Older ESTj-LSE women and sex

[willekeurig]

Do you people not read what I write?

No

[Beautiful sky]

No

Obviously! psht Well stop reading it then!

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I think it is less a matter of reading and more a matter of taking it seriously. Personally, anyway. Things aren't as cut and dried as you seem to prefer, Maritsa. Other stuff does prevent socionics from working the way it looks on paper/your computer screen.

[golden]

This is interesting, and it brings up the depressing possibility of my stepfather being my dual after all. There is very much a love/control dynamic going with him ("I must put you on the right path no matter what because I want you to have what's best for you") that drives everyone else nuts. It may be completely off, but I've wondered sometimes if he's overcompensating for his own childhood (his father used to be a well-to-do but abusive drunk), like he's ridiculously determined that he's not going to turn out screwed up kids. He also happens to be a textbook ESTJ.

Have you read or heard of the book For Your Own Good by Alice Miller?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Do you guys remember that study done on relationship type and marriage happiness? It was for mbti, but i still thought it was rather interesting. It said the most compatible pairings were sj-sj, nfp-sfj, and nf-nf. So imo Logical types in general have problems in maintaining marriage happiness. I think partially it is about gender expectations (Ts being predominantly male) but also, often they seem to lack the requisite social skills/an ability to laugh at themselves and not take themselves too seriously so when conflict arises they get all butthurt and lash out. I think estjs of any stripe are particularly prone to this and perhaps because it is generally expected of the woman to be the forgiving one/one seeking reconciliation estj females may have more problems with this than average. Not saying LSE = estj, but maybe it adds another element to the discussion.

The MBTI archetypes are self-reporting, so this would make sense in terms of how people authentically view themselves.

[zomgqwantz]

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here. I don't think anyone says to themselves, "Hey, I want to get into a shitty relationship with someone!" However, some people do have a pattern of getting into unhealthy relationships because they don't know any better or don't feel they deserve better. It's not necessarily socionic in nature, and there's no guarantee that their dual will kick them out of that habit (or that the one who does finally get them to seek better will be their dual).

In this theory, securely attached adults tend to have positive views of themselves, their partners and their relationships. They feel comfortable with intimacy and independence, balancing the two. Anxious-preoccupied adults seek high levels of intimacy, approval and responsiveness from partners, becoming overly dependent. They tend to be less trusting, have less positive views about themselves and their partners, and may exhibit high levels of emotional expressiveness, worry and impulsiveness in their relationships. Dismissive-avoidant adults desire a high level of independence, often appearing to avoid attachment altogether. They view themselves as self-sufficient, invulnerable to attachment feelings and not needing close relationships. They tend to suppress their feelings, dealing with rejection by distancing themselves from partners of whom they often have a poor opinion. Fearful-avoidant adults have mixed feelings about close relationships, both desiring and feeling uncomfortable with emotional closeness. They tend to mistrust their partners and view themselves as unworthy. Like dismissive-avoidant adults, fearful-avoidant adults tend to seek less intimacy, suppressing their feelings.

1 character

[Beautiful sky]

identical relationships are not helpful; they are boring and one sided; it's like competition at it's best. You both are walking and thinking about the same side of the road; the other side is left undiscovered.

ISTj and ESTj have different values, energies, and behaviors; they would not get along well. ST with ST is like a recipe for disaster. ISTp and ESTj are attracted to one another because they kinda think a like and have the same things they laugh about and have fun with, but one needs something and the other can't provide it; they end up emphasizing on work work work, and nothing about giving each other, or the other emotional support one needs. Translated, they have differing DS; ISTp in their lazy way, order ESTj to do things and they don't contribute to the emotional needs of ESTj.

[Beautiful sky]

so in istp - enfp couple then istp orders enfp to do things? sounds a bit strange tbh...maybe seems that way to you coz you expect estj to do things for you and are yourself looking to order someone around

back on topic: ime estjs i've known / know who have this issue talked about are kinda addicted to sex lol - well, i only know 2 (maybe 3 if you push it) who are described by OP (but all kinda single tho - as in, not married).

Yes, istp like to be in control and they give their extraverted dual a lot of tasks LOL

[Creepy-pokeball]

Idk, do you really need practical skills to love and be loved?

Ask that again

[mikemex]

@Maritsa:

I'm starting to believe that you have no clue about how actual relationships work, you're just deriving your conclusions from theory but it looks cartoon-like.

In reality, I don't really picture IEEs taking orders from anyone, much less an SLI. I can see how an LSE would like to direct others but SLI have the opposite temperament; they have no energy to direct anyone or anything.

What is true is that SLIs are quietly forceful, they don't give in as easily, so in the end the pair ends up doing what the SLI wants most of the time. This is not abusive in any way and it doesn't mean that the SLI controls the IEE either. What it truly means is that SLI is something like a brake to the ever expanding universe of the IEE, which eventually results in disaster from spreading too thin.

The SLI just filters what's in essence desires of the IEE. Never forget that SLI is caregiver and IEE is infantile.

[Absurd]

Do you people not read what I write?

Humanist like no other finds approach to his dual.

I always read you Maritsa. Seriously, I wouldn't pass on something like that.

[mikemex]

Yeah, it was for another post.

[Beautiful sky]

@Maritsa:

I'm starting to believe that you have no clue about how actual relationships work, you're just deriving your conclusions from theory but it looks cartoon-like.

In reality, I don't really picture IEEs taking orders from anyone, much less an SLI. I can see how an LSE would like to direct others but SLI have the opposite temperament; they have no energy to direct anyone or anything.

What is true is that SLIs are quietly forceful, they don't give in as easily, so in the end the pair ends up doing what the SLI wants most of the time. This is not abusive in any way and it doesn't mean that the SLI controls the IEE either. What it truly means is that SLI is something like a brake to the ever expanding universe of the IEE, which eventually results in disaster from spreading too thin.

The SLI just filters what's in essence desires of the IEE. Never forget that SLI is caregiver and IEE is infantile.

I was in a rel with an SLI for 7 years; he fussed but never said directly what he wanted done and he was such a pain in the butt because he required "reading in between the lines" all the time and yes, because of his fussy moodiness and me wanted a calm atmosphere, we did do what he wanted to. My father and nephew are SLI and plus half of my uncles and aunts I know how they can be like.

[Ver]

I was in a rel with an SLI for 7 years; he fussed but never said directly what he wanted done and he was such a pain in the butt because he required "reading in between the lines" all the time and yes, because of his fussy moodiness and me wanted a calm atmosphere, we did do what he wanted to. My brother, father and nephew are SLI and plus half of my uncles and aunts I know how they can be like.

Hm, I could say I agree a bit. To me ISTp are calm much calmer than my INTp father but I also find them a bit too moody. I like stability in a partner, I'm too much affected by other's people mood to feel good in an unstable environment. My INTp father is like crazy Fe polr person, he sits ueitly in his room but vhen he's angry it's like really, really scary and this kind of behaviour affected me a lot. I didn't have much to deal vith ISTps but one ISTp that I knov, although very healthy, has a similar sense of moodiness in him. I'm just a 6 I need a rock that I could lean on.

However, I think it depends on a person. My ISTp girl friend has never struck me as moody and we shared one room for a year... so it all depends.

[Galen]

Do you people not read what I write?

NO MARITSA

[mikemex]

Well, I avoid LSE women like plague. They are total flirts but they are so picky it never goes far.

[DirectorAbbie]

Well, I avoid LSE women like plague. They are total flirts but they are so picky it never goes far.

Either he avoids them like plague avoids them, or he avoids them like he avoids plague. I'm going with the first one because it comes with a funnier mental image.

[noid]

I guess it depend of the temperament, my girlfriend was more masculine some year ago, but with time she have develloped more delta IJ trait speaking in socionic term

But they do. You think someone who can't cook, clean, take care of kids, handle finances, or hold down a job would be able to handle a relationship?

yes and that's exactly our current situation. But life is more malleable than you think.

[Taknamay]

Do you people not read what I write?

I try my best, but sometimes it confuses me.

[mikemex]

I guess it depend of the temperament, my girlfriend was more masculine some year ago, but with time she have develloped more delta IJ trait speaking in socionic term

It's called dualization, you become more balanced. It may not come naturally to you but if you're constantly exposed to it, you get used to think that way. Kind of reminding how the other person would act in your situation.

[Rebelondeck]

Hormones and testosterone determine sexual drive, which is independent of type. ESTjs are usually quite direct and to the point about what they want; concerning sexual drive, the only thing that separates them from other types is billboard advertisements.

a.k.a. I/O

[noaydi]

It can arrange me, I'm in love with my older ESTJ psychologist female

[Chthonic Daydream]

Need to find myself one as well.
I mean-

[Sol]

Hormones and testosterone determine sexual drive, which is independent of type.

The type affects how those "hormones and testosterone" are felt good in your consciousness. How openly, assertive and m... alluringly you'll show your sexual wishes. S types are better with it, while N types may need some external initiative to enter in the needed state of mind and behavior.
Also if you think about sex more often (more common for S types) you should to have higher level of the hormones.

> ESTjs are usually quite direct and to the point about what they want

it's expected from S-E types. but ESTJ are not vulgar or rude as we don't want to scary someones like cute EII

[perpetuus]

You know, now that I think about it, there's a fair number of older ladies (meaning my age or older than me) who've flirted with me or I've caught eyeing me like a piece of crispy bacon in my work experience. I think some of them are probably LSEs. I don't know if this is really a type related thing though. There was one colleague I used to deal with who was quite direct in her flirting, calling me cutie and remarking on my "sweet face." Very touchy, always touching my arm, and I don't really like people in my personal space that much. She seemed extremely DTF. I tend to be oblivious to this sort of thing in the moment, not usually realizing until later reflection. However, she was pretty obvious about it.

[Shytan]

My boyfriend's ESTj mom goes out with younger men all the time and even jokes to him about them being really demanding financially lol. She's in a relationship with her second baby daddy though, who's older than her and lives in another town. He doesn't know about her escapades with younger men though.

[Chae]

My boyfriend's ESTj mom goes out with younger men all the time and even jokes to him about them being really demanding financially lol. She's in a relationship with her second baby daddy though, who's older than her and lives in another town. He doesn't know about her escapades with younger men though.

That's next level sugar mommy deception I can't even

[Lord Pixel]

Boss at work is an ESTj woman, very assertive woman bossing around a bunch of grown men who believe she has an invisible penis inbetween her legs. I made one risky joke to her, now when she sees me it's like an involuntary smile just appears on her face, like she wants to devour me lol.

[whodat]

but ESTJ are not vulgar or rude

My duals can't keep their hands off me.

[Shytan]

That's next level sugar mommy deception I can't even

Riight?

[Chae]

Riight?

What I found striking - she tells your boyfriend but isn't candid with the dad, come hell or high water. Priorities set straight: not detected. suggestive going hard Do you know her instinct stacking? I bet you find some explanations there.

[Shytan]

What I found striking - she tells your boyfriend but isn't candid with the dad, come hell or high water. Priorities set straight: not detected. suggestive going hard Do you know her instinct stacking? I bet you find some explanations there.

Well she doesn't like me much,so I haven't spent enough time with her to know what her enneatype is. However, I know she's a workaholic and really bossy,but then again aren't most LSE? The dad (not my boyfriend's dad,his younger brother's dad) has another family too,so I don't know whether the situation is cheating or separation or polygamy. I don't know. Shit's fucked up. All i know is the only family she really considers hers and is really protective of are her children. The rest are "replaceable".

[ooo]

O_o lol wtf

[ooo]

(this reminds me of what goes on in astrology where you'll often read that the infidel signs are among fire and air for the most part, yet i've experienced that it was watery and earthy signs to be the ones more prone to cheat. it makes sense for earth= sensual, water=emotions, yet the common perception is fire=mofos (it's actually intuition) and air=flee from commitment (it's actually logical functions), oh well! just generalizations! uno)