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Thread: Ti, Te in MBTI, Socionics Set #1 of 4

  1. #1
    Creepy-pokeball

    Cool Ti, Te in MBTI, Socionics. Set #1 of 4

    Let's start simple with this contrast of known-materials of these 2 systems born from the same base of theory and knowledge.

    Points to conisder:

    1. What are the differences within a person that these contrast provide?
    2. How is each system similar, and how is each system different?
    3. What is each function in each system referencing or framing within the self?
    4. How is the implied function content different within each system?
    5. What role does each system play?
    6. How do the function placements of the first two functions of each system relate to one another?
    7 If one could visualize a concept of Te, Ti, secondary Te, and secondary Ti, how would they appear in relation to one another?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Extraversion in MBTI:

    Extraverts are action oriented.
    Extraverts seek breadth of knowledge and influence.
    Extraverts often prefer more frequent interaction.
    Extraverts recharge and get their energy from spending time with people.

    Extraversion in Socionics:

    Extroverted information is information about things as they are, independent of relations to other things.
    Things as independent of other things.

    Note: Very little in Socionics actually defines extraversion on its own.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Introversion in MBTI:

    Introverts are thought oriented.
    Introverts seek depth of knowledge and influence.
    Introverts prefer more substantial interaction.
    Introverts recharge and get their energy from spending time alone.

    Introversion in Socionics:

    Introverted information is information about how things relate to one another, independent of their innate properties.
    Relationships between things.

    Note: Very little in Socionics actually defines introversion on its own.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Logic in MBTI:

    Those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent, and matching a given set of rules.

    Thinkers usually have trouble interacting with people who are inconsistent or illogical, and tend to give very direct feedback to others.

    They are concerned with the truth and view it as more important than being tactful.

    Logic in Socionics:

    Interpretation of information based on whether it is correct or incorrect.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Introverted Logic in MBTI:

    Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency. ISTPs live in a world of logic, on which they base their decisions. They process information from their auxiliary function to create strategies for action at a moment's notice. They love to examine complicated systems.

    Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency. Ti is calm, articulate, and aware of the forces that bind reality together. As introverted thinkers, INTPs spend the majority of their time and energy ordering the interior, logical world of principles and generalizations in an effort to understand.

    Introverted Logic in Socionics:

    Ti is responsible for understanding logic and structure, categorizations, ordering and priorities, logical analysis and distinctions, logical explanations. Ti interprets information according to how it fits into a validating system. Ti is particularly aware of logical consistency and how concepts relate to each other in meaning and structure, independently of particular purposes.

    Introverted Thinking as the rational base function leads the inspector to make sense of reality through sensible logic.

    Introverted Thinking as the rational base function leads the analyst to relate whatever he is doing to some larger principles that he may have identified.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    *Definitions of the Dominant Function and the Non-Dominant, Primary Function:

    MBTI:

    (Dominant) function is generally used in a more conscious and confident way.

    The secondary Auxiliary function serves to support and expand on the Dominant function.

    Socionics:

    Leading, program, primary, base, or dominant function. This is the strongest conscious function, and the most utilized function of the psyche. A person's outlook and role in life is largely determined by the nature of this function. One is generally very confident in the use of this function, and may defend it when challenged.

    Creative or secondary function, is second in influence only to the dominant function. It assists the dominant function in achieving its essence. One is generally less confident with the use of this function than with his dominant function. As a result, the creative function is sometimes less instrumental when a person is challenged or threatened, or when dealing with new and complex tasks and data. According to Bukalov, this function is ... ... time invariant, because it produces something new which may never exist before.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Auxillary Introverted Logic in MBTI:

    Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.

    Creative Introverted Logic in Socionics:

    Introverted Thinking is the rational creative function that produces results of the Ne function by making sense of the unknown using internal structural logic.

    Introverted Thinking is the rational creative function that produces results of the Se function by analysing the obvious and building a surface understanding of reality.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Extraverted Logic in MBTI:

    Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence.

    Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. The dominant Te means ESTJs use logical fact-based judgments in the outer world of people and actions. This again explains their behavior and leadership qualities

    Te is the most developed function for ENTJs. Te involves ordering, structuring, specifying, and applying logic to situations. ENTJs tend to be endowed with strong organizational and coordination skills. Te is also focused on performing a task in the most efficient and productive manner, which generally gives ENTJs the ability to direct and marshal their environment according to work-specific needs. Further, Te contributes to the ENTJs' ability to accumulate relevant data while analyzing that data for factual accuracies and impersonal applications.

    Extraverted Logic in Socionics:

    Te is efficiency of an action, technical processes, the accomplishment of work, the efficient and prudent use of resources, factual accuracy, and the acquisition of relevant and useful information. Te understands the difference between effective and ineffective behavior when performing a procedure or accomplishing a task, and aspires to increase the frequency of productive outcomes within a system.

    Extroverted Thinking is the rational base function that leads the pioneer to pursue and collect reliable ways of making decisions that get predictable results.

    Extroverted Thinking is the rational base function that leads the director topursue and collect reliable ways of making decisions that get predictable results as comparative to the pioneer.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Auxillary Extraverted Logic in MBTI:

    Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence

    Creative Extraverted Logic in Socionics:

    Extroverted Thinking is the rational creative function that produces results ofthe Ni function by giving the critic the ability to create order from the chaos of ideas, perceptions and hunches.

    Extroverted Thinking is the rational creative function that produces results of the Si function by giving the craftsman the attitude to make something out of the disharmony of an inherently irrationally viewed world.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
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    A lot of replies.

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    I do not like your version of Socionics Te. It does not mention algorithmic reasoning. That is a big deal.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    The above, also these descriptions are wooly, this is a function of them being onerous. Try making them much more concise to ensure they are internally consistent between the MBTI and Socionics pairings. At the moment despite reading I have no idea if they are.

  5. #5
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The above, also these descriptions are wooly, this is a function of them being onerous. Try making them much more concise to ensure they are internally consistent between the MBTI and Socionics pairings. At the moment despite reading I have no idea if they are.
    They are not consistant. This entire work will be a work to show how Socionics and MBTI are systems that diverge from their origin, which is not a system in and of itself.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I do not like your version of Socionics Te. It does not mention algorithmic reasoning. That is a big deal.
    To go into those fine points would be too lengthly, and it would entirely miss the point of this compare and contrast. That is not my definition. Why would I mention algorithmic reasoning without mentioning dynamics, or even a vortical contrast, in this work? It is a definition or summary of Socionics Te, that is both the least lengthy and most concise for this exercise in compare and contrast. Look at the context, of the word comparisons closer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I do not like your version of Socionics Te. It does not mention algorithmic reasoning. That is a big deal.
    It's a given, Te does try to figure out the chain of things that may happen. Te in essence can figure out a certain sequential thought from given factors, provided the have full information to chain the reaction otherwise they can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    To go into those fine points would be too lengthly, and it would entirely miss the point of this compare and contrast. That is not my definition. Why would I mention algorithmic reasoning without mentioning dynamics, or even a vortical contrast, in this work? It is a definition or summary of Socionics Te, that is both the least lengthy and most concise for this exercise in compare and contrast. Look at the context, of the word comparisons closer.
    Hence my example of Te and algorythmic thinking in the above:



    Reread it Saber...it says "to take this action would be inefficient for these reason." or "The problem would be solved more efficiently if ...."

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    I would rather discuss the difference between the style of math reasoning used in these two videos. The first is Te math, the second is Ti math.


    Te Math



    Ti Math




    Explain this! This is the real heart of Te vs Ti
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    Videos
    Wrong sub-forum for this. Dont derail this, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    They are not consistant. This entire work will be a work to show how Socionics and MBTI are systems that diverge from their origin, which is not a system in and of itself.
    Tail wagging the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Let's start simple with this contrast of known-materials of these 2 systems born from the same base of theory and knowledge.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I found the problem. These are some seriously incomplete instructions. So lets start with ... yeah and then what?
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Tail wagging the dog.
    Dont reply to this if you dont want to be constructive.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I found the problem. These are some seriously incomplete instructions. So lets start with ... yeah and then what?


    What is there not to understand? It compares and contrasts Ti and Te in Socionics and MBTI, and it starts with the basics as a primer. Still, however, you are not looking at the content. Rather, you are critiquing what is not meant to exist.

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    It's easier to identify the functions in a person from Socionics perspective and easer to identify the type from an MBTI; for example, I can see that the person is doing Te or Ti using Socionics, but I can't tell from MBTI; in MBTI, I can tell whether the person is ISTJ or ESTJ as in the whole type.

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    This is the type descriptions of ESTJ and ISTJ; see how they are similar to Socionics? The test sucks and produces inconsistent results

    http://typelogic.com/estj.html
    http://typelogic.com/istj.html

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    I bail out. Talk about what you want then.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    This is the type descriptions of ESTJ and ISTJ; see how they are similar to Socionics? The test sucks and produces inconsistent results

    http://typelogic.com/estj.html
    http://typelogic.com/istj.html
    It doesnt matter; it is out of the context of MBTI, which focuses on self-reporting for the purpose of utility.

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    Great but what does listing differences between those two have to do with anything even though it's just a scratch on the surface. And don't flood me with "content, context, constructive and it doesn't matter."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Dont reply to this if you dont want to be constructive.
    That is entirely constructive.

    It is lacking in thoroughness to use logic that: 'We have an answer and this is the evidence that supports that' as it appears that information is implicitly ignored if it is not what you want to see as opposed to a more comprehensive thought process of 'Here is all of the available evidence, therefore this supports the following answer'.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    That is entirely constructive.

    It is lacking in thoroughness to use logic that: 'We have an answer and this is the evidence that supports that' as it appears that information is implicitly ignored if it is not what you want to see as opposed to a more comprehensive thought process of 'Here is all of the available evidence, therefore this supports the following answer'.
    That is part of the intention. A large part of this practice is to challenge the meaning of each set, stemming from what is out there at this point in time. Please note that this is a thread and not an article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    It's easier to identify the functions in a person from Socionics perspective and easer to identify the type from an MBTI; for example, I can see that the person is doing Te or Ti using Socionics, but I can't tell from MBTI; in MBTI, I can tell whether the person is ISTJ or ESTJ as in the whole type.
    /thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    It doesnt matter; it is out of the context of MBTI, which focuses on self-reporting for the purpose of utility.
    No, it matters. Listen to your daul.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    /thread

    No, it matters. Listen to your daul.
    Why does it matter, so I and others know what you mean, and so I can expand further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Why does it matter, so I and others know what you mean, and so I can expand further.
    Who are you asking? 'Why does it matter' is just a silly question, ask better questions if you want a serious reply from me - it's like saying 'why should I listen to you/her.' Why are you not listening in the first place? Maritsa has already posted something, so address her input and form your reply accordingly. You can dismiss her input as irrelevant afterwards, but if you don't ask the right questions you're not going to get a good answer in general.

    I can form the questions myself and answer them, to the best of my ability, but it is boring, and it's not always helpful/accurate.

    /rant

    this topic is not that serious, I'm just making a general comment

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Who are you asking? 'Why does it matter' is just a silly question, ask better questions if you want a serious reply from me - it's like saying 'why should I listen to you/her.' Why are you not listening in the first place? Maritsa has already posted something, so address her input and form your reply accordingly. You can dismiss her input as irrelevant afterwards, but if you don't ask the right questions you're not going to get a good answer in general.

    I can form the questions myself and answer them, to the best of my ability, but it is boring, and it's not always helpful/accurate.

    /rant

    this topic is not that serious, I'm just making a general comment
    It does matter and it is not from the base of opinion.

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