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    Angry Banned From a Chat Room

    Just wondering if you guys could give some input on why I just got banned from this twitch chat.

    Basically, this girl was gaming and potentially got DDoS'd about 5 times(basically when someone overloads your internet so it crashes). So in the chat window, one of the mods basically says, he thinks he knows who did it and he has a way of dealing with it. After about 10 minutes, everyone is still in the chat rambling on about how the Streamer got DDoS'd, saying stuff like, "I know people who work at X company, I can get his address...so and so is gonna take this guy to court" blah blah blah. They just kept going on and on about how the kid is some punk and he's gonna get screwed for doing what he did.

    So I hop in the chat room and basically say, "I think you guys are overreacting." So they start asking why and I basically say, "you yourself said he's just some 12 year old kid and you're talking about taking him to court and finding his address, etc., that's a bit extreme, and if you're going to take this up with X company do it, but you don't need to keep talking about it" So then the streamer jumps in and says, "What's your problem?" I say, "I just don't see why we're still talking about this, it was already said that he'd be dealt with." Within 2 seconds I was banned for 10 minutes and had all of my messages deleted.

    Right after that, someone called the mods out about it and they among other viewers including the Streamer herself came to the consensus that I was, "being annoying." I don't really get how saying, "why are we still talking about this if you already said you'd deal with it" is annoying. Not to mention the Streamer herself asked for my opinion and I got banned for giving it?

    I gotta say, this happens pretty often with me and it's the main reason I've had so many problems with people throughout my life. I can throw down and have a good time with the best of em, but the second a debate/serious discussion comes up everyone is quick to start getting frustrated with me and I start getting ganged up on and lose friends. I seriously don't get what it is I'm doing wrong. It's not like I'm attacking anyone or being offensive, I'm just telling it how it is or how I see it.

    From my point of view, all they're doing after figuring out the problem and getting a solution is rambling/venting/working each other up. There's no reason to keep whining about something if its already said and done and you have a solution to the problem. They were just blowing the whole thing out of proportion. They sounded like an angry mob ready to lynch the perpetrator that raped the Streamers daughter or something. Seriously, the kid is 12, did some stupid thing that just interrupted the stream a few times, got his kicks and probably won't be back for awhile if ever. If he comes back, stop him, if not, whatever. But for literally 20 minutes or more(including my ban time...I could view the chat) they were saying the same crap about, "this kid has done this to other people, I'm gonna find his address, I'm taking this to court, I'm contacting X Company." It's like seriously, shut up and do it then, don't sit here for 20 minutes telling me about how you're gonna do this or do that, just do it. And find his address, seriously? Then what, you're gonna go beat up a 12 year old....for ruining 30 minutes of streaming?

    The other thing that got me was that when I got un-banned and asked what the deal was, people started saying, "why are you defending the kid, in the Streamers channel, you should expect to get banned." I'd love to know how looking at a situation logically is "defending the kid." I'm not defending anyone, I'm just looking at it for what it is...some little kid getting his kicks, not really causing any serious trouble, just temporary inconvenience.

    I always get pinned in these sort of situations when it comes down to discussing/debating something and I'm pretty fed up with being banned/losing friends/etc. over having an opinion of my own and not blindly agreeing with everyone else.

    I'm wondering if it might be that I try to separate myself from the situation and look at it for what it is. I try not to give in to the emotional atmosphere people try to create when something bad happens(I actually get pretty annoyed by it), so people kind of "team up" if you will and see that I'm not joining their side, so I become the enemy or something. I'm not really sure. Also, I wouldn't say that I try to force my opinion down peoples throats as much as I try to get them to see a different angle and stop being so wrapped up in their emotions.

    So can anyone tell me what the deal is?

    On a side note, this is what I see in these type of situations: Something bad happens, people start to fuel each other up and agree with each other, I don't buy into it, so they wind up ganging up on me and I basically end up fighting alone against a group of people(this actually happens, not an exaggeration). There always seems to be one or two guys on the side that don't really speak up, who at some point say that they agree with me, during or after the big debate...but usually never really stand in the line of fire like I do. And the one thing that's always bothered me, isn't that I have a group of people ganging up on me as much as it is, I've seen people who were cool with me...friends even, join the group against me. And when that happens our relationship pretty much goes to the gutter. They become friends with their new group and I'm seen as the outcast from then on out. Pretty much why I didn't have any friends in middle school and why I became so docile in my high school years/post high school years, I was tired of being singled out/ganged up on for holding a different opinion than everyone else and being willing to speak up about it, so I just stayed quiet and tried not to have one. I gotta say though, I'm tired of suppressing it, because it isn't natural for me.

    Also, does any of this have to do with the Enneagram or Socionics? Any indicator of my type? And what in the world can I do to stop this cycle aside from keeping my mouth shut?

    Edit: And to add to the argument I had with the Streamer, part of her argument was, "what he did was illegal." That's gotta be the dumbest argument I've ever heard. I'd bet my bottom dollar she's been around people who smoke weed/drink underage/etc. and did nothing about it. The only reason she wanted to do anything to this kid was because she was all worked up about him ruining her stream for a few minutes. "It's illegal" is just a lame after thought she had in order to justify her cause. I point stuff out like that all the time and it just gets people more pissed. Not sure why though, I'm just trying to see stuff through a crystal lens.

    Edit #2: What's also interesting, is I have people agree with stuff similar to what I posted above, but still get pissed when I do it to them. It's ridiculous.
    Last edited by Mechman; 08-24-2012 at 01:48 PM.

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    Hmmm, well I don't think you are doing anything wrong really.
    It seems like they just wanted to relish in their anger and stuff, and you suggesting that it was pointless set them off because they realized how childish they were being. People get defensive.
    I could be wrong though.

    I don't see what you did as an issue. I would have done the same.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Emotions don't like being told, or perceiving that they're being told, that they're stupid. It's usually annoying for people to get all worked up (especially if feeling righteous) and have someone point why they shouldn't. At the extreme constantly invalidating (saying they have no right to feel so, or shouldn't w/e) someone's feelings is considered a form of abuse.

    There's also the issue of someone taking a comment about their reaction too personally, in which case the problem can't be helped because it's theirs, not yours.

    One partial solution: I get the impression that you make those comments rather bluntly. Phrasing your objections more/very diplomatically may help stave off attacks and ganging-ups (otoh it is sensitive to being (deliberately?) misunderstood.) Eg: "Yeah what the kid did was annoying but.." (acknowledge that they *can* feel like that, *then* suggest redirection etc.)

    You may not feel like being diplomatic when you see yourself as being in the right, but remember that in those situations people won't be rational and that's, unless they start working on it, that. Find friends who tend to get worked up over iyo less stupid things and remember to let them have the occasional whine. People can't be managed sensibly at all times. Barring that try people who are into mental/moral self-improvement?

    You're probably not e-type 9, as these tend to find it easier/more compulsive to fly under the radar of overriding social currents.
    Maybe Contact logic - so Tx-Cre.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    One partial solution: I get the impression that you make those comments rather bluntly. Phrasing your objections more/very diplomatically may help stave off attacks and ganging-ups (otoh it is sensitive to being (deliberately?) misunderstood.) Eg: "Yeah what the kid did was annoying but.." (acknowledge that they *can* feel like that, *then* suggest redirection etc.)
    The thing is, I was trying to be diplomatic and it still resulted in the same reaction. Any more diplomatic and I'd be beating around the bush.

    You're probably not e-type 9, as these tend to find it easier/more compulsive to fly under the radar of overriding social currents.
    Yeah, I'm beginning to think I may be an 8.

    Maybe Contact logic - so Tx-Cre.
    So you're thinking either SLI, SLE, ILI or ILE?

    Just to add to this, I've been told by my mom that when I state my opinion about something, she feels like I'm "challenging" her, even when trying to be diplomatic.

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    Diplomatic E8 sounds like a bargain...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    The thing is, I was trying to be diplomatic and it still resulted in the same reaction. Any more diplomatic and I'd be beating around the bush.
    One advantage of actually beating around the bush is that, with a bit of luck and if you do it right, you can induce other people to come to the same conclusions by themselves, which they are a lot likelier to accept than being *told* them.
    Don't know if it's plausible in those situations but it's one method.

    Yeah, I'm beginning to think I may be an 8.
    I could see it.

    So you're thinking either SLI, SLE, ILI or ILE?
    Yes.

    Just to add to this, I've been told by my mom that when I state my opinion about something, she feels like I'm "challenging" her, even when trying to be diplomatic.
    Doesn't say much without knowing your mum. May be e-8(/6?) related.


    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Diplomatic E8 sounds like a bargain...
    At least one US president who was both e8 and a good manipulator. Forgot the name.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    At least one US president who was both e8 and a good manipulator. Forgot the name.
    Diplomacy and manipulation are two different things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Diplomatic E8 sounds like a bargain...
    Diplomatic? Havent heard of that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    One advantage of actually beating around the bush is that, with a bit of luck and if you do it right, you can induce other people to come to the same conclusions by themselves, which they are a lot likelier to accept than being *told* them.
    Don't know if it's plausible in those situations but it's one method.
    Ehhh, I'm not willing to go that far. I prefer to be as straight forward as possible(diplomatic isn't a problem, it's just a matter of how diplomatic I'm being), mainly so stuff is clear and easy to understand. I prefer people know exactly where I stand and what I think about something(I don't like leaving room for confusion), if I'm gonna bother speaking up at all.

    I can't dance with people like that without going nuts.

    Doesn't say much without knowing your mum. May be e-8(/6?) related.
    I'm not really sure what my mom's type is, so I couldn't tell you. I can say that I've gotten that from more than just my mom, though. It seems like a lot of people, when it comes down to sharing opinions, find me extremely abrasive or challenging. It seems like some people even go into defense mode, like I'm attacking them or something, when in reality all I'm doing is sharing my point of view. I wind up in a lot of arguments that way.

    Someone states their opinion, I state mine, they become defensive and wind up trying to pick at my point of view in order to defend their own and I don't back down, so we wind up getting into a debate(not really a fan of debates, but I'm not just gonna roll over if they challenge my point of view). Then usually by the end of it, mainly because the other person is usually pretty worked up about it, I explain I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just sharing my sentiments and they usually respond with, "Oh, it seemed like you were trying to attack my viewpoint or something."

    That happens a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Diplomacy and manipulation are two different things.
    Same tree different branches.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    Same tree different branches.
    Ahh, like different kinds of typology - same shit, new package. Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    Diplomatic? Havent heard of that before.
    Three monkeys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    Ehhh, I'm not willing to go that far. I prefer to be as straight forward as possible(diplomatic isn't a problem, it's just a matter of how diplomatic I'm being), mainly so stuff is clear and easy to understand. I prefer people know exactly where I stand and what I think about something(I don't like leaving room for confusion), if I'm gonna bother speaking up at all.

    I can't dance with people like that without going nuts.
    Fair enough. Do keep in mind the difference between frank honesty and unnecessary hurts, however you define those.

    I'm not really sure what my mom's type is, so I couldn't tell you. I can say that I've gotten that from more than just my mom, though. It seems like a lot of people, when it comes down to sharing opinions, find me extremely abrasive or challenging. It seems like some people even go into defense mode, like I'm attacking them or something, when in reality all I'm doing is sharing my point of view. I wind up in a lot of arguments that way.

    Someone states their opinion, I state mine, they become defensive and wind up trying to pick at my point of view in order to defend their own and I don't back down, so we wind up getting into a debate(not really a fan of debates, but I'm not just gonna roll over if they challenge my point of view). Then usually by the end of it, mainly because the other person is usually pretty worked up about it, I explain I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just sharing my sentiments and they usually respond with, "Oh, it seemed like you were trying to attack my viewpoint or something."

    That happens a lot.
    How come you always seem to explain you didn't mean to attack them by the *end* of the debate, rather than the beginning? Is that helpful?

    Secondly, as you know what you hear is not necessarily what others hear. Once some friends and I were sleeping in a group of sleeping bags with some strangers in the room (long story) and when one of the strangers just wouldn't. stop. snoring. the roof down. I walked over and vaguely woke them up to get them to "please shut the fuck up." Someone told me later that I sounded really angry as I said it, when I'd heard myself as annoyed but not shouting or anything.

    There's one interesting exercise about that. If many people say they feel attacked when you talk to them, it's worth say taping yourself and playing it back, or writing down what you said and reading it again later (or both.) Humans aren't mind readers, could what you have said be interpreted differently than your intent? How would you interpret your statement if you weren't the originator? Would you feel offended, grateful what? How would somebody, say, more sensitive than you react?

    Bonus question: Assuming you do talk aggressively, why do you do it? Or why would you usually do it?
    Reason is a whore.

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    @ OP: It sounds like you're hanging out with too many gamer dorks on the internet. They've got the collective social skills and emotion control of a jelly donut.
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    I knew someone is going to shorten that damn long post so I won't have to read it. Hmm, this forum isn't that bad.

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    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    A DDOS attack is a malicious attack, vs a number of victimless crimes like weed, drinking. If someone DDOS'ed this site and took it down you can be sure I will be extremely pissed and will track this person down using whatever means available to me.

    I probably wouldn't put a 12 yo kid in jail, but if it was say another individual, I wouldn't necessarily be merciful.

    Anyways, the streamer's channel is a more or less semi-private environment, and if you go in to "troll" or disagree with the streamer you will be looked upon poorly. This is not a environment conducive to free discussion or anything.

    You need to be able to differentiate between illegal and malicious, because those are entirely different.

    IMO, at the moment you're doing the same thing, trying to gather people to support you. However this is a discussion forum so people will freely criticize you here without the fear of being banned.


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    OP,that sounds like supressed Se hiding behind Ti. i guess that it is something to expect in the gaming subculture especially from burnt out older people .or not.what you do is admirable though.for the vast majority of people it is hard to break out of their weakness and be vocal about stuff.they think that keeping silent is diplomacy.maybe it is.sometimes it's hard to understand when diplomacy ends and cowardice starts.
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    I read in Socionics Monthly magazine, no it is not a comic, it is a magazine that mostly SeTi people off themselves.

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    You did something VERY wrong - you dared upset the prevailing social dynamic with lame things like facts, reason, and objectivity.

    It's up to you how to come to terms with that. I believe Marcus Aurelius had an interesting take, to the effect of, "why do I seek the esteem of fools?"
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Well, the bigger picture is that you're just caring/giving a shit about it too much. If these people really are out to fuck anybody's lives over, then you have to trust that God/higher authorities/whatever will handle it.

    As for not having many friends. That's not really something to be shameful over. People suck. Doing the right thing was more important to you than being popular, and you should pat yourself on the back for that. Many Americans don't get this, but having the world's fame and trying to get many people to like you DOES NOT COMPARE to a friend who will save you and protect you when you're down. If you want to know who your friends really were, think back to the time you were really sad/lonely and who lifted you up instead of kicking you down for it. Don't play the victim or give me the crap 'nobody.' Everybody always had *somebody.*

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    Fair enough. Do keep in mind the difference between frank honesty and unnecessary hurts, however you define those.
    This is pretty much how the conversation went down, as close to verbatim as I can get.

    Me(my opener): don't you guys think you're overreacting to this?
    Them: lol, what do you mean?
    Me: I just think you're blowing this out of proportion, you already said you were gonna deal with it
    Them(not talking to me, pretty much right after I typed that): I know people who work for that company, I'm going to get his address
    Me: like that, "im going to get his address," you yourself said he was just some 12 year old kid
    Streamer: what your problem N2Deep(me)?
    Me: you guys already said you were gonna deal with it, i just don't see why we're still talking about this
    (Banned)
    Guy: aww you deleted all of N2Deeps posts, not cool
    Streamer: he was being annoying
    Them: yeah, he was
    Mod: he was inciting problems
    (unbanned)
    Me: can someone explain to me why i was banned?
    Guy: word of advice, stop while you're ahead
    Me: i seriously just want to know what i did that was worthy of getting banned, i dont understand what i did wrong
    Mod: youre siding with the kid who DDoS'd the streamer in her chat, what did you expect
    Me: i wasn't siding with the kid, what he did was wrong and it should be dealt with, i just don't see why you guys keep talking about this, you already said you'd deal with it
    Guy: we're mad

    Pretty much ends there. I rarely try to be hurtful, I just try to tell it like it is.

    How come you always seem to explain you didn't mean to attack them by the *end* of the debate, rather than the beginning? Is that helpful?
    I usually don't recognize that they feel attacked until mid way through the argument and I usually don't call it until it's over because at that point I usually feel like we're too far into the debate to just call it quits. I'll be fair and admit it's probably a pride issue.

    Bonus question: Assuming you do talk aggressively, why do you do it? Or why would you usually do it?
    That's the thing, I never try to speak aggressively, I just speak frankly and it's perceived as aggression. I actually try to tone it down, because I've learned over the years that I'm often seen as challenging, but even after toning it down, people perceive me as aggressive. It's like the fact that I have a differing viewpoint and I'm willing to speak up about it, is viewed as a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Anyways, the streamer's channel is a more or less semi-private environment, and if you go in to "troll" or disagree with the streamer you will be looked upon poorly. This is not a environment conducive to free discussion or anything.
    The thing is, I was in there for a good 7-8 hours joking and talking with the Streamer and Mods and all was good and well. I was in there the day before too, so it wasn't like I was just some random dude that came out of nowhere with this thing.

    You need to be able to differentiate between illegal and malicious, because those are entirely different.
    I understand the difference, my point is that regardless of whether or not it was "illegal" she'd have the same response. Which means legality has nothing to with her wanting to take action, that was just an after thought used to support her cause. If she was really concerned with this because of legal reasons, malicious or not, she'd be a hypocrite for not acting on other illegal activity.

    And to clarify, I'm not trying to say what the kid did was ok, or that it shouldn't be dealt with. My main issue with those whole thing was that they were 1) overreacting("i'm gonna find his address, we're taking this to court, we're taking this to the feds" etc.) and 2) dragging something out that was already clearly dealt with from the get go. All the after talk about how the kid was some punk and how they were gonna do something to him was unnecessary. Just shut up about it and deal with him then, don't sit around talking about how you're gonna do this or do that.

    Also, I'm not trying to gain support here and I'm not here to talk about how I was wronged or whatever. The main reason I made this thread is because I consistently find myself in this situation and I want to know what the deal is. Is it a misunderstanding, is it my approach, is it really their problem or is it something I'm doing? I just want to get to the bottom of it, because I'm sick of it happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    Also, I'm not trying to gain support here and I'm not here to talk about how I was wronged or whatever. The main reason I made this thread is because I consistently find myself in this situation and I want to know what the deal is. Is it a misunderstanding, is it my approach, is it really their problem or is it something I'm doing? I just want to get to the bottom of it, because I'm sick of it happening.
    Then stop going against the grain. Don't point out fault unless the target is weak or otherwise maligned by the majority.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    Then stop going against the grain. Don't point out fault unless the target is weak or otherwise maligned by the majority.
    lmao. this is a solution.

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    theres a difference between telling what you see and trying to get people to change what they're doing. i can't really tell from this how i would have interpreted it if i was there (and the whole gamer thing is foreign to me). but maybe it comes down to whether people think you're just being honest or if they think you're trying to enforce something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    I understand the difference, my point is that regardless of whether or not it was "illegal" she'd have the same response. Which means legality has nothing to with her wanting to take action, that was just an after thought used to support her cause. If she was really concerned with this because of legal reasons, malicious or not, she'd be a hypocrite for not acting on other illegal activity.

    And to clarify, I'm not trying to say what the kid did was ok, or that it shouldn't be dealt with. My main issue with those whole thing was that they were 1) overreacting("i'm gonna find his address, we're taking this to court, we're taking this to the feds" etc.) and 2) dragging something out that was already clearly dealt with from the get go. All the after talk about how the kid was some punk and how they were gonna do something to him was unnecessary. Just shut up about it and deal with him then, don't sit around talking about how you're gonna do this or do that.
    Aren't you overreacting to getting banned for like what 10 minutes?

    I mean what the kid did is much worse, because essentially that kid banned the Streamer and whoever was in the room from the stream. Maybe they're just complaining about being banned...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Aren't you overreacting to getting banned for like what 10 minutes?

    I mean what the kid did is much worse, because essentially that kid banned the Streamer and whoever was in the room from the stream. Maybe they're just complaining about being banned...
    Yeah, I'd be overreacting if this were an isolated incident. This is something that's been happening all my life and it's costed me numerous friend and relationships. It's a deeply rooted and sentimental problem I have.

    Not to compare what I've been through to war, but think of a soldier with PTSD overreacting to a balloon pop. To most it's just a ballon, "chill out dude." To the soldier it brings back memories of traumatic experiences.

    My situation may not be that extreme, but it's the same concept.

    Also, the DDoS was speculation for one, as I stated in my OP. Second, all it did was shut down the stream for a few seconds. The chat was still up, the Streamer was still playing etc. We just couldn't see anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    Then stop going against the grain. Don't point out fault unless the target is weak or otherwise maligned by the majority.
    In my main post I already said I've been doing that for years. It's not something that I can keep maintaining.

    I'd bargain to say that's a band aid fix anyways. Doesn't really resolve anything.

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    If you're looking for non-offensive discussion, it's probably a bad idea to start with "don't you think you're overreacting?". Sure, they may have been, but that's probably along the same lines as telling an upset person they're being irrational. It's just going to piss them off.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    First I'll say, just because someone is a moderator, does not mean they are mature. We look to those in authority and positions of power to be responsible, but sometimes they can make mistakes, too. I'm not sure I agree it was right to ban you. Regardless, 10 minutes is harmless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    I gotta say, this happens pretty often with me and it's the main reason I've had so many problems with people throughout my life. I can throw down and have a good time with the best of em, but the second a debate/serious discussion comes up everyone is quick to start getting frustrated with me and I start getting ganged up on and lose friends. I seriously don't get what it is I'm doing wrong. It's not like I'm attacking anyone or being offensive, I'm just telling it how it is or how I see it.
    You are aware you come across very laid-back compared to others, though, correct? You self-type SLI, or Si-leading. If you casually express apathy or 'it doesn't matter', when someone is at the height of something emotionally, they may perceive that you're saying their EMOTIONS don't matter, which they can take offense to. There's nothing wrong with expressing your viewpoint, but I would suggest waiting until AFTER someone has calmed down, to try to reason with them, or reassure them that it'll be ok.

  28. #28
    Creepy-female

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechman View Post
    I gotta say, this happens pretty often with me and it's the main reason I've had so many problems with people throughout my life. I can throw down and have a good time with the best of em, but the second a debate/serious discussion comes up everyone is quick to start getting frustrated with me and I start getting ganged up on and lose friends. I seriously don't get what it is I'm doing wrong. It's not like I'm attacking anyone or being offensive, I'm just telling it how it is or how I see it.

    I always get pinned in these sort of situations when it comes down to discussing/debating something and I'm pretty fed up with being banned/losing friends/etc. over having an opinion of my own and not blindly agreeing with everyone else.

    I'm wondering if it might be that I try to separate myself from the situation and look at it for what it is. I try not to give in to the emotional atmosphere people try to create when something bad happens(I actually get pretty annoyed by it), so people kind of "team up" if you will and see that I'm not joining their side, so I become the enemy or something. I'm not really sure. Also, I wouldn't say that I try to force my opinion down peoples throats as much as I try to get them to see a different angle and stop being so wrapped up in their emotions.

    So can anyone tell me what the deal is?

    On a side note, this is what I see in these type of situations: Something bad happens, people start to fuel each other up and agree with each other, I don't buy into it, so they wind up ganging up on me and I basically end up fighting alone against a group of people(this actually happens, not an exaggeration). There always seems to be one or two guys on the side that don't really speak up, who at some point say that they agree with me, during or after the big debate...but usually never really stand in the line of fire like I do. And the one thing that's always bothered me, isn't that I have a group of people ganging up on me as much as it is, I've seen people who were cool with me...friends even, join the group against me. And when that happens our relationship pretty much goes to the gutter. They become friends with their new group and I'm seen as the outcast from then on out. Pretty much why I didn't have any friends in middle school and why I became so docile in my high school years/post high school years, I was tired of being singled out/ganged up on for holding a different opinion than everyone else and being willing to speak up about it, so I just stayed quiet and tried not to have one. I gotta say though, I'm tired of suppressing it, because it isn't natural for me.

    Also, does any of this have to do with the Enneagram or Socionics? Any indicator of my type? And what in the world can I do to stop this cycle aside from keeping my mouth shut?

    Edit: And to add to the argument I had with the Streamer, part of her argument was, "what he did was illegal." That's gotta be the dumbest argument I've ever heard. I'd bet my bottom dollar she's been around people who smoke weed/drink underage/etc. and did nothing about it. The only reason she wanted to do anything to this kid was because she was all worked up about him ruining her stream for a few minutes. "It's illegal" is just a lame after thought she had in order to justify her cause. I point stuff out like that all the time and it just gets people more pissed. Not sure why though, I'm just trying to see stuff through a crystal lens.

    Edit #2: What's also interesting, is I have people agree with stuff similar to what I posted above, but still get pissed when I do it to them. It's ridiculous.
    Those are some phrases that jumped out at me. (I'm not addressing the online chat issue, as you said you suspect this incident was a symptom of a larger issue, but I am filching a few phrases you used describing that debacle.)

    You seem to see emotions/emotional atmospheres as negative things to be avoided. You see people as being in touch with their negative emotions as "lame" and "worked up". You try not to "give in" when the atmosphere gets charged. Why? What happens when you "give in"? Why do you view the emotional atmosphere as something "created" and not just something that happens? Do you view it as wrong, bad, dangerous, immature, or some kind of hoax? Why do you view it as wrong, bad, dangerous, immature or some kind of hoax?

    Why do you view people, who have even previously been your friends, as "the opposition"? Do you not even in part see their side of the conflict or feel the emotions they are going through? Do you ignore the emotions of others or yourself when in a debate? Why does it sound like you have a "me against the world" outlook? Do you view the world as a hostile place? Do you view people as inherently out to get you? To stab you in the back?

    Why is divorcing the emotions of a situation from the other aspects of the situation "seeing stuff through a crystal lense"? Do you see yourself as having a monopoly on the "truth" of the situation?

    When you demonstrate to others that you are unwilling or incapable to put yourself in their shoes on a consistent basis, and that you want to be "right" all the time on an intellectual level devoid of emotions, that they're "lame" for having the experience that they're having, that's a recipe for conflict and being ostracized. You know why? Because with you blocking off all emotions and going into pure intellectual, "logical" mode, a)they have no way to reach you to communicate what they're feeling/experiencing. and b)they can't reach how YOU'RE feeling about it either because you're purposefully walling off that part of yourself. (You can intellectually punt back and forth with another person all day, but it doesn't mean you connect on an emotional level.)

    Your views of the world and people seem defensive and distrustful. You could try getting friends that wall off their emotions as much as you do, but in my experience going around all day relating to everyone on an intellectual level gets stale and cauterizing. You must want something more than that kind of interaction, too, if you keep seeking out the friendship of these people who keep getting worked up at your approach. Their friendship is something you desire, right? You have feelings for these people, right? You feel angry that they seem to be ignoring your point of view, lonely at being excluded, frustrated at being misunderstood - right? So you do have emotions.

    You seem to have a lot of beliefs about the world that don't seem to synch up with what's happening. What you're arguing for and defending isn't "the way things are", it's simply one perspective of the way things are. That you have a monopoly on the reality of the matter or are somehow more enlightened than everyone else is up for grabs, it's far more idealistic than realistic. Your ego seems to be "wrapped up" in this. So I'm interested in your experience of the world - the questions I asked in the beginning part - how has your experience shaped your unique view of the world?

    You are not going to be able to understand other people before you understand yourself, to an extent. If you're sitting on and repressing some issues that are contributing to your particular worldview, you might want to let the inner child out and do a bit of exploring with that. Emotions, when understood and channeled correctly, are another tool to widen our perspective as well as a complex, often beautiful part of life. Have you dealt with emotional abuse that has caused you to shell off? Did you grow up with people who handled their emotions poorly? I identified with some of your writing, even though I tend not to challenge people's views when a coherent gestalt doesn't materialize out of the situation. My parents often handled their emotions poorly and it lead me to distrust emotional exchanges.

    However at the same time I deeply want connection and am hurt when I don't connect with people, which is something I feel like you are experiencing. When people are very involved in their emotions I tend to take a step back and try to see if there are less charged aspects to focus on or something holistic and reasonable I can bring from the situation. However people emotionally react when they are suffering and it is not their fault. They do often need better/more informed ways to act on their emotions however. Having compassion for yourself and others emotions can go a long way. If you are interested in trying to put yourself in their shoes, I may be able to walk you through some scenarios if that would be helpful.

    Oh, and just for what it's worth - when people take pride in "telling it how it is", that's a red flag - "telling it how it is" is the stuff trashy reality tv shows are made of. People who tell it how it is don't talk about telling it how it is.
    Last edited by female; 08-25-2012 at 02:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post

    Oh, and just for what it's worth - when people take pride in "telling it how it is", that's a red flag - "telling it how it is" is the stuff trashy reality tv shows are made of. People who tell it how it is don't talk about telling it how it is.
    lolz Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!

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    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    Pro tip: Allow emotional people their emotions; then disregard them.

    Its a sign of immaturity/inexperience to take them seriously.

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    If this is a continuous pattern you may want to figure out what the difference is between how you perceive what you say and how others do. Maybe you can consult some of your friends or when you notice someone else you know well react negatively to something asking for a genuine response because you don't understand.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    I meant to click Constructive on @dolphin 's post.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Thread needs more Hatebreed.
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