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Thread: Appearance first Personality second

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    Default Appearance first Personality second

    Here is an article from the Korean Herald which includes a survery asking single men their preference when it comes to choosing an ideal mate. The survey included men from over 120 difference countries around the world and was conducted over a four year period.


    http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view....20120907000529


    Here we have a rather conclusive statement that men choose a woman for her looks first and her personality second. Since socionics is a personality psychology, therefore it is secondary in importance to appearances when men choose an ideal mate. Gulenko makes a statement supporting this claim: "there must be a minimal mutual attraction".

    The implications are that women who are educated in socionics should take this into consideration. A single man will be primarily focused on appearance and personality second, even if they happen to be duals. Meaning socionics is a circumstantial phenomena. It occurs only on the basis of a precondition, that is 'mutual attraction'. Personally speaking, we have to consider that men have different tastes when it comes to physical attraction. Which means the same woman can be a perfect 10 to one man but a measly 5 to another man simply due to personal tastes, i.e. some men prefer brunettes to blondes, etc.

    Likewise, the implications for men who are educated in socioincs should also take this into consideration. Without pretense, I'm sure many people have witnessed men who fall for beautiful women only to end up in troublesome relationships. Their first instinctual appetite has been met in that they are with an attractive woman but between the both of them their personalities do not mesh well.

    I can conclude two consequences to be avoided: Never choose someone based on appearance alone. Never choose someone based on personality alone. A man should have enough good sense to realize that when he likes the women's body without liking her personality, he is making an error. A woman should realize that her physical attributes matter more to men than her personality, therefore she must be flexible enough to appeal to male sensibilities without sacrificing her personality. Far too many women expect men to like them for their personalities alone without considering their physical attributes, they too are making an error.

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    I guess the greater question is whether appearance preferences are totally uncorrelated with sociotype or whether there is some correlative aspect betwixt the two. Although I think it is a safe general rule that mutual physical attraction is a prereq for viewing someone as a romantic interest in the long term. I say this because guys will bang just about anything in the short term, given appropriate circumstances.
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    1. does it just predict what men will choose or also how likely the relationship is to "work" afterwards.

    2. socionics claims personality affects appearance, so when men choose partners based on appearance there could in part be an implicit selection of personality features. i recently posted a thread with links to several empirical studies that support the claim that personality traits can be "read" from a person's appearance.

    3. judging from introspection alone i'd estimate my sense of aesthetics in women is strongly affected by personality compatibility.

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    Hm I'm wondering if the men were to choose only one option or they had to put it in some order? It doesn't also suggest that they take into account appearance only.
    From the genetical point of view no 1 appearance makes some sense - tastes are instinctual and if the instict works well they may choose the best mother for their children.

    “The survey appears to reflect the fast spread of mass culture for commercial purposes that has caused an appearance-oriented trend across the globe,” said Sunwoo chief Lee Woong-jin. (Yonhap News) -

    I don't agree with that. Has it been anything different in the past? was it better when they used to choose their wives based on what their parents asked them to? Or by the material status?

    I think choosing someone by appearance and personality is the closest to what is called love so...

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    Also, what they call appearance reflects some other traits in people. E.g. some men don't like women who wear some kinds of clothes e.g. disco types, or they wear too much/to little make up etc so it's much more complex.

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    "According to the survey by South Korea’s matchmaking company Sunwoo of its 41,036 single male clients from 121 countries, 31.1 percent said appearance is the primary attribute for their ideal spouse, followed by personality with 28.5 percent, occupation or ability with 21.7 percent and family background with 18.7 percent."

    In my opinion, you are misinterpreting the article. Not even a majority of men said looks are most important; just 3 out of 10. Every person has their own preferences, you cannot draw a statement about ALL men out of this statistic.
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    I came to say the same thing everybody else have already said. I think that looks and personality are most definitely connected; Se types/valuers dress differently from Si types/valuers, temperament has a huge effect on a person's general appearance, ST:s tend to appear more manly than NF:s, I could imagine Fe DS people to appreciate smiling more than someone whose dual type is Fe polr etc..

    Also if you like someone's personality you usually begin to like and appreciate their looks/style, too.
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    I can't really discern all the aspects personality from all the aspects apperance nor vica versa. These two are also very entwined as often implied above.
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    Why is this news? I've always only liked someone based on their appearance and then their personality. I think everyone does this.

    Lab, that avatar is friggin great btw.

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    Lolz @ the fact that people are discussing an article from the "Korean Harald" about a poll conducted by a dating website as though it has any merit.
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    I find that physical and personality attractiveness go hand in hand. The people I'm most attracted to physically are generally people whose personalities I'm most compatible with. Whether the former is affected by the latter/vice versa, or if there is some actual phenomena linking the two traits together I couldn't say, but it's worked for me so far. Probably explains why I find so few people really physically attractive enough to want to date though.
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    Korea is also one of the more status conscious and appearance conscious societies. It's highly status and appearance driven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I guess the greater question is whether appearance preferences are totally uncorrelated with sociotype or whether there is some correlative aspect betwixt the two. Although I think it is a safe general rule that mutual physical attraction is a prereq for viewing someone as a romantic interest in the long term. I say this because guys will bang just about anything in the short term, given appropriate circumstances.
    Good question. I actually think they are. I've always known what kind of woman I've wanted. I've always known what she LOOKED like... her demeanor, her choice in clothing, etc.

    I think lust, however, is another thing to consider. There are women who I view as "beautiful" that I really want to date, while there are women I have very little respect for who I lust after like crazy. Its hard to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Lolz @ the fact that people are discussing an article from the "Korean Harald" about a poll conducted by a dating website as though it has any merit.
    It raises a few good questions though, regardless of its merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    Also if you like someone's personality you usually begin to like and appreciate their looks/style, too.
    One of my absolute favorite girlfriends I almost rejected initially because her looks seemed a little off. She was pretty, but it wasn't an aesthetic I was used to... a different kind of pretty than what I was looking for. After I hung out with her for a little bit I realized I couldn't get enough of her!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    It raises a few good questions though, regardless of its merit.
    Nice dual interaction^ Supplementing for something she didn't consider. Nice.

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    Personality first; appearance can be changed; one brings someone else closer to their ideal.

    My duals dress in toned down colors and nothing loud; SLE in contrast like showy colors like bright reds, greens, magentas etc. I like the understated, shows that the person wants to be included in a group, to contribute, to be a part of not to stick out and "to lead". Love those greys they wear, those stipes; I also like the pinks I wear and the lilacs.


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    Hey All thanks for the replies. The Korean Herald is a major news source here in South Korea. Like any news source there is likely a political agenda but I doubt there is reason to question creditials. It's a national news source, so take that into consideration when comparing it to a random internet source or an opinion piece. For the time that I've lived here, I haven't heard of the Korean Herald reporting false information, so I trust them. They are reporting the results of a survey administered by an online dating website; I hardly consider the tone or intention of the survery to represent a scientific standard but rather an interesting sociological issue concerning marriage, specifically how men choose their wives.

    How a culture perceives beauty is a sociological issue, which in turn affects the individuals psychological view in what he considers to be beauty. Taking Korean culture as an example, many women here in Korea get plastic surgery for their eyes and noses; even foreigners travel to Korea to get plastic surgery because it is much cheaper than other parts of the world. Korean women try to remain fare skinned, because they consider tan skin to be associated with the lower class workers who labour in a field under the sun. The appeal for light skin is in complete contrast to western notions of beauty, which has a fixation on tan skin as more desirable. Nearly all the actors, male and female, have gotten some 'work done' on every korean drama. Nearly all the news anchors on television have gotten some 'work done'.

    Another interesting fact about korean culture is that a woman above the age of 30 is no longer considered worth marrying, so there is far more pressure on women to find a husband early in their lives before they are too old. Not all women adhere to this but many do. So there is greater pressure on women to be attractive, so they can find a husband and avoid shame.

    As a personal opinion, I have noticed korean men have higher standards than foreign men. The same is true for korean women when evaluating themselves. A girl who is not slender is considered fat. There have been many instances of shock to learn that a highly attractive woman sees herself as ugly or unattractive. Moreso, I'm even more shocked to hear korean man say that girl is alright when she is a knockout to most foriegn men.

    "3 out of 10 men place appearance first and personality second", the way I would interpret that is 3 out of 10 men all agree that appearance is more important than personality, and 7 out of 10 men can not all agree to the same values, they have too many discrepancies amongst them so no conclusion can be made.

    So once again, this is a sociological issue concerning marriage within Korea and abroad, inwhich men base their marriage selection on appearance first and personality second. For some of us here there is no differientiation between appearance and personality. So perhaps a better description of appearance is needed? Would you consider marrying a woman even if you did not really know her but just liked her apperance?
    Again thanks for the replies.

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    Well your society sounds a bit sucky man
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    Personality affects everything about appearance. Socionics governs every single aspect of reality.

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    Ya korean society has alot of foreigners and koreans bent out of shape. Trust me this is not a heavy issue here in korea. To be frank, suicide, pediphilia, competititive education system, low birth rate, abortion, animal rights, racism, patriartical rule, prostituition, alcoholism, divorce, sexism, workers rights, tuition, international territorial disputes are the heavy issues. Those are the issues that are reported in the korean herald on a weekly or montly basis. Reading the korean herald has become depressing and dispairing like most news sources.

    Nature versus nuture can alter the personality of a person. Simply what we regard as beauty is not innate, but cultured based on our social background. That is my argument. Challenge it! In other words duality is circumstantial, not absolute, because we must have minimal mutual attraction which implies a physical attraction which is culturally based. We can easily find ourselves psychologically compatible even when we are nationally or politically opposed. For example, Koreans generally dislike Japanese, with emphasis on generally, because that has to do with a long standing historical conflict between the two nations. Japan occupied Korea from 1905 unitl 1945, however, during that time Japan had committed many atrocities toward Koreans which has been included into the Korean educational system, therefore, a majority of Koreans are educated of their own history which surmounts to a massive conflict with the Japanese. Likewise, the Japanese have a factually conflicting side of the story. The Japanese do not see themselves as evil, rather, they occupied korea and then left.

    To this day, Korea and Japan do not get along on many issues. I hardly consider socionics would have any influence in this matter whatsoever, unless subtley and personally.

    As a matter of fact, I have spoken with a Korean who has explicity denied his own son the right to marry a Japanese girl because she is Japanese. That has nothing pertaining to socionics unless abstractly. I do not consider socionics a physics of the universe, which "governs every single aspect of reality", even socionics often state that they can not account for all factors. Therefore socionics is limited so do not make such grand statements unless you can support them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Nice dual interaction^ Supplementing for something she didn't consider. Nice.
    Actually my reaction was: what a dipshit. I was just too polite to say it.

    Thank you, Maritsa for helping me open up. Maybe we're dualz.

    I will continue scoffing at this unscientific drivel from distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well your society sounds a bit sucky man
    Sucky, sucky. Five dolla.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    Ya korean society has alot of foreigners and koreans bent out of shape. Trust me this is not a heavy issue here in korea. To be frank, suicide, pediphilia, competititive education system, low birth rate, abortion, animal rights, racism, patriartical rule, prostituition, alcoholism, divorce, sexism, workers rights, tuition, international territorial disputes are the heavy issues. Those are the issues that are reported in the korean herald on a weekly or montly basis. Reading the korean herald has become depressing and dispairing like most news sources.

    Nature versus nuture can alter the personality of a person. Simply what we regard as beauty is not innate, but cultured based on our social background. That is my argument. Challenge it! In other words duality is circumstantial, not absolute, because we must have minimal mutual attraction which implies a physical attraction which is culturally based. We can easily find ourselves psychologically compatible even when we are nationally or politically opposed. For example, Koreans generally dislike Japanese, with emphasis on generally, because that has to do with a long standing historical conflict between the two nations. Japan occupied Korea from 1905 unitl 1945, however, during that time Japan had committed many atrocities toward Koreans which has been included into the Korean educational system, therefore, a majority of Koreans are educated of their own history which surmounts to a massive conflict with the Japanese. Likewise, the Japanese have a factually conflicting side of the story. The Japanese do not see themselves as evil, rather, they occupied korea and then left.

    To this day, Korea and Japan do not get along on many issues. I hardly consider socionics would have any influence in this matter whatsoever, unless subtley and personally.

    As a matter of fact, I have spoken with a Korean who has explicity denied his own son the right to marry a Japanese girl because she is Japanese. That has nothing pertaining to socionics unless abstractly. I do not consider socionics a physics of the universe, which "governs every single aspect of reality", even socionics often state that they can not account for all factors. Therefore socionics is limited so do not make such grand statements unless you can support them.
    Appearance might be the #1 reason why people get together, but the #1 reason why people break apart is bad communication.

    Socionics can help explain more so why two people of totally different backgrounds might fall in passionately in love and join together despite all opposition and why two people of very similar backgrounds, similar beliefs, and every reason to be together might come apart.

    In the same you say appearance makes socionics secondary, there are many other things that can make appearance secondary, like age, terminal illness, being married already, etc.

    I find a lot of korean women quite pretty, but they're so manicured it makes them look unattractive and lack distinctiveness. This is why the best models are a bit weird looking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoon_Eun-hye

    Yoon Eun Hye is like the biggest Korean star(commercial impact wise) of the 2000's althrough and I think her bunny teeth are part of the reason as well as her cute personality.

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    Hey that's a solid point. Communication is key and that especially becomes a factor when you realize that even when you like the apperance of a girl but can not communicate effectively with her because she does not speak perfect english and I do not speak perfect korean well then the future of your relationship is sealed shut - that is a long standing difficulty for interracial couples here in Korea. Can you demonstrate the connection between socionics and communication further? I would not say I'm denying what you say is true but I do not see any compelling reason to believe it either. I'm interested to hear more but so far I'm not totally convinced. I have seen more examples demonstrating cultural obsticles and social bias that determine the nature of the relationship regardless of socionics. Even my time here in Korea I have delt with racism from women who I would consider to be my dual under the socionics narrative. Racism is judging someone based on appearance.

    Here is a different article from livescience.com. Researchers suggest that actions speak louder than words when it comes to dating. Many people will say looks do not matter but the opposite is true when it actually comes down to it. They can specificy their preferences and find a suitable match but at the end of the day people want a sexually appealing partner for both men and women.

    http://www.livescience.com/17798-wom...-partners.html

    That seems to support the argument that appearance comes first and personality second. Socionics sets the ground for a better relationship to grow but appearance is what drew two people together in the first place. What is your opinion of this article in relation to socioncs?

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    I think the top three for me are:
    Is he a Christian?
    Is he my dual?
    Could I stand to look at him every day for the rest of my life?

    Of course, I'm not a guy.

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    OP, duality =\= attraction. Revert and revise.

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