for permanent improvement through autosuggestions. Also, you get better after a while. I use it only occasionally, but reaching the first steps is a matter of seconds. I have not tried to change my behavior with it, though.

    Somehow, this is some kind of anti-meditation. If you meditate, you try to free your mind from any thoughts, by repeating a mantra which has no meaning. However, you do not try to eliminate your thoughts in autogenic training, but actively use them for your purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Somehow, this is some kind of anti-meditation. If you meditate, you try to free your mind from any thoughts, by repeating a mantra which has no meaning. However, you do not try to eliminate your thoughts in autogenic training, but actively use them for your purposes.
    No. You've just repeated christian propaganda against buddhist and hindu contemplative practices, which xian detractors often claim produce a spiritual vacuuousness that invites the infiltration of demonic spirits. In other words it's silly shit to scare peasants and children. And even if one were to chase all thoughts away it would only be with another thought, just as exhaling underwater produces bubbles by using one substance to temporarily displace another.

    In the way that I learned meditation, one:
    • approaches it with direct purpose
    • remains situated in the immediate experience of the moment by focusing on the breath
    • allows thoughts to arise and depart — as they naturally do — without attempting to stifle or become attached to any of them
    • maintains a central guiding idea

    The following is adapted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satipatthana:

    In the Buddhist tradition, satipaṭṭhāna refers to the establishing, foundation, or presence of "mindfulness". The four foundations of mindfulness are:
    1. mindfulness of the body
    2. mindfulness of feelings (or sensations)
    3. mindfulness of mind (or consciousness)
    4. mindfulness of mental phenomena (or mental objects)

    Mindfulness is a way of implementing "right mindfulness" and the "right concentration" parts of buddhism's Noble Eightfold Path. Mindful meditation develops the mental factors of insight (vipassana) and calm (samatha). It is practiced most often in the context of Theravada Buddhism although the principles are also practiced in most traditions of Buddhism which emphasize meditation such as the Sōtō Zen tradition.

    See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapanasati_Sutta#Benefits

    So as you see, contrary to stereotypes, meditation is very intentional and meaningful.

    This autogenic training you've mentioned looks like an antiseptic Occidental co-option of Oriental practices that have been established for well over two-thousand years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    No. You've just repeated christian propaganda against buddhist and hindu contemplative practices, which xian detractors often claim produce a spiritual vacuuousness that invites the infiltration of demonic spirits.
    I didn't know that this was nothing but propaganda, I thought this was actually the way meditation should be seen (also as a self-image). Then again, I don't know much about it, so I did repeat it because it seemed plausible to me. I also didn't mean it in a derogatory way or wanted AT to appear superior to meditation if you possibly thought that.

    EDIT: Okay, I said the "best" method. But only because I had problems with meditation.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    So as you see, contrary to stereotypes, meditation is very intentional and meaningful.
    I didn't question that.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    This autogenic training you've mentioned looks like an antiseptic Occidental co-option of Oriental practices that have been established for well over two-thousand years.
    Well, yeah. I think AT takes the relaxation component from meditation, "eliminates" all the spiritual content and makes use of its side effects rather than the deeper meaning of meditation. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I don't think I could. other people have tried hypnotizing me and it didn't work either. they werent professionals so it was probably just that. maybe. but I just don't think I can be hypnotized easily.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1003195139.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I didn't know that this was nothing but propaganda, I thought this was actually the way meditation should be seen (also as a self-image). Then again, I don't know much about it, so I did repeat it because it seemed plausible to me. I also didn't mean it in a derogatory way or wanted AT to appear superior to meditation if you possibly thought that.
    My only reason for objecting is because that's a very common misconception that, like all others, limits thought and poisons knowledge. However you've got a good working brain so I doubt you'd have expressed these ideas if you'd already learned that they were untrue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I didn't question that.
    Actually you did, with "If you meditate, you try to free your mind from any thoughts, by repeating a mantra which has no meaning." I said meditation is an intentional action because it arises from a desire and has certain goals as its objectives, so it is intentional both in being an exercise of will as well as giving conscious attention to specific objects of contemplation. I also said it's meaningful because it cultivates an intuitive means of arriving at useful insights into the the nature of being as well as producing benefits to body and mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Well, yeah. I think AT takes the relaxation component from meditation, "eliminates" all the spiritual content and makes use of its side effects rather than the deeper meaning of meditation. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
    To me the similarity of the vehicles implies that they're capable of arriving at the same destinations. The most apparent difference I see is that AT is more consciously programmatic and bodily-centered in its personal-improvement methodology, while eastern meditation takes a more intuitive approach that often seeks to move the individual's focus of attention beyond the self.

    Anyhow I'm not an expert on this topic, and I am just pointing all this out for clarity's sake and not to start an argument.

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    so instead of meaning i'm less suggestible, it means i'm worse at making decisions and prioritizing? awesome

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    For hypnotherapy: If a person can imagine, that imagination can be used to guide the person into a 'state' in which a hypnotherapeutic agenda can be utilized. However, this also implies desire and willingness on the hypnotee's side. If the hypnotee alters the guided imagery, then it creates a mismatch between what hypnotee is imagining, and what the hypnotists thinks the hypnotee is imagining. Self-hypnosis can easily be used for self-hypnotherapy, but the self-hypnotizer would do well creating a script and recording it to hear during hypnosis, or else the self-hypnotist will have to retain a larger portion of their ability to critique what to say and when to say it, which has the added drawback of rejecting what they tell themselves, even if they want to believe it. (affirmations)

    For stage-hypnosis, and what you might have seen on 'reality' tv, the hypnotist puts the audience through a series of tests to filter for people who are either easily suggestible or are willing to 'act' hypnotized. In the tv hypnosis experiments, there's a lot of filtering and rejecting that goes on off camera.

    As to what it feels like... There are primarily three styles.
    One style is to suddenly break a habitual pattern (such as shaking hands) with something so completely off the wall that the hypnotee is temporarily shocked, allowing the hypnotist to slip in a phrase or two before the hypnotee has time to process everything that just happened.
    A second style is to disperse the hypnotee's focus into a dream-like, foggy state, and then add on some suggestions, usually in the form of repeated affirmations.
    A third style is to guide the hypnotee's focus, often to a very narrow focus. The more tunnel-like the focus, the less critiquing the hypnotee is capable of. This is also a way of loosening the hypnotee's tongue such that they will offer information and insight that they might normally hold to themselves. However, this information does not necessarily mean truth, it could just be a temporary imagined idea that bubbled up.

    On a personal note, I strongly dislike...perhaps am disgusted by...the attitudes that seem to pervade the hypnotists who promote and mainly utilize the disruption style (the first style I described). They puff themselves up to 'god-likeness', but rarely if ever stick around long enough to see what, if any, the actual effects turned out to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    [video]

    That kind of disruption is acceptable. At least he caught the guy so the guy wouldn't fall.
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    Never tried it and never had it done unto me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    but the self-hypnotizer would do well creating a script and recording it to hear during hypnosis, or else the self-hypnotist will have to retain a larger portion of their ability to critique what to say and when to say it, which has the added drawback of rejecting what they tell themselves, even if they want to believe it. (affirmations)
    Yes, I found this to be a problem. When I get into self-hypnosis I can't relax and just give myself into the hands of the suggestor. I have to think what to do next. That's frustrating. I have tried hypnosis with a friend once before. I remember the relaxing feeling of just waiting for the next suggestion. Kind of like listening to a fairy tale, and wanting it to continue and continue... Actually, listening to stories is a light form of hypnosis or trance, in children it can become very strong.

    For stage-hypnosis, and what you might have seen on 'reality' tv, the hypnotist puts the audience through a series of tests to filter for people who are either easily suggestible or are willing to 'act' hypnotized. In the tv hypnosis experiments, there's a lot of filtering and rejecting that goes on off camera.
    haha, that's smart. And a little disappointing.


    A third style is to guide the hypnotee's focus, often to a very narrow focus. The more tunnel-like the focus, the less critiquing the hypnotee is capable of.
    I think this is the purpose of imagining writing your name and a word underneath, as I described in my OP. You are so busy doing (or imagining) it that the message goes straight into your unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    The fastest and (imho) best method is autogenic training. It is best used for general relaxation and as a sleep aid (basic level).
    The article mentioned suggestions such as "your arm is heavy", "...is warm". These are good in the beginning because they are easy to fulfill and then one gets more and more sensitive to further suggestions. The interesting thing is that these are pretty simple or concrete compared to the suggestions I learned, "you are going into a trance"? How did my unconscious know what "a trance" is so it could fulfill the suggestion. Kindof spooky when one thinks about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    The interesting thing is that these are pretty simple or concrete compared to the suggestions I learned, "you are going into a trance"? How did my unconscious know what "a trance" is so it could fulfill the suggestion. Kindof spooky when one thinks about it.
    Yes, I think simple suggestions are quite effective. To be successful, it's also very important to use a "positive" wording. If you get nervous when you have to speak to a larger group of people, don't suggest yourself "I don't want to get nervous every time I'm giving a speech" but "I will be calm and relaxed every time...". The former would most likely have a negative effect.

    I can imagine that a suggestion which contains words you have never heard of might have no effect at all. You know what the state of trance is and so does your subconsciousness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I can imagine that a suggestion which contains words you have never heard of might have no effect at all. You know what the state of trance is and so does your subconsciousness.
    Do I? I could imagine what it is, but I haven't really experienced it before. Also the word "hypnosis" works as suggestion. But i haven't been in hypnosis before. Yet the mind knows how to fulfill these commands.

    Yes, I think simple suggestions are quite effective.
    I've heard that some very simple self-fulfilling suggestions like "you feel relaxed" are great in the beginning (when you close your eyes and try to relax, of course you will feel relaxed). It doesn't matter if we know that these things would happen anyway. When the hypnotizer says these words, the mind notices that the suggestion works, and becomes even more sensitive for more complex suggestions.

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    The "Yes" technique, commonly used in sales pitches. Saying things in which the critical mind could observe and agree that yes, this is happening. The more yes's it will agree to without getting bored, then the more likely it will accept suggestions that it can't readily observe at that moment.

    One of my favorite induction techniques is referred to as the 5-4-3-2-1 technique. With this technique I don't have to worry about doing convincers like the arm raises, nor the progressive relaxations like "your arm is feeling heavy and relaxed", etc. this technique requires the hypnotist (even self-hypnotist) to make a series of 5 statements. The first set states 4 things which the hypnotee can readily observe and agree to (such as you heard the honking of a car horn, you hear the outside birds chirping, you hear the ticking of a clock, under your hands you feel the arms of your chair), then adds one suggestion (such as your eyes feel ready to close). The next set states 3 readily observable things then 2 suggestons. And so on until you've done 1 readily observable followed by 4 suggestions. Each set gradually becoming more inward focused. From here, I'll do a deepening technique if I'm hypnotizing someone else, or I will structure my self-hypnosis suggestions in a similar way, remembering to throw in readily observable statements as needed to get back to "yes".



    As for your mind/body 'knowing' what a trance state is, the state you go into is a combination of what you believe a 'trance' state is like, and what you expect to experience in such a state. Often this is built off what we've read or heard about, what we've seen on tv, what the inductor told us it was and what to expect, etc. If you believe you won't be able to talk during it, then you likely won't be able to talk during it. If you believe you'll forget everything that happened during it, then you likely won't remember anything about it when you're out of it. If you believe the hypnotist can make you do things you wouldn't normally do (like quack like a duck when he snaps his fingers), then you'll likely quack like a duck when he snaps his fingers.

    (btw, these beliefs and expectations are a lot of what's filtered for for stage/tv hypnosis)
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    The "Yes" technique, commonly used in sales pitches. Saying things in which the critical mind could observe and agree that yes, this is happening. The more yes's it will agree to without getting bored, then the more likely it will accept suggestions that it can't readily observe at that moment.

    One of my favorite induction techniques is referred to as the 5-4-3-2-1 technique. With this technique I don't have to worry about doing convincers like the arm raises, nor the progressive relaxations like "your arm is feeling heavy and relaxed", etc. this technique requires the hypnotist (even self-hypnotist) to make a series of 5 statements. The first set states 4 things which the hypnotee can readily observe and agree to (such as you heard the honking of a car horn, you hear the outside birds chirping, you hear the ticking of a clock, under your hands you feel the arms of your chair), then adds one suggestion (such as your eyes feel ready to close). The next set states 3 readily observable things then 2 suggestons. And so on until you've done 1 readily observable followed by 4 suggestions. Each set gradually becoming more inward focused. From here, I'll do a deepening technique if I'm hypnotizing someone else, or I will structure my self-hypnosis suggestions in a similar way, remembering to throw in readily observable statements as needed to get back to "yes".
    These are good ideas. You seem to have a lot of experience in this.


    As for your mind/body 'knowing' what a trance state is, the state you go into is a combination of what you believe a 'trance' state is like, and what you expect to experience in such a state. Often this is built off what we've read or heard about, what we've seen on tv, what the inductor told us it was and what to expect, etc.
    After thinking about this: I would add that trance/hypnosis is also a some kind of natural/biological phenomenon that happens in many cultures. There's some built-in mechanism that happens in the mind. So even though my concept of trance/hypnosis is not very clear, the mind can work according to it's own laws and fulfill the suggestion.

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