Head in the Clouds

[oyburger]

I was wondering if it's common for NT types to be labeled as having their head in the clouds.
I heard last night for the umpteenth billion time "Wake up! Pay attention!"

I don't think that it's just an N problem. My mother is INFj and my sister is INFp and both have had their fair share of trying to keep me grounded.

So, do other NT types have this problem too, or is this an isolated case?




In advance: Please excuse my ignorance if this is common knowledge.

[consentingadult]

Perhaps more an introverted feature??

[oyburger]

So more of an INTx thing or an IN thing?

[aestrivex]

INXx types probably have this characteristic.

[oyburger]

INXx types probably have this characteristic.

Both my mother and sister are INXx and neither of them have an issue with this.

[Catholic Schoolboy]

Always seemed like an INXp thing to me.

[Olga]

I wonder who from introverts wakes up first and if their state of (mind in clouds) is different in quality.

[oyburger]

I wonder who from introverts wakes up first and if their state of (mind in clouds) is different in quality.

Do you mean wake up from that other realm I seem to go to?
Apparently someone has to do it for me
Sometimes I acknowledge that my mind is a million miles away after I've been driving and I realize I missed my exit 10 minutes ago. Or when I realize that I've been staring into space for a while.
But most of the time someone has to do it for me. I can usually only see the things that they are pointing out to me (things right in front of me) once they've said something.

I've observed some children who do this (and this has been a problem for me since childhood) and the response upon waking seems to be the same.

[Olga]

I think it is to do with rational introversion. I described it once in the artcle about Irrationality. If we shall take all introverts and put them in line we shall see that some of them are too irrational (INFP) and the others too rational (INTJ). Extremes of irrationality and rationality give certain qualities. I don't remember now what I was saying about INFP but INTJ are workaholics or can be. This means they will produce very irrational behaviour to compensate for their rationality.

I suggested taht INFP are more irrational due to and - which I consider on the whole more irrational compare to logics either structural/abstract or systemic/concrete . Plus no sign of power .

INTJ - no sign of power plus logic. This is only hypothesis. The other introverts have at least mixture of power/sensorics and logic.

On the whole it seems to me taht mind in clouds could relate to and more than to and .

Ther should be the difference between Superego types and Superid types. Old adult rationality versus infantile irrationality. I did not think that far yet.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Ive always been like this but Im not a ditz. I remember when I was 5 my father took me fishing and he yelled at me because I was daydreaming and not fishing.

[Dioklecian]

My mother mother scared me from dreaming nice things: she said that if I dream of sweets that means that someone I love will die, so I never dreamed of eating sweets. Also she forced me to daydream instead of do things, like would not let me do anything but read books, andthen she would bugg me for reading inside so I would go out to read under the wind and rain and sometimes I would catch a cold. The only thing I could do was read, I couldn't out to play, I couldn't compete in athletics (to compete is bad), I couldn't be happy for things that I won, I couldn't think for myself, I couldn't feel for myself, she would tell me what to feel and what to think andwhat to do, and where to stand and how to stand, and what to say and to whom and how and for what reason, I couldn't like anyone or anything that she didn't want me to like, often because she liked something I had to not like it, also I had to hate the people I liked so that the only person that I liked was she, I had to not like to shower so that she could get joy by making me shower, I had to get sick so that she could feel needed by looking after me, I couldn't want anything because she said that to want anything is bad. I had to donate my life to her.

[oyburger]

@ Dio
Are you serious?

[Dioklecian]

You don't make up stuff like that for fun.

[oyburger]

Why was she like that? Did she have a mental disorder?
The controlling part sounds similar to my husbands ENTj mother and she has severe bipolar.

[Kristiina]

People used to tell me pretty often that I have pay more attention to my surroundings. I think this is more likely just limited to some types:

Maybe all NT types and INFp.

ENTx types can be "wide awake" at parties or when doing something (when ENTj Te kicks in), but other than that, I'm rather deeply in my own thoughts.

[Dioklecian]

I don't htink she was physically disabled, by she was emotionally bruised by her ESFJ mother who told her all her life that it was her fault that her father died before she was born. She generally took out her frustrations on my mother, and I presume that is abuse. So my mother was very emotionally controlling, she pretty much avoided all possible influences besides her own and the ones that supported her point of view. If a girl liked me, she would do everything to come between us, ever since I was 8. If some accomplishment or skill appeared in me, she worked hard to destroy it. I won some math competitions when I was young but then she made me hate math so much, that in university I didn't want to take any classes. She would make procrastinate with studying, then increase my anxiety the night before, make me stay up until late, then wake me up with panic early in the morning and make me cram for my exam until I felt sick of the subject I was studying and had no joy in it. The same with girls, friends, relatives and even towns or objects. When I left home she made me take the worst types of clothing that were obviously out of style so that I would be unable to fit in, etc etc.

[Dioklecian]

Not me, but probably the Columbine kids thought just like that.

Welcome Home (Sanitarium)


Welcome to where time stands still
no one leaves and no one will
Moon is full, never seems to change
just labeled mentally deranged
Dream the same thing every night
I see our freedom in my sight
No locked doors, No windows barred
No things to make my brain seem scarred


Sleep my friend and you will see
that dream is my reality
They keep me locked up in this cage
can't they see it's why my brain says Rage


Sanitarium, leave me be
Sanitarium, just leave me alone


Build my fear of what's out there
and cannot breathe the open air
Whisper things into my brain
assuring me that I'm insane
They think our heads are in their hands
but violent use brings violent plans
Keep him tied, it makes him well
he's getting better, can't you tell?


No more can they keep us in
Listen, damn it, we will win
They see it right, they see it well
but they think this saves us from our hell


Sanitarium, leave me be
Sanitarium, just leave me alone
Sanitarium, just leave me alone


Fear of living on
natives getting restless now
Mutiny in the air
got some death to do
Mirror stares back hard
Kill, it's such a friendly word
seems the only way
for reaching out again.

[oyburger]

I'm really sorry to hear that Dio
My husband went through similar things with his mother, like her throwing away a toy if he showed some interest in it.
She abused him, but it was from a mental problem, they run in his family.

[Dioklecian]

I'm really sorry to hear that Dio
My husband went through similar things with his mother, like her throwing away a toy if he showed some interest in it.
She abused him, but it was from a mental problem, they run in his family.

The crazy thing, is that throughtout my upbringing I wasn't actually aware that these things were happening, I really thought that at every moment she had my best interest in mind.

[Gilly]

It's weak Se.

[Dioklecian]

It's weak Se.

What is?

[Gilly]

It's weak Se.

What is?

Being a space cadet.

[oyburger]

The crazy thing, is that throughtout my upbringing I wasn't actually aware that these things were happening, I really thought that at every moment she had my best interest in mind.

In a twisted kind of way, I can see that. It seems rather that she was selfish and didn't have your best interests at heart.

It's weak Se.

Yeah, I can see that.

[Dioklecian]

The crazy thing, is that throughtout my upbringing I wasn't actually aware that these things were happening, I really thought that at every moment she had my best interest in mind.

In a twisted kind of way, I can see that. It seems rather that she was selfish and didn't have your best interests at heart.

It's weak Se.

Yeah, I can see that.

Yeah me too.

She is not a bad person, just too excessive, I don't think that she even knows what HER own best interest is either.

[oyburger]

@ Dio
What's your type? Do you think it was something else and manifested to whatever it is now because of the abuse?
I'm really sorry if my questions are too personal, you can tell me to shut up at any time.

[oyburger]

Also, for anyone who is a space cadet, as giligan so elequently put, when you go off to daydream world, does the surrounding area in your line of vision seem to melt?

[Dioklecian]

Also, for anyone who is a space cadet, as giligan so elequently put, when you go off to daydream world, does the surrounding area in your line of vision seem to melt?

Yes, I almost feel like I can change it at will.

[Olga]

God, how many children suffer in this way. But you have been protected by being a child - not feeling the drama to full extent. But I guess it hurts for yoursefl and your mother.

As you can see this experience was not able to change you to the worse but to the better. You know what's it like and will protect others from abuse. You may have lots of Love to give - that may well be your mission.

-------

I do not think straight today for sure. Superego is mature adult not odl adult. Old adult is back in Superid.

I also daydream or ...may be not dream as much as N types but I definetly not hear and do not see what is going on around me. I re;ax and escape from extraverted world in my Fi - Ti world.

Socially I am a bit disabled in a social group: I do not pick up quickly what are people talking about. I am rarely interested in topics people discuss unless it something of my interest. And nearly constantly think something whenever I have time and space. I am definetly in my own world. My husband INTJ too. Sometimes I see that we drift away and that funny expression as if we wake up suddenly and say hello to each other. We catch each other on drifting away. Do not believe that two introverts can not be happy together: we are very happy.

By the way, that song Dio put is very Superid, or I woud say about the tention between Ego and Superid but more about Superid. And my songs most of the time all about Fi-Ti, sort of guidance to romantics.

[FDG]

For me, it heavily depends on what my attention is directed to. No, I am not generally "head in clouds"; when I am, it means that the person I'm with is:

1)A slow walker
2)A slow talker
3)Boring
4)Uninteresting

so on.

[Olga]

Now tell me how me ISFJ could be happy with ENTJ who perceived me exactly liky you said. My hubby ENTJ did not like the way I talk, the topics of my talking (psychology) and plus wished me to be more cheerful.

Not every ISFJ will fit ENTJ. Interrelationships are relative to other many personality factors.

[FDG]

Now tell me how me ISFJ could be happy with ENTJ who perceived me exactly liky you said. My hubby ENTJ did not like the way I talk, the topics of my talking (psychology) and plus wished me to be more cheerful.

Depends. I like psychology, for example. The way you talked? Well, sometimes it's hard to understand you, true, but I'm sure that by voice it's different. It's strange that an ENTJ doesn't like it. I can see how the lack of cheerfulness can be a problem, it has been for me with some ISFjs. Perhaps he was more of the "perceiving" kind of ENTj, whereas the more "serious" kind might appreciate less open showing of feelings.

Not every ISFJ will fit ENTJ

Undoubtfully, and the opposite is true as well, and has been true to me.

Interrelationships are relative to other many personality factors.

Yes, I very much agree.

As for my complaint about ISFjs, the main problem is that many times they do not understand the zaniest part of my humor.

[Olga]

What do you mean by zaniest?
I would find it diffficult to differentiate between different kinds of humour.
When I lived in Russia, I heard about English humour and later when I came to England I saw how simple things like throwing a cake into the face or showing bum make people laugh: very childish sense of humour.
People don't do it in Russia.

[cracka]

I actually don't remember the last time i ever daydreamed about anything, or for that matter if I ever have.

[oyburger]

I actually don't remember the last time i ever daydreamed about anything, or for that matter if I ever have.

Poor, poor cracka

[Olga]

My mum is ESTj and not a healthy one. She is running around whole day doing things in the house, always finds things to do, does not know how to enjoy life except of being actively working. She does like sunbathing though and can read when in hospital, watces films in foreign language and does not bother if she does not understand what they talking about.

[detail]

Interrelationships are relative to other many personality factors.

You can see relationships as if people were poles and factors were cogs of different sizes, at differents heights. When the poles come closer, each one's cogs fit with the other's at different levels. Many parameters can be defined with this analogy, but it only serve entertainment purposes (Even though the analogy can help those who have trouble understanding socionics is not everything to understand how (Theoretically, obviously) they are wrong. I guess it's not fallacious as long as one doesn't pretend it's a proof.).

[Olga]

I am not sure if I understood your point. Do you mean that socionics helps to understand the relationships? I think so. But...despite everything I do here - I believe in a Higher Will or God and rely more on His Will than on anything else. Things happen the way they were planned to happen and with all our attempt to undestand people and soul we are coming closer to understand God and His plan.

I guess it sounds as a bit too much but that the way it is.... at least for me.

[oyburger]

i do it all the time, and yes it has been a problem for me. sometimes i pretend that i am a ditz, but really i am not.

I'm always afriad people are going to think this about me. I sometimes feel like screaming " I'm really not a ditz, you just caught me at a momoent when my brain was elsewhere! It never helped much, that I'm blonde too

i just have a whole lot of complex things/ideas playing out in my mind to care very much about Se stuff that just seems so blatantly easy that i don't do it! but then i realize later that when u don't pay attention to your physical, concrete surroundings it can be a real handicap... i do work on this more now and i can see its benefits and importance!

Yes, I know what you mean about it being a handicap. Its quite a struggle for me sometimes to focus on th Se in my life. Most of the time though I just don't want to.