Constructing mental objects in your mind

[Fermi]

Hi!

I just wanted to tell you of an idea and then possible you can tell me of similar experiences. I think this is how people normally do so you should have no trouble with that.

OK, the thing is that I once when I was little tried to make a little computer in my mind. It was going to have a calculator for doing my calculatory needs for example integrate sinx/x from 0.2 to 0.6 which is hard but I would have some kind of algorithm for that.
Also it would come with some basic filing systems for which I could put in information and then be extracted at will. The reason for doing this was that I saw a need for having these things and it seemed like a fun idea to try to accomplish. Anyway I never got far with it.. until recently..
This summer I was reading a textbook and for saving information I made a little house in my mind and then inside the house ( it's inside is arbitrarily big) I put drawers on the side and in each drawer I placed a paper with a little picture on it and a title of what I was supposed to remember. This was pretty fun and I filled up two drawers but the deadline was coming up so I had to stop with it and start learning faster so I haven't used it since.

So anyway, have you have any experiences with something like this? The idea is kind of like the mind is something you control and fool around with so why not build something with it?

[Creepy-Snaps]

Hi.

http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Memory-Palace

[Fermi]

Hi!
It's very possible that I was influenced by these already known ideas (memory palace, or method of loci) when I was making that house for the textbook however I probably wasn't influenced by it when I tried making that "computer" in my mind so making these kind of explorations on your own might not be so unusual but you probably won't hear people talk about them a lot. Hopefully that last part will change by someone coming out of the closet

[Esaman]

Hi!
It's very possible that I was influenced by these allready known ideas (memory palace, or method of loci) when I was making that house for the textbook however I probably wasn't influenced by it when I tried making that "computer" in my mind so making these kind of explorations on your own might not be so unusual but you probably won't hear people talk about them a lot. Hopefully that last part will change by someone coming out of the closet

Come out and say what? I make mental models/representations of things? Everybody does that, difference is how discrete, accurate, complex and useful the models are. Also I guess how active and conscious the process of creation of the model is.

[Fermi]

What kind of models and representation of things do you do?

What I am talking about is not imagination it's like you are programming in the language of the mind to make permanent programs in your mind. I would say it would be equivalent to making up an imaginary friend that keeps track of peoples name, birthdays and important things so you won't have to. ( but of course it is you and only you that keeps track of it but atleast it won't be conscious)

Also I think a pre-requisite for making these is that you have to be bored out of your mind At the time it felt like a mental revolution since it seems to have a lot of potential but I never got around doing it so I hoped someone else might have

[Absurd]

Hahaha, I knew it all along.

[Fermi]

Absurd you are being illogical and no one likes your ill-witted antics.

Nha I kid of course. I am a big fan

[Esaman]

What kind of models and representation of things do you do?

What I am talking about is not imagination it's like you are programming in the language of the mind to make permanent programs in your mind. I would say it would be equivalent to making up an imaginary friend that keeps track of peoples name, birthdays and important things so you won't have to. ( but of course it is you and only you that keeps track of it but atleast it won't be conscious)

Also I think a pre-requisite for making these is that you have to be bored out of your mind At the time it felt like a mental revolution since it seems to have a lot of potential but I never got around doing it so I hoped someone else might have

I know what you are talking about and it is a super cool thing. Would you be disappointed if that very cool thing had a familiar name? Which is "learning".
You either:
*create associative chain to remember things
*create complex associative complex which is a model
*learn performative methods/tricks
All of those when practiced become natural and possibly even subconscious.

[Fermi]

even if the end result is learning, the way you learn it, the methodology, is interesting and can be used for more than learning. Also memorizing isnt learning.

Besides it's not just about learning. But if you think everything you can manage is some kind of learning and categorize and end it with that there won't be much discussion here.

[squark]

When I was a kid I remember wishing that I could access my mind and memory in an almost physical way, yes. In that I could store things with labels, making retrieval a simple process of looking them up again, with everything ordered and easy to find. So that retrieving lost things in my mind wouldn't be such a process of digging and searching and following buried threads, and I'd have everything I ever learned completely accessible to me within this neatly organized and automatic storage system.

It's too limited though, because what you learn are not discrete packets of information, they come with attachments and connections to other things, so that the entire structure becomes a web of tunnels and interstates, small roads and narrow alleys depending on degree of use and strength of connections. It might be difficult to find something at the end of a little used alley off of an obscure side-street, but having it tucked away keeps it from interfering with the things that need to be along the heavily trafficked and oft-accessed areas.

So, instead of a series of filing cabinets, you can just rotate and rearrange an entire city in your mind, bringing what's needed more often (even temporarily) to the forefront, to those main roads you travel frequently, and then push it back away when no longer needed.

[Esaman]

"even if the end result is learning, the way you learn it, the methodology, is interesting and can be used for more than learning."
- Methodology is interesting. No it can't be used for more than learning.
"Also memorizing isnt learning."
- Sure it is. Just most primitive and least usable kind.
"Besides it's not just about learning."
-How so?

[Fermi]

"- Methodology is interesting. No it can't be used for more than learning."
Well, the example I made with integrating. Having a numerical integrator in your brain isn't learning. That's just awesome.

oh and if you want to store away something then first you must know what it is. So the learning is prior to the storing. So the special thing is just that you put what you know in drawers. So it is more like remembering instead of learning. Which renders your "cool familiar thing response" nullified!

Besides, instead of talking about details you could share some mind hacks of your own.

Squark I liked your post. Very pragmatic actually how you could prioritize certain information. The thing I used it for, or had atleast imagined how I would use it was that I make a house for every subject I had. Like I started with multivariable calculus in one house and one house with linear algebra and another with like subatomic physics so I would only store critical information about each subject like theorems, proofs, solution methods and so on. I think in that way that information is kind of a "discrete package" so that might work.

[Absurd]

Absurd you are being illogical and no one likes your ill-witted antics.

Nha I kid of course. I am a big fan

?

[Fermi]

?

Do or do not. There is no try.

[Esaman]

"- Methodology is interesting. No it can't be used for more than learning."
Well, the example I made with integrating. Having a numerical integrator in your brain isn't learning. That's just awesome.

oh and if you want to store away something then first you must know what it is. So the learning is prior to the storing. So the special thing is just that you put what you know in drawers. So it is more like remembering instead of learning. Which renders your "cool familiar thing response" nullified!

Besides, instead of talking about details you could share some mind hacks of your own.

Squark I liked your post. Very pragmatic actually how you could prioritize certain information. The thing I used it for, or had atleast imagined how I would use it was that I make a house for every subject I had. Like I started with multivariable calculus in one house and one house with linear algebra and another with like subatomic physics so I would only store critical information about each subject like theorems, proofs, solution methods and so on. I think in that way that information is kind of a "discrete package" so that might work.

Thank you for showing accentuated example of what Se role is like. Now if you are done bragging maybe you could move on to more interesting and informative discernments than "it is awesome".

There is no "storing" separate from "learning" in the brain. Creation of new pattern/sequence/associations/neural connections is both. Remembering is reactivation of the pattern.
Mental palace works by artificially creating bigger multisensory pattern that includes particular piece of information.
It think it would be a mistake though to use that technique for anything but trivia. Instrumental information must be contextualized/connected/remembered meaningfully not to lie in some virtual "drawer".

[Fermi]

I said it was awesome because it was different from learning so I would make my point but also trying to lighten to mood for which, if you haven't noticed, you are kind of dragging it down. Perhaps if you would stop trying to imagine some kind of hidden agenda from my part like bragging you can save yourself some time so you could be more focused on the matter at hand. You haven't exactly come up with new material since your first posts.

But you don't see. First I learn it then I put it in a place for storing. I like how you talk like you know exactly how a brain works and to talk using your words (which I shouldn't since I know nothing about neurology but you probably don't either and you aren't giving sources so I can say whatever. Which kind of makes any point I will useless.). First you get a pattern for learning it. then you go about and put it in a drawer and then you make additions to that pattern. That addition is labeled storing and no new learnings was made that day.

By learning I mean: The act, process, or experience of gaining knowledge or skill.

Since that other act of putting it in a drawer or whatever doesn't give you any new knowledge it's not learning. It's storing. and if you want to define learning as creating new patterns in your brain then fine but then we are talking about different things.

[Spiro]

Hi!

I just wanted to tell you of an idea and then possible you can tell me of similar experiences. I think this is how people normally do so you should have no trouble with that.

OK, the thing is that I once when I was little tried to make a little computer in my mind. It was going to have a calculator for doing my calculatory needs for example integrate sinx/x from 0.2 to 0.6 which is hard but I would have some kind of algorithm for that.
Also it would come with some basic filing systems for which I could put in information and then be extracted at will. The reason for doing this was that I saw a need for having these things and it seemed like a fun idea to try to accomplish. Anyway I never got far with it.. until recently..
This summer I was reading a textbook and for saving information I made a little house in my mind and then inside the house ( it's inside is arbitrarily big) I put drawers on the side and in each drawer I placed a paper with a little picture on it and a title of what I was supposed to remember. This was pretty fun and I filled up two drawers but the deadline was coming up so I had to stop with it and start learning faster so I haven't used it since.

So anyway, have you have any experiences with something like this? The idea is kind of like the mind is something you control and fool around with so why not build something with it?

are you from earth