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Thread: Offering examples of Fi

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Offering examples of Fi

    Here are some examples of Fi, through my life and experiences.

    1. My father, being SLI type and rather emotionally reserved, is a dutiful man. His primary concern or focus was to take care of us financially and physically. He's a man of very few expressions and so verbal expression of feelings were something we missed out on. At one point in my childhood development, I made a value, a rule so to say that parents who loved their kids, and truly loved them would/should on occasion express these sentiments of love rather than just showing them through duty or providing for them. In my emotionally expressive way, I went up to my dad and crying (literally in pouring tears) told him, or asked and I can't tell which it was "dad, you're supposed to say 'I love you' to us sometimes'." I think my parents both got the point of how sensitive I was to expressions of love.

    2. When I was in Junior High a friend, a neighbor, took the Bible my mother had given us to read to keep ourselves occupied and decided she was upset and moved enough to destroy it. She began to shred the pages of the tiny Bible and throw them in the trash. I had formed certain values, again, at that point that certain books or maybe it was all books/bounded materials had something important to say hence one SHOULD not destroy them. I proceeded to "instruct" her in my mild manner, trying to explain to her that books had something of value we could all share in and that I thought it was inappropriate of her to be so violent with the book. She just threw it at me and walked away; I was not expecting this action and was rather bewildered at her protest. I did not like it, casting judgment on her ACTION. It was not the right thing to do. Because of her temperament and her extremes in mood, I thought this was an individual who I could not be around regularly because I didn't have enough energy or will to want to constantly instruct her, seeing as though her logic would not overcome her emotion. I could see this about her in my way. The first thought came to my mind about her was "you're not going to change."

    3. I would think that I've always felt a certain weakness for all things around me. A certain sensitivity to purposeful harm of creatures. Yes, I know I kill countless bacteria and microorganisms but there's something morbid and cruel about killing that which you can see, and especially see suffer before you. I've always taken spiders out and whenever possible, tried to recycle natural food/plants. I feel the connectedness of nature and the artificiality of our constructs. Each things, a spider, I've made personification in my own mind. It has feelings just as I would, it will hurt if I touch it a certain way, hence I must be gentle with it. There's an overwhelming need to take care of things because of this feeling resonance of these creatures within me. Or at least, to try not to harm.

    4. I can hear my mother's Fi activation in the sound of my voice as I rant about how wrong it is that such and such a person is not supporting someone because they think they are high and mighty and because they think they are the only people deserving or entitled to certain human rights, completely disregarding humanity but rather being choosy based on what clan they want to support. I'm talking here about someone who would rather side with one's ethnic culture and place everyone else down, even if those people are close relatives. It's wrong. And, I often have no trouble expressing why they are wrong and how people should really see things, and when I do, I have no trouble being very bright, expressive and blunt about them. When I do, my mom usually follows with gestures of approval, paralleling my sentiments. These may be, “yes, they think they have it all together, maybe they should look at their own kids and judge them and their families before they do to others.”

    5. I have been the type of person who doesn't hold grudges. I don't know why. I'll get upset and hold my high moral ground but soon, the identification with individual circumstances or the understanding of life's challenges and difficulties, as well as a broad understanding of human psychological tendencies, allows this otherwise unforgivable affair to be empathized with. I can't remember the last time anyone did anything specifically malicious towards me, I hope they're not doing it now

    I want to find a good example of this, this is one way in which my feelings, creative thinking, takes place and one way in which I come to use what I am.

    6. I'm highly prone to feelings of trapped guilt even though some things are just part of human nature, it imprints in my memory and I carry them with me, in agony. I can't let some feeling go easily. When i was 9, my dual cousin sent me a lovely blue dress to wear on my way to see her thousands of miles away. I was in love with that dress and not so much because it was glorious looking, but because someone thought of me when sending it, it made me feel so loved and special. It was also one of the very few things I didn't want to give away. My cousin fell in love with the dress too, but I was insistent upon keeping it. She cried over it, but so did I. My mom decided since it was sent to me that I should keep it but I tried to have her send it to my cousin as soon as my dual cousin saw that I was wearing it. I wore it very proudly. I also feel so guilty and sad that I couldn't give the dress up to that little cousin of mine who didn't have a dress like it. I felt bad that I, who didn't mind much about material things, could feel so attached to this dress and why I didn't let go of it then is a mystery, what over came me? But her, her tears, her fragile tears out of longing for this dress makes me cry every time I think about it and I wish, secretly that I there's something I've given her in the future that took that pain that I caused away. There's a part of me that would like that she never remember that dress, but I know people all too well, they feel, she feels a sense of being ignored by me, by others around her for her love of this dress. I denied her something....I was only 9 and I girl in love with the dress that her cousin sent her. I didn't want to let go of both things. I wish I had been wiser and had not been so proud.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-22-2012 at 03:13 PM.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Hah I just figured people said what they felt or didn't say what they felt but felt what they didn't say. The end. Merry Christmas.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I can't understand either comment.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LOL, Muni. That's a sweet old grandma. (I don't want to see what she's stashing).

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    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Here are some examples of Fi, through my life and experiences.

    I want to find a good example of this, this is one way in which my feelings, creative thinking, takes place and one way in which I come to use what I am. ... I'm highly prone to feelings of trapped guilt even though some things are just part of human nature, it imprints in my memory and I carry them with me, in agony.
    This is an example of your mobilizing Si, possibly working in tandem with your lead Fi. You see, Si is not comfort, but the stability of the inner body state. This has an important impact on Ne. Here is why. Your memory is tied to changes in inner body state. For example, we all know that you cannot remember what you did when you were drunk, but somehow, if you drink again, you can remember what you did the previous time you were drunk. This is because you can best access the parts of your memory that were created when you inner body state matches your present state.

    The mobilizing Si is a subconscious function that is co-temporal with associative thinking. It is felt like this: the person with creative Ne becomes moody when they attempt the use of Ne. The moodiness is the constant shifting of the inner body state to facilitate the rapid mental associations that make the substance of creative Ne. Mobilizing Si creates a tendency for the LII and EII to both experience "imprints in .. memory <that are> carried ... in agony."

    She should further experience mobilizing Si as a wistful spaciness as her inner body state should be out of synchronization with the needs of the moment, and she should manifest certain behaviors like pacing, or staring at objects that she really does not see, but merely fixates on.

    Maritsa’s creative Ne should be the outward and productive face of her lead Fi. But it should leave her in bondage to psychological ghosts that swirl around her as if she is a figure frozen in time, as haunting and lost to others as the past is to herself.
     
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    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    Fi is a very different animal when paired with Ne-Si than with Ni-Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Fi is a very different animal when paired with Ne-Si than with Ni-Se.
    It is, just as Ti becomes global in Betas, Fi becomes global in Deltas -- the inverse for Alpha and Gamma, of course.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    This is an example of your mobilizing Si, possibly working in tandem with your lead Fi. You see, Si is not comfort, but the stability of the inner body state. This has an important impact on Ne. Here is why. Your memory is tied to changes in inner body state. For example, we all know that you cannot remember what you did when you were drunk, but somehow, if you drink again, you can remember what you did the previous time you were drunk. This is because you can best access the parts of your memory that were created when you inner body state matches your present state.

    The mobilizing Si is a subconscious function that is co-temporal with associative thinking. It is felt like this: the person with creative Ne becomes moody when they attempt the use of Ne. The moodiness is the constant shifting of the inner body state to facilitate the rapid mental associations that make the substance of creative Ne. Mobilizing Si creates a tendency for the LII and EII to both experience "imprints in .. memory <that are> carried ... in agony."

    She should further experience mobilizing Si as a wistful spaciness as her inner body state should be out of synchronization with the needs of the moment, and she should manifest certain behaviors like pacing, or staring at objects that she really does not see, but merely fixates on.

    Maritsa’s creative Ne should be the outward and productive face of her lead Fi. But it should leave her in bondage to psychological ghosts that swirl around her as if she is a figure frozen in time, as haunting and lost to others as the past is to herself.
    How did you figure that out?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I think the pattern is that I make a universal feeling about something, and then apply it. I notice this when reading Dostoyevski, he makes generalizations about the quality of the parent if they don't do certain things to his desired way or liking and from that he casts strong judgements on them; I'm speaking about Fyodor, the father of the Karamazov brothers. If you look at it as though it is a red carpet or a general way to be, and each person gets placed along the lines of this carpet, are they in it first of all, and if they are, where are they placed, inside, on the edge, did they lie at one point and now are no longer on this carpet. I find usually that the size of this carpet (representing the general principle) doesn't change much or doesn't seem to over time. One example of what might be a carpet by which others are judged is how a parent is towards their kids.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    These are cool examples but they all focus on the emotional expression of the individual(s) involved. Everyone has emotions and well all express them so I'm not slighting you for that however, I'd expect 'Fi examples' to have a depth of emotional insight regardless of the visible expression involved. Something that was more focused on the history of the individuals perhaps.

    I suppose an example would be something akin to; "Bob and I were at the store when Jim put on a red sweatshirt, Bob didn't say anything however I knew red sweatshirts bothered him because of his history with the GAP clothing line. I purposely spilled ketchup on Jim's shirt for two reasons, so he'd take it off thereby making Bob more comfortable and because a red stain would be hard to spot."
    Easy Day

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    These are cool examples but they all focus on the emotional expression of the individual(s) involved. Everyone has emotions and well all express them so I'm not slighting you for that however, I'd expect 'Fi examples' to have a depth of emotional insight regardless of the visible expression involved. Something that was more focused on the history of the individuals perhaps.

    I suppose an example would be something akin to; "Bob and I were at the store when Jim put on a red sweatshirt, Bob didn't say anything however I knew red sweatshirts bothered him because of his history with the GAP clothing line. I purposely spilled ketchup on Jim's shirt for two reasons, so he'd take it off thereby making Bob more comfortable and because a red stain would be hard to spot."
    Actually, emotions are inside so that expression isn't readily available and what is is either a reaction to things outside of one's values, beliefs and understandings (a judgement on these reactions). I knew what bothered ME and others. I knew what bothered my cousin but i'm not removed from myself either.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Actually, emotions are inside so that expression isn't readily available and what is is either a reaction to things outside of one's values, beliefs and understandings (a judgement on these reactions). I knew what bothered ME and others. I knew what bothered my cousin but i'm not removed from myself either.
    I don't think that Fe values or Fi values necessitate being emotionally removed from situations or individuals. I also disagree with the statement that emotions are strictly internal. They may be internal however the internal or external emphasis differs based on which of the ethical functions an individual values.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    How did you figure that out?
    I am creative Ne, mobilizing Si too (an LII) - plus I have been reading some untranslated Russian stuff!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I am creative Ne, mobilizing Si too (an LII) - plus I have been reading some untranslated Russian stuff!
    But the interesting thing is that Si base types also do what I do with regards to Si mobilizing, as you've mentioned. Now, with that being true, how can one distinguish SEI, SLI from EII and LII?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I don't think that Fe values or Fi values necessitate being emotionally removed from situations or individuals. I also disagree with the statement that emotions are strictly internal. They may be internal however the internal or external emphasis differs based on which of the ethical functions an individual values.
    I'm not saying they are strictly inside, I should have said Fi is motivated by internal characters and internal values. Outwardly an Fi base may be melancholically emotional but not hysterical like SEI or Fe can be.

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    The Si mobilizing is subconscious. That means it is something that is outside of the users control, and it always preceeds the use of Ne. It is also a weak function. This means they have little understanding of it. Imagine a LII is at a coffee shop with an SEI. The LIIs subconscious and weak Si mobilzation will make him seem slightly spacey, and prone to sudden shifts in mood. The LII will also not be strongly aware of this ... nor will he be aware of other people's comfort or mood.

    The SEI will be very aware of this, and was the one that suggested going to the coffee shop to begin with! He would be aware of the comfort and moods of everyone, and so would be the apparent leader of the trip, suggesting items of purchase making note of how the atmosphere serves to create and stablize the group's enjoyment of the outing. The SEI can be moody, but will be strongly aware of his mood shifting and will want to LEAD others to a new experience - another bar across town, or will suggest a awesome place to vacation, and then take the group to a bar across the street to plan for it. The LII would be blind to the effect of his mood on others, would not really sense that his mood changed and so on. The SEI would STRONGLY notice these changes, either in himself or others and would be proactive in modifying his and others experiences to regain control of it.
     
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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I'm not saying they are strictly inside, I should have said Fi is motivated by internal characters and internal values. Outwardly an Fi base may be melancholically emotional but not hysterical like SEI or Fe can be.
    Well, yes and no. I've met @munenori2 and, don't get me wrong, he's awesome. Just being around him is caffeine incarnate. However even he, the arbiter of awesome, the harbinger of party, the fabricator of fun times, is chill occasionally.
    Easy Day

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    The Si mobilizing is subconscious. That means it is something that is outside of the users control, and it always preceeds the use of Ne. It is also a weak function. This means they have little understanding of it. Imagine a LII is at a coffee shop with an SEI. The LIIs subconscious and weak Si mobilzation will make him seem slightly spacey, and prone to sudden shifts in mood. The LII will also not be strongly aware of this ... nor will he be aware of other people's comfort or mood.

    The SEI will be very aware of this, and was the one that suggested going to the coffee shop to begin with! He would be aware of the comfort and moods of everyone, and so would be the apparent leader of the trip, suggesting items of purchase making note of how the atmosphere serves to create and stablize the group's enjoyment of the outing. The SEI can be moody, but will be strongly aware of his mood shifting and will want to LEAD others to a new experience - another bar across town, or will suggest a awesome place to vacation, and then take the group to a bar across the street to plan for it. The LII would be blind to the effect of his mood on others, would not really sense that his mood changed and so on. The SEI would STRONGLY notice these changes, either in himself or others and would be proactive in modifying his and others experiences to regain control of it.
    I agree with this. I found an old thread "Conversations with Maritsa Go here" started by Minde; in this thread, she senses the overwhelming pressure exerted on me with answering questions and how that might overwhelm me. She attempts to provide assurance and comfort to me despite my suggestion that my level of comfort in the most efficient manner is to answer one post at a time...here you will see the interaction between Si and rigid Fi...

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ations+maritsa
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post630264

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Well, I've already asked a few things that it would still be nice to know the answers to. And there are probably a million other things I could potentially ask, too, depending on where conversation goes. Asking questions is something I do a lot of. But I need to know if you're up for answering my questions, otherwise I don't see the point in doing a lot of talking with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Ask me one at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Why not list them all at once and let you answer them one at a time, in whatever order you want?

    Just because someone asks you a bunch of questions all at once doesn't mean you need to answer them immediately at all at once. Particularly in an online environment, you have as much time as you need to formulate your thoughts and answers. That's one of the nice things about a forum like this, that there is hardly ever any pressing need to react quickly.
    Understated way of saying "no pressure" or "be comfortable" or "take comfort"
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-23-2012 at 04:52 AM.

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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Hey, nutcase, you can't whine for Minde to leave you alone and then begin not just speaking her name but also characterizing her actions in a manner that is beneficial to your agenda. You're being an instigator and a hypocrite. Control yourself and stop inventing pretexts to cry later with this needle-dicking bullshit. It's stupid, pathetic, and indicative of obsessive mental illness.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Hey, nutcase, you can't whine for Minde to leave you alone and then begin not just speaking her name but also characterizing her actions in a manner that is beneficial to your agenda. You're being an instigator and a hypocrite. Control yourself and stop inventing pretexts to cry later with this needle-dicking bullshit. It's stupid, pathetic, and indicative of obsessive mental illness.
    Um...I tried that and it didn't work. The point was very obvious. Si base is very comfortable with approaching things/tasks to their comfort while she noticed that I react quickly to things that come up. It was a good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    My father, being SLI type and rather emotionally reserved, is a dutiful man. His primary concern or focus was to take care of us financially and physically. He's a man of very few expressions and so verbal expression of feelings were something we missed out on. At one point in my childhood development, I made a value, a rule so to say that parents who loved their kids, and truly loved them would/should on occasion express these sentiments of love rather than just showing them through duty or providing for them. In my emotionally expressive way, I went up to my dad and crying (literally in pouring tears) told him, or asked and I can't tell which it was "dad, you're supposed to say 'I love you' to us sometimes'." I think my parents both got the point of how sensitive I was to expressions of love.
    My SLI dad is like this too. My parents in general just do not naturally engage in much emotional "touchy feel-y" behavior. It is painful.

    I'm highly prone to feelings of trapped guilt even though some things are just part of human nature, it imprints in my memory and I carry them with me, in agony. I can't let some feeling go easily. When i was 9, my dual cousin sent me a lovely blue dress to wear on my way to see her thousands of miles away. I was in love with that dress and not so much because it was glorious looking, but because someone thought of me when sending it, it made me feel so loved and special. It was also one of the very few things I didn't want to give away. My cousin fell in love with the dress too, but I was insistent upon keeping it. She cried over it, but so did I. My mom decided since it was sent to me that I should keep it but I tried to have her send it to my cousin as soon as my dual cousin saw that I was wearing it. I wore it very proudly. I also feel so guilty and sad that I couldn't give the dress up to that little cousin of mine who didn't have a dress like it. I felt bad that I, who didn't mind much about material things, could feel so attached to this dress and why I didn't let go of it then is a mystery, what over came me? But her, her tears, her fragile tears out of longing for this dress makes me cry every time I think about it and I wish, secretly that I there's something I've given her in the future that took that pain that I caused away. There's a part of me that would like that she never remember that dress, but I know people all too well, they feel, she feels a sense of being ignored by me, by others around her for her love of this dress. I denied her something....I was only 9 and I girl in love with the dress that her cousin sent her. I didn't want to let go of both things. I wish I had been wiser and had not been so proud.
    You have a kind and sensitive soul. hug.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I want to come to your upper middle class bay and hang out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Um...I tried that and it didn't work.
    That's because you chose not to make it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    The point was very obvious. Si base is very comfortable with approaching things/tasks to their comfort while she noticed that I react quickly to things that come up. It was a good point.
    Doesn't matter, you could have found another perfectly good example using someone who you don't have a history of bullying. So there's another poor choice you consciously made to keep a ridiculous antagonism alive. Straight up: if you're going to wage war on people then wage war, but just remember that by being an aggressor as you've been you forfeit your right to play the victim when the consequences of your actions aren't to your liking.

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    A chronic desire for emotional expression denotes a failure to attempt to understand your wants and desires and express them productively; instead calling back to the age of childhood where reassurance and mothering was the expected constant. It's no fit state for an adult to be in nor a suitable behaviour for an adult should indulge in.

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    @Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Is it easy for you to express your internal emotions? Do you mind at all or does it kind of seem like you are suppressing/undermining them?
    I am no and yes.

    I'll provide my own example, too, I guess, for variety. I prefer music.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Here are some examples of Fi, through my life and experiences.

    1. My father, being SLI type and rather emotionally reserved, is a dutiful man. His primary concern or focus was to take care of us financially and physically. He's a man of very few expressions and so verbal expression of feelings were something we missed out on. At one point in my childhood development, I made a value, a rule so to say that parents who loved their kids, and truly loved them would/should on occasion express these sentiments of love rather than just showing them through duty or providing for them. In my emotionally expressive way, I went up to my dad and crying (literally in pouring tears) told him, or asked and I can't tell which it was "dad, you're supposed to say 'I love you' to us sometimes'." I think my parents both got the point of how sensitive I was to expressions of love.

    2. When I was in Junior High a friend, a neighbor, took the Bible my mother had given us to read to keep ourselves occupied and decided she was upset and moved enough to destroy it. She began to shred the pages of the tiny Bible and throw them in the trash. I had formed certain values, again, at that point that certain books or maybe it was all books/bounded materials had something important to say hence one SHOULD not destroy them. I proceeded to "instruct" her in my mild manner, trying to explain to her that books had something of value we could all share in and that I thought it was inappropriate of her to be so violent with the book. She just threw it at me and walked away; I was not expecting this action and was rather bewildered at her protest. I did not like it, casting judgment on her ACTION. It was not the right thing to do. Because of her temperament and her extremes in mood, I thought this was an individual who I could not be around regularly because I didn't have enough energy or will to want to constantly instruct her, seeing as though her logic would not overcome her emotion. I could see this about her in my way. The first thought came to my mind about her was "you're not going to change."

    3. I would think that I've always felt a certain weakness for all things around me. A certain sensitivity to purposeful harm of creatures. Yes, I know I kill countless bacteria and microorganisms but there's something morbid and cruel about killing that which you can see, and especially see suffer before you. I've always taken spiders out and whenever possible, tried to recycle natural food/plants. I feel the connectedness of nature and the artificiality of our constructs. Each things, a spider, I've made personification in my own mind. It has feelings just as I would, it will hurt if I touch it a certain way, hence I must be gentle with it. There's an overwhelming need to take care of things because of this feeling resonance of these creatures within me. Or at least, to try not to harm.

    4. I can hear my mother's Fi activation in the sound of my voice as I rant about how wrong it is that such and such a person is not supporting someone because they think they are high and mighty and because they think they are the only people deserving or entitled to certain human rights, completely disregarding humanity but rather being choosy based on what clan they want to support. I'm talking here about someone who would rather side with one's ethnic culture and place everyone else down, even if those people are close relatives. It's wrong. And, I often have no trouble expressing why they are wrong and how people should really see things, and when I do, I have no trouble being very bright, expressive and blunt about them. When I do, my mom usually follows with gestures of approval, paralleling my sentiments. These may be, “yes, they think they have it all together, maybe they should look at their own kids and judge them and their families before they do to others.”

    5. I have been the type of person who doesn't hold grudges. I don't know why. I'll get upset and hold my high moral ground but soon, the identification with individual circumstances or the understanding of life's challenges and difficulties, as well as a broad understanding of human psychological tendencies, allows this otherwise unforgivable affair to be empathized with. I can't remember the last time anyone did anything specifically malicious towards me, I hope they're not doing it now

    I want to find a good example of this, this is one way in which my feelings, creative thinking, takes place and one way in which I come to use what I am.

    6. I'm highly prone to feelings of trapped guilt even though some things are just part of human nature, it imprints in my memory and I carry them with me, in agony. I can't let some feeling go easily. When i was 9, my dual cousin sent me a lovely blue dress to wear on my way to see her thousands of miles away. I was in love with that dress and not so much because it was glorious looking, but because someone thought of me when sending it, it made me feel so loved and special. It was also one of the very few things I didn't want to give away. My cousin fell in love with the dress too, but I was insistent upon keeping it. She cried over it, but so did I. My mom decided since it was sent to me that I should keep it but I tried to have her send it to my cousin as soon as my dual cousin saw that I was wearing it. I wore it very proudly. I also feel so guilty and sad that I couldn't give the dress up to that little cousin of mine who didn't have a dress like it. I felt bad that I, who didn't mind much about material things, could feel so attached to this dress and why I didn't let go of it then is a mystery, what over came me? But her, her tears, her fragile tears out of longing for this dress makes me cry every time I think about it and I wish, secretly that I there's something I've given her in the future that took that pain that I caused away. There's a part of me that would like that she never remember that dress, but I know people all too well, they feel, she feels a sense of being ignored by me, by others around her for her love of this dress. I denied her something....I was only 9 and I girl in love with the dress that her cousin sent her. I didn't want to let go of both things. I wish I had been wiser and had not been so proud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    @Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Is it easy for you to express your internal emotions? Do you mind at all or does it kind of seem like you are suppressing/undermining them?
    I am no and yes.

    I'll provide my own example, too, I guess, for variety. I prefer music.
    I don't relate to your example, but expressing emotions? No. It's hard for me to talk about those things that cause certain emotions.

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    In analyzing the levels of attraction and repulsion between people I observe, for instance, how an SEE would be attracted to ILI, as I mentioned to Nanashi in the Mating Calls thread; similarly, I observe how or what one said may create attraction and repulsion. I can confidently say to someone, "what you said doesn't matter, and hasn't changed the other person's attitude, desire, liking of you." I find this a very interesting inherent trait about me. Where some people worry what they have said and done deters people because they can't read or do Fi, I can say, from observation of the sequence of feelings (underlying feeling interactions that are aside from words exchanges), that that attitude has not changed in the other person.

    With this knowledge of underlying feelings produced by what will happen if I say X, I can very well say the right or the wrong thing in a manner of speaking which will effectively draw apart a relation I don't want. Take it for instance a certain relentless SLI who's been attracted to me. I simply told him that I was going to move. He didn't like this very much and is now staying very far away from me. LOL. I just don't want him to be interested in me romantically. But, I can't get him to be considerate of my space and desires. Yeah, HE'S NOT AT ALL IMPORTANT TO ME...BUT I LIKE HIM AS A HUMAN BEING.

    So, I can't help but to use this tactful approach to cause something within him to put a distance between us.

    I think that because of how I see things, I don't freeze and get down about the things I say and the way in which I choose to say them, like most people. I hardly get embarrassed by certain actions of mine (given that most aren't too extreme to begin with) where others would feel that other people's actions are embarrassing because they disrupt some expected social order/ritual zones.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-24-2012 at 07:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    That's because you chose not to make it work.



    Doesn't matter, you could have found another perfectly good example using someone who you don't have a history of bullying. So there's another poor choice you consciously made to keep a ridiculous antagonism alive. Straight up: if you're going to wage war on people then wage war, but just remember that by being an aggressor as you've been you forfeit your right to play the victim when the consequences of your actions aren't to your liking.
    No. Because you guys continue to create a false image of EII using her as a basis for that comparison, when it's completely inaccurate; take for instance how often Minde has used an Fe to gauge who she can trust or not based on their behavior towards her. Even towards me, she tells me and others "I don't trust you .....(yatty, yatty, yatta)." You people need to learn that what she's doing is Fe:



    Fe observes the display of feeling or disposition and analyzes motive, the catalyst of the feeling or disposition. Fe analyzes based on a particular disposition or emotional cues. Finely tuned Fe can be "people-smart" and pay attention to determining who is trustworthy and what to expect from their behavior based on hints of emotional and behavioral expressions.

    I've asked Minde to NOT READ MY POSTS several times and she continues to do so. Why? Because she's insecure about herself, insecure that she's coming off as she and others expect a perfectly expected EII to be. She's constantly looking at this social expectation and that is wrong. Instead of being herself because you people create some idealized images you can't shake off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post

    @ sneg -
    You're very right about something, though - I tend to focus on your (and others') motivations and dispositions. Now, I suppose, the question is - why is that focus? What function or type does it indicate? Fe, as you seem to think? Or something else?
    Yes, Minde, it is Fe. I hope you can learn to see it.
    Through motives and dispositions, one can accurately gauge who is trustworthy or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    About motivation - Perhaps I should clarify a bit. Yes, I like knowing people's motivations. But my goal in life is not to motivate people. Do you see the difference? I like knowing people's motivations because it helps me know how to react. I don't make a habit of using that knowledge to get people to go places and do things, especially on a grand scale (like I see ENFjs doing). Unless it's some emergency or something I really, really want. I guess you could say I use that knowledge of someone's motivations to help maintain the status quo, not change or advance it.

    Hope that helps a little.
    My GOAL in life is to motivate people. That's a big part of Ne ego.

    Motivations Noun:
    The reason or reasons one has for acting or behaving in a particular way.

    Why is this important? because the only way to establish and know what is important to a majority and how important a person or a thing is is to know what motives or motivations there are.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-24-2012 at 07:56 PM.

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    SEI wiki:

    Their dialogue provides the impression of a quiet, soft person. They love rest and comfort, and they are practical and attempt to portray refined taste. They are often engaged in fine art as a hobby. They are benevolent and tactful, their presence pacifies others.

    Pacifier anyone?

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    Ok, back to Fi.


    While I have some ability in being tactful and diplomatic, I would say that LSE is far more so than I am, this is because of Fe Role; they are more objective about people's feelings hence they are certainly less likely to carry their idealistic expectations to the pillar like I am, not ignoring external individual sentimentality like I do, etc. I should correct that in wiki

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    I'm so diplomatic, I fart and vomit diplomacy, Maritsa. Oh, and write in socionicswiki "Andwer the question, Jadae."
    Last edited by Absurd; 10-24-2012 at 10:59 PM.

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    What's interesting to me is the difference between idealistic individuals like myself and realists. Where in a given situation I will make a gross generalization, which is usually an ideal within myself that I strive for, for example I will say something along the lines of "I never break the law" a realist will always look at the situation in a realistic terms, "I won't break the law in these circumstances or in these situations."

    ^observing the relationship between things, especially myself as a constant is very common for me.

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    I will be the first to state that I have had to learn to temper my criticism of idealists globalised Fi; I find them making inappropriate emotional statements on occassion because I can see it is defined in a way that I think doesn't match with reality or how I might feel, which is based on what I can feel is right.

    For example:

    I recently allowed myself to breakup with my ex girlfriend because I felt something wasnt quite right for me this was coached by the situational difficulties our relationship was having. For context on this I had no control over creating a stable relationship environment because she has commitments which are, for good reason, more important than our relationship was, e.g. Children.

    Although I was able to make myself available on nearly every weekend whenever she was available eventually we hit a point where she was not available due to circumstances outwith her control. I was willing to accept this in the medium term as it is something you can work through or cant.

    What does this have to do with Fi? Now that the context is set:

    Very early into the relationship I was told directly about her love for me. I was honest at the time in saying that Im not emotionally expressive like that. But more of concern to me was that this rang alarm bells in my head vs previous relationships in terms of behaviou, this was also something I hinted to but didn't lay out on the table because it is likely to squish those 'globalised Fi' feelings and put me into the 'bad person' category. Even these hints regarding my concerns were later used as 'ammunition' which is fine thats just the way the Fi-Ne people do things by trying to create excuses to allow their globalised Fi to perpetuate.

    We continued for about 7 months and things were generally fine until this hiccup occured. Why? Because in person I am generally sufficienctly emotive, reassuring, easy going and get my honest feelings on matters across in terms of how I act and say things. These are things that people can relate to. But it isnt my strength to display emotions without action in a written way or remotely; I come across as an unusual blend of erratic and concise unless I am given a great deal of time to properly flesh out ideas and emotions; it's virtually impossible when I feel 'up against' other peoples emotional expectations. Removing the ability to act was bound to drive the ex to distraction if she was more in love with the idea and act of love than love for me as an individual. If she was in love with the individual she would have noted this and discussed it which never has happened.

    Naturally this occured, with what I can only describe as her reaching out for an emotional connection to feed her 'love for being in love' rather than one of respecting my individual way of showing love. It wasnt based on respect for the individual where one weighs up and accepts that people cannot do everything and without this anchor a long term relationship is improbable at best.

    I thought this interesting anecdote would help @Maritsa Darmandzhyan to better analyse Fi-Se in situ and how we can be more acutely aware of whats going on but especially with introverted types find a live mental block to expressing it. It is interesting to note that my exs type is most likely be IEE.
    Last edited by InvisibleJim; 10-25-2012 at 09:30 AM.

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    I tend to focus on the character of a person; are they good/bad not necessarily evil (I don't really know what that's supposed to refer to any way); my LSE cousin's daughter noticed that while I was giving her a suggestion to be tutored by my SEE friends, in describing the friend I said, "you'll love her, she's patient, very through, kind, she's very considerate of your learning style and takes a good amount of time to understand you and help you; she is not only very smart, but is generous with her time." My cousin's daughter stopped me to say, "I'm not asking about her character, I just want to know what methods she uses to teach me." LOL I'm pretty sure she's LSE, but can't tell yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I will be the first to state that I have had to learn to temper my criticism of idealists globalised Fi; I find them making inappropriate emotional statements on occassion because I can see it is defined in a way that I think doesn't match with reality or how I might feel, which is based on what I can feel is right.

    For example:

    I recently allowed myself to breakup with my ex girlfriend because I felt something wasnt quite right for me this was coached by the situational difficulties our relationship was having. For context on this I had no control over creating a stable relationship environment because she has commitments which are, for good reason, more important than our relationship was, e.g. Children.

    Although I was able to make myself available on nearly every weekend whenever she was available eventually we hit a point where she was not available due to circumstances outwith her control. I was willing to accept this in the medium term as it is something you can work through or cant.

    What does this have to do with Fi? Now that the context is set:

    Very early into the relationship I was told directly about her love for me. I was honest at the time in saying that Im not emotionally expressive like that. But more of concern to me was that this rang alarm bells in my head vs previous relationships in terms of behaviou, this was also something I hinted to but didn't lay out on the table because it is likely to squish those 'globalised Fi' feelings and put me into the 'bad person' category. Even these hints regarding my concerns were later used as 'ammunition' which is fine thats just the way the Fi-Ne people do things by trying to create excuses to allow their globalised Fi to perpetuate.

    We continued for about 7 months and things were generally fine until this hiccup occured. Why? Because in person I am generally sufficienctly emotive, reassuring, easy going and get my honest feelings on matters across in terms of how I act and say things. These are things that people can relate to. But it isnt my strength to display emotions without action in a written way or remotely; I come across as an unusual blend of erratic and concise unless I am given a great deal of time to properly flesh out ideas and emotions; it's virtually impossible when I feel 'up against' other peoples emotional expectations. Removing the ability to act was bound to drive the ex to distraction if she was more in love with the idea and act of love than love for me as an individual. If she was in love with the individual she would have noted this and discussed it which never has happened.

    Naturally this occured, with what I can only describe as her reaching out for an emotional connection to feed her 'love for being in love' rather than one of respecting my individual way of showing love. It wasnt based on respect for the individual where one weighs up and accepts that people cannot do everything and without this anchor a long term relationship is improbable at best.

    I thought this interesting anecdote would help @Maritsa Darmandzhyan to better analyse Fi-Se in situ and how we can be more acutely aware of whats going on but especially with introverted types find a live mental block to expressing it. It is interesting to note that my exs type is most likely be IEE.
    This focuses on her character and your character, that's part of Fi "hey, I did these things and she did these things" these are meant to describe your character. What you (as an ideal model of yourself) does. Furthermore, anyone can write about relationships or how they view people from any number of angles, be it analytical, emotional. But the values that one speaks of through these writings are a part of Fi, that sometimes subtle reference to what you think is right/wrong in one's actions, your actions, their way of being towards you and others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    What's interesting to me is the difference between idealistic individuals like myself and realists. Where in a given situation I will make a gross generalization, which is usually an ideal within myself that I strive for, for example I will say something along the lines of "I never break the law" a realist will always look at the situation in a realistic terms, "I won't break the law in these circumstances or in these situations."
    You're talking about specific circumstances just as much as the "realists" you're referring to if you say "I never break the law". The word "never" means "not ever"; "not under any circumstances". Which, in this case, is nothing but a fallacious "as a matter of fact"- style statement. If you wanted to sound less dumb you could say that you "aim not to break the law" or "usually follow the law" or something along those lines. Though I assume most people would find a person who wants to follow the law for the sake of following the law dumb anyways.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 10-25-2012 at 06:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Martisa I can't help but think you are in love with yourself

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