Tai Chi

[Azure Flame]

For those who don't know what its like to imagine Chi, here is a very quick exercise to know what its like:
1. Focus very hard, imagine a ball of fire inside your diaphragm
2.let the ball of fire grow bigger and bigger, now condense it so it holds just as much energy but is smaller in volume
3. once its big enough, imagine that fire energy coursing through your veins and into the palms of your hands
4. once the energy reaches your palms, imagine holding large metal spheres in your hands
5. now imagine the spheres are growing heavier and heavier, and you have to lift harder and harder while still intensifying the flame in your diafragm which feeds the energy
6. imagine the spheres growing infinitely heavy and you have to physically hold them with infinite power in return
7. now punch through a brick wall with the strength you are feeling (not recommended).

Extroverted Sensing can sense levels of motivation in people, their inertia, their momentum (do those mean the same thing!?) and also willpower.

For me personally, I'll often comment, "that's a big dude!" but the guy is actually shorter and weighs less than myself. I'll sense that he has a lot of inertia, that I can't push him around like a blow up punching bag.

When sparring partners in martial arts, I reflexively know where all their kicks and punches will go, and I know how to fake kicks to get them where their guard is down.

With that being said, I wonder if what I'm sensing is the same thing as Qi (usually known as Chi).

Some people have a very stolid appearance. A Tai Chi dude once told my friend that he had a lot of Chi, then pointed to his large stomach.

My friend is large and immovable, like a sumo wrestler.



Do you think this energy that I some of us can see, is Chi? Enneagram tends to talk a lot about energy. MBTI would list ENTJ's as being "big energy people" as well which implies it acknowledges energy levels.

This energy could even be the reason this type of music makes it feel as if there is energy pumping through my limbs and out my fingertips, I wonder if any of the other Se egos experience anything similar?:


So do you think this is the same thing as Chi? With my limited understanding, I think it is, just not harnessed and controlled in a way Tai Chi masters would harness it. What do you think?

[munenori2]

lol

Chi ain't type related, bro.

[Azure Flame]

Enneagram specifically talks about how each type channels energy differently. I think it is.

This website even relates accupressure to enneagram
http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/

[munenori2]

holy shit you're right

if the website says it's true

then it must be true

[Azure Flame]

I'm skeptical of accupressure as it is, I never said the website was 100% true. You must not be a Ti user

[munenori2]

Because that is a totally valid and sound assertion.

[Azure Flame]

how is this forum 90% trolls?

[munenori2]

my imaginary steel balls are bigger than your imaginary steel balls

But really, people can disagree with you without being trolls.

also I'm glad you edited that post

[Azure Flame]

Well you can disagree all you want but you don't contribute anything further to the conversation, so why even bother? You just look like a dick if you can't justify yourself.

"you're wrong. nuff said buh bye"

[munenori2]

What the hell counts as constructive in this thread? I've experienced intensity, fire in the blood, focus and I'm pretty plainly non Se. I'm guessing most people who have delved into physical shit encounter the same but I'm not intellectually flailing about thinking that falls into a fraction of humankind and how I'm a supersaiyan because I do. It's called biochemistry.

[silke]

When you encounter this term "energy" have you ever wondered what exactly does it mean? It gets frequently mentioned on various new age websites and literature on esoteric subjects, but the authors usually don’t offer any explanation detailing the nature of this “energy” phenomenon. What kind of energy are they talking about? Is it kinetic or potential, electromagnetic or nuclear? Where does it originate from and do the laws of thermodynamics kindly look upon its spontaneous creation via visualization techniques? Imo you should give this further thought before you try to ram it into enneagram and Jung.

on karma-joules and soul-hartrees - http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4002

This energy could even be the reason this type of music makes it feel as if there is energy pumping through my limbs and out my fingertips, I wonder if any of the other Se egos experience anything similar?

That may simply be a consequence of you being young, in which case I wouldn't call that feeling "energy" but rather "vitality".

[Reuben]

I know someone who practices Qi Gong (Chi-Gung or whatever they call it in America). He has demonstrated to me how his use of Qi to strengthen parts of his body can reduce the physical impact taken by those parts. Usually Qi is collected at the bottom of the navel, but obviously a big belly in itself has no direct co-relation to Qi. And yes, he is Se-ego (SLE).

The inertia that you described is what he called 'groundedness'. It can be used offensively as well. The concept is that of striking out from a solid base where power comes from the legs, as opposed to just a solid center where one easily maintains balance but a lack of power.

Qi definitely has elements of Se, but I can also see how other elements are related. You need Si to sense the flow of energy within the body, Ni to have a concentrated mental focus, and Ti to know decide how to strategically apply Qi etc. How and why Qi is used can be more indicative of type, than the Qi itself.

That may simply be a consequence of you being young, in which case I wouldn't call that feeling "energy" but rather "vitality".

With regards to what siuntal mentioned, I agree with her, but vitality can also be linked to Se.

[Azure Flame]

When you encounter this term "energy" have you ever wondered what exactly does it mean? It gets frequently mentioned on various new age websites and literature on esoteric subjects, but the authors usually don’t offer any explanation detailing the nature of this “energy” phenomenon. What kind of energy are they talking about? Is it kinetic or potential, electromagnetic or nuclear? Where does it originate from and do the laws of thermodynamics kindly look upon its spontaneous creation via visualization techniques? Imo you should give this further thought before you try to ram it into enneagram and Jung.

on karma-joules and soul-hartrees - http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4002


That may simply be a consequence of you being young, in which case I wouldn't call that feeling "energy" but rather "vitality".

Yes I'm just looking for your thoughts on the subject. What is this energy? Where does it come from? etc.

My theory is that this energy that is being described across several personality systems, and they're all referring to the same type of energy or vitality. I'm curious to hear what others theorize on the topic.

I think the word "vitality" is a cop out. It doesn't describe what's going on in any sort of physical, kinetic, or chemical sense, its more of an adjective than anything.

munenori, you can stop flailing now

[Azure Flame]

I know someone who practices Qi Gong (Chi-Gung or whatever they call it in America). He has demonstrated to me how his use of Qi to strengthen parts of his body can reduce the physical impact taken by those parts. Usually Qi is collected at the bottom of the navel, but obviously a big belly in itself has no direct co-relation to Qi. And yes, he is Se-ego (SLE).

The inertia that you described is what he called 'groundedness'. It can be used offensively as well. The concept is that of striking out from a solid base where power comes from the legs, as opposed to just a solid center where one easily maintains balance but a lack of power.

Qi definitely has elements of Se, but I can also see how other elements are related. You need Si to sense the flow of energy within the body, Ni to have a concentrated mental focus, and Ti to know decide how to strategically apply Qi etc. How and why Qi is used can be more indicative of type, than the Qi itself.



With regards to what siuntal mentioned, I agree with her, but vitality can also be linked to Se.

So with your knowledge of Qi, do you think Se has an ability to see Qi distribution in other people? Or is that something anyone can do with a trained eye? I would agree that Si can sense its flow within the invdividual's body. My LII brother often describes a lot of sensations I'm not familiar with. He'll tell me his palms vibrate when he thinks about Qi flowing to them, he'll tell me his feet tingle when he gets vertigo, stuff like that. None of that stuff happens to me.

I'm thinking specifically of ninjas right now. Its said they had a strange ability to read minds. One possible explanation was that they're all SXE's cuz that's what we do normally (its not an absolute ability to read minds but we can pretty much know if there is some sort of physical expression giving us a slight hint). I'm curious to know if Se is somehow involved in a lot of this, if Ninjas were trained to notice the nuances in non-verbal communication or pick up energies that would make them so effective when countering enemy strikes.

Ninjitsu is primarily a defensive martial art based mostly on waiting for the other person to strike. Reactive counterattacking takes a lot of quick reaction timing, game theory, and watching the other person's eyes if I want to make a productive counterattack. When I watch the other person's eyes I can sense what limb is going to strike me where. Likewise, I'll use this, combined with Fe when making a fake kick and tricking the person that I'm going to attack high when I actually plan on attacking low. Do you understand where I'm going with this? I don't think I have a clear question because there is so much on the topic I'd like to learn about.

I'd just like to hear people's thoughts on the matter in general.

Here's a quick search
http://taoism.about.com/od/qi/a/Qi.htm

Feeling the Qi

The capacity to perceive the flow of qi directly -- to actually see or feel it -- is something that can be cultivated through training in qigong or acupuncture. Like any skill, some people are better at it than others: for some it seems to come “naturally,” for others it’s more of a challenge. Even if it’s not consciously cultivated or acknowledged, most of us can tell the difference between someone who has “great energy” and someone from whom we feel a “bad vibe.” And most of us are able to notice, when we enter a room, whether the atmosphere seems relaxed and uplifted, or tense and heavy. To the extent that we notice such things, we are tuning into the level of qi.
We might be in the habit of perceiving our world in terms of solid shapes and forms. What Taoism teaches is that we can train ourselves to perceive in other ways; and a good place to start is with our own human body. Though we may now experience our body as being rather solid, at a molecular level it is comprised mostly of water – a very fluid substance! And at an atomic level it is 99.99% space – a vast (and infinitely intelligent) emptiness.

As we practice qigong and Inner Alchemy, we cultivate the capacity to perceive at all of these different levels – to feel ourselves and our world as fluid, and as spacious; as well as being filled with apparently-solid forms. As we become more adept in this way, we become aware, directly, of the vibratory nature of all-that-is. Not only do we experience our bodies as being comprised of patterns and flows of qi, but also come to understand that “emotions” and “thoughts” are also forms of energy. These insights give rise then to the potential for newly-powerful and deliciously-creative action within this tremoring world.

[Absurd]

You would make a good stand up comedian.

So with your knowledge of Qi[...]

This is pure physics to your information and you're delineating information elements instead of actual physics symbols(?)

Ninjitsu is primarily a defensive martial art based mostly on waiting for the other person to strike.

It is actually centered around stealth/escape skills, which means you strike first/avoid combat. Self-explanatory...

[squirreltual]

Or is that something anyone can do with a trained eye?

Yes.

Yes I'm just looking for your thoughts on the subject. What is this energy? Where does it come from? etc.

There is one primordial energy pouring into various embodiments. It is fluid, rhythmic. The world is nothing but this energy.

Nice, simple. Why gunk it up with Ti?

I'm curious to know if Se is somehow involved in a lot of this, if Ninjas were trained to notice the nuances in non-verbal communication or pick up energies that would make them so effective when countering enemy strikes.

I don't think Se over other functions, no.

[Azure Flame]

Yes.




There is one primordial energy pouring into various embodiments. It is fluid, rhythmic. The world is nothing but this energy.

Nice, simple. Why gunk it up with Ti?




I don't think Se over other functions, no.

Would you say money is also this energy?

[squirreltual]

Would you say money is also this energy?

the flow of money, yes. The money itself is just symbolic.

[ArchonAlarion]

Extroverted Sensing can sense levels of motivation in people, their inertia, their momentum (do those mean the same thing!?) and also willpower.

For me personally, I'll often comment, "that's a big dude!" but the guy is actually shorter and weighs less than myself. I'll sense that he has a lot of inertia, that I can't push him around like a blow up punching bag.

When sparring partners in martial arts, I reflexively know where all their kicks and punches will go, and I know how to fake kicks to get them where their guard is down.

I like this way of describing Se. I've heard Se ego types say this sort of stuff and the idea can be applied to Ne in some sense. In a similar way that an Se type would gauge the physical magnitude and capabilities of an object or person, an Ne ego would gauge the object's potential contextual manifestations; the variety of contexts that the object could appear in some form or another and how it's presence would alter the context. So, even some minor detail could be an open window to a multiplicity of contextual relevancies, in the same way that an Se ego would pick up on the "bigness" of a small guy. As an Ne ego, I pick up on tiny details that I see or think or hear that for some reason seem to have an expansive relevancy, as if they hold a key to a great paradigmatic shift, which I glimpse unfolding . Then I usually forget about it, or otherwise become disinterested, unless the source of the glimpse reappears frequently, in which case it becomes a long-term object of thought. I feel I have no kinetic energy though, just a sort of radar for potential shifts in the energy equilibrium of the wide world/environment/context/whatever. That's the way it seems to me, even if I have no such ability in a practical sense.

[Azure Flame]

the flow of money, yes. The money itself is just symbolic.

interesting. The reason I ask was because I view money as energy. Money, currency, trade, effort, etc. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it only changes forms. If someone views that as Qi then... perhaps this is a phylosophy I should adopt more in my pursuit to hoard as much energy as I can in order to accomplish my goals.

[Reuben]

One possible explanation was that they're all SXE's cuz that's what we do normally

Heh no I don't think you should get so attached to that idea. Qi, like almost everything else, has different information elements at play on different levels.

Even if it’s not consciously cultivated or acknowledged, most of us can tell the difference between someone who has “great energy” and someone from whom we feel a “bad vibe.”

For example, the article you quoted uses this as an example to describe an element of Qi, and if anything it sounds Fe to me.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Enneagram specifically talks about how each type channels energy differently. I think it is.

This website even relates accupressure to enneagram
http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/

The 7 suggestions describes me, not that that is indicative of it being true.

[Absurd]

Looks like mostly alpha people are into this funny "Buddhist" business. Help me to help you find you. I'll drop you off in lost and found, okay?

Heh no I don't think you should get so attached to that idea. Qi, like almost everything else, has different information elements at play on different levels.

No, no. He better post pic of Qi for V.I. so everyone can decide.

[squirreltual]

interesting. The reason I ask was because I view money as energy. Money, currency, trade, effort, etc. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it only changes forms. If someone views that as Qi then... perhaps this is a phylosophy I should adopt more in my pursuit to hoard as much energy as I can in order to accomplish my goals.

Woah there nelly. Hoarding anything impedes it's flow and is quite undesirable. The idea is not to be immovable like your friend, but yielding and fluid like water. If you hoard, you are repeatedly reinforcing to yourself: "There is not enough". It creates fear and the wrong focus. Ime, it's better to join the dance of this energy and channel it gently and with patience. If you try hold on too tightly to something, you will lose it.

[Absurd]

If you try hold on too tightly to something, you will lose it.

How can you lose something you never had?

[squirreltual]

How can you lose something you never had?

DJ is completely destitute with not a penny to his name?

Or are you speaking about the topic of ownership of resources more generally?

[Absurd]

DJ is completely destitute with not a penny to his name?

How can you lose something you never had? In material world can you lose the wallet you don't have? As for DJA, I don't know, I don't sleep with him, you answer that. Oh, you already did.

[squirreltual]

How can you lose something you never had? In material world can you lose the wallet you don't have?

You cannot use excessive force to hold something you aren't holding. Irrelevant question is irrelevant.

[Absurd]

You cannot use excessive force to hold something you aren't holding. Irrelevant question is irrelevant.

Now you got really funny.

If you try hold on too tightly to something, you will lose it.

How can you use excessive force to hold something you aren't holding?

[squirreltual]

It's ok Absurd. It's all going to be ok. Life is only temporary anyway.

[Absurd]

It's ok Absurd. It's all going to be ok. Life is only temporary anyway.

It's not temporary. Biologically extending one's line means I'm going to live forever. You, I don't know

[squirreltual]

It is temporary in some contexts... but yes dear, of course it does. No need to worry about my genes sweetpea

[Absurd]

It is temporary in some contexts... but yes dear, of course it does. No need to worry about my genes sweetpea

I don't worry about it. Don't know what gave you that idea.

Elaborate, though, so DJA and everyone can do the Buddhist monk job and predict strikes of their opponents like a true Ninja using only the energy of cash, that is, heat, when it passes hands...

Oh, doesn't monk job rhyme with wackjob?

[squirreltual]

I don't worry about it. Don't know what gave you that idea.

Elaborate, though, so DJA and everyone can do the Buddhist monk job and predict strikes of their opponents like a true Ninja using only the energy of cash, that is, heat, when it passes hands...

Oh, doesn't monk job rhyme with wackjob?

You assumed via grammatical ambiguity. I was just reminded about a missing tin opener. In the mean time drink Chrysanthemum tea and ask a Buddhist about Buddhism. You make a lot of assumptions. I luff you benefactaww but I think you could strengthen yourself with ze tea and stuff. Namaste motherdawg.

[GuavaDrunk]

Ninjitsu is primarily a defensive martial art based mostly on waiting for the other person to strike. Reactive counterattacking takes a lot of quick reaction timing, game theory, and watching the other person's eyes if I want to make a productive counterattack. When I watch the other person's eyes I can sense what limb is going to strike me where. Likewise, I'll use this, combined with Fe when making a fake kick and tricking the person that I'm going to attack high when I actually plan on attacking low. Do you understand where I'm going with this? I don't think I have a clear question because there is so much on the topic I'd like to learn about.

Standard fighting techniques. NTR.

[Suz]

Incidentally, I just started learning Tai Chi. MOstly for body-awareness purposes. And I wanted to learn a martial art that didn't have any contact. It's effects are pretty cool already!

[Aquagraph]

You just look like a dick if you can't justify yourself.

He was funny. You weren't. Most of the contribution in your threads have been done by "trolls".

[silke]

Yes I'm just looking for your thoughts on the subject. What is this energy? Where does it come from? etc.

My theory is that this energy that is being described across several personality systems, and they're all referring to the same type of energy or vitality. I'm curious to hear what others theorize on the topic.

I was pointing out that the word "energy" is often applied in too ambiguous and often misleading manner, and that whoever wrote that MBTI and enneagram material could have used a more specific descriptor - vitality, strength, health, ambiance of a location, object and place memory, types of emotional and mental states, force, potential and kinetic energy, spirituality, soul, existence, living experience, personal charisma, attraction, likability, interest, focus, concentration, etc. It looked like you were mixing several different topics because they all made referenced to the same term, that is simply misapplied in most cases.

Good demonstration of Ni-seeking btw - the way you looking for someone else to unite all these concepts into single focal point.

I think the word "vitality" is a cop out. It doesn't describe what's going on in any sort of physical, kinetic, or chemical sense, its more of an adjective than anything.

Any textbook on biochemistry and especially the chapters on metabolism will give you the layout of what's happening in "chemical sense". If you are looking for a more metaphysical treatment of the subject, may be look into creating a thread in philosophy subforum.

Would you say money is also this energy?

e=mc2: all matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration

[ashlesha]

Good demonstration of Ni-seeking btw - the way you looking for someone else to unite all these concepts into single focal point.

nah its usually the alpha nt's on here who come up with this qi=se, clouds=ne, chairs=ti kind of bullshit. i think ile is a decent typing for dja but even if that's not his type this is definitely more a ti thing. "single focal point" sounds like some static ti thing too.

[silke]

nah its usually the alpha nt's on here who come up with this qi=se, clouds=ne, chairs=ti kind of bullshit. i think ile is a decent typing for dja but even if that's not his type this is definitely more a ti thing. "single focal point" sounds like some static ti thing too.

That's not what I was referring to. DjA was looking for a common 'essence' among all these unrelated subjects, which looked like focal Pi that labster wrote about some time ago.