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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Splitoff from Delta lounge

    I have a question, which function are you using in the bottom post? What are you doing in essence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Black rice is weird. The texture is very different; it's like a skin with mushy stuff inside.
    I'll make it really simple for you. Black rice is an object, unless you and I have gone insane, which we haven't yet. You are describing what of the object? It's what? What? Properties? YES. Now you see why I type you SEE?

    (static) perceives outward sensory data projected by objects. Unless objects change their appearance significantly, the impression will not change.

    Nice post Ryene, nice post...that is Fi, because I'm judging it. Heehee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I have a question, which function are you using in the bottom post? What are you doing in essence?



    I'll make it really simple for you. Black rice is an object, unless you and I have gone insane, which we haven't yet. You are describing what of the object? It's what? What? Properties? YES. Now you see why I type you SEE?

    (static) perceives outward sensory data projected by objects. Unless objects change their appearance significantly, the impression will not change.

    Nice post Ryene, nice post...that is Fi, because I'm judging it. Heehee.
    [deleted reasoning attempt]
    i have reported this post as part of Maritsa's trolling campaign against Ryene, along with the related trolling thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin.../40526-texture
    Last edited by anndelise; 08-06-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I'll make it really simple for you. Black rice is an object, unless you and I have gone insane, which we haven't yet. You are describing what of the object? It's what? What? Properties? YES. Now you see why I type you SEE?

    (static) perceives outward sensory data projected by objects. Unless objects change their appearance significantly, the impression will not change.
    I have a family of six. Three Deltas, two Alphas, and a Beta. The Si-valuers may discuss whether a noodle tastes springy or whether something smells purple and the beta just thinks it dumb. s consider what the environment is whereas s consider their personal experience concerning the environment.

    Ryene stated that black rice was weird. "Weird" is a word like "short" or "flat;" its meaning varies depending on who uses it and what they are comparing it to. Then Ryene compared the texture of the rice to other textures she was familiar with. That sure seems Si-valuing to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    [deleted reasoning attempt]
    i have reported this post as part of Maritsa's trolling campaign against Ryene, along with the related trolling thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin.../40526-texture
    I don't think the other thread was specifically targeting me; it was started some time ago, and I made the choice to post in it. Her knowledge is questionable, but we don't usually punish people for that around here.

    Concerning this thread: I don't particularly like her, and her misdirected type bludgeoning is definitely irritating. I do wish she would cut it out, but it's not really something I would report her for. At least she's not following me around the forum to do it. If you are sufficiently offended by her actions, then I won't tell you what you can or can't do about it.

    @UDP If you want to try black rice without buying a ton of it, I suggest this.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I don't think the other thread was specifically targeting me; it was started some time ago, and I made the choice to post in it. Her knowledge is questionable, but we don't usually punish people for that around here.

    Concerning this thread: I don't particularly like her, and her misdirected type bludgeoning is definitely irritating. I do wish she would cut it out, but it's not really something I would report her for. At least she's not following me around the forum to do it. If you are sufficiently offended by her actions, then I won't tell you what you can or can't do about it.

    @UDP If you want to try black rice without buying a ton of it, I suggest this.
    It's not just you she targets. Hkkmr won't do anything unless he "gets enough complaints". Basically, I'm sick of every time I finally decide to visit the forum, that the first things I seem to see are her trolling someone. And since trying to reason with her never works, maybe complaining might get her to stop trolling deltans.

    Worse still is when, for example, she's gone on and on about how she doesn,t even notice objects, then recently describes how great of an interior designer she is and how her friend seeks her help for shopping for furniture and such, and then herself goes into detail about the consistency of rices. If one of the people she trolls describes similar, they are Se ego. If she does it, she's delta nf. She twists her 'reasonings' to suit her trollings. And basically, I find her constant trollings of deltans to be disgusting all around.
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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    It's not just you she targets. Hkkmr won't do anything unless he "gets enough complaints". Basically, I'm sick of every time I finally decide to visit the forum, that the first things I seem to see are her trolling someone. And since trying to reason with her never works, maybe complaining might get her to stop trolling deltans.
    OK.

    Worse still is when, for example, she's gone on and on about how she doesn,t even notice objects, then recently describes how great of an interior designer she is and how her friend seeks her help for shopping for furniture and such, and then herself goes into detail about the consistency of rices. If one of the people she trolls describes similar, they are Se ego. If she does it, she's delta nf.
    Hm, I missed that. Good point, though.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    [deleted reasoning attempt]
    i have reported this post as part of Maritsa's trolling campaign against Ryene, along with the related trolling thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin.../40526-texture
    Cries because she isn't IEE. And because she doesn't fit the IEE description in a lot of ways. And, because she thinks the only valid socionics is the one made up by her own rules. Nope. Go do what you want.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I have a family of six. Three Deltas, two Alphas, and a Beta. The Si-valuers may discuss whether a noodle tastes springy or whether something smells purple and the beta just thinks it dumb. s consider what the environment is whereas s consider their personal experience concerning the environment.

    Ryene stated that black rice was weird. "Weird" is a word like "short" or "flat;" its meaning varies depending on who uses it and what they are comparing it to. Then Ryene compared the texture of the rice to other textures she was familiar with. That sure seems Si-valuing to me.
    You are describing the properties of an object.

    I explained it very simply. Rice = object
    properties = it's texture, it's color, it's shape size.

    These are close to exact descriptions

    If I were to describe black rice, I would say something like, "I don't like it" (Fi value judgement), which she doesn't. And then I would say something like I like other options to my black rice. Then I would go on to say something like "I don't like it [again stating my personal sentiments] because it feels to me as though I'm eating worms."

    I'm not describing the properties of worms, I'm simply stating that it tastes in a way familiar to something which produces awkward sensations.

    Her post doesn't have any personal sentiments of Fi first, so how can she be Fi base?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Her post doesn't have any personal sentiments of Fi first, so how can she be Fi base?


    You can't expect every post from an Fi to contain something Fi-related! It's an introverted function!
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ta-Abbreviated


    From what I understand of Se/Si viewpoints:
    Se: "This cookie is rough, so that one is better."
    Si: "This cookie is a little sandpapery, and that one is gooey like a cinnamon roll. I'm not in the mood for a cinnamon roll, so I'll eat this one."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Wow, sometimes this forum feels like I just walked into the home of a really scrappy, fighting family... And I feel bad seeing the hard feelings, especially between people I like. @anndelise, I have no reason to think you are not IEE as you say, except for the fact that Marista gets you so angry! And my INFJ-mirror friends never make me feel angry. Occasionally misunderstood on an issue, but I am unbothered by it. And its not because I take everything easy - there are other types who do consistently bother me. But I do see how being mistyped is a legitimate cause annoyance.

    Clearly, you are an "E" type because you are so outspoken about what bothers you, and also clearly you are a "P" type because it seems, with Marista, its "J"-related things she does that get under your skin. Specifically, her being so sure of what she concluded. Realize that J-types are decisive and are more likely than "P" types to make rash judgements and stick to them. I am not saying Marista has done that here. But if you feel she has, it seem you could chalk it up to that. I understand how an affront to your own identity can be so infuriating, and I am thinking you could simply PM Marista, or just say it on a thread, "I am happy/confident with how I have typed myself. Your questioning it really bothers me. Would you please not do it anymore?"

    And that leads me to ask, @Marista Darmandzhyan, since you have the sensitivity of an INFJ -- you must see how your insisting that Anndelise is a SEE annoys her to no end, and disrupts her peace, so, even if you have this theory she is a SEE, why don't you just back it off with her, since its clear she does not like you questioning her type? I do see how typing is an interest/talent which you put more thought into than a portion of others here do, so I understand. If you want to share your reasoning on your clues about specific typing here, in the case of @anndelise and any others that might be offended, then you could PM your observations/conclusions to one or two forum friends with a shared particular-interest in typing people - rather than post it on the board where Anndelise has to read it - and then must publicly defend herself, again.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 08-06-2012 at 05:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    And, because she thinks the only valid socionics is the one made up by her own rules. Nope. Go do what you want.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    I'm sorry, Eliza, but if you looked at what I was complaining about, it had to do with Maritsa trolling Ryene again. But it's not just her trolling Ryene that angers me, it's her trolling other deltans (including myself). She has run off other members, and tries to run off more (including myself). As for myself, I have allowed a few times her vitriol to push me away from the forum and friends I have here, and yes, that angers me too. But it's not to do with her pathetic attempts at retyping me, those are just laughable.
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    <Beta Alarm> It's interesting how Maritsa managed to separate the concept of an object from its physical qualities and/or perceived attributes. </Beta Alarm>
    Reason is a whore.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Thanks for explaining, @anndelise. Now I wonder what Marista has to say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Thanks for explaining, @anndelise. Now I wonder what Marista has to say?
    That rice is an object.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Thank you.

    We were going to try not to challenge anyones type here.
    Two years ago in this thread we more or less agreed that trying to argue at people or challenge their types in The Delta Lounge was something we didn't want. Even Maritsa herself was on board.

    I'd like to go back to those days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    And my INFJ-mirror friends never make me feel angry. Occasionally misunderstood on an issue, but I am unbothered by it.
    She does get me very angry and it's because I don't type her IEE; and because of that, she is constantly bottle necking me, in every post and thread I open, trying to challenge me directly to admit what I say is rather Ne instead of Se, because she wants me to say things that will affirm her self typing as IEE, which I won't because that would be lying and presenting inaccurate and incorrect information. whether you have a reason to believe that or not is you personal opinion of that, but for me and my comfort level, it's very uncomfortable being around her. It's very comfortable being around you so go figure.


    You may notice that I've placed her on ignore and I've done this because I really don't care what she says in any post, but she picks on my posts which sends me messages that she's responded to them and often she does it's always with the intent to challenge me.

    Even if I don't address her by my comments, she addresses me in a challenging sort of way. i could say "hay, I don't care what you want to be." but that would just annoy her more. She wants to supervise everything I write and say.

    Eliza, just marry me and move in with me I'll be a very happy woman.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I wish there was a function that can completely block people from reading your posts and I know who I would use that function against.

    I'll say it right now

    Ann
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    @anndelise - I have my own beginnings of a theory about your type (other than IEE) which I do not come at by extensive knowledge, but intuition (based some on knowledge)... I would share it with you here, or I can PM it... whichever you want!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    @anndelise - I have my own beginnings of a theory about your type (other than IEE) which I do not come at by extensive knowledge, but intuition (based some on knowledge)... I would share it with you here, or I can PM it... whichever you want!
    If your theory has anything to do with how Maritsa and I get along, I request that you first read in this thread
    pages 91-92 which occurred 1 year ago when Maritsa and I were getting along ok and she had 'confirmed' me as Ne subtype NeFi.

    Then, read pg 97 for an example of Maritsa's attitudes and actions towards one of the most accepted EII on this forum, Minde. I believe it starts with post #3863.

    If you still want to base your theory of my type using my interactions with Maritsa, then so be it. I'm just asking that you inform yourself beyond what she herself claims about herself and others.

    And No, I am NOT NeTi.

    -----

    In accordance with the spirit of this thread, where this is supposed to be a thread where Deltas can relax and chitchat with each other rather than having to defend typings, etc. further discussions regarding Maritsa and/or my type can be done through PM, or I can set up a blog post for it. Let me know which you would choose, @Eliza Thomason.
    Last edited by anndelise; 08-07-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Two years ago in this thread we more or less agreed that trying to argue at people or challenge their types in The Delta Lounge was something we didn't want. Even Maritsa herself was on board.

    I'd like to go back to those days.
    I apologize UDP. I too would like to be able to come here and relax and chitchat.
    I will see if I can have the most recent stuff split off from this thread.
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    If your theory has anything to do with how Maritsa and I get along, I request that you first read in this thread
    pages 91-92 which occurred 1 year ago when Maritsa and I were getting along ok and she had 'confirmed' me as Ne subtype NeFi.

    Then, read pg 97 for an example of Maritsa's attitudes and actions towards one of the most accepted EII on this forum, Minde.

    If you still want to base your theory of my type using my interactions with Maritsa, then so be it. I'm just asking that you inform yourself beyond what she herself claims about herself and others.
    Only part of it is how you get on with Marista. The rest is other things, mostly to do with how you relate to someone else I know whose type I am sure of. Things not having to do with your interaction with Marista. And that interaction is what got me focused on the topic of your type (Marista's INFJ being not in question to me). Because the strife between you stresses me, and I like to try to figure that stuff out (conflict-resolution for my mind, I guess). That's the "Psychologist" part of my type, maybe.

    But yes, I would not say a thing till I read those pages you refer to, and then, should I say my "theory" here, or PM it first? (and I won't post if you don't want). I will go with what you say!

    And I will not take the least offense if you think I am completely misguided in my conclusions! I am not so married to my ideas, and the "P" in me stays open to "I could be wrong".

    I don't know you well enough to know if discussion of your type just annoys you, or if its just Marista's discussion of your type that annoys you. That's why I offer to PM it.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    And No, I am NOT NeTi.
    Absolutely not. You and Phthalate, not the same type at all!

    _________________

    Oops, I just read the rest of your post. Yes, I like the blog post idea, because interested others (should not be Marista, though, because of the strife!) can post their opinions of my opinion. (Which might well be that its too lame...) PM is okay too.

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    I have requested a split so that the Delta Lounge may return to being a place of relaxation and enjoyment. But I was not aware of your post at the time I made the request. When the split occurs, if these two posts are not part of it, then please repost to the new thread, and delete it from this thread. Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Oops, I just read the rest of your post. Yes, I like the blog post idea, because interested others (should not be Marista, though, because of the strife!) can post their opinions of my opinion. (Which might well be that its too lame...) PM is okay too.
    I won't post there. I'm gonna go eat and try to take some Si time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Even if I don't address her by my comments, she addresses me in a challenging sort of way. i could say "hay, I don't care what you want to be." but that would just annoy her more. She wants to supervise everything I write and say.
    Let's test this. You say "hey I don't care what you want to be", and - if you want, to be fair, other people won't tell you what you are.

    Nobody tells each other what they are - how about that?

    Eliza, just marry me and move in with me I'll be a very happy woman.
    Maybe the delta you want is really another woman - that's ok, too. We'll all be respectful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post


    Maybe the delta you want is really another woman - that's ok, too. We'll all be respectful.
    Tease

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I have requested a split so that the Delta Lounge may return to being a place of relaxation and enjoyment. But I was not aware of your post at the time I made the request. When the split occurs, if these two posts are not part of it, then please repost to the new thread, and delete it from this thread. Thank you.
    Well post here if there is a split thread, or if you are going with the blog post you opened, so I know where to write. At any rate, I read the pages 91-92 and 97. Thanks for the background! Wow, that you and Marista wrote so kind to each other, then, and that just makes it even sadder that there is strife now.

    The pg.97 strife between Minde and Marista - that was the first I saw of it and I cannot guess where that is rooted from. And they have the same types! Whatever for that strife, as, I have no idea the history of Minde and Marista. And I am P, it would take a lot more info for me to make a judgment so I just won't on that...(and I am not asking for more info! Too much to think about right now)

    Although, as to that, I will say, both my INTJ friends do in fact rise up in sharp offense at times. One in particularly the one I wrote of here just now who is from out-of-town, and most often her offense is at misunderstanding something I said; I had meant no offense, but offense was taken, severely. But we both talk it out. Its hard if I want to be understood better in these situations, because sometimes its a sticking point where she can't understand me, and I just explain myself best I can and let it go. These are not serious or frequent. Very rare in a relationship that is primarily harmony and good will.

    I respect my INFJ friend for being so instantly in touch of her feelings that she can even react so sharply and fast. My other INFJ freind, close, who lives near me, does the same thing but the vast majority of the time she is offended by others, like her Conflictor husband. Rarely me, and if she does not like something I say or its not accurate, she lets me know quickly and clearly, but its very rare for all the time we talk.

    I respect INFJs for the ability to know and name their own feelings so instantly. For me, its different. Something happens, and all I know is I feel bad/uncomfortable, and I can't name what has thrown off my equilibrium. So I don't address it - I will almost never say I am offended at the time I am offended - I need to be alone and think it out awhile before I can uncover what it is that hurt or offended me. Then I usually work it out with myself alone! Only if I feel it wil benefit the other person personally (personal growth) or my relationship with that person will I let them know what they did that offended me. But usually I let it go. Or I decide, "Next time, if they say something similar, I will say __"

    So, knowing my INFJ freinds well, that two INFJs would have sharp hurt-feeling reactions with each other and speak their minds about it to each other is not so unusual. Between two ENFPs, such an interaction would be much, much more unusual I'd say.

    More things you wrote confirmed my little type theory on you. Its not really a theory - just impressions I have gathered that could be a wrong conclusion. However to type it out this must wait till another time. I am up way, way too late. I need to be up early...but I will get back to this, if not tomorrow then the next day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I respect INFJs for the ability to know and name their own feelings so instantly. For me, its different. Something happens, and all I know is I feel bad/uncomfortable, and I can't name what has thrown off my equilibrium. So I don't address it - I will almost never say I am offended at the time I am offended - I need to be alone and think it out awhile before I can uncover what it is that hurt or offended me. Then I usually work it out with myself alone! Only if I feel it wil benefit the other person personally (personal growth) or my relationship with that person will I let them know what they did that offended me. But usually I let it go. Or I decide, "Next time, if they say something similar, I will say __"
    I'm the same way...as you may have observed about how I stated my feelings about how I feel about Ann and you.

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    @Eliza Thomason

    Because the strife between you stresses me, and I like to try to figure that stuff out (conflict-resolution for my mind, I guess). That's the "Psychologist" part of my type, maybe.
    And, though I doubt you will believe it, the strife she causes stresses me out. Maritsa was having lots of conflicts with individuals on the forum long before I knew she existed. When I first met her, I too spent time trying to figure out why she acted the way she did towards particular people. I too had wanted to help her resolve the conflicts she kept having with other deltans. Perhaps your E2ness will help you reach where my E6ness could not. I wish you luck with that...for her sake.

    ----
    I don't know you well enough to know if discussion of your type just annoys you, or if its just Marista's discussion of your type that annoys you. That's why I offer to PM it.
    Question: if you don't know me well enough to know what annoys me regarding retypings, then how can you feel that you know me well enough to tell me what's going on in my head?

    ----
    I respect INFJs for the ability to know and name their own feelings so instantly. For me, its different. Something happens, and all I know is I feel bad/uncomfortable, and I can't name what has thrown off my equilibrium. So I don't address it - I will almost never say I am offended at the time I am offended - I need to be alone and think it out awhile before I can uncover what it is that hurt or offended me. Then I usually work it out with myself alone! Only if I feel it wil benefit the other person personally (personal growth) or my relationship with that person will I let them know what they did that offended me. But usually I let it go. Or I decide, "Next time, if they say something similar, I will say __"
    For myself, I admit that I am an emotional reactive person. The proper term would be Neurotic. Usually I'm reacting to something before I even know what I'm reacting to. But that initial emotion comes in short bursts and then usually dissipates enough for me to review what was going on when it happened so that I can either resolve what was happening, or find a way to prevent it from happening again.

    If the issue is a little too complex and requires more thought put into it, then I prefer to go for a nice long walk as I figure it out. Walking calms my nerves and reduces the 'jumpiness' of ideas. It's not uncommon for my neighbors to see me walking around the block ranting and raving to myself, lol. Sometimes I ask for someone else's opinions about what they saw. I try to see the situation through their eyes, as I try to find out if there's information I may be missing, or something I may have overlooked. In this case, it is more helpful to either talk with someone who was there to witness it themself, or describe the event as objective as I can. Regarding online communications, it's easier to just ask the person to read what happened and then ask them questions about what they perceive was happening. Basically, I want to know as much as I can about the situation before I figure out what might have been happening, and ways to maybe resolve or prevent it from happening again.

    Usually it comes down to misunderstandings on one or both sides. If I missed or misunderstood something, I let them know. If I feel they missed or misunderstood something, then I will try to clarify it if I feel it is important enough. If clarification isn't important enough, then I'll usually resume as if the misunderstanding never happened.

    However, I do not roll over and allow someone to 'misunderstand' over and over again. In particular, I do not like when someone twists something I said/did into something I didn't say/do...or worse...would likely never say/do. I do not like it when people project false motivations and intentions onto me. And if they do it over and over and over again, then I consider it abusive and will respond accordingly. (Nor do I like discovering myself doing that to someone else, and I will recriminate myself for it, and usually remove myself from the situation until I feel stable again.)

    I am rather slow to make judgments or draw firm conclusions. I prefer to discuss various ways of looking at a situation, and various approaches to it. Often I can easily see conflicting povs, without determining either as 'right' or 'wrong'. This has been benficial when helping someone else through their own situation/issue. I help them look at it in different ways, more helpful ways. But I admit that I find it difficult to deal with those persons who just are not interested in resolving their difficulties, or those who would prefer to blame everyone else without accepting their own responsibility for what's happening. I refuse to cater to this mentality.

    And finally, I do not like being treated as a label. Whether that label be "Bipolar" or "NeFi" or even "E6". I am a person. Those labels happen to describe aspects of myself and what I deal with, but they are far from the totallity of who I am. Just as whatever descriptive categorizations might apply to you are only a portion of who/what you are...or anyone else.

    Now, I admit that I have a 6 year history of getting caught up in this Ti theory and typing people regardless of what they've felt applied to themselves. It bothered me then, and it bothers me now. I feel it was a bad habit to get into, which thankfully doesn't present itself when away from this forum. If I didn't have people I considered friends on this forum, I would not be coming back. As is, I'd like to spend some relaxing time here, where I don't have to deal with the Ti theory. But if I first have to go through this with you, Eliza, then so be it. At least you asked first. Please, present your "little type theory" of my type so we can hopefully move on.

    Just so you are aware, I find that "NeFi" describes how I process information better than any other element/function combination. This includes the more problematic issues which "NeFi" would naturally face when dealing with certain types of information. I hope you will be prepared to answer questions such as how an NeFi might perceive or internally react to whatever your 'proof' is, as well as what necessarily prevents an NeFi from even dealing with your 'proof' in the way it was dealt with.

    If you think I am being too harsh, please keep in mind that you chose to approach me through a Ti theory rather than spend time actually interacting with me or getting to know me yourself. If you wish to have any influence over how I perceive how I process information, I would be asking that you also spend some effort trying to actually 'see' how I might have been processing that info. Iow, you're coming at me through my Ti polr...so don't expect it welcoming.

    And...when this particular conver is over, hopefully we can then relax and spend some time interacting as we might normally and comfortably do.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    @Eliza Thomason
    And, though I doubt you will believe it, the strife she causes stresses me out...
    I totally believe that! It is clear that your frustration with Marista comes from genuine stress from communications with her. I think you are a very upfront person.

    Now, that said, its not likely I can type long today unless all I have planned for the day goes unusually efficiently. And I can't stay up late tonight like the last 2 nights (I can always count on a "second wind": when I should be going to bed)... So if I cannot gt back to this today, I will tomorrow.

    Also please know, when I say I have a "theory" about your type, I use the term loosely! Its more an idea, an impression, and perhaps because of my P-ness, I am not particularly married to these thoughts, so, don't approach reading them as my "profound conclusion". I would certainly be open to your feedback. (When I get them written!)


    P.S. LOL, walking around the block muttering? [must be about Marista!]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    P.S. LOL, walking around the block muttering? [must be about Marista!]
    Only when I try to reason with her, or try to get her to consider other possible meanings or ways of looking at something.

    I spent way more time walking around the blocks when I was learning Socionics, though. Way more.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    I realize I have made all this ta-do how I am going to write my little "theory" of Annalise's type, and now I have been silent, so I want to say, I have not forgotten. I just have this backlog of stuff I have to do, mostly at home, that I am attacking as I go visit my SLI next week, out of town, and out of state... on top of that, I am attacking my bad habit of being a night owl, as I must be up early mornings. So I wil soon answer this.

    Meanwhile I am trying to make good easy healthy food with ingrediants at hand... espiocally since I am working at home... I made chicken broth earlier this week and I have cream here from a recent for the dairy visit, so I am making cream soups. Today's is Cream of Mushroom.. I picked up shitakes to add to my portabellas when I took my mom to her group, and I had cream sherry around, so, yum, omigosh, its delicious! And fast to make.

    I will write soon, probably tomorrow..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I realize I have made all this ta-do how I am going to write my little "theory" of Annalise's type, and now I have been silent, so I want to say, I have not forgotten. I just have this backlog of stuff I have to do, mostly at home, that I am attacking as I go visit my SLI next week, out of town, and out of state... on top of that, I am attacking my bad habit of being a night owl, as I must be up early mornings. So I wil soon answer this.

    Meanwhile I am trying to make good easy healthy food with ingrediants at hand... espiocally since I am working at home... I made chicken broth earlier this week and I have cream here from a recent for the dairy visit, so I am making cream soups. Today's is Cream of Mushroom.. I picked up shitakes to add to my portabellas when I took my mom to her group, and I had cream sherry around, so, yum, omigosh, its delicious! And fast to make.

    I will write soon, probably tomorrow..
    That sounds great. You know, you can always freeze your shitake if you don't use all of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    That sounds great. You know, you can always freeze your shitake if you don't use all of them.
    That soup was SO GREAT!! Leftovers tonight. I have never ever used shitake before! I use portobellas all the time. But the comments in the online recipe suggested trying shitakes, so I did. One of them had a little sphere the diameter of a thumbnail that was all like a mass of hard tiny bubbles. Pretty strange so I cut it off and discarded. What the heck was that?

    Thanks for the tip about freezing shittakes because I will have my eye out for when they are on sale...

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    Well here are my thoughts on Anndelise’s type. I hope the delay did not give anyone the idea this is anything profound I am composing. I just have been tied up with other things.

    Anndelise a T type? I had no such thoughts! She is a dear people-person. (But no offense to Ts! And I am in love with a T.)

    Anndelise, hear me out while I drop this blow – I think its SEE. Yes, its true, wretched Marista [just teasing, Marista] has laid out an extensive and infuriating argument for this for you. I have not followed the argument (lightly skimmed some places only) -- I just am not as schooled as she is, and I don’t know you well or long, so I am ill-equipped to judge it. But it may well be true that her decision that you are a SEE could have influenced my thought that you are that. But my reasons are my own, so let me tell you, and as I have said, I am not married to this idea, I do not mind being told you don’t see it that way at all. I am interested in your genuine reaction to these thoughts.

    Its just that you remind me of SEEs I know - Cherie who cares for my mother when I take time away from her. Also of Becca, my SLI-love’s adult daughter, and Angie, an acquaintance-friend from college days - all SEEs. [All these names are made up.] When I read what you write, I am reminded of these.


    Because when I see a puzzling response, or a different response than I might expect from a person, my mind searches to understand why a person is behaving that way, and I make conncections to people I already know. And its rather an intuitive connection, but I feel quite sure of it, and I think I am pretty strong with that intuitive thing, because I think in this case I am using my very strongest function. (but I am not infallible!) And with you, my mind keeps going to Cherie, who helps me understand Becca, and knowing them helps me understand my old friend back when, Angie. It seems to me as if my mind involuntarily goes to Cherie when I am trying to understand you!

    Furthermore, my mind goes somewhere else when you are in conflict with Marista. You have written long posts when you are in conflict with her, and I read them and can feel your angst. And that angst is so familiar! I can feel it (that’s why I told you: I believe you are genuine) and it reminds me of a very angst I only know too well. The angst and the irritation and impatience you feel with Marista is exactly like what I have to deal with with my mother. Its how I easily feel towards her. I’m not proud. I can’t help it! And my mother is my Supervisee. And if you are SEE, then Marista is your Supervisee. No wonder I know just how you feel!

    It’s the overall feeling I get from the way you write. That frustration, that “how can anyone even think that way??” kind of annoyance – that’s what I feel with my mother too often! (I have to hold it in! I want to be kind!).

    My Supervisor-style annoyance with my mother is very close to the surface lately as I am trying to come to grips with it. She lives with me, I care for her, and I am all she has, and I was horrified to realize I am her Supervisor, at a time I feel such righteous indignation towards my SLI-love’s ex-wife, who was his supervisor, and their marriage, with him as Supervisee, was truly what they say for him: dangerous and deleterious.

    And this is the sad position my mother sits in with me!

    Let me tell you a little aobut Cheri, Becca, Angie and what they all have in common. A gorgeous thick head of hair, all three of them, just like you (I saw your “haircut” pics on your blog) and also like you, nice eyes, nice womanly features and figure, feminine faces of fuller features and by full I do not mean fat. All three are attractive of face and figure. All three are openly friendly, approachable, and easy to be around, and will speak to anyone, and love a social situation. They are all active, moving about a lot. They all speak their mind very assertively, but as assertive and surprising and strong as their opinion may be, they are not trying to push you; they are just being themselves.

    Cherie approaches her work in a random sort of way, sort of like you. In fact, at first, I can make no rhyme nor reason of it. But then on closer examination I can see she has a plan, goals, priorities and is moving in the direction she wants to go. She is not one to get overly caught up in just-so details like I can. I see these things in you in your approach to work.

    As to above, this is written aobut SEE’s use of Se, and it sounds like what you said of yuour garden goals (the bolded part):

    “As a lifestyle matter, SEEs are often oriented towards productive activity; they can be often impatient with abstract explanations or ideas, and they usually prefer tangible accounts of worldly affairs, and information that they can use and apply. They may prefer to work in real-world contexts or on projects that are subject to their influence, as opposed to trying to effectuate overly intangible ideas.”

    Next I am going to comment on your earlier post here. But I first have to take my Mom for a walk. I will be kind and pleasant... I will be kind and pleasant...
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 08-10-2012 at 01:34 AM.

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    No.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post


    And, though I doubt you will believe it, the strife she causes stresses me out. Maritsa was having lots of conflicts with individuals on the forum long before I knew she existed....
    I see there are conflicts but I have not studied them all to understand them. I stumbled on yours first. I have seen some that seem to be some people sensitively aware of their own hurt feelings who say so directly and sharply, as INFJs can.

    I totally believe you are stressed out by it! But it reminds me of how I feel towards my Mom. Learning Socionics sometimes helps me see why, looking back, my Mom would say things I was so sharply hurt or annoyed - and my brothers would be fine! Much of the time her annoying things would be directed at me - but Supervisees are annoyed by their Supervisors! So now I realize it was not all about being the only girl.


    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    For myself, I admit that I am an emotional reactive person. The proper term would be Neurotic. Usually I'm reacting to something before I even know what I'm reacting to. But that initial emotion comes in short bursts and then usually dissipates enough for me to review what was going on when it happened so that I can either resolve what was happening, or find a way to prevent it from happening again.
    Now I wonder how consistent that is with IEE? Because I am not emotionally reactive. I do have the feeling, but I don't understand it, so i don;t want to express it, because of how Fi works with me -- I want to think it through and understand it. I want to get along with everyone, so I am too aware that hasty words I will have to do work to make up for it later. And I am too aware I sometimes perceiving/judging things wrong, and I want to be sure, by thinking it over. I'd rather get my act together about my feelings before I say anything. And I think i read that IEEs do that. Your reaction seems more like my SEE friends. And I like that aobut them, that they know where they stand and will say. I appreciate their honest straightforwardness.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    If the issue is a little too complex and requires more thought put into it, then I prefer to go for a nice long walk as I figure it out. Walking calms my nerves and reduces the 'jumpiness' of ideas. It's not uncommon for my neighbors to see me walking around the block ranting and raving to myself, lol.
    Omigosh, this is EXACTLY like Cheri! In fact, its nice to walk around here, so if she comes to watch Mom for an afternoon, rather than go right home after, she will be out pacing the neighborhood, often attached to her cell phone. Once I ran out for a quick errand while she was doing this (I will runout if my son is home and she is asleep), and she felt she had to explain what she was doing. But unnecesarry - I totally got it. I know her now. I know her need to pace. Sometimes she will pace in my living room while she watches TV!

    And the line-up of shows, not what I would pick: "Gentlemen prefer Blonds" "How to Marry a Millionaire". Completely different selection than me. But I appreciate them - lighthearted, fun, visually well-dressed and well-made-up cast, lots of laughs. She LOVES these shows. But my Netflex picks are "Bristish Dramas" or, "Dramas based on Classic books"...

    Oh, and my son does not get a lot of her uniqueness. It reminds me of what is said elsewhere about ESFPs:

    In moments of depression, which are not so rare, ESFps like to complain to others that they are not as people think they are and that this is the reason they are often misunderstood. In situations such as these their eyes can become glazed and distant.

    Are you like this? I have seen it in Cheri, Becca and Angi. They are usually upbeat, but can fall into a funk I would describe like that. And they have each made that statement (one I have never made!). I do feel for them at those times.



    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    However, I do not roll over and allow someone to 'misunderstand' over and over again. In particular, I do not like when someone twists something I said/did into something I didn't say/do...or worse...would likely never say/do. I do not like it when people project false motivations and intentions onto me. And if they do it over and over and over again, then I consider it abusive and will respond accordingly. (Nor do I like discovering myself doing that to someone else, and I will recriminate myself for it, and usually remove myself from the situation until I feel stable again.)
    Totally understandable, Annalise! There is not a thing wrong with saying you are offended when you feel you have been offended!


    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    And finally, I do not like being treated as a label. Whether that label be "Bipolar" or "NeFi" or even "E6". I am a person. Those labels happen to describe aspects of myself and what I deal with, but they are far from the totallity of who I am. Just as whatever descriptive categorizations might apply to you are only a portion of who/what you are...or anyone else.
    I totally agree with that. Also I did not know you struggle with Bipolar. That is a cross to bear!

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Now, I admit that I have a 6 year history of getting caught up in this Ti theory and typing people regardless of what they've felt applied to themselves. It bothered me then, and it bothers me now. I feel it was a bad habit to get into, which thankfully doesn't present itself when away from this forum. If I didn't have people I considered friends on this forum, I would not be coming back. As is, I'd like to spend some relaxing time here, where I don't have to deal with the Ti theory. But if I first have to go through this with you, Eliza, then so be it. At least you asked first. Please, present your "little type theory" of my type so we can hopefully move on.
    Now the way I see it is Marista and likely others are very interested in the theory part of the theory, the functions and how they apply to people. While it is a forum for socializing, its also about Socionics theory, and NFs and NTs are likely to be especially into typing people and analyzing aspects of the theory related to how they type people. And if you are present on this forum speaking your mind, these type-analyst types are just going to be doing their typing thing. I understand the frustration of being mistyped. However it it is my mirror or other more positive type in disagreement with me, it would be a lot easier to take than my Supervisee. Just my opinion from my own experience. My INFJ friends, wherein we do not agree, I don;t even need to explain myself. One is not Catholic, and is into stuff I am not into. I accept she does not get my faith and I do not get into what i see is wrong with certain of her beliefs. My Catholic INFJ friend and I are similar in our religious beliefs, but she is adamantly against (for wrong reasons, IMO) a mystic I am very much for. She has gone on why she is against her, and I see the flaw in her judgement, but I see she is closed on that, and guess what? Its just not that important. Its fine with me that we disagree on that. That's the tolerance with Mirrors I think. In my own experience! Unfortunately, the gut reaction in dealing with a Supervisor/supervisee is often inflamed annoyance!


    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Just so you are aware, I find that "NeFi" describes how I process information better than any other element/function combination. This includes the more problematic issues which "NeFi" would naturally face when dealing with certain types of information. I hope you will be prepared to answer questions such as how an NeFi might perceive or internally react to whatever your 'proof' is, as well as what necessarily prevents an NeFi from even dealing with your 'proof' in the way it was dealt with.
    I may not be prepared to deal with that. Its really about relating you to SEEs I know, as well as the differences inhow you and I seem to approach things which in my theory its because we are SEE/IEE. I think I really get you becasue we are "Lookalikes". But I see just enough of a difference, that S/N . Just a small difference in how we seem to approach things. And about how your frustration with Marista I feel as if its mine, since its exactly how i feel with my Mom at times!

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    If you think I am being too harsh,
    Not at all! I understand because I am in the same spot, all too often!

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    And...when this particular conver is over, hopefully we can then relax and spend some time interacting as we might normally and comfortably do.
    We don't have to convince each other of anything. I am fine with your reaction being "just doesn't resonate with me" (my non-Catholic INFJs favorite phrase!) or whatever. I am open to your genuine reaction to what I said. Its just not that important. I am just sharing my impressions.

    If you are in fact SEE and end up embracing that, there is no reason you cannot lounge in Delta as your primary "lounge" as the resident SEE, or wherever you feel most comfortable. When I was spending more time on PerC I used to "lounge" in the ISTP forum, because I was comfortable there, since I love an ISTP. I was a "resident ENFP" there, and there were resident INFJs, ENTJs, ENFJs, ISTJs, etc. also lounging there with the mostly ISTPs... Be who you want to be!

    P.S. Is the following true of you?? It is so true of my friend Cheri! :
    In day to day matters ESFps can be forgetful and careless. They may forget to switch off home appliances etc. When cooking a dish that requires constant supervision, they can often neglect and ruin it.
    Cheri is not a fancy cook, there are funny things left in the fridge when I return. Its about expediency for her, getting the meal on the table! While I relate to that, as I sometimes will make whatever takes the least possible work, other times, often enough, I want to get a good new different thoughtful recipe and make something that is more of a work of art (as in the art of cooking).... Every once in a while, I want to make something really, really hard from scratch, just to know I can do it. I am going to make my SLI Beef Wellington one day - quite a project, because I read in his journals when he was in England that he had it, and really loved it....

    My SEE friend Cheri would never do that. However, she is so reliable for spur of the moment. If someone is home-bound, she will boil some egg noodles and open a can of whatever is sitting on the edge of the shelf to mix in, and bring it over. Or there is an impromptu get-together, and she will pull out cake mix and fast make a cake to bring along. No frosting, no problem, whatever is there - Christmas sprinkles? Will do. And I love that I can count on her to come last-minute for my Mom, too. If she is free, she will come. I really value that!
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 08-10-2012 at 02:27 AM.

  38. #38
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No.
    Do you mean, "NO" as in, I am wrong, Annelise is not SEE?

  39. #39
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  40. #40
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    There are only 16 types Eliza - not every IEE will be exactly like you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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