Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Enneagram type 4, arguing and being confrontational

  1. #1
    Ningyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    TIM
    IXI sx/so
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Enneagram type 4, arguing and being confrontational

    Nearly every 4 I've met has been argumentative. This includes my EII 4 sister and 4s I've paid attention to on forums, even when they're not arguing with me. I love the 4s in my life and there are many, but it can get quite exhausting to have these pointless debates with them that sometimes last for hours at a time as they want to talk about them until one of us has to do something else. It generally seems to stem from them nitpicking. How do I put a stop to this without being insulting? It's not that I don't care and don't want them to be able to talk to me, it's just that after/before a long day, three hours spent arguing about something totally meaningless like how to get over a cold or whether animals have feelings is utterly frustrating for me in the end. I notice this definitely seems to happen more with 4w5s than 4w3s, and might have something to do with the 5 wing.
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

  2. #2
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,728
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    4s argue for fun. When you want to stop arguing, follow these simple steps.

    1. Raise your hands above your shoulders.
    2. Sigh audibly.
    3. Drop hands.
    4. Avert eyes.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  3. #3
    Ningyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    TIM
    IXI sx/so
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    4s argue for fun. When you want to stop arguing, follow these simple steps.

    1. Raise your hands above your shoulders.
    2. Sigh audibly.
    3. Drop hands.
    4. Avert eyes.
    Lmao. Yeah, it does seem like their form of banter at times, but at others it just seems like they want to talk but have nothing to say, so they nitpick instead. It's the only real problem in my relationship with a 4 identical atm. He has trouble letting certain thoughts go and just akjjkdfhaskjdfhskjdfhxsdgf
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

  4. #4
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,728
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ningyo View Post
    they nitpick
    I've known an ILI 4 and an EII 4. Both made me keep rephrasing my sentences. It has made me more careful with my use of words. Ever "nitpick" back at a 4?

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  5. #5
    Ningyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    TIM
    IXI sx/so
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I've known an ILI 4 and an EII 4. Both made me keep rephrasing my sentences. It has made me more careful with my use of words. Ever "nitpick" back at a 4?
    My EII 4w5 sister takes it very poorly when I nitpick back which is essentially why we're not really talking lately. It seems that 2s generally don't nitpick in the same way, though. We're either like, *sarcastic commentary illustrating other person's retardation* or *full on arguing about the topic in an 8ish manner* because we can't be polite anymore. My IEI 4w5 boyfriend seems to actually like when I argue back at him, as does my 8w7 SEE brother, but it always turns onto a much bigger, deeper issue after that, such as my IEI boyfriend realizing and examining why he thinks a certain way about something (like a recent argument we had regarding the fact that he can be quite pushy with showing me stuff). I've literally lost sleep over these talks with him (and other people!) and though I love him and my 4 friends who do this, it feels like they're going about demanding attention in the worst possible way sometimes. If they want to have a more meaningful conversation, rather than getting there by twists and turns, I'd rather they just get down to it from the start.
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

  6. #6
    . willekeurig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,512
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I'm 4w5 and I'm also like this
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Two of my closest friends are 4s and they can be argumentative but I don't have this problem with them, so...u doinit rong maybe
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  8. #8
    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Third Planet
    TIM
    IEE-Ne
    Posts
    1,631
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just raise your hand until you're given voice and then say nothing.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

  9. #9
    Creepy-male

    Default

    I have had e4 friends before and I've noticed it's not so much arguing but being a victim and kind of negative or shadowy -- I appreciate it because it seems soulful and real, and they generate interesting problems. They are ideal seeking so their is a sense of struggle about them, I much prefer it to people who are simple, happy, dumb fools with little drive to push boundaries and confront the dark/shadow of life. Just my two cents.

  10. #10
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,813
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ningyo View Post
    Nearly every 4 I've met has been argumentative. This includes my EII 4 sister and 4s I've paid attention to on forums, even when they're not arguing with me. I love the 4s in my life and there are many, but it can get quite exhausting to have these pointless debates with them that sometimes last for hours at a time as they want to talk about them until one of us has to do something else. It generally seems to stem from them nitpicking. How do I put a stop to this without being insulting?
    the same way you would stop conversations with anyone else - tell them you don't feel like discussing this now, that you need to divert your attention elsewhere, that you're too busy, that it's not important or relevant, etc. they can't pick a debate with you without you willingly following along

    Quote Originally Posted by Ningyo View Post
    I notice this definitely seems to happen more with 4w5s than 4w3s, and might have something to do with the 5 wing.
    this article mentioned that 4w5 have double-ego orientation while 4w3s are ego-id oriented, so 4w5s may be more willing to engage you in these exchanges as a way of sharpening of their sense of identity and refining their opinions

  11. #11
    Ningyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    TIM
    IXI sx/so
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    the same way you would stop conversations with anyone else - tell them you don't feel like discussing this now, that you need to divert your attention elsewhere, that you're too busy, that it's not important or relevant, etc. they can't pick a debate with you without you willingly following along


    this article mentioned that 4w5 have double-ego orientation while 4w3s are ego-id oriented, so 4w5s may be more willing to engage you in these exchanges as a way of sharpening of their sense of identity and refining their opinions
    Your input is helpful and fascinating as always. Thanks Sin!
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •