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Thread: Confucius

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    Default Confucius

    aNY GUESSES? ITXX for sure.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ISTj is a possibility
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ISTj is a possibility
    Yes, Ti I would say too. Isn't he too smart for ISTJ?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Confucius say, tankboy so dumb, he ESFP.

    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Confucius say, tankboy so dumb, he ESFP.

    You really want to see my tank don't you?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Confucius say, tankboy so dumb, he ESFP.

    bongggggggggg~!

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Confucius say, tankboy so dumb, he ESFP.


    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Hello Dioklecian,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Isn't he too smart for ISTJ?
    As far as I know, being smart doesn't depend on type. Many ISTJs are/were highly intelligent.

    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ISTj is a possibility
    Yes, Ti I would say too. Isn't he too smart for ISTJ?
    As if EIEs only dualize with dumb people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Hello Dioklecian,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Isn't he too smart for ISTJ?
    As far as I know, being smart doesn't depend on type. Many ISTJs are/were highly intelligent.

    Kindly,
    It was sort of a joke, by "smart" I meant "bookish", confucius comes accross as a scholar, while ISTJs I have known tend to be more...practical, thats' all.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    I see your point. I don't know much about him, but in that culture, such intiutive thought processes prolly weren't rewarded as well as getting things accomplished (not that I would really know). It seems hard to believe that even a very intelligent sensor wouldn't be as inclined to spend his time and efforts philosophizing...

    Is INTj a possibility?
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    Confucius "didn't spend his time philosophizing", he was a government bureaucrat and his ideas were about efficient benelovent government following traditions and procedures, based on clear lines of duty and responsibility.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Philosophize is the worst word ever.

    Like there's the "philosophical world" and the "real world." And you travel between the two by "philosophizing."

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    1.To speculate in a philosophical manner.
    2.To set forth or express a moralistic, often superficial philosophy.

    weird i didnt know it was a real word.

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    Thanks for clearing that up Dioklecian. Making subtle jokes over the internet tends not to work, so I missed your intended meaning.


    I remember reading that Confucianism is/was pragmatic, and that a Vietnamese king, King Tran-Thai-Ton, used its principles to govern his country, with great success.

    As for Confucius being bookish, I'm not sure of this because I believe that he was an expert in archery and horsemanship, and Confucianism aims to become a balanced person.

    However, I am open to correction.


    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    were his sayings recorded by him or those around him?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    By his disciples, disciples of disciples, etc.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    were his sayings recorded by him or those around him?
    What we have of his teachings basically comes to us by word of mouth after the Q'in dynasty rule in China post 206BC. (During this period, there was a massive anti-dissent movement in China, called "The Burning of Books and Burial of Scholars." If Confucius or any of his direct disciples wrote anything down, it was probably lost during this time.) He's pretty much as typeable as Jesus.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    were his sayings recorded by him or those around him?
    What we have of his teachings basically comes to us by word of mouth after the Q'in dynasty rule in China post 206BC. (During this period, there was a massive anti-dissent movement in China, called "The Burning of Books and Burial of Scholars." If Confucius or any of his direct disciples wrote anything down, it was probably lost during this time.) He's pretty much as typeable as Jesus.
    ENFJ
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    lol, well I didn't say he was anything like Jesus, but that we have about as much information on him as we do on Jesus. For what it's worth, here is a translation of The Analects. They seem to read with a lot of distillation and sense of ethics, but please don't hold me to it: http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/analects.htm
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    I mean that Jesus wa ENFJ, in my humble, mortal, sinner, opinion.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    lol, well I didn't say he was anything like Jesus, but that we have about as much information on him as we do on Jesus. For what it's worth, here is a translation of The Analects. They seem to read with a lot of distillation and sense of ethics, but please don't hold me to it: http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/analects.htm
    If I may ask (and thank you for the link), what is the difference between Fe ethics and Fi ethics in brief, sort of theessence ofthe matter? For some reason it always escapes me.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    lol, well I didn't say he was anything like Jesus, but that we have about as much information on him as we do on Jesus. For what it's worth, here is a translation of The Analects. They seem to read with a lot of distillation and sense of ethics, but please don't hold me to it: http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/analects.htm
    If I may ask (and thank you for the link), what is the difference between Fe ethics and Fi ethics in brief, sort of theessence ofthe matter? For some reason it always escapes me.
    To be honest, I don't really know, myself. In the most simplisticterms, I've seen them described: Fe = social ethics (percieved as patterns among objects "He/she/it/them"), Fi = personal ethics (percieved through the subject "I").
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    lol, well I didn't say he was anything like Jesus, but that we have about as much information on him as we do on Jesus. For what it's worth, here is a translation of The Analects. They seem to read with a lot of distillation and sense of ethics, but please don't hold me to it: http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/analects.htm
    If I may ask (and thank you for the link), what is the difference between Fe ethics and Fi ethics in brief, sort of theessence ofthe matter? For some reason it always escapes me.
    To be honest, I don't really know, myself. In the most simplisticterms, I've seen them described: Fe = social ethics, Fi = personal ethics.
    Thank you.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Default Confucius

    [web:658870b2d4]http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Confucius[/web:658870b2d4]

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    ISFj?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    LSI is a possibility as well I think.

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    Anyway a Gamma or Delta type.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    LSI is a possibility as well I think.
    Hmmm......he seems to be anti-Ti and pro-Fi imo.

    Anyway, more info from wikipedia:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teachings
    In the Analects, Confucius presents himself as a "transmitter who invented nothing".[7] He put the greatest emphasis on the importance of study,[21][22] and it is the Chinese character for study (or learning) that opens the text. In this respect, he is seen by Chinese people as the Greatest Master.[23] Far from trying to build a systematic theory of life and society or establish a formalism of rites, he wanted his disciples to think deeply for themselves and relentlessly study the outside world,[24] mostly through the old scriptures and by relating the moral problems of the present to past political events (like the Annals) or past expressions of feelings by common people and reflective members of the elite (preserved in the poems of the Book of Odes[25]).[26]

    In times of division, chaos, and endless wars between feudal states, he wanted to restore the Mandate of Heaven that could unify the "world" (i.e. China) and bestow peace and prosperity on the people.[27] Because his vision of personal and social perfections was framed as a revival of the ordered society of earlier times, Confucius is often considered a great proponent of conservatism, but a closer look at what he proposes often shows that he used (and perhaps twisted) past institutions and rites to push a new political agenda of his own: a revival of a unified royal state, whose rulers would succeed to power on the basis of their moral merit, not their parentage;[28][29] these would be rulers devoted to their people, reaching for personal and social perfection.[30] Such a ruler would spread his own virtues to the people instead of imposing proper behavior with laws and rules.[31]

    One of the deepest teachings of Confucius may have been the superiority of personal exemplification over explicit rules of behavior. Because his moral teachings emphasise self-cultivation, emulation of moral exemplars, and the attainment of skilled judgment rather than knowledge of rules, Confucius's ethics may be considered a type of virtue ethics. His teachings rarely rely on reasoned argument, and ethical ideals and methods are conveyed more indirectly, through allusions, innuendo, and even tautology. This is why his teachings need to be examined and put into proper context in order to be understood.[32][33]
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy
    Although Confucianism is often followed in a religious manner by the Chinese, arguments continue over whether it is a religion. Confucianism lacks an afterlife, its texts express complex and ambivalent views concerning deities, and it is relatively unconcerned with some spiritual matters often considered essential to religious thought, such as the nature of the soul.

    Confucius' principles gained wide acceptance primarily because of their basis in common Chinese tradition and belief. He championed strong familial loyalty, ancestor worship, respect of elders by their children (and, according to later interpreters, of husbands by their wives), and the family as a basis for an ideal government. He expressed the well-known principle, "Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself" (this looks familiar.....)(similar to the Golden Rule). He also looked nostalgically upon earlier days, and urged the Chinese, particularly those with political power, to model themselves on earlier examples. "The superior man seeks for it in himself. The petty man seeks for it in others"
    Quote Originally Posted by Politics
    Confucius' political thought is based upon his ethical thought. He argues that the best government is one that rules through "rites" (lǐ) and people's natural morality, rather than by using bribery and coercion. He explained that this is one of the most important analects: 1. "If the people be led by laws, and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment, but have no sense of shame. If they be led by virtue, and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of shame, and moreover will become good." (Translated by James Legge) {The Great Learning} This "sense of shame" is an internalisation of duty, where the punishment precedes the evil action, instead of following it in the form of laws as in Legalism.

    While he supported the idea of government by an all-powerful sage, ruling as an Emperor, probably because of the chaotic state of China at his time, his ideas contained a number of elements to limit the power of rulers. He argued for according language with truth; thus honesty was of paramount importance. Even in facial expression, truth must always be represented. In discussing the relationship between a subject and his king (or a son and his father), he underlined the need to give due respect to superiors. This demanded that the inferior must give advice to his superior if the superior was considered to be taking the wrong course of action. This was built upon a century after Confucius's death by his latter day disciple Mencius, who argued that if the king was not acting like a king, he would lose the Mandate of Heaven and be overthrown. Therefore, tyrannicide is justified because a tyrant is more a thief than a king. Other Confucian texts, though celebrating absolute rule by ethical sages, recognise the failings of real rulers in maxims such as, "An oppressive government is more feared than a tiger."

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    My first thought was JSI (yes the J is intentional). Of LSI or ESI, I am inclined to lean towards ESI as his focus was not on the logic of creative-, but more on how to carry their ethics in all that they do.
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