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Thread: WikiLeaks - enemy of the United States

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    Default WikiLeaks - enemy of the United States

    "THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States - the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.

    Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with "communicating with the enemy", a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death."

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...927-26m7s.html
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    American's eh? Freedom of speech, but if you exercise it you will die by our hand!

    I don't think wikileaks is remotely dangerous; review Warren Buffets perspective:

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Buffet
    As I’ve said in these memos for more than 25 years: We can afford to lose money – even a lot of money. But we can’t afford to lose reputation – even a shred of reputation.” We must continue to measure every act against not only what is legal but also what we would be happy to have written about on the front page of a national newspaper in an article written by an unfriendly but intelligent reporter.
    Wikileaks is just that unfriendly but intelligent reporter; if governments/militaries have problems with what they do being spread then they shouldn't do it in the first place.

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    I watched one WikiLeaks video and it was pretty horrific so I can see why the U.S. military would do this as they probably don't want their skeletons coming out of the closet imo.
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    Where there's a will, there's a way. Remember, the US government once tried to ban alcohol, look how that turned out. If people want to communicate to each other, warn each other of danger, I don't see how they'd effectively stop that.

    Btw, LOL @ the Poll results at the bottom:

    Poll: Do you agree with the US designation of Julian Assange as an "enemy of state"?

    Yes - 9%

    No - 89%

    Don't Know - 2%

    Total Votes: 6,921.

    Apparently almost 90% of people think the US government is being ridiculous, or trying to cover their butts, or some combination of the two.

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    he's a false flag operative.

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    If American's had the backbone and the tradition required, you'd be out demonstrating every day. Seriously, your government is maybe the most fucked up in the human history and the wars you have waged most of your existence are turning more and more ridiculous.

    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    The forefathers of United States gave the right to bear arms so that the citizens can overthrow a tyrannic government. Be a model citizen and slaughter the White House to restore the healthy fear of the power of the people.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    The forefathers are probably damn well rolling in their graves...
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    The forefathers of United States gave the right to bear arms so that the citizens can overthrow a tyrannic government. Be a model citizen and slaughter the White House to restore the healthy fear of the power of the people.
    I laughed out loud now.

    And I wonder what constitutes this tyrannical government just going by decades in American history, especially related to gun control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    The forefathers are probably damn well rolling in their graves...
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    The forefathers of United States gave the right to bear arms so that the citizens can overthrow a tyrannic government. Be a model citizen and slaughter the White House to restore the healthy fear of the power of the people.
    How does it make sense that the forefathers put the power to overthrow a corrupt government into the hands of the masses, yet structured their government presupposing the masses are intellectually indolent and prevented them from participating directly in political affairs? The forefathers are probably just another bunch of jackasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    How does it make sense that the forefathers put the power to overthrow a corrupt government into the hands of the masses, yet structured their government presupposing the masses are intellectually indolent and prevented them from participating directly in political affairs? The forefathers are probably just another bunch of jackasses.
    What would have been your idea? The efficiency of the democracy is in correlation with the intellectuallism of the voters.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    What would have been your idea?
    In the past, a civilian could have owned a rifle of superior quality to the organized military. Firearms are not now nearly as straightforward, widespread, widely used or unregulated as they were in the past. Not even specialized military engineers could possibly understand the smallest fraction of the US armory, not to mention that you could be imprisoned for looking into it. We wouldn't stand a chance.

    Technology has complicated everything, and for that reason I only have real ideas past the end of the industrial revolution. We must think in new ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    The efficiency of the democracy is in correlation with the intellectuallism of the voters.
    Was their version of democracy the best choice of their time? I don't know. I know only that in my generation the thing it has become is the most abominable system known hitherto to man and that there is 0 chance it will be reset through an armed revolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    he's a false flag operative.
    yer

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    How does it make sense that the forefathers put the power to overthrow a corrupt government into the hands of the masses, yet structured their government presupposing the masses are intellectually indolent and prevented them from participating directly in political affairs? The forefathers are probably just another bunch of jackasses.
    it's not that simple. the idea of democracy was both an ideological and social compromise between what they believed to be the most powerful and encompassing values for a populace, and the necessity of certain political boundaries they had experienced the hardships of. you don't simply rebel against the people who versed you in the histories and sciences because they're too tyrannical, it's hypocritical and unfeasible. what you do is find the best outlet to create something that combines the good parts of your past with your vision of the future. of course there had to be bloodshed, internecine strife is inevitable so long as people seek power; but they did the best they could, without outright tossing everything to the flames and praying the remnants would gather themselves in time for a real uprising. they didn't create a convoluted set of laws (the bill of rights is as basic as it gets) to counteract mass-scale stupidity, but in the hope that by anchoring those laws with inviolable rights, a certain boundary would always be upheld; and that perhaps, if it were ever impinged on, the need for legislature would diminish, as people came together in the face of despotism. just because americans have allowed collusive executive orders to slip by as their tax dollars are funneled into the pockets of shadowy bankers doesn't mean there isn't merit to both the intent and design of our country's foundations. your criticism is akin to catholics' horror-stricken shrieks at satan's infiltration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    Technology has complicated everything, and for that reason I only have real ideas past the end of the industrial revolution. We must think in new ways.
    Probably yes. But some amount bloodshed will likely enter the equation if the government was to be overthrown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    Was their version of democracy the best choice of their time? I don't know. I know only that in my generation the thing it has become is the most abominable system known hitherto to man and that there is 0 chance it will be reset through an armed revolution.
    Saying that it is most abominable is pretty extreme but I can see what you mean. Still:
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Churchill
    Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.
    When the founding fathers did what they did they probably didn't think about the potential of cruise missiles, active denial systems and tanks, not to mention the vast psychological warfare. Still the average American soldier is psychologically more or less ready to kill non-Westerners but I'd expect a lot side swapping if the army would be sent against the citizens back home.
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    Heh, let's just rest on FDR's struggle against the British Empire and freedoms he outlined to his would be assassination with the help of a firearm. It means, "people" rose up against his tyranny and four freedoms he presented. That, again, means, people rose up against freedom so to speak.

    This forum is hilarious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    yer



    it's not that simple. the idea of democracy was both an ideological and social compromise between what they believed to be the most powerful and encompassing values for a populace, and the necessity of certain political boundaries they had experienced the hardships of. you don't simply rebel against the people who versed you in the histories and sciences because they're too tyrannical, it's hypocritical and unfeasible. what you do is find the best outlet to create something that combines the good parts of your past with your vision of the future. of course there had to be bloodshed, internecine strife is inevitable so long as people seek power; but they did the best they could, without outright tossing everything to the flames and praying the remnants would gather themselves in time for a real uprising. they didn't create a convoluted set of laws (the bill of rights is as basic as it gets) to counteract mass-scale stupidity, but in the hope that by anchoring those laws with inviolable rights, a certain boundary would always be upheld; and that perhaps, if it were ever impinged on, the need for legislature would diminish, as people came together in the face of despotism. just because americans have allowed collusive executive orders to slip by as their tax dollars are funneled into the pockets of shadowy bankers doesn't mean there isn't merit to both the intent and design of our country's foundations. your criticism is akin to catholics' horror-stricken shrieks at satan's infiltration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Probably yes. But some amount bloodshed will likely enter the equation if the government was to be overthrown.

    Saying that it is most abominable is pretty extreme but I can see what you mean. Still:

    When the founding fathers did what they did they probably didn't think about the potential of cruise missiles, active denial systems and tanks, not to mention the vast psychological warfare. Still the average American soldier is psychologically more or less ready to kill non-Westerners but I'd expect a lot side swapping if the army would be sent against the citizens back home.
    I have assumed to much of the founding fathers; as you both say, there were many complex and unpredictable difficulties they had to deal with. I will reserve my judgement for more recent events.

    I had not considered the notion of side swapping, Aquagraph. However, it may be overshadowed by groups (speculated; China/western Euro) that fund/arm/support one side, take the spoils and then brutally exploit the remaining populace in the same manner America does today. It could also give momentum and justification to besieged rights and liberties. I've always thought an economic revolution may produce more positive results, for it is capable of producing unstoppable chain reactions. Its effects may prove just as disastrous, however (WW3?).

    Whatever we do, it must be done quickly, for a countdown has been introduced that man has never known before; the rapidity at which nations learn to apply technology to oppress and control its people. I had no idea shit like 'active denial systems' are being developed.

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    It's stupid that they try to charge against Assange and Wikileaks, mostly because neither Assange nor Wikileaks are responsible for what is happening now, they merely represent the tip of an iceberg that is the invisible information process that is happening around us. Two way communication means, namely, Internet, are slowly but steadly replacing traditional one-way means of communication such as tv, newspapers and the radio. People not only knows more and more, they know about it faster and can share the information with others And this caused, without planning, that everyone connected to the web became a source of information because they are not simply passive recipients, they can pass along their opinions about what they see and this leads to organization. The general population of a country will always be much bigger than its goverment and thus goverments are fighting a losing battle when it comes to the flow of information. It's merely a large force driving a smaller one; no law, no intimidation and no prosecution is going to reverse it because nobody in particular is responsible for it; we all are.

    If anything, those in power need to get used to the idea that people, from now on, will know what they are doing at all tmes. And eventually, that will mean the fall of all who are not in line.
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    everyone here has successfully missed the point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    everyone here has successfully missed the point
    Which is?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Which is?
    idk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's stupid that they try to charge against Assange and Wikileaks, mostly because neither Assange nor Wikileaks are responsible for what is happening now, they merely represent the tip of an iceberg that is the invisible information process that is happening around us. Two way communication means, namely, Internet, are slowly but steadly replacing traditional one-way means of communication such as tv, newspapers and the radio. People not only knows more and more, they know about it faster and can share the information with others And this caused, without planning, that everyone connected to the web became a source of information because they are not simply passive recipients, they can pass along their opinions about what they see and this leads to organization. The general population of a country will always be much bigger than its goverment and thus goverments are fighting a losing battle when it comes to the flow of information. It's merely a large force driving a smaller one; no law, no intimidation and no prosecution is going to reverse it because nobody in particular is responsible for it; we all are.

    If anything, those in power need to get used to the idea that people, from now on, will know what they are doing at all tmes. And eventually, that will mean the fall of all who are not in line.
    Maybe. But existing governments wish to regulate the distribution of information, i.e. the internet, and in the US we see legislation like SOPA, PIPA and others to monitor and control end user activity. If that's the case, it is we who will fall in line or else fall into prison. When power is so far removed from the people, it's not governmental transparency and a demand for justice; it's citizen transparency and a legal mandate for conformity.

    They already forcibly take down information distribution websites (megaupload) and receive information from corporate mega giants about our emails, searches, expressions, beliefs etc. (Google, Facebook). Soon they'll be extending that monitoring to any and all internet activity in the name of domestic tranquility from terrorism or what have you.

    It could still go in many different directions I grant; I find the piracy party in Germany a somewhat inspiring, if not comical uprising of disgust for internet control . All the same, it is more probable that doom and gloom await us (especially in the US) and not our governments.

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    What part of losing battle is not clear? Yes, they can take down a site and get some people into jail, so what? Are you going to tell me that the next year cell phones are going to sell without camera and Internet connection? Are you going to tell me that they won't release $100 ARM notebooks next year? This is not a political issue, you know, it's a technological change.
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    At first when I wrote this post I was going to apologize for the offtopic involving the Pirate Party but then I realized that I'm not off-topic.
    This is exactly about the freedom to share information the government declaring you an enemy and that is exactly what Pirate Party is about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    It could still go in many different directions I grant; I find the piracy party in Germany a somewhat inspiring, if not comical uprising of disgust for internet control . All the same, it is more probable that doom and gloom await us (especially in the US) and not our governments.
    I'm interested that what's so funny about it? Maybe the name but it's fairly fresh as the issues we are dealing with. What I do find funny is that piratehunters have declared that an action which is more common among teenagers than skipping school is actually a theft. I find it funny that there are laws that make Hkkmr a criminal if we two would share copyright information here. And we do*. More than we realize. I find it hilarious the same people don't think libraries are killing the literature industry. "Home taping kills the music industry?" That's a classic. I'd definitely download a car. "The creative industry is dying" and at the same time known and unknown artists are freely sharing their art and gaining more wealth and fame as the revenues of artists increase! How does this thing work?! FBI's lack of better stuff to do rarely fails to amuse me. By this time you have either become bitter about the policies that are made or developed a sense of humor.

    Here's Rick Falkvinge, the founder of the first Pirate Party, about the name:
    Branding experts also give the name 10 points out of 10. In brand management, you ideally choose a name that is as unique as possible and as descriptive as possible. You will always have to make a tradeoff between these two. Skype is unique, but not descriptive in the least. Word is descriptive, but not unique in the least. “The Pirate Party” scores bell-dinging top scores in both aspects.
    It’s quite like when the gay movement reclaimed the word gay in the same way. By standing proud about being a pirate, and doing so in public, you take that weapon away from the copyright industry’s lobby. These days, they are even complaining that branding people as pirates doesn’t work anymore.
    Does the name work to get votes? Unquestionably. We were the largest party in the most coveted sub-30 demographic in the European Elections in Sweden, with 25% of the votes from that demographic. We had 38% of the votes among young males. The name is not an obstacle for votes, and we have the election results to prove it.
    As a side note it's also fitting that the pirates of the 17th century were often democratic: The captain was elected to function as a figurehead and there rest of the decision were directly elected. That would mean that the system of the pirates of the 17th century were more democratic than our current representative democracy which many modern pirates try to fix and protect.

    *Did you ask permission for your avatar picture? Have you checked that the song you embedded on that thread was legally downloaded to Youtube?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    This is not a political issue, you know, it's a technological change.
    They obviously don't exclude one another.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 10-03-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    What part of losing battle is not clear? Yes, they can take down a site and get some people into jail, so what? Are you going to tell me that the next year cell phones are going to sell without camera and Internet connection? Are you going to tell me that they won't release $100 ARM notebooks next year? This is not a political issue, you know, it's a technological change.
    Of course the government will not restrict our physical technology, like cell phones, cameras etc.; they will use it against your knowledge, will and ability to alter. For example, many cell phones track and log your physical location 24/7, Google tracks your searches (and google chrome tracks everything), facebook knows who you're friends with/where you've been/any information you have disclosed, etc. It is their policy to sell your information to who ever is buying.

    We will be equipped to discuss on the internet in the future, but without violating some regulatory law regarding the discussion of and exposure to illegal activities (e.g. cannabis)? Likely not. Downloading copyrighted music, for example, or frequenting the soon-to-be banned 'open information' sites (megaupload, pirate bay, etc.). If you open or frequent a site to freely distribute information and the government has regulated the internet, expect to be treated like a criminal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    At first when I wrote this post I was going to apologize for the offtopic involving the Pirate Party but then I realized that I'm not off-topic.
    This is exactly about the freedom to share information the government declaring you an enemy and that is exactly what Pirate Party is about.

    I'm interested that what's so funny about it? Maybe the name but it's fairly fresh as the issues we are dealing with. What I do find funny is that piratehunters have declared that an action which is more common among teenagers than skipping school is actually a theft. I find it funny that there are laws that make Hkkmr a criminal if we two would share copyright information here. And we do*. More than we realize. I find it hilarious the same people don't think libraries are killing the literature industry. "Home taping kills the music industry?" That's a classic. I'd definitely download a car. "The creative industry is dying" and at the same time known and unknown artists are freely sharing their art and gaining more wealth and fame as the revenues of artists increase! How does this thing work?! FBI's lack of better stuff to do rarely fails to amuse me. By this time you have either become bitter about the policies that are made or developed a sense of humor.
    Ha, I only mean that they are comical because they represent an extreme minority opinion in the face of overwhelming opposition, much like a toddler standing up to an adult for committing serious crimes (so, hilarious in a disturbing way). All the same, I hope something comes of it.

    On a side note, the arguments the masses make are not intended to make sense, but to keep them confused and pacified. How can you absorb any capacity to argue or reason about a topic when your opinions and positions are force fed through mass media? I've stopped bothering to look at their positions, because you will never convince someone that their most passionate intellectual activity is brainwash and propaganda.
    Last edited by Atlast; 10-03-2012 at 02:03 AM.

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