I would like to hear your opinions on this guys' type

[heliantha]

hi there;

I rather new to socionics, I have only been interested in the theory for the last few weeks... but I certainly find it more logical the the MTBI theory.
Anyway the reason I registered here is that I really want to know the type of a former friend of mine. We met playing an MMOPRG and at first we liked each other but it all went downhill from there.. we are no longer talking to each other, which I must admit is kind of a relief.
Still, from time to time I find myself analyzing the friendship we had, wondering what the hell went so wrong, and of course, knowing his type might be helpful in understanding it

the only thing I'm sure about, concerning his type, is that he must be an F... I really can't imagine him beeing a T. Also, I used to believe that he is an introvert, given that he spended lots of his time playing an MMOPRG, but I'm not so sure about that any more - he might just be a really shy extravert.

so, I would like to hear your opinions on him:

[Rocky]

MMOPRG

lol- INTJ.

Anyway, that's the best we can do from the information given.

[oyburger]

MMOPRG

lol- INTJ.

Anyway, that's the best we can do from the information given.

I didn't even know what that meant until I looked it up. Does the fact that I've never engaged in that mean that I'm not INTj?

[Kristiina]

heliantha, I think it would help if you said what type you are.

Right now, this guy just looks extremely Finnish.

[heliantha]

MMOPRG

lol- INTJ.

Anyway, that's the best we can do from the information given.

So I was going to type a sarcastic remark about stereotyping people is dumb but then I realized that you're actually right Yeah I should have given you some more information, sorry about that. I wrote some stuff about him and the relationship we had; see below.

heliantha, I think it would help if you said what type you are.

Right now, this guy just looks extremely Finnish.

Finnish, huh? I don't know any people from Finland. Do they all have long hair, or what? Anyway, me and 'guy' are both from Austria.

The main problem here is that I don't really know my type. With MTBI tests, I always test as INXP; In socionics I test as INXj.
But I don't really trust tests, an I think an better way to determine my type is to analyze my relationships with different people, which is exactely why I want to know this guys type.
I'm pretty sure that I'm an introvert, and I believe that I'm more thinking than feeling. I am, however, really unsure about my N-ness.

Anyway, here is a bit of info about the guy:

He is 25 und studies politics. He is really enthusiastic about it too, I've never met anyone who likes talking about politics that much. He is a communist, and the best method to get him upset is telling him that you don't think communism is, like, the greatest thing ever and that it would immediately solve all of the world's problems if there were more communist countries.

He also has lots of issues, for example, he often calls himself a 'male feminist'.
In the MMOPRG we both played - World of Warcraft - he always got very angry because the female toons are dressed in very revealing clothes, and he actually wrote a few complaints to the customer service team about that.
Then he expected me to do the same thing. When I told him I didn’t really mind the sexy female toons because the game is obviously aimed at male customers and that I knew that when I bought the game and if it was a problem I wouldn't have bought it at all, he totally couldn't believe that I, as a woman, didn't appreciate his efforts.

His second big passion is music. When he doesn't play WoW, he loves to smoke weed and listen to his favourite songs. He would often tell me how the music managed to influence his moods, how he would become happy or sad or even angry when he listened to special songs and how much it meant to him.
He also plays the guitar himself and generally knows a lot about music. Unfortunately, he is somewhat discriminating against people who don't 100% agree with his taste.

He is also a bit messy and generally has a very poor concept of time. For example, he sometimes missed real life appointments because he was too busy playing WoW.

For me, the biggest problem in our friendship was that I could never ever show it if my point of view was different from his. I like discussing, and I don't have a problem if someone has a different opinion, as long as their arguments are valid and presented in a civilized manner.
But whenever I disagreed with him, no matter how insignificant and small our disagreement seemed to me, he became incredibly upset. Sometimes he wouldn't talk to me for a while, sometimes he would call me insensitive and mean.
For example, once he was explaining his political views to me, but he did so in a very discriminating manner, calling everyone who was not a communist stupid. So I made a rather negative remark about communism. The funny thing is that I didn't really believe what I said; I just wanted him to defend his opinion for a change, instead of trashing everyone else's opinion. He then called me stupid and uncool and, ahem 'bourgeoise'. When tried to point out that calling someone uncool is not really a valid way to defend one's point of view he nearly started crying and told me that I obviously hated him and how he never felt validated by me.

Now the problem is that I'm somewhat paranoid about hurting the feelings of others, because I can easily imagine how it would be to be hurt myself, and I wouldn't want to make anyone feel miserable. But I have a history of just not realizing when I'm actually hurting someone.
As a result of this, whenever I do realize that someone is hurt I try to be extra nice and extra understanding and automatically assume that it's all my fault. And since it was so super easy to hurt him I ended up feeling guilty most of the time. I tried to avoid discussing topics where I thought we might disagree, however sometimes he would bring up such a topic, and then I was left with two options: I could either tell him my honest opinion, upset him and feel guilty about it or I could lie and pretend to agree with him, and then hating myself because I hate being dishonest.

As far as I know the biggest problem for him was something completely different. He always felt that I didn’t open up to him enough, that I didn’t talk about my feelings enough. We discussed this several times, and I tried to explain to him that I'm a really reserved person and that talking about my own feelings is something I dislike. But he always insisted that 'a true friend would tell me more about how they feel', and how much I hurt him by not showing my emotions.
Sometimes he also wanted to discuss stuff that made me feel extremely uncomfortable, for example he once wanted me to describe how it feels when I have my period. He told me how beautiful it must be for a woman to have this experience (and childbearing in general), and he was very disappointed when I flat out refused to talk about that subject.

The friendship with him started making me feel las if I was being drained of all energy, and I tried to avoid him. He on the other hand kept telling me how much he liked me and what a great person I was, yet at the same time always whining about me not opening up enough, and not showing enough interest in what he said.
When we finally 'broke up', I felt nothing but relief. To my own surprise, I dind't miss him at all (I had thought I would miss him, after all, our friendship had its ups as well), and I never tried making up with him.

[Slacker]

He sounds facinating, and not in a good way. LOL

So is he gay or is he under some delusion that if he asks women about menstration he'll get laid?

Anyway, lots of plus weak could = ESFj?

[heliantha]

He sounds facinating, and not in a good way. LOL

So is he gay or is he under some delusion that if he asks women about menstration he'll get laid?

Anyway, lots of plus weak could = ESFj?

No, he was neither gay, nor did he have problems getting laid. He actually had a girlfriend.
Also, when I first met him, he didn't come across as whiney and hypersensitive. My first impression was more along the lines of: easy going, intelligent-yet-sensitive guy with a bit of an artsy touch.

[Kristiina]

I got a weird similarity vibe with my ISTp ex. He was never that bad though. And I missed him a lot when we broke up. He had a way of making me feel really good about myself when he was in the mood. The problems in our relationship were similar (although less intense). And some of the behavior was similar. Plus many of the details.

I could see this guy as an ISTp, but I don't really see you as an ENTj (just from the way you write). Hypothetically, you could be ISFp, but I'm not getting that feeling from your post...

Mainly intuitively - I think that guy is ISTp and you are INFp. You would have super-ego relations.

[Slacker]

You think an ISTp would talk about how happy and sad he got when listening to various songs?

My husband isn't repulsed by menstruation, but I can't imagine him ever ever ever talking about it like that. Way too touchy-feely.

I think this guy sounds way too to be ISTp.

Messy and poor concept of time too. Doesn't sound ISTp to me.

[Kristiina]

You think an ISTp would talk about how happy and sad he got when listening to various songs?

My husband isn't repulsed by menstruation, but I can't imagine him ever ever ever talking about it like that. Way too touchy-feely.

I think this guy sounds way too to be ISTp.

Messy and poor concept of time too. Doesn't sound ISTp to me.

Mhh... You could be right. ISFp? :wink:
I wonder if ISTps can have an over-reactive Fe. (strongly out of control.)

[Slacker]

I thought maybe ISFp too. ESFj came to mind right away because of my very political mother-in-law.

[oyburger]

I don't know about his type, but it sounds like he's trying very hard to fit into certain constructions he's built up of a personality that he would like to be. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it just seems from your description that he's not being very true to who he really is.
I know that this isn't that helpful, but that's really the only impression I got.

[Gilly]

I might be alone on this one, but I think he shares some kind of look with McNew. I'm gonna go with Delta NF.

[Joy]

I think he looks like a delta NF as well.

[Expat]

The guy has huge over and over preference, so Alpha or Beta.

But the only Beta I can see him as possibly being is INFp, and even that doesn't make sense as an INFp would hardly call "stupid" those who disagreed with him. An ISTj or ESTp would, but hardly complain in a whiny manner about someone not showing their feelings.

Not ESFj or ISFp - - this guy has , but as dual-seeking. He wants someone to throw at him. An ESFj would hardly be so obtuse as to the emotional effect he's having on others.

He's probably INTj intuitive subtype. What made heliantha think of him as a feeler is the PoLR and the resemblance to INFj; but he's an INTj, no way an INFj.

heliantha sounds to me as INTp or ENTj.

[Slacker]

Is VI a better indicator of type than what functions he seems to use?





But I don't think they look alike anyway in the ways that seem like they'd be useful for VI - the looks in their eyes and their facial expressions.

[Joy]

Is VI a better indicator of type than what functions he seems to use?

absolutely not

[heliantha]

Hm I'm really surprised that so many of you believe he's a T.
The reason why I came to believe the he can't possibly be T is that I can for the life of me not imagine anyone with a strong T breaking down and crying just because I challenged their political beliefs, that makes absolutely no sense to me. The only way I can see this happen is if the person in question is very very insecure about their intelligence.

Like, he strongly believes in communism without any logical reason. But because he realises that nobody will ever take him serious when he just runs around saying 'I believe....' he tries to crush any differing opinion by saying things like 'Only a very stupid and narrowminded person whould say that'. But he knows that when being pressured, he wont be able to logically back up what he says. So when his beliefs are attacked, he tries to immediately end the discussion by becoming all teary-eyed...
Or maybe not. It's just a possibility

I don't know about his type, but it sounds like he's trying very hard to fit into certain constructions he's built up of a personality that he would like to be. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it just seems from your description that he's not being very true to who he really is.
I know that this isn't that helpful, but that's really the only impression I got.

This could very well be true. I have occasionally thought the same thing myself.

[Expat]

Hm I'm really surprised that so many of you believe he's a T.
The reason why I came to believe the he can't possibly be T is that I can for the life of me not imagine anyone with a strong T breaking down and crying just because I challenged their political beliefs, that makes absolutely no sense to me. The only way I can see this happen is if the person in question is very very insecure about their intelligence.

Well that doesn't sound typical of any type, so it is difficult to say what it means.

It could mean that is his PoLR which would mean ENFp or ESFp. But I can't see him as any of these types either. Or as hidden agenda, so ISFp or INFp. But the problem I see with that is that the image I got from him is of someone who talks about politics etc a lot, so rather pushy about his beliefs, which doesn't sound like PoLR or hidden agenda.

Like, he strongly believes in communism without any logical reason.

Many thinkers believe in religion without any logical reason -- that's why I think you are a type. You are thinking that his makes no sense, which is rather common. His thinks that your is stupid for not seeing "the obvious". Happens all the time.

But because he realises that nobody will ever take him serious when he just runs around saying 'I believe....' he tries to crush any differing opinion by saying things like 'Only a very stupid and narrowminded person whould say that'. But he knows that when being pressured, he wont be able to logically back up what he says. So when his beliefs are attacked, he tries to immediately end the discussion by becoming all teary-eyed...
Or maybe not. It's just a possibility .

This sounds like a quasi-Freudian interpretation, but for socionics, it makes little sense. He could be someone with weak who's over-compensating, but in that case he's so messed up and stressed that socionics is not of much help.

I don't know about his type, but it sounds like he's trying very hard to fit into certain constructions he's built up of a personality that he would like to be. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it just seems from your description that he's not being very true to who he really is.
I know that this isn't that helpful, but that's really the only impression I got.

This could very well be true. I have occasionally thought the same thing myself.

*shrugs* ok, if we want to go down that path, he could be a very stressed Enneagram 2 who's behaving like a fake 8, so perhaps indeed ESFj who's over-focusing on . Or a 7 behaving like a 1, so perhaps ENFp.

[Phaedrus]

From the description of the mysterious guy I have trouble seeing him as a T type (but the information is not conclusive). I would think that NF is possible, and from V.I. I might think INFj, which I am not sure about, but his face look reminds me of an INFj female I know. The INFj hypothesis is also, I think, possible in relation to his behaviour.

[Expat]

The problem with INFj is his calling non-believers in communism "stupid".

A type would be much more likely to say "you are selfish" or "you don't care about the poor" than "you are stupid", especially when arguing with a logical type as heliantha seems to be.

Their role function might make them have a self-image of being logical, but when really upset I think they would fall back into arguments.

[oyburger]

The reason why I came to believe the he can't possibly be T is that I can for the life of me not imagine anyone with a strong T breaking down and crying just because I challenged their political beliefs, that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Usually when someone acts like this it's because they are insecure in the beliefs that they're trying to project, just like you said. If someone is confident and passionate about their belief in something, they'll want to debate and argue all day to defend it.

I don't think that this means he's a T with problems though. I really think he's an F. I couldn't see him as an INFj, but certainly some sort if NF.