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Thread: ESTjs not having real friends outside of their family

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Default ESTjs not having real friends outside of their family

    I've got the impression that LSEs usually don't have friends as their universe limits to their families. They might know people outside their family but they are usually not friends; merely, acquantainces.

    I know Deltas in general are very individualistic, somewhat reclusive. But it seems like the rational Delta pair (LSE-EII) sees friends in a very different light from the irrational Delta pair (IEE-SLI).

    ¿What do you think?
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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    How many LSEs do you know?
    How many Deltas do you know?

    How many of them fall into the exact pattern you're describing? Can these people be some other type? Can their tendencies be explained by alternate factors independent of socionics?
    How much data have you collected to make these sweeping generalizations & how can you back up your claims?

    Prove you're not dumb.

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    I guess you're generally right. LSE don't have a lot of friendships or social kind of thing like maybe SEI would, but they aren't closed to it; they welcome people who want to be around them, they just don't share a lot of themselves with others.

    It is more of a balance, I believe. LSE and EII both like to entertain and participate in gatherings. LSE are far more active in periodically entertaining than I am, purely out of my lack of will/energy rather than me ignoring it, as SLI would. I have friends, from all quadras but as far as hanging out with them on a usual bases, it's harder for me to pull together my Delta friends to do so, or even ESE for that matter. My dual pair is characterized by isolation from society and focus on work, family life, etc, once duality takes place, but otherwise augmenting the relationship with other things like entertaining family is usually what LSE will do. You need external relationships for social purposes, so we certainly value it, but they aren't very important as is the immediate love/bond created by the dual pair, so at times, they become isolated from others. The immediate relationship becomes like a seal almost a whole network that is self emotionally self satisfying to the point where these augmented external friendship/relationships are almost not needed as much as I would think that other irrational pairs enjoy them. We value and love friendships and go out of our ways to maintain the relationships, offering our friends security and comfort when needed, but these relationships are far fewer and less active socially than other dual pairs, or even individuals such as SEI.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Regardless of what anyone believes I am, in either scenario, I am not hypersocial, and I have always tended towards strong relations over glossy relations. So in one scenario you'd have a beta rational that is similar to what you descibe, and in the other scenario, you'd have a delta rational as you descibe. In either case, it is not specifically about family, but about being within those relations that are crucial; everyone else is just filtered noise.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    It is a chicken

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    IME, at least 5-6 LSEs i know all have many friends and are very sociable (much more so than me), but as has been alluded to here in this thread, their life doesn't revolve around the friends. They are very driven people who work hard but make hard work seem easy.
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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    How many LSEs do you know?
    How many Deltas do you know?

    How many of them fall into the exact pattern you're describing? Can these people be some other type? Can their tendencies be explained by alternate factors independent of socionics?
    How much data have you collected to make these sweeping generalizations & how can you back up your claims?
    1) I know many many Deltas, easily 30 or more. Mostly the extroverted ones (IEEs, LSEs). I suppose the introverted ones are more difficult to know because they are not out there as much so it's difficult to get close in the first place.
    2) Pretty much every LSE I know is family oriented. I'm yet to know one that is single without kids and happy about it.
    3) LSEs tend to be, in my opinion, either attached to their birth family, or to their own family. But in any case, friends are not a big part of their lives, if at all.
    4) People tend to use the word "friend" lightly. LSEs are sociable and know lots of people. But that doesn't mean they have lots of friends. The difference could be described as relating out of neccessity, rather than merely pleasure. This is probably the central point about LSEs: they are not very concerned about their own emotional needs or the needs of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Prove you're not dumb.
    I don't need to prove you anything you piece of shit, this is not a trial.
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    1) I know many many Deltas, easily 30 or more. Mostly the extroverted ones (IEEs, LSEs). I suppose the introverted ones are more difficult to know because they are not out there as much so it's difficult to get close in the first place.
    2) Pretty much every LSE I know is family oriented. I'm yet to know one that is single without kids and happy about it.
    3) LSEs tend to be, in my opinion, either attached to their birth family, or to their own family. But in any case, friends are not a big part of their lives, if at all.
    4) People tend to use the word "friend" lightly. LSEs are sociable and know lots of people. But that doesn't mean they have lots of friends. The difference could be described as relating out of neccessity, rather than merely pleasure. This is probably the central point about LSEs: they are not very concerned about their own emotional needs or the needs of others.
    i dont disagree with this, esp your last statement. that's true for deltas in general, though, i think.
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    24601 ClownsandEntropy's Avatar
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    One of my best friends is single and without kids. We're also finishing high school at the end of the year, so maybe that's a reason. Strikes me as someone who would have really have only a few close friends. He's quite friendly with most people at school, though I think in a workplace kind of situation he would mainly make conversation with others about work-related affairs, rather than actually establishing close friendships.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kogoro Akechi View Post
    We plants are happy plants.
    Would you expand upon this please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Would you expand upon this please.
    Contemplative, but i don't think so. i will go out, first i must learn something useful. i will go out soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kogoro Akechi View Post
    Contemplative, but i don't think so. i will go out, first i must learn something useful. i will go out soon.
    I'm quite certain I don't understand you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    I've got the impression that LSEs usually don't have friends as their universe limits to their families. They might know people outside their family but they are usually not friends; merely, acquantainces.
    I categorize relations something like this:

    Immediate Family: parents, siblings, spouse, kids
    Extended Family: aunts, uncles, grandparents, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, first cousins
    Distant Family: anyone whose family tree can be traced to me by memory.

    Current Best Friend(s): These usually change once every year or two. In school, it was whatever good friend I had the most classes with.
    Good Friends: Anyone I get along well with, have known for a couple years or so, and have communicated with recently.
    Old Friends: Someone I consider a friend who I may not have communicated with in years (but if I see them I will behave as if we're exactly where we left off [even to the last conversation we had, if I remember it]).
    Good Acquaintances: Anyone I get along well with but don't know very well. (A lot of internet friends actually fit here.)
    Distant Acquaintances: People I know...sort of.
    Strangers: People I don't know...at all.
    Losers: Fools and idiots who aren't worth wasting my time.
    Creeps: Guys who need a punch in the snoot.

    ~LSE


    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    this is not a trial.
    And in America, he would be innocent until proven guilty. I don't know how it works in your country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Prove you're not dumb.
    Was this necessary? You could have asked the other questions in your post, and IME you would have come across more intelligent yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    ¿What do you think?
    I agree. I believe myself to be LSE, and I have a lot of acquaintances but few really close friends. I have over 1,000 friends on Facebook, got along with everyone in high school, college, developed some nice friendships. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be working or doing something productive, as opposed to just hanging with friends.

    Spending time with friends is necessary, but certainly not in large quantities, as that gets me nowhere to my goals. I'd rather maintain and develop a few close relationships in my life long-term for stability, rather than wasting time starting new friendships and maintaining an abundance of friendships that get you nowhere.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    ESE
    For the billionth time, no.

    *Edit* But I admire your persistence!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    For the billionth time, no.

    *Edit* But I admire your persistence!
    Claw back on the Fe, platitudinous back-slapper. It's pretty funny how the entirety of your self-awareness is directed to mimicking whichever cardboard stereotype you think represents your type du jour. Don't think it went unnoticed that you flew your LSE flag again immediately after white-knighting your duplicitous Armenian dingbat friend, ensuring her support of your present error, or that you continue shifting your persona to meet imagined public expectations despite your promises to stop being so fake. I challenge you to find one person who is sane, intelligent, and honest to back up your claim to LSE. Not sane, intelligent, or honest. All three.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Claw back on the Fe, platitudinous back-slapper. It's pretty funny how the entirety of your self-awareness is directed to mimicking whichever cardboard stereotype you think represents your type du jour. Don't think it went unnoticed that you flew your LSE flag again immediately after white-knighting your duplicitous Armenian dingbat friend, ensuring her support of your present error, or that you continue shifting your persona to meet imagined public expectations despite your promises to stop being so fake. I challenge you to find one person who is sane, intelligent, and honest to back up your claim to LSE. Not sane, intelligent, or honest. All three.
    Hmm I think you analyze me more than I think about this stuff myself. I've thought I was ESE/LSE since March, for 8 months now, so I'm not sure what subtle connection you're getting at. I defended Maritsa, who is not a dingbat btw, and whom I'm not necessarily convinced is EII, but that's another story, from another Delta NF, so showing no type bias in the defense. And your challenge is amusing, since there are many sane, intelligent, and honest people who think I'm LSE, some of whom I mentioned in my posts above, if you scroll up. I don't feel like repeating myself.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    ESE
    No.

  21. #21
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    some of whom I mentioned in my posts above, if you scroll up. I don't feel like repeating myself.
    @k0rpsy My mistake, I mentioned this on a different thread. Either way, I don't see the point of mentioning people, since you'll just say they're not sane, intelligent, and honest, furthering your own agenda in a silly game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    @k0rpsy My mistake, I mentioned this on a different thread. Either way, I don't see the point of mentioning people, since you'll just say they're not sane, intelligent, and honest, furthering your own agenda in a silly game.
    Try me. If you've got a whole slew to throw at me that's fine. I just want one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Try me. If you've got a whole slew to throw at me that's fine. I just want one.
    Would you like me to do another type-thread, just for you? I don't want to derail this one. My opinion on LSEs and their friends of course is on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

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    I type him delta ST. Likely LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    For the billionth time, no.

    *Edit* But I admire your persistence!
    The ?only? virtue of k0rpsy?

    At least you can live content in the knowledge that he is neither sane, nor intelligent, nor honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    I type him delta ST. Likely LSE.
    No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    No.
    You're not LSE.

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Was this necessary? You could have asked the other questions in your post, and IME you would have come across more intelligent yourself.
    you could've not quoted me and still have had come across as smug, arrogant and delusional but i guess you now have something to prove by waving your moralizing (allegedly Fi-vulnerable flag) high.

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Maybe we are all delusional and need some straight talking.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    I don't have to mention you typed him SEI, Ryan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    Maybe we are all delusional and need some straight talking.
    We are all posting on this forum. Forum of Delusionals, CONFIRMED.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The ?only? virtue of k0rpsy?

    At least you can live content in the knowledge that he is neither sane, nor intelligent, nor honest.
    Hah thanks for sticking up for me, but I believe k0rpsy has many virtues. Not just persistence, but he's insightful, having noted potential other motivations for typing LSE, which he mentioned above. He also shows confidence in his opinions, and is willing to go against the grain. Even though I disagree with him in this particular instance, in general I've learned to appreciate his input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I don't have to mention you typed him SEI, Ryan.
    Good catch, Absurd again with the excellent memory. Of course @Ryan can answer this himself, but if I'm not mistaken, I believe he typed me this as a way of 'testing' me and my reaction. It was very short-lived, roughly 2 weeks or 1 month? Either way, sometimes I do this for a short period to test other people as well, throw out a different type for someone, to gauge their reactions.

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    Yes, yes, of course. He also typed you EIE. Oh well, looks like you and Ryan have a lot in common, although there is a difference, you still have your clothes on, Snaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Yes, yes, of course. He also typed you EIE.
    Did he? I'll let him answer, I don't recall this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Oh well, looks like you and Ryan have a lot in common, although there is a difference, you still have your clothes on, Snaps.
    And I don't play guitar! Or snark.

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    I'm not sarcastic, that's impossible, so I think there needs to be some kind of re-evaluation, you're the sarcastic one now for you see Ryan, allegedly, plays guitar and you snap fingers to music in your vids. That's already a band. What I wanted to say is, you both go together like petrol and oil. I even have a name for your band, it's called two-stroke-oil.
    Last edited by Absurd; 11-22-2012 at 07:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Good catch, Absurd again with the excellent memory. Of course @Ryan can answer this himself, but if I'm not mistaken, I believe he typed me this as a way of 'testing' me and my reaction. It was very short-lived, roughly 2 weeks or 1 month? Either way, sometimes I do this for a short period to test other people as well, throw out a different type for someone, to gauge their reactions.
    I wasn't testing you. I knew a guy like you that got ISFP in MBTI, hence the SEI typing. It was indeed short lived. He is way younger than you so that could have made him type as such (I still think he is some logical type), but you two aren't very much alike like I expected.

    I always keep my options open, if there are any, just because I mentioned one or two typings at some point doesn't mean they are the only one I considered, even at that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    You're not LSE.
    Now I suspect you of being Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Now I suspect you of being Maritsa.
    There's quite a few of them on here.

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