type this description

[ashlesha]

there will be no vi so this is for the patient and hardcore only.

i will say i think he is an enneagram 5. i suspected 8 at first but 5 makes a lot more sense (i'm only mentioning that i suspected 8 to help illustrate what he's like - he is a 5, but he is not meek or obviously withdrawn, at all.)

he has slightly jerky movements. doesn't fidget a lot. when he is deep in thought sometimes he has the habit of grabbing his hair and twisting, ending up with a unicorn hairdo and not noticing. he hums cheerfully sometimes when preoccupied or under slight stress. his voice is often louder than necessary but this could be due to the fact that he has issues with his hearing. sometimes he becomes very animated when talking and this presents itself in his leaned forward neck and shoulders and his eyes brightening. when this happens the corners of his mouth turn up a little and he gives the impression of trying not to smile. overall most of his body language is from the shoulders up. he can be very animated.

his physical presence can be intimidating to people who don't know him well. he strikes up conversations with strangers fairly often, and with his leaned in body language and sparkly eyes and loud voice and excitability, he doesn't seem to realize that he might come off a bit intrusive. this is subjective, but to me his demeanor when being friendly with people is like he's giving the impression he's letting them in on secrets and anticipating their surprise.

he comes across as pretty eccentric sometimes and i have no idea if this is something he cultivates, doesn't care about, or doesn't know. like, waving his cane around at children and dogs and ranting, lol.

his sense of humor is pretty crude, he likes dirty jokes, and he says things to get reactions (his reaction to hearing that i cut my hair short: "what are you a butch dyke now?") but this is in contrast to the fact that he's actually quite conservative. he's an older guy - in his 60s - so this probably influences his attitudes towards social issues, which are pretty standard old-fashioned: races should stick together, the "gay agenda" is bad, etc.

he can be very knee-jerk and forceful about defending his beliefs, which are sometimes idiosyncratic. for example, upon hearing religion referred to as "myth" when somebody was referencing a book which used that terminology, he started yelling and became inconsolable about the fact that it was just the term being used for academic reasons. "my religion is not a myth! i will not tolerate that!" another time he saw somebody wearing blue fingernail polish and started talking about how they practice witchcraft because non-traditional nail color is a sign of satanism, and when i tried to explain that it was just fashionable these days he dug in his heels and insisted. blue fingernail polish = witchcraft, 100%, no bullshit. its not unusual for him to get odd correlations in his head like that and defend them in the face of common sense.

he wears a lot of button-up colorful shirts. he likes sci-fi, westerns, and boxing.

maybe this is age, too, but when in my company for a long time he starts to obviously take it for granted that i will cater to him with food and getting things for him, etc. where he stops asking. and he can be very particular about his tastes. like in everything else, he expresses his opinions firmly in this area. but he's more vocal with the negative. a meal can be "..not bad" (with an eye twinkle to let you know it was actually really good) or it can be "terrible! i can't eat this"
(and everybody must know it!)

he has a weird attitude about attention. on one hand, upon finding out about cancer that he was told would kill him soon, he decided he would absolutely not stick around anybody that knew him because he didn't want to be seen dying and he didn't want people taking care of him, so he got a camper and ran off halfway across the country. on the other hand, i've gotten a random phone call from him saying, "what do you know about anaphylactic shock? i might have it" and after i tell him to go to the hospital and then call me back, saying, "i'm not going to call you back, i'll be dead." (!!! funny !!!)

i could keep going and going and going but this is already probably tl;dr, if you have any specific questions go ahead and ask.

[Ryan]

SEE.

I only have one question, what is his line of work, is he retired or not?

[ashlesha]

he's retired now but did various things throughout his life. navy, delivering pizza, maintenance, carpentry, building computers. sort of a Jack of all trades I guess.

the career he talks about the most fondly is when he worked creatively with a bread company and helped invent new kinds of bread (like raisin rye or, I don't know, whatever)

his degree was in some kind of science I forget the name of but it had to do with his baking career. yeasts and bacterias and stuff like that. with a minor in psychology.

[Ryan]

Okay, sounds about right.

[ashlesha]

its funny because that's very different from what ive had in mind but i can see where you got it from anyways.

[Ryan]

What do you have in mind?

[ashlesha]

i don't want to say, i want more people to respond, sorry!

[Ryan]

Lol, but I want to know. Send me a private message, will you?

[ashlesha]

okay so this is someone I've typed lii but when I've talked about him in chat people have seen se and suggested lsi.

I'm really only comfortable with considering those two or at the very least merry quadra.

if he doesn't sound smart enough to be ti, well, he's being described from an esi perspective so there's that.

our relationship has been pretty hellish in the past but for the last several years I've considered him a friend. we can't always really understand each other but we can feel comfortable together and enjoy each others company.

any thoughts, given this new information?

[Absurd]

Not SEE or I am missing something in this, unless lungs dislikes her mirrors...

[ashlesha]

sounds like a swell guy (but now i'm second guessing myself coz maybe it's just you presenting him that way? )

err...what other long standing habits does he have? routines? does he try to convince people of his opinions or does he just make a claim that he won't budge...etc ?

any more examples of his sense of humor (this for my own entertainment )

how is he with taking care of his health (long term i mean)?

eta: what about him is rational you think?

habits and routines?
he's not unpredictable in his habits. a lot of time on the computer. watching movies. going for walks. was into motorcycles when he was younger. he's a decent cook and does it for enjoyment sometimes.

hm, he does try to convince people, maybe but I'm not sure. usually what happens in our conversations is one of us will say something we know will push the others buttons and if the bait is taken an impassioned debate might take place. his opinions are very strongly held but from my perspective it looks more like defending them than imposing them. its hard to say, though, it would require too much knowledge of his motivations.

his sense of humor?
"why are women so bad at math?" * holds hands about five inches apart* "all their lives they've been told this is eight inches!"
he can be really goofy like if you ask him where he's going he night say "the funny farm!hehehe!"
he's prone to poking you or winking at you after telling a joke.

his health?
he used to smoke three packs a day but he quit cold Turkey.
he listens to his doctor and he will do these things like asparagus is good for my cancer so I will eat one serving of asparagus a day.
he walks a lot, and swims sometimes.
he is getting old though and he was kind of rebellious in his youth so I cant speak for his habits throughout his lifetime.

why rational? his rigid eccentricity just screams ji to me. he's fairly structured and habit prone as well.

[Gilly]

Types that came to mind when reading: LIE, ILE, SLE, LSI. Put a gun to my head and I would say LSI. ESI isn't implausible, but he sounds like a logical type (E5/E8, seems he doesn't realize how he comes across very well)

[ashlesha]

Not SEE or I am missing something in this, unless lungs dislikes her mirrors...

i don't dislike him, maybe you didn't read everything. he's not SEE though.

ok, thanks. err, still not sure...

would you say he shares information or looks for it? if so, what kind of info?

say, person i know visited me once and was constantly quizzing me about major industries in town, how and where people made their money etc.

also, would you say he trusts people? i mean, is he consistent in how he views his relations?

he's definitely more of a "here's what i know" type than a "what do you know" type. he's not the type to be embarrassed about asking questions if its a topic he's unfamiliar with but he appears to be more in his element as a teacher than a student. i tried to tell him about socionics once but in the process i mentioned jung and once he heard that name he started talking over me about jungian psychology until we were both talking about two different things and he wasn't hearing anything except what he had to say about the inner child and shit and i let it go.

i wouldn't say he trusts people. overall i see him as pretty consistent but i can very well see how other people might not think he's consistent because he likes to talk a lot of shit sometimes. he has a few people he trusts but for the most part the world is filled with assholes and cheats and all that. he didn't have a phone for a really long time because he didn't want motherfuckers bothering him. very sensitive to impositions on his space. five-ish stuff. sometimes he can be really paranoid.

also i type him 5w6 and probably sx/so, if it matters.

[ashlesha]

i miiiiiight consider ile only because bill maher kinda reminds me of him and he's pretty outgoing for an introvert. to me he just seems sooo ji though. and his fe-seeking is excruciatingly obvious. and conflictor doesn't feel right.

[mu4]

LSI

[Ryan]

I doubt he is LII. The fact that he did so many low level jobs (no offense), doesn't sound like he moved up much in his professions, and that he ended up considering baking as his most prized makes me doubt that he is a Thinking type. He doesn't sound like he found his niche anywhere, and I doubt many Thinking types would feel that way about their professions. He could have had a high-medium ranking position in the navy, I guess, but that would make him far from being LII.

His humor is very offensive, I only make jokes like that when I want to put someone in their place i.e. in response to an aggressive banter from their part, but that's like only once/twice in a life time thing per close person. Boxing is also top Se-ego sport.

None of his interests so far sounds very intellectual, even for an LSI, so Ti-base is kind of the last thing I would consider. Maybe SLE, but I can't see LSI. Ne-ego is not possible though. His interests are very traditional, and none of them seem to have evolved/progressed into something currently people are interested in - maybe sci-fi is an argument against what I'm saying here, but he still wouldn't be Ti-base.

I still don't know what his degree is, so I'm not gonna comment on it, but he minored in psychology, a very humanitarian subject (kind of odd for a Thinking type for someone at his age and at that time), and yet this interest of his doesn't seem to have evolved much, or up to date. The kind of judgments he makes are very unlike Ne/Ni-egos, I would expect a Ne-ego to be more perceptive and understanding of people, especially if they have an interest in psychology. He should be much wiser than this description of his. This pretty much eliminates any NF/NT typing for him anyway.

The only thing that does makes him sound like a Thinking type (and maybe to an extent, an introvert) is the fact that he sits a lot on the computer. But I would have to know what he does on it. If all he does is watching movies, reading sports reviews, etc. then he is probably extroverted.

[ashlesha]

Ryan that started being entirely wrong at your characterization of inventing new bread types as "baking" and continued into you saying he has no intellectual interests when I mentioned his passion for Jungian psychology and didn't get any better from there. there's very little in your post I can take seriously.

[ashlesha]

though I gotta say, at least Ryan actually tried to support his ideas instead of just throwing out types, thats always nice.

[Ryan]

Haha. For the record, I was only trying to disprove the LII argument in hopes that you would provide information of that kind, otherwise there is little to judge in terms of Ti/Te or Ni/Ne from your posts - for example, and I know you didn't say that but, most of what you say is like this "he is not good at Se, so he is Ne", and what I want is "he is Ne, because he is good at this Ne stuff" - on the other hand, there lots of evidence for him being a Se-ego, and maybe a Feeling type, which may be partly due to your involvement - maybe offering a different reading of him, from someone else close to him could be helpful in this case, if you feel that your point of view isn't getting through? The rest is just me exploring an alternative type for him besides SEE. I can settle for LSI, but you're not offering much besides a lack of social grace, and I'm reluctant to take that for granted.

[d1ffe7]

I'm not sure what I'd type him yet, but I can see LSI/LII from what you've posted. Getting excited about things and the sparkling eyes definitely seems ti. The part about him having cancer and not wanting to be taken care of or being so nonchalant potentially dying aren't behaviors I can picture from the alphas I know. Of course that could be how he grew up, etc. I could see the cane waving and other eccentricities being either. An SLE I know does things like that and I could see him acting like other things you've described.

What makes you think that he might be se-polr?

Are there any miscommunications or misunderstandings that you two have had that you'd want to elaborate on?

[Absurd]

i don't dislike him, maybe you didn't read everything.

I did. Anyhow, you have had him pinned down before as Fe seeking/merry quadra plus not a Ethical one which narrows it down to LII, ILE, LSI and SLE to consider, oh and you know him best.

[Trevor]

The fact that he did so many low level jobs (no offense), doesn't sound like he moved up much in his professions, and that he ended up considering baking as his most prized makes me doubt that he is a Thinking type.

Doing low level jobs and not moving up much in a profession is something most people end up with so this is not really useful.

If one absolutely has to correlate this with socionics one would be best of to correlate this with Sensing rather than Thinking. "navy, delivering pizza, maintenance, carpentry, building computers. sort of a Jack of all trades " all benefit from good Sensorics while Logic/Ethics has little to do with this.

http://www.socionics.us/theory/int_sen.shtml

[ashlesha]

What makes you think that he might be se-polr?

only that if Se has anything to do with applying pressure or aggression i can more easily see him overcompensating in this area than being fluent in it. also his goofiness and his expectation that he'll be doted on in a caregiver way (but like i said maybe this is an age thing, being an older male).

he was one of the first people i typed when i found socionics and typed myself EII so it's hard to remember exactly what was going on in my head at the time and it kind of stuck with me as a valid typing and hard to dismiss because i'm just used to it, lol. also having typed him as a 5 which i associated with intx-ness and his eccentricity and interest in things like jung. he talks about philosophical concepts a lot, though i'm not sure how well-read he is about them. not unusual for him to say something like, "what if all the planets in the universe are dustmotes in a giant's attic!" or whatever. he's more interested in those kinds of subjects than a lot of people i know. there might have been some intuitive bias happening too.

Are there any miscommunications or misunderstandings that you two have had that you'd want to elaborate on?

hmm a lot of them are more personal than i'd like to go - mostly from when we lived together and i had to live by his rules. i felt that he was too ridiculously arbitrary and authoritarian and i ran away a lot and we fought intensely. as adults with a reasonable distance from eachother our relationship is pretty clear of conflict, if not incredibly deep. the only thing that comes immediately to mind is the thing about referring to religion as "myth" but that was just a five-minute spat. a lot of it comes down to us both being pretty stubborn and me thinking that he gets all twisted up over arbitrary things just in his head and him thinking that i'm disrespectful and i push too far.

[Absurd]

I think I get it

[The Ineffable]

I think Extroverted Irrational. I don't know how that description to you fits Ij, but I really can't see it. I'd go for IEE first, then SEE, ILE and finally EIE.

[Beautiful sky]

there will be no vi so this is for the patient and hardcore only.

ok

i will say i think he is an enneagram 5. i suspected 8 at first but 5 makes a lot more sense (i'm only mentioning that i suspected 8 to help illustrate what he's like - he is a 5, but he is not meek or obviously withdrawn, at all.)

doesn't help me

he has slightly jerky movements. doesn't fidget a lot. when he is deep in thought sometimes he has the habit of grabbing his hair and twisting, ending up with a unicorn hairdo and not noticing. he hums cheerfully sometimes when preoccupied or under slight stress. his voice is often louder than necessary but this could be due to the fact that he has issues with his hearing. sometimes he becomes very animated when talking and this presents itself in his leaned forward neck and shoulders and his eyes brightening. when this happens the corners of his mouth turn up a little and he gives the impression of trying not to smile. overall most of his body language is from the shoulders up. he can be very animated.

hum.

his physical presence can be intimidating to people who don't know him well. he strikes up conversations with strangers fairly often, and with his leaned in body language and sparkly eyes and loud voice and excitability, he doesn't seem to realize that he might come off a bit intrusive. this is subjective, but to me his demeanor when being friendly with people is like he's giving the impression he's letting them in on secrets and anticipating their surprise.

A sensory type

he comes across as pretty eccentric sometimes and i have no idea if this is something he cultivates, doesn't care about, or doesn't know. like, waving his cane around at children and dogs and ranting, lol.

his sense of humor is pretty crude, he likes dirty jokes, and he says things to get reactions (his reaction to hearing that i cut my hair short: "what are you a butch dyke now?") but this is in contrast to the fact that he's actually quite conservative. he's an older guy - in his 60s - so this probably influences his attitudes towards social issues, which are pretty standard old-fashioned: races should stick together, the "gay agenda" is bad, etc.

ISTp

he can be very knee-jerk and forceful about defending his beliefs, which are sometimes idiosyncratic. for example, upon hearing religion referred to as "myth" when somebody was referencing a book which used that terminology, he started yelling and became inconsolable about the fact that it was just the term being used for academic reasons. "my religion is not a myth! i will not tolerate that!" another time he saw somebody wearing blue fingernail polish and started talking about how they practice witchcraft because non-traditional nail color is a sign of satanism, and when i tried to explain that it was just fashionable these days he dug in his heels and insisted. blue fingernail polish = witchcraft, 100%, no bullshit. its not unusual for him to get odd correlations in his head like that and defend them in the face of common sense.

he wears a lot of button-up colorful shirts. he likes sci-fi, westerns, and boxing.

maybe this is age, too, but when in my company for a long time he starts to obviously take it for granted that i will cater to him with food and getting things for him, etc. where he stops asking. and he can be very particular about his tastes. like in everything else, he expresses his opinions firmly in this area. but he's more vocal with the negative. a meal can be "..not bad" (with an eye twinkle to let you know it was actually really good) or it can be "terrible! i can't eat this"
(and everybody must know it!)

he has a weird attitude about attention. on one hand, upon finding out about cancer that he was told would kill him soon, he decided he would absolutely not stick around anybody that knew him because he didn't want to be seen dying and he didn't want people taking care of him, so he got a camper and ran off halfway across the country. on the other hand, i've gotten a random phone call from him saying, "what do you know about anaphylactic shock? i might have it" and after i tell him to go to the hospital and then call me back, saying, "i'm not going to call you back, i'll be dead." (!!! funny !!!)

i could keep going and going and going but this is already probably tl;dr, if you have any specific questions go ahead and ask.

ISTp