View Poll Results: Your stance

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  • I'd vote Aqua!

    16 72.73%
  • I shouldn't be allowed to vote.

    6 27.27%
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Thread: Vote Aqua

  1. #1
    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Default Vote Aqua

    Now that I have returned to Finland I begun my election campaign running for the City Council of Espoo under the banner of Pirate Party. Agarina has volunteered to be my highly paid campaign manager.

    In this thread I would appreciate the following:
    -Ideas and tips for low budget campaigning
    -Conversations about politics involving my program (whatever it may be[come])
    -Observations on my appearance
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Many voters tend to respond well to somenone in a nice suit.
    IEE-Ne

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Many voters tend to respond well to somenone in a nice suit.
    Looking credible is a key factor what comes to PR but I don't have to be as formal as the candidates from the other party since the target group is mostly young critical people who have not been indoctrinated to any party. Many of our voters used to think that all politics is pretense bullshit.

    Yet I probably look enough proper most of the time. I like collar shirts and suspenders so looking formal might not be an issue.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    It's Espoo international film festival, you should make yourself visible and put out fliers.

    Also on 8/25 there is Espoo day, you should put out fliers for all events possible.

    Are Fliers possible for these things? Also don't put a picture or anything just your name, don't even need to put down party affiliation.

    Just something like Aqua for City Council.

    The goal is to get your name into the minds of people so they will pick a name when they go to the voting box. They will be more likely to pick a name that is familiar to them. Most local elections the voters barely know any of the candidates so will often just pick a name based on party/affiliation or familiarity.

    Also make a coalition with some mainstream party or strike up a conversation in public in order to form that association in the mind of voter's heads. If you are recognized by existing council members, people will take you more seriously.

    Good luck!

    http://english.espoo.fi/en-US

  5. #5
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    I suggest touching people on the upper arm constantly when you talk to them. I do it all the time and can verify the drastic increase in persuasive power this simple bodily gesture creates.
    Easy Day

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I suggest touching people on the upper arm constantly when you talk to them. I do it all the time and can verify the drastic increase in persuasive power this simple bodily gesture creates.
    I have read studies about this. I still have something to learn about this but the Finnish culture doesn't necessarily appreciate anything more than a handshake when meeting strangers. But even an accidental touch helps so I might just do that. Thank you.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I have read studies about this. I still have something to learn about this but the Finnish culture doesn't necessarily appreciate anything more than a handshake when meeting strangers. But even an accidental touch helps so I might just do that. Thank you.
    Just to be clear, we're both on the same page with knowing I was joking, yes? I was referencing this thread (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...40853-Charisma) where I express my disdain for such advice. I would feel really awful if you followed that advice on my authority. I sort of don't agree with the idea that persuasion comes from invading other's personal space. Maybe I'm just weird about people touching me and I'm projecting though. Maybe there is something to it, I mean you're right, it comes up all the time as a thing that people say you should do.
    Easy Day

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    Gravolez's Avatar
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    In countries where people don't touch each other much in everyday communication (i.e. unlike Italy) it is more effective.
    There was a study with a coin in phone booth and in what percentage people returned it when they were or were not touched on the elbow. The elbow is relatively neutral territory. Above and below the elbow is considered a bit more invasive.
    It probably helps if you can make it feel natural.

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    For extra funds, you can collect bottles and cans and sell them to the recycling plants.

  10. #10
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I need both poll options.

    Walking door-to-door is inexpensive, from what I know, though I hate when people do that to me. Bring water to drink, wear sunscreen even if it's cloudy, and maybe wear long sleeves and pants and gloves for if/when they set their dogs on you... I'd say bring treats for the dogs, but sometimes people get grumpy if you feed their pets without permission.

    I dunno, I like seeing honesty in people, and integrity. Like when people keep their word and don't try to hide from responsibility, or cover up "bad" things they've done. That's just me, though, and may not be the most politically correct way to get the votes.

    So many people want so many different things - and, yet, I suspect that really, in the end, most people want the same sorts of things.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Walking door-to-door is inexpensive, from what I know, though I hate when people do that to me. Bring water to drink, wear sunscreen even if it's cloudy, and maybe wear long sleeves and pants and gloves for if/when they set their dogs on you... I'd say bring treats for the dogs, but sometimes people get grumpy if you feed their pets without permission.
    It's somewhat slow and might be considered sort of intrusive. I think I'd prefer shopping malls or the like. I went to this rave party in foresty cave and gave around the flyers for covers to prepare their weed on. That particular flier has a rainbow, a liberty statue and a hemp leaf so people wanted to speak to me often. Somebody also bought 5 Pirate Party pocket ashtrays to give to other people so they wouldn't litter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I dunno, I like seeing honesty in people, and integrity. Like when people keep their word and don't try to hide from responsibility, or cover up "bad" things they've done. That's just me, though, and may not be the most politically correct way to get the votes.

    So many people want so many different things - and, yet, I suspect that really, in the end, most people want the same sorts of things.
    I'm pretty fucking honest and open because my target group is so liberal it usually pays off to admit a criminal record due to usage of weed and the like.
    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Just to be clear, we're both on the same page with knowing I was joking, yes?
    Yeah, I remember you making that thread but touching people is still not a bad tactic in my opinion. I might just avoid the upper arm to be careful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I'd vote you if I could ;_;

    Whatever you do, do not follow the footsteps of our friend H – being just fucking weird and visionary doesn't usually work very well in politics. Imma-handle-this-shit-dontcha-worry could go a long way. In short: less Ne, more Se. Besides, you'll probably only do it for the money anyway.
    I have a shorter budget and in order to compete with the ones that get more financial, I might have to rely on some extraordinary tactics but I can still quench the idealist to be practical. I'm not doing it for the money, but I'll promise to become corrupted with power.

    Also, wtf you back in Finland why are we not having a beer like, RIGHT FUCKING NOW? I'm growing impatient and you know that's no good with me!![/QUOTE]I'm penniless but I might contact you when I acquire some money.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Do you have a local student population who are able to vote? Students would be a good pick for you I think - young, liberal, easily mobilised, novelty factor of the Pirate Party... with students, I've seen that publicity stunts during lunch break hours work quite well and are very cheap. Additionally you could stage an informal town hall type meeting where students could ask you about your positions on various policies - if you can convince the student body that the election is important enough you should be able to do that for free Additionally - fliers, chalking up the main thoroughfares (if that's legal), seeing if you can speak briefly onstage just before/during a local band's performance (obviously convince the band that they want to vote for you first), and the internet are all cheap ways to reach your target audience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    Do you have a local student population who are able to vote? Students would be a good pick for you I think - young, liberal, easily mobilised, novelty factor of the Pirate Party... with students, I've seen that publicity stunts during lunch break hours work quite well and are very cheap. Additionally you could stage an informal town hall type meeting where students could ask you about your positions on various policies - if you can convince the student body that the election is important enough you should be able to do that for free Additionally - fliers, chalking up the main thoroughfares (if that's legal), seeing if you can speak briefly onstage just before/during a local band's performance (obviously convince the band that they want to vote for you first), and the internet are all cheap ways to reach your target audience.
    The art school I was I still probably hold a reputation in. And at least they were pretty liberal. A lunch break is definitely the best time to do that sort of thing. I might also try the local math-oriented school.

    I want to practice on my answers and clarify my platform to myself before I'm going to something more serious.
    It's hard to make an interesting platform for the city matters like "shall we build a new road through that suburbs and does it come with the traffic lights". But I usually just promise more freedom for street art and other hip stuff to the sheople.

    I'm also better at discerning the wants of an individual and then saying what they want to hear in the way they want to hear when having a concentrated approach that focuses on impacting smaller and more cohesive groups of individuals and therefore gives more room to talk bullshit without alienating someone who disagrees as I can pick their interests from the interaction. This approach is likelier to produce stronger supporters but it is true that no matter how strong they are, it's still a single vote. But I believe that my campaign might get help from these supporters if they want to convince others as well.

    So far I have done it with little or no deceit whereas I'll probably be very honest, if that term is defined by the lack of lying or false statements.

    And there's my friend's band's gig tonight and I might go to sell myself there.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 08-18-2012 at 07:04 PM.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Don't forget to tell them that you'll be a "voice for the youth", and that you'll be representing them on a council made up largely by old fogeys, and you'll be happy to raise any concerns that they may have in the future, as evidenced by your speaking to them...

    I go to a painfully political university, so I'm used to the pitches they use
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  15. #15
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Protip: Burn down the riksdagen.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    I go to a painfully political university, so I'm used to the pitches they use
    I try to avoid the cliches but there are reasons why they are so popular among aspiring politicians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Protip: Burn down the riksdagen.
    I would rather poison their coffee with LSD.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I would rather poison their coffee with LSD.
    Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    strangeling's Avatar
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    Wait, so this isn't a joke? Cool.

  19. #19
    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Wait, so this isn't a joke? Cool.
    Maybe you bought my "Don't believe my bullshit" signature at some level and realized that it can be bullshit.

    But I wouldn't make too many conclusions about this remark because..
    ..well, you know.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    It's somewhat slow and might be considered sort of intrusive.
    I totally agree. Which is why the rest of my advice in that paragraph got progressively more jocular and off-topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I'm pretty fucking honest and open because my target group is so liberal it usually pays off to admit a criminal record due to usage of weed and the like.
    Yeah, you seem like the type of person who is generally open about themselves (to a fault even, perhaps) and if you do lie it's probably just to get something you want (as opposed to habitual deceit and hiding).
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    pirate party huuh.i guess you'll have to turn green sooner or later if you want to have a future in politics.
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennifer View Post
    i guess you'll have to turn green sooner or later if you want to have a future in politics.
    Not necessarily. The pirate party might actually become the "new" green party, since the actual green party lost most of its roots and became just another one of the established parties. Many people in Germany compare the early green party with today's pirate party and that's actually not too far-fetched. They were both considered to be representing the youth and protest voters and also unprofessional political rookies.

    As you can see in one of the most recent elections (middle chart) in the German federal country with the largest population, North-Rhine Westphalia, the pirate party got 7.8%, whereas the classical liberal/neoliberal party FDP got 8.6% and the green party got 11.3%.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  23. #23
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Campaigning... without money? Aquagraph, you have a good heart, and I'd suggest staying away from politics. If you would to do something noble and influential, why don't you start your own business?

  24. #24
    Creepy-bg

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    suggesting that aqua start his own business is like pressuring Jesus to try heroin.

  25. #25
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicgerbil View Post
    suggesting that aqua start his own business is like pressuring Jesus to try heroin.
    So in this metaphor, you're saying Aqua is Jesus, and good, capitalistic entrepreneurship is the drug?

    I stand by my words. We have enough politicians vying for power, and we don't need more of them.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    So in this metaphor, you're saying Aqua is Jesus, and good, capitalistic entrepreneurship is the drug?

    I stand by my words. We have enough politicians vying for power, and we don't need more of them.
    We need more capitalism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Campaigning... without money? Aquagraph, you have a good heart, and I'd suggest staying away from politics. If you would to do something noble and influential, why don't you start your own business?
    Wow, lol. Dude, Finland isn't the USA. You don't have to be a millionaire to take part in politics.

    ..."noble" hahaha that's too much
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    So in this metaphor, you're saying Aqua is Jesus, and good, capitalistic entrepreneurship is the drug
    Lmao ur really square aren't you
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Yet I probably look enough proper most of the time. I like collar shirts and suspenders so looking formal might not be an issue.
    cute!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Small silly obvious stuff:
    1. Remember tripartite construction when making speeches. Aim to make eye contact and smile at every member of the crowd.
    2. Scaremongering is your friend. Use annonymous goons.
    3. Here there are a few votes for every voter; therefore different candidates align themselves with each other and suggest you also vote for candidates: x, y, z. This captures some floaters and lends more of an air of professional shmoozer/guy who can pull strings. Though if you aren't indpendent, I don't know how useful this is.
    4. The colour blue will make you seem more trustworthy and calm. But wear red pants.
    5. Good luck.

  31. #31
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Wow, lol. Dude, Finland isn't the USA. You don't have to be a millionaire to take part in politics.

    ..."noble" hahaha that's too much
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lmao ur really square aren't you
    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    We need more capitalism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    Let me laugh.
    Ok, I really like Pa3s' comment, maybe this can be a learning experience for me. I find it interesting that, outside of bg's comment, everyone who had a problem with my statement about politics was from another country: a German, Italian, Singaporean, and Finn.

    I was going by the assumption that politics tends to be corrupt everywhere. I felt it was part of human nature, that whenever there's a position of power, prestige, and influence, it tends to attract very greedy, controlling individuals. This may seem very negative, but in my experience with American politics, and what I've heard from others, this tends to be true. Is this not the case, elsewhere in the world?

    Pa3s' comment suggesting you don't need money to run, sort of boggles my mind a bit. You guys still vote based on principle, and not control? Like, do you guys feel your votes actually count still, when you decide to vote?

    Looking back, I should have considered Aqua was from Finland. I still, however, stand by my stance, that no honest, American young person should go into politics, as our system is currently overrun.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    I was going by the assumption that politics tends to be corrupt everywhere. I felt it was part of human nature, that whenever there's a position of power, prestige, and influence, it tends to attract very greedy, controlling individuals. This may seem very negative, but in my experience with American politics, and what I've heard from others, this tends to be true. Is this not the case, elsewhere in the world?
    Well, this is true. Honestly, this opinion didn't come out of your post (at least to me). Of course, I do know that money makes a huge difference in campaigning, but it's pretty obvious that it shouldn't. Maybe you were just referring to "the real world" and I thought you said it as a matter of fact (meaning Aqua wouldn't be successful without money anyway and a candidacy was pointless).

    As I said, it is a sad reflection that our western-styled "democracies" are actually run by the wealthiest people, even though it is a fact. And you seemingly knowing, accepting and adapting to this seemed kind of weird to me. Do you know what I mean?

    Furthermore, your (in my opinion) naive approach to "conservative" capitalism also looked odd to me. But that's maybe just because I'm biased by my own opinion.

    From how I see it, this situation (money = power) is slightly more apparent in the american political system. For instance, the larger parties in Germany are sponsored by the state so they can afford campagning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    Pa3s' comment suggesting you don't need money to run, sort of boggles my mind a bit. You guys still vote based on principle, and not control? Like, do you guys feel your votes actually count still, when you decide to vote?
    I did vote in every election until now, but I don't think it changes anything. Even not voting would go unnoticed since there is no basis for an alternative organization of society rigth now. And if vote, I vote the party that is closest to my own believes, in an ideological way.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Just curious, but are you aware of the people that comprise PP in your country and how far will you go when met with few specimen that are interested in freedom of speech but not the "right" freedom of speech?

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    We have enough politicians vying for power, and we don't need more of them.
    Yes, we call them corporatocratists.

    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    1. Remember tripartite construction when making speeches.
    What is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    2. Scaremongering is your friend. Use annonymous goons.
    Our target audience are young people who think that the current politicians are outdated so I can just about sling shit about anybody and still have only a minimal effect on alienating the potential of a individual voter.
    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    3. Here there are a few votes for every voter; therefore different candidates align themselves with each other and suggest you also vote for candidates: x, y, z. This captures some floaters and lends more of an air of professional shmoozer/guy who can pull strings. Though if you aren't indpendent, I don't know how useful this is.
    If I find some candidate I trust, I will do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Just curious, but are you aware of the people that comprise PP in your country and how far will you go when met with few specimen that are interested in freedom of speech but not the "right" freedom of speech?
    I will silence them by force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I've seen his penis late on the evening when they count the votes. He was pretty wasted.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 08-21-2012 at 12:49 AM.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Your name remains me of this song, Aqua.

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kogoro Akechi View Post
    Your name remains me of this song, Aqua.
    I would say something mean if it weren't bad PR. There are plenty of non-active threads (and websites!) you can dump all of your insightful observations into and if you need to catch my attention, please attempt to do it on my visitor page or in my introduction thread.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Maybe you bought my "Don't believe my bullshit" signature at some level and realized that it can be bullshit.

    But I wouldn't make too many conclusions about this remark because..
    ..well, you know.
    Heh.
    Awesome. Ever heard of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Har...ic_Puzzle_Ever. I swear it's unsolvable for this very reason, although people claim the solutions in the solution section are valid. I see they make assumptions in order to be valid though.

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Heh.
    Awesome. Ever heard of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Har...ic_Puzzle_Ever. I swear it's unsolvable for this very reason, although people claim the solutions in the solution section are valid. I see they make assumptions in order to be valid though.
    Ouch, made my head hurt.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    squirreltual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    What is that?

    Basically the rule of three. Three parts to sentence (or sections to a speech). Maximises impact, memorability and satifisfaction. Marry this with a nice gesticulation for every beat in the sentence, and you've just induced hypnosis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendiatris


    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I would say something mean if it weren't bad PR.
    Awww. You mean that isn't your campaign song?! Think about it... He enters the stage through the ethereal haze of a smoke machine, a thousand golden leaves of fireworks shower down from the sky, conservatives (or their Finnish equivalent) shuffle nervously.

    "Let the sun shine, let the sunshine in..."

    Then, as he raises his arms, a dozen white doves emerge from his sleeves in perfect synchronicity, each with a tiny pink ribbon trailing, bearing the words: vote wine, vote women, vote aqua... End scene

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Awww. You mean that isn't your campaign song?! Think about it... He enters the stage through the ethereal haze of a smoke machine, a thousand golden leaves of fireworks shower down from the sky, conservatives (or their Finnish equivalent) shuffle nervously.

    "Let the sun shine, let the sunshine in..."

    Then, as he raises his arms, a dozen white doves emerge from his sleeves in perfect synchronicity, each with a tiny pink ribbon trailing, bearing the words: vote wine, vote women, vote aqua... End scene
    I think after a show like that not just the conservatives but also the common reserved folk of Finland had gotten too much clamour and would be shuffling away fast, but thanks for that visual image, I'll save it when I become a dictator.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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