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Thread: Older ESTj women and sex

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Default Older ESTj women and sex

    Is it me or nearly all unmarried LSE ladies past some age (say, 35) become cougars?

    I've come across an obscene number of older ladies hitting on me lately and I'm not imaginating stuff because I've actually sat down to talk to a few of them and they are very straight forward about their intentions.

    But when I hear the ladies spill the beans (I'm surprised how open they can be) I tend to notice some level of dysfunctionality about them. One confessed me that she's into younger men in exclusion of everyone else. I also noticed that they engage in relationships too easily and just as easily they dump their partners. It makes me to believe that they are really masculine (say, objective and cold) in their way of approaching the opposite sex; this is, they are just interested in the physical aspect of sex and interest vanishes over time as they lack genuine interest in the person. Or it could be that they are perfectionists and thus perpetually dissappointed. Or both. But it seems that they are cursed to be alone.

    I didn't know LSEs were that complicated. I feel shame because I do feel that loneliness vibe coming from them. No intention to enter the game, though. The idea that a woman has slept with countless men can make me sick (pun intended).
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    Clearance level: 10 (9 is maximum) Fermi's Avatar
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    "The idea that a woman has slept with countless men can make me sick (pun intended). "

    hmm.. pun somewhere... Did you just say pun intended just to confuse people?

    btw, don't most unmarried ladies past 35 who is "fit" become cougars?
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Well, I wasn't talking about cougars in general but now that you mention it, no, I don't think so. I believe LSEs are overrepresented in that role.

    There are types that I can't simply picture as cougars: EII, ILI...
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    maybe introverts will just cheat on their spouses out of repression instead of becoming cougars.have you even considered this?where's ne base?gimme na base.you are letting us all down.
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Is it me or nearly all unmarried LSE ladies past some age (say, 35) become cougars?

    I've come across an obscene number of older ladies hitting on me lately and I'm not imaginating stuff because I've actually sat down to talk to a few of them and they are very straight forward about their intentions.

    But when I hear the ladies spill the beans (I'm surprised how open they can be) I tend to notice some level of dysfunctionality about them. One confessed me that she's into younger men in exclusion of everyone else. I also noticed that they engage in relationships too easily and just as easily they dump their partners. It makes me to believe that they are really masculine (say, objective and cold) in their way of approaching the opposite sex; this is, they are just interested in the physical aspect of sex and interest vanishes over time as they lack genuine interest in the person. Or it could be that they are perfectionists and thus perpetually dissappointed. Or both. But it seems that they are cursed to be alone.

    I didn't know LSEs were that complicated. I feel shame because I do feel that loneliness vibe coming from them. No intention to enter the game, though. The idea that a woman has slept with countless men can make me sick (pun intended).
    This is a major problem among a lot of LSE who get into neurosis. Their particular neurosis is compulsive relationships; they also are greatly out of luck because they won't be able to find a dual and they feel the incompatibility in the relationships they choose.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-06-2012 at 05:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by felafel View Post
    @Maritsa: I see what you're saying, but i think it's more that they don't assess people very well. .
    So what if they don't; that doesn't mean they have to leave them.

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    I have noticed a lot of eie, see, and iee personally. However, perhaps it is because lse women seem rarer in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zomgqwantz View Post
    I have noticed a lot of eie, see, and iee personally. However, perhaps it is because lse women seem rarer in general.
    I saw two the other day shopping for shoes and hand bags; both had a bob haircut, both wore slacks and both had a striped white and grey top. LOL and both were eyeing me pick out shoes and one really liked two that I did; she asked me if she could try them on. This is the third time that I find that female LSE look at me, smile at me and gently approach me. I guess they like me somehow; but, I don't know why or what vibes I give off.

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    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships, which ends up looking and feeling like control. Like love equals control. When a relationship fails they will turn back to work. They appear to resolve to make the next relationship work ... Force it, control it. Not to be gotten the better of again. And it is something of a downward trend. They become less able over time to relate openly and equally, and some seem lonely, some commit to someone but it appears a brittle relationship. Surely there are some happy ones, with a fitting functional partner,, but I do not know any at present. I know one who appears to be dating an INFj who is probably great, but I know he works about 70 hours a week, maybe more, so I suspect he will lose her.

    Anyhow, a mature woman (or man) can indulge the illusion of control by dating younger. Also by deciding in advance it is sex only, negating the possibility of vulnerability and hurt. Also by focusing on someone a bit damaged and thus malleable ... I have seen LSEs do those things, though they are hardly the only ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships, which ends up looking and feeling like control. Like love equals control. When a relationship fails they will turn back to work. They appear to resolve to make the next relationship work ... Force it, control it. Not to be gotten the better of again. And it is something of a downward trend. They become less able over time to relate openly and equally, and some seem lonely, some commit to someone but it appears a brittle relationship. Surely there are some happy ones, with a fitting functional partner,, but I do not know any at present. I know one who appears to be dating an INFj who is probably great, but I know he works about 70 hours a week, maybe more, so I suspect he will lose her.

    Anyhow, a mature woman (or man) can indulge the illusion of control by dating younger. Also by deciding in advance it is sex only, negating the possibility of vulnerability and hurt. Also by focusing on someone a bit damaged and thus malleable ... I have seen LSEs do those things, though they are hardly the only ones.
    LSE are authoritarian with people they love. It's odd but that's how it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships, which ends up looking and feeling like control. Like love equals control. When a relationship fails they will turn back to work. They appear to resolve to make the next relationship work ... Force it, control it. Not to be gotten the better of again. And it is something of a downward trend. They become less able over time to relate openly and equally, and some seem lonely, some commit to someone but it appears a brittle relationship. Surely there are some happy ones, with a fitting functional partner,, but I do not know any at present. I know one who appears to be dating an INFj who is probably great, but I know he works about 70 hours a week, maybe more, so I suspect he will lose her.

    Anyhow, a mature woman (or man) can indulge the illusion of control by dating younger. Also by deciding in advance it is sex only, negating the possibility of vulnerability and hurt. Also by focusing on someone a bit damaged and thus malleable ... I have seen LSEs do those things, though they are hardly the only ones.
    Get to work, woman

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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships
    But they do. You think someone who can't cook, clean, take care of kids, handle finances, or hold down a job would be able to handle a relationship?

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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Idk, do you really need practical skills to love and be loved?
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Idk, do you really need practical skills to love and be loved?
    You like candy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jennifer View Post
    maybe introverts will just cheat on their spouses out of repression instead of becoming cougars.have you even considered this?where's ne base?gimme na base.you are letting us all down.
    Not considering options is not related to having Ne base; Ne base is looking at external objects, like a brick and not seeing the sensory details, color, shape size, texture, but seeing the purposes of the brick, or the potential qualities of humans other than their physical looks; he's looking at the LSE and going WTH why does this pattern exist? That is Ne. He did this because he didn't look at the women each as an individual and what they wore but skipped past that and looked at what they were doing and after noticing the trends, he saw the potential of these trends. It's like common things group together and once enough of this is clearly perceptible to an Ne type, the common becomes boring and they seek the new and unusual. I gave you ne base now please leave him along. Ne is not searching for other options as all people can do this just as well; for example, ask anyone to find you a computer and anyone can go search for listings. ne is alternative perception.

    There's nothing worse than having people who don't know what they are talking about interject a thread with ridiculous comments. Here's the pattern and Ne:

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Well, I wasn't talking about cougars in general but now that you mention it, no, I don't think so. I believe LSEs are overrepresented in that role.

    There are types that I can't simply picture as cougars: EII, ILI...
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-07-2012 at 01:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Get to work, woman
    Yeah, this thread needed to be "lightened" up a bit; it's kinda on the depressive moody/serious side.

    No comment about the mad man with a whip.< I had to mention and the thing looks brutal. I hope that was intentional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Well, I wasn't talking about cougars in general but now that you mention it, no, I don't think so. I believe LSEs are overrepresented in that role.

    There are types that I can't simply picture as cougars: EII, ILI...
    I have issues no not a good word. I have just this vision of how wrong it is to date someone younger than myself and this vision entails an ideal; this ideal is that "hey, I've been 20s and I know what kind of emotional needs I had when I was there; I don't want someone to feel uncomfortable with me because I have needs that are different now. I would be like a mother to this person and I want more to be a companion, and i may resent them for not having certain mature qualities that I'm ready for or am looking for. I also don't want to be resentful of them for not meeting my needs and have to watch their actions constantly out of embarrassment or trying to teach them things."

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    Does my favorite dual description say anything that may be helpful to this?

    DYAD: CONTROLLING (LSE) - HUMANIST (EII)

    CONTROLLING

    Outwardly severe and businesslike, this sociotype contains in itself a tendency towards two quite different types of love: Pragma and Eros: fire and ice, realistic calculations and passionate affection makes him an internally contradicted person. He prefers to be ruled by reason and does not follow his feelings. Businesslike interests usually prevails over feelings and even over the pleasure from the contact with a loved person. However, periodically it arranges for its sensations a real celebration.

    This is a caring and reliable partner. He does all that is possible for the one he loves. His partner might feel a lack of compliments and verbal expression of feelings, but Controlling proves his love in practice, taking on himself most of the concerns and is fully satisfied if his partner is involved in the common matters and is accomplishing the tasks which require only attention and patience.

    He needs a partner - assistant which won't force his own will, methods or will dictate his own terms. Controlling might appear totally dry, controlling and demanding person if he wouldn't be to a degree softened by the presence of sensual love - Eros. Inclination towards this form of emotional behavior sometimes makes him romantic and generous in relation to the object of his feelings.

    He is capable to be faithful to his partner if the partner satisfies him sexually or if he values such partner in life for practical reasons. His feelings can burn long and vividly, although healthy pragmatism is not alien to him. In the absence of reciprocity he is capable of being guided by the feeling of duty, able to resist a new interest (in a person). He obeys to Pragma his erotic feelings also although he can recall his past lover for a long time.

    HUMANIST

    Combination of diplomatic Storge and inventive Filia makes him an ideal life partner for Controlling who is quite a difficult partner. On one hand Humanist allows him to be the head of the family but on the other hand he demands from a partner mutual understanding and respect to his interests. He specifically checks that he would not have differences with Controlling in worldview, personal behavior in regards to others, in upbringing of children, on future plans and everyday matters.

    In union with Storge - faithful family love, such manifestations of love of Filia hardens even more the union with quick tempered, proud and authoritarian Controlling partner. Humanist like no other finds approach to his dual. He can hold himself in control and do not say something unnecessary.

    Humanist presents his claims in such a form that his partner becomes embarrassed by his unethical behavior and sharp statements. Talks about relationships in this case ends up not with a quarrel but with a reconciliation or with a promise to reexamine his behavior.

    Humanist has an inherent patience and tact, caution and diplomacy but he is natural with those who he loves and prefers to speak the truth or to keep silent. His love Storge seeks happy harmonious family life, full of kindness and mutual concessions. But not onesided! Humanist - not a Victim sociotype. Even if he allows to be guided in practical matters due to his weak ability to deal with difficulties or absence of forceful qualities and confidence in itself, this does not mean he will allow his partner to cross the line dividing a caring friend from a heartless dictator.

    Humanist uses up a lot of mental forces on re-education of his partner and in time makes him closer to his ideal. If the partner does not go for compromises, does not listen to his counsel he can break this union. Controlling is set to the creation of durable family: upon sensing such a threat he can do everything in order to fix the relationship.

    The spiritual side of love for the Humanist means much more than the erotic one, furthermore he is shy and therefore needs an initiative taking partner who will actively show his desires. In love Humanist is restrained, mistrustful, observant. Little deviations in the behavior of the partner he receives painfully and does everything he can in order to preserve reciprocity in feelings. Even if in order to do this it is necessary to demonstrate offense and alienation. Humanist forgives regretting dual and tries to never remind him of the reason for their disagreement.

    Controlling can't stand discussion on personal matter and furthermore discussing relationship problems. Due to this he is inclined to do hasty conclusions and frequently commits ethical slips which complicates his relationships with people surrounding him. Lack of patience and self-control sometimes makes him sharp and tactless, he doesn't have enough not only diplomacy but also self-criticism. Due to this he needs the patience and perseverance of the Humanist who will tactfully and consistently re-educates his dual. Humanist acts not only as an educator but constantly he acts on the conscience of Controlling who is sufficiently sensitive and high moral principles are not alien to him.

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    Where do I find these cougar LSEs? Are they avoiding me because I am pudgy?
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Where do I find these cougar LSEs? Are they avoiding me because I am pudgy?
    DA is over 35 if you're interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    DA is over 35 if you're interested.
    Well, I was asking purely for the sake of inquiry. I already have a girlfriend, though I don't have any clue what her type is >__>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    I already have a girlfriend, though I don't have any clue what her type is >__>
    No worries, neither do I and I'm still alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    You like candy?
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    why does the can say science hahahaha

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    It is candy spelled backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    But they do. You think someone who can't cook, clean, take care of kids, handle finances, or hold down a job would be able to handle a relationship?
    You describe what to me are, variously, learned life skills, rudimentary tasks, and roles one might or might not flourish in. They also will be defined differently based on whose opinion is consulted, for in my view, cooking--to take one example--is not done right if it involves a box of Duncan-Hines or a bottle of Ragu, though I know an LSE who relies on them and I do not wish to eat those things. Household tasks can be carried out in a variety of ways.

    And so to me you have named chores and work but have not touched upon what makes me value another person.

    I value those I love for their inherent unique human qualities and not for these mundane tasks.

    Insight, compassion, empathy, a real desire to recognize the dreams and potentials and heart of the other for me absolutely precede the practicalities, which can be accomplished in cooperation, perhaps (even, gasp) imperfectly, with the inner connection established as the foundation and mainstay.

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    YOU KNOW WE COULD HAVE SAVED THE EARTH BUT WE WERE TOO DAMN CHEAP!
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    Do you guys remember that study done on relationship type and marriage happiness? It was for mbti, but i still thought it was rather interesting. It said the most compatible pairings were sj-sj, nfp-sfj, and nf-nf. So imo Logical types in general have problems in maintaining marriage happiness. I think partially it is about gender expectations (Ts being predominantly male) but also, often they seem to lack the requisite social skills/an ability to laugh at themselves and not take themselves too seriously so when conflict arises they get all butthurt and lash out. I think estjs of any stripe are particularly prone to this and perhaps because it is generally expected of the woman to be the forgiving one/one seeking reconciliation estj females may have more problems with this than average. Not saying LSE = estj, but maybe it adds another element to the discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships, which ends up looking and feeling like control. Like love equals control. When a relationship fails they will turn back to work. They appear to resolve to make the next relationship work ... Force it, control it. Not to be gotten the better of again. And it is something of a downward trend. They become less able over time to relate openly and equally, and some seem lonely, some commit to someone but it appears a brittle relationship. Surely there are some happy ones, with a fitting functional partner,, but I do not know any at present. I know one who appears to be dating an INFj who is probably great, but I know he works about 70 hours a week, maybe more, so I suspect he will lose her.

    Anyhow, a mature woman (or man) can indulge the illusion of control by dating younger. Also by deciding in advance it is sex only, negating the possibility of vulnerability and hurt. Also by focusing on someone a bit damaged and thus malleable ... I have seen LSEs do those things, though they are hardly the only ones.
    I find this to be sadly true. Especially the Te subtypes can appear so controlling and forceful that I can't stand them even though I'm supposed to be their "dual". There's one extremely proud and hot-tempered Te-LSE girl that I know who's had a habit of getting into mutually abusive or even violent relationships (usually with other delta st:s) since she was 13. Her current partner is a SLI, and they constantly blackmail and fight each other and make everyone else feel so uncomfortable that they rarely want to see them. It's horrible to watch when there's nothing you can do about it.

    One refreshing exception that comes to mind is a Si-LSE friend of mine who's so well-balanced and mature and just uttelry adorable that I sometimes wonder if it's even possible for any human being to even moderately dislike her. It took me ages to type her as I really couldn't see her having any function as a weak one. Even IEIs seem to like her very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COMFINED View Post
    An issue I see with LSEs is that as they age and get more mastery over certain areas of life (work mainly), they seem to expect those same skills to apply to relationships, which ends up looking and feeling like control. Like love equals control. When a relationship fails they will turn back to work. They appear to resolve to make the next relationship work ... Force it, control it. Not to be gotten the better of again. And it is something of a downward trend. They become less able over time to relate openly and equally, and some seem lonely, some commit to someone but it appears a brittle relationship. Surely there are some happy ones, with a fitting functional partner,, but I do not know any at present. I know one who appears to be dating an INFj who is probably great, but I know he works about 70 hours a week, maybe more, so I suspect he will lose her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I find this to be sadly true. Especially the Te subtypes can appear so controlling and forceful that I can't stand them even though I'm supposed to be their "dual". There's one extremely proud and hot-tempered Te-LSE girl that I know who's had a habit of getting into mutually abusive or even violent relationships (usually with other delta st:s) since she was 13. Her current partner is a SLI, and they constantly blackmail and fight each other and make everyone else feel so uncomfortable that they rarely want to see them. It's horrible to watch when there's nothing you can do about it.

    One refreshing exception that comes to mind is a Si-LSE friend of mine who's so well-balanced and mature and just uttelry adorable that I sometimes wonder if it's even possible for any human being to even moderately dislike her. It took me ages to type her as I really couldn't see her having any function as a weak one. Even IEIs seem to like her very much.
    This is interesting, and it brings up the depressing possibility of my stepfather being my dual after all. There is very much a love/control dynamic going with him ("I must put you on the right path no matter what because I want you to have what's best for you") that drives everyone else nuts. It may be completely off, but I've wondered sometimes if he's overcompensating for his own childhood (his father used to be a well-to-do but abusive drunk), like he's ridiculously determined that he's not going to turn out screwed up kids. He also happens to be a textbook ESTJ.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I find this to be sadly true. Especially the Te subtypes can appear so controlling and forceful that I can't stand them even though I'm supposed to be their "dual". There's one extremely proud and hot-tempered Te-LSE girl that I know who's had a habit of getting into mutually abusive or even violent relationships (usually with other delta st:s) since she was 13. Her current partner is a SLI, and they constantly blackmail and fight each other and make everyone else feel so uncomfortable that they rarely want to see them. It's horrible to watch when there's nothing you can do about it.

    One refreshing exception that comes to mind is a Si-LSE friend of mine who's so well-balanced and mature and just uttelry adorable that I sometimes wonder if it's even possible for any human being to even moderately dislike her. It took me ages to type her as I really couldn't see her having any function as a weak one. Even IEIs seem to like her very much.
    What? you're "her dual" you're supposed to guide her ethics. WTH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    What? you're "her dual" you're supposed to guide her ethics. WTH?
    Just because you "can" effect someone doesn't mean your attempt will be successful. Maybe that person doesn't think there's anything wrong or isn't open to changing. Or maybe Agarina has her own reasons for not interfering, if that is what she chose (obviously, I don't know).
    Johari/Nohari

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Just because you "can" effect someone doesn't mean your attempt will be successful. Maybe that person doesn't think there's anything wrong or isn't open to changing. Or maybe Agarina has her own reasons for not interfering, if that is what she chose (obviously, I don't know).
    LSE LOOK for that. yeah, LSE want to get into shitty relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    LSE LOOK for that. yeah, LSE want to get into shitty relationships.
    I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here. I don't think anyone says to themselves, "Hey, I want to get into a shitty relationship with someone!" However, some people do have a pattern of getting into unhealthy relationships because they don't know any better or don't feel they deserve better. It's not necessarily socionic in nature, and there's no guarantee that their dual will kick them out of that habit (or that the one who does finally get them to seek better will be their dual).
    Johari/Nohari

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here. I don't think anyone says to themselves, "Hey, I want to get into a shitty relationship with someone!" However, some people do have a pattern of getting into unhealthy relationships because they don't know any better or don't feel they deserve better. It's not necessarily socionic in nature, and there's no guarantee that their dual will kick them out of that habit (or that the one who does finally get them to seek better will be their dual).
    Oh, and LSE want to stay in shitty relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Oh, and LSE want to stay in shitty relationships.
    .................Still sarcasm?
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    What? you're "her dual" you're supposed to guide her ethics. WTH?
    Yeah, I sure can fix domestic violence that's been going on for years and all the reasons behind that by using my Fi superpowers! I'll just tell them that it's not nice to hit other people and that'll do it! Why didn't this option even cross my idea-generating Ne mind? Gosh, maybe I AM SEE after all, you were right about me all the time Maritzah.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 09-12-2012 at 10:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Do you people not read what I write?

    Humanist like no other finds approach to his dual.

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    .........I guess NOT!

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