Enneagram type 4, arguing and being confrontational

[Ningyo]

Nearly every 4 I've met has been argumentative. This includes my EII 4 sister and 4s I've paid attention to on forums, even when they're not arguing with me. I love the 4s in my life and there are many, but it can get quite exhausting to have these pointless debates with them that sometimes last for hours at a time as they want to talk about them until one of us has to do something else. It generally seems to stem from them nitpicking. How do I put a stop to this without being insulting? It's not that I don't care and don't want them to be able to talk to me, it's just that after/before a long day, three hours spent arguing about something totally meaningless like how to get over a cold or whether animals have feelings is utterly frustrating for me in the end. I notice this definitely seems to happen more with 4w5s than 4w3s, and might have something to do with the 5 wing.

[DirectorAbbie]

4s argue for fun. When you want to stop arguing, follow these simple steps.

1. Raise your hands above your shoulders.
2. Sigh audibly.
3. Drop hands.
4. Avert eyes.

[Ningyo]

4s argue for fun. When you want to stop arguing, follow these simple steps.

1. Raise your hands above your shoulders.
2. Sigh audibly.
3. Drop hands.
4. Avert eyes.

Lmao. Yeah, it does seem like their form of banter at times, but at others it just seems like they want to talk but have nothing to say, so they nitpick instead. It's the only real problem in my relationship with a 4 identical atm. He has trouble letting certain thoughts go and just akjjkdfhaskjdfhskjdfhxsdgf

[DirectorAbbie]

they nitpick

I've known an ILI 4 and an EII 4. Both made me keep rephrasing my sentences. It has made me more careful with my use of words. Ever "nitpick" back at a 4?

[Ningyo]

I've known an ILI 4 and an EII 4. Both made me keep rephrasing my sentences. It has made me more careful with my use of words. Ever "nitpick" back at a 4?

My EII 4w5 sister takes it very poorly when I nitpick back which is essentially why we're not really talking lately. It seems that 2s generally don't nitpick in the same way, though. We're either like, *sarcastic commentary illustrating other person's retardation* or *full on arguing about the topic in an 8ish manner* because we can't be polite anymore. My IEI 4w5 boyfriend seems to actually like when I argue back at him, as does my 8w7 SEE brother, but it always turns onto a much bigger, deeper issue after that, such as my IEI boyfriend realizing and examining why he thinks a certain way about something (like a recent argument we had regarding the fact that he can be quite pushy with showing me stuff). I've literally lost sleep over these talks with him (and other people!) and though I love him and my 4 friends who do this, it feels like they're going about demanding attention in the worst possible way sometimes. If they want to have a more meaningful conversation, rather than getting there by twists and turns, I'd rather they just get down to it from the start.

[willekeurig]

I think I'm 4w5 and I'm also like this

[Gilly]

Two of my closest friends are 4s and they can be argumentative but I don't have this problem with them, so...u doinit rong maybe

[mikemex]

Just raise your hand until you're given voice and then say nothing.

[Creepy-male]

I have had e4 friends before and I've noticed it's not so much arguing but being a victim and kind of negative or shadowy -- I appreciate it because it seems soulful and real, and they generate interesting problems. They are ideal seeking so their is a sense of struggle about them, I much prefer it to people who are simple, happy, dumb fools with little drive to push boundaries and confront the dark/shadow of life. Just my two cents.

[silke]

Nearly every 4 I've met has been argumentative. This includes my EII 4 sister and 4s I've paid attention to on forums, even when they're not arguing with me. I love the 4s in my life and there are many, but it can get quite exhausting to have these pointless debates with them that sometimes last for hours at a time as they want to talk about them until one of us has to do something else. It generally seems to stem from them nitpicking. How do I put a stop to this without being insulting?

the same way you would stop conversations with anyone else - tell them you don't feel like discussing this now, that you need to divert your attention elsewhere, that you're too busy, that it's not important or relevant, etc. they can't pick a debate with you without you willingly following along

I notice this definitely seems to happen more with 4w5s than 4w3s, and might have something to do with the 5 wing.

this article mentioned that 4w5 have double-ego orientation while 4w3s are ego-id oriented, so 4w5s may be more willing to engage you in these exchanges as a way of sharpening of their sense of identity and refining their opinions

[Ningyo]

the same way you would stop conversations with anyone else - tell them you don't feel like discussing this now, that you need to divert your attention elsewhere, that you're too busy, that it's not important or relevant, etc. they can't pick a debate with you without you willingly following along


this article mentioned that 4w5 have double-ego orientation while 4w3s are ego-id oriented, so 4w5s may be more willing to engage you in these exchanges as a way of sharpening of their sense of identity and refining their opinions

Your input is helpful and fascinating as always. Thanks Sin!