Generic Introduction

[Cozzine]

I thought I'd make an introduction here, even though I don't care to understand the reasoning behind doing so (does anyone even care about introductions? Does it give people a reason to feel needed?) I am relatively new to Socionics. I have spent the last few months looking into MBTI, and so have decided to delve further into it all by checking out Socionics. I took the test (I rather enjoyed the sliding portion of it, but the pictures threw me off; I assume Socionics actually takes into account physical traits? If that is so I have a long face with an established wide forehead, and a narrow-but-round chin) and came out as ILI-1Te (INTp). I have absolutely no idea what this means apart from what the results told me (I guess I have an abstract meaning, but I'd like to know more) and I already feel an obsession to find out about Socionics and what this result means. In MBTI I have always tested INTJ (I have undergone probably 10 tests, from as many different authors as I could, in order to try to verify accuracy, as everyone knows that the tests can be entirely subjective and inaccurate) and have studied up on the cognitive functions. I have never been truly satisfied though, as I believe MBTI has gaping flaws and seems rather constrictive in its analysis. I have harbored doubts about my type, and I am willing to admit that I am terrible at self-analysis (when a Socionics test I took mentioned that I should choose traits that others would see in me...How would I know how others see me???) I am good at studying all but myself, simply because my Se function is rather terrible and I am always stuck in my head. In Enneagrams, I have fallen on Type 5, although even that may be up for further analysis and investigation. It is the closest I've come to in self-application of Enneagram Types. I am male, in my early twenties, and I enjoy reading and being on my computer. I admit my range of activities...is lacking. I've conducted extensive research into the local area in an attempt to find other things to engage in, but nothing meets my criteria. I'm not an outgoing person anyway, so I don't get emotional about it or anything. I think that is it. I'm not writing my autobiography so I'll end it here.

[Beautiful sky]

LOL trying to verify accuracy, analysis, and investigation..please keep that in mind.

[Cozzine]

LOL trying to verify accuracy, analysis, and investigation..please keep that in mind.

?Is that poking fun, or is that concurrence?

[Beautiful sky]

?Is that poking fun, or is that concurrence?

I don't poke fun at people. It's a thought. An analysis of a kind.

[Cozzine]

I don't poke fun at people. It's a thought. An analysis of a kind.

What is the meaning of that post though? Are you yourself trying to verify accuracy, analysis, and investigation? Is this a "We both float the same boat" kind of circumstance? Am I acting INTp or INTj ("LII (INTj): 97% as likely as ILI"), why am I thinking this is similar to MBTI now in ambiguity?

[Beautiful sky]

What is the meaning of that post though? Are you yourself trying to verify accuracy, analysis, and investigation? Is this a "We both float the same boat" kind of circumstance? Am I acting INTp or INTj ("LII (INTj): 97% as likely as ILI"), why am I thinking this is similar to MBTI now in ambiguity?

Those things stuck out at me and your further analysis is also sticking out at me as being your typical personality. There are many tests out there and I think what you're doing is trying them all at this point to see how they compare. I would try not to get bogged down in the confusion and keep it simple, although you could learn a lot of general concepts from such exploratory investigation. It may be difficult from a personal perspective to identify your own base function as others are more likely to see it than yourself, sometimes people are in denial, sometimes, people can easily identify themselves too. I would just go by functions.

[Cozzine]

Those things stuck out at me and your further analysis is also sticking out at me as being your typical personality. There are many tests out there and I think what you're doing is trying them all at this point to see how they compare. I would try not to get bogged down in the confusion and keep it simple, although you could learn a lot of general concepts from such exploratory investigation. It may be difficult from a personal perspective to identify your own base function as others are more likely to see it than yourself, sometimes people are in denial, sometimes, people can easily identify themselves too. I would just go by functions.

Ah, I see. I had completely misinterpreted your original post as well. Yes, I have been trying to compare the different tests to find common ground and make an absolute decision. All I've been doing really is stirring up doubts and confusion, but I can't help but conduct that exploratory investigation. It intrigues me, and I feel the need to uncover everything. MBTI, Enneagrams, Socionics, it all ties together in so many ways, to so many degrees. It influences the big picture through underlying currents, and ties into realms like, for example, economics. It allows prediction of the future, and a mastery of it all can help uncover absolute truths. The scope of it all...unfathomable.

[Beautiful sky]

Ah, I see. I had completely misinterpreted your original post as well. Yes, I have been trying to compare the different tests to find common ground and make an absolute decision. All I've been doing really is stirring up doubts and confusion, but I can't help but conduct that exploratory investigation. It intrigues me, and I feel the need to uncover everything. MBTI, Enneagrams, Socionics, it all ties together in so many ways, to so many degrees. It influences the big picture through underlying currents, and ties into realms like, for example, economics. It allows prediction of the future, and a mastery of it all can help uncover absolute truths. The scope of it all...unfathomable.

Well, from the general feel of you so far, I feel as though you may be the following types...

INTj - explores analysis of new ideas, compares and contrasts
INFj - sucks new thought, ideas, like a vacuum and analysis it's possibilities, more from humanistic, ethical perspective
ISTj - interested in analysis and new ideas, compare and contrast


I'm gonna keep this in mind. Poor sense of self awareness could possibly be Se PoLR.

[Cozzine]

Well, from the general feel of you so far, I feel as though you may be the following types... INTj - explores analysis of new ideas, compares and contrasts INFj - sucks new thought, ideas, like a vacuum and analysis it's possibilities, more from humanistic, ethical perspective ISTj - interested in analysis and new ideas, compare and contrast I'm gonna keep this in mind. Poor sense of self awareness could possibly be Se PoLR.

Feel free to analyze me. I looked up ISTj, and I don't agree with how it applies to me. While I do have military experience, I went in with skepticism to the rigidity of it all, and while it does provide security, I've often felt like I didn't fully belong in the system. The system is also very frustrating to me. I will rant and rave about the systems in the military, even though it is primarily run by sensors (or maybe I do because it is), in particular ISTJ (MBTI that is) and likely ISTj (Socionics). INFj doesn't seem to click with me as well. The ones that click with me the most are INTj and INTp. Not all the traits apply to me with one or the other. However, in MBTI I've been stuck between ISTJ, INTP and INTJ, even though the functions are completely different. Like I said before, I'm terrible at self-analysis. Give me any insight you have. I will be learning and understanding the functions.

[Cozzine]

Poor sense of self awareness could possibly be Se PoLR.

Could you expand on that? Is that the Vulnerable function?

[JWC3]

Whazzup cozzine? Do you want to be best friends?

[Cozzine]

Whazzup cozzine? Do you want to be best friends?

That was an unexpected response. What if I told you that I select friends very carefully (to the point of having one or, rarely, two) and often hold people as acquaintances? Also that I am a hard person to be friends with; I'm a recluse, and my logical attitude towards people (and bluntness and often arrogance) tends to keep people a bit of a distance back. I appreciate the forwardness though.

[JWC3]

That was an unexpected response. What if I told you that I select friends very carefully (to the point of having one or, rarely, two) and often hold people as acquaintances? Also that I am a hard person to be friends with; I'm a recluse, and my logical attitude towards people (and bluntness and often arrogance) tends to keep people a bit of a distance back. I appreciate the forwardness though.

Yeah, no problem lol

[Cozzine]

Yeah, no problem lol

Just letting you know ahead of time.

[Beautiful sky]

Could you expand on that? Is that the Vulnerable function?

Yes, that's a function which invites attention by subtle comments, but ultimately it's overwhelming and quite depressing and sad for the person to be fully immersed in it.

[Cozzine]

Yes, that's a function which invites attention by subtle comments, but ultimately it's overwhelming and quite depressing and sad for the person to be fully immersed in it.

That sounds like Fe or Se, or both, to me. I often self-reflect, but I am usually very critical of myself and hold high expectations for myself. It is overwhelming to study myself and type myself. I sometimes don't bother, but I really want to know. Those two conflict, and often lead to frustration, anger, and despair. With Fe, I am often cold, stiff, very rational, and very formal in social settings. I also agree with "uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations." Basically, I do follow under Fe with INTj. I also agree with "As a consequence, ILIs tend to be somewhat reclusive and often feel out of touch with their social surroundings" with INTp. I tend to agree more with Se in INTp, and Fe in INTj. Is this abnormal? An interesting thing I should note, is that I follow more Fi in MBTI as my face does not often express emotions, and Fe in MBTI is really not me anyway (unless I am completely in denial there).

[Beautiful sky]

I am usually very critical of myself and hold high expectations for myself

In what regard, or things?

[Cozzine]

In what regard, or things?

When I initiate a project, I expect competence in myself, and high quality and efficiency (high quality primarily). I often get upset with myself (very pissed) when any work I conduct is seen as garbage by myself or others. I also expect that I maintain a logical mindset without strong influence of emotions and I expect myself to be intelligent. I can often self-reflect on failures, and that can rile me up. I try not to go down that path, and strive to continue to improve and develop in the future in order to achieve my expectations (which I usually don't achieve anyway if they are too high, which they usually are). Sometimes I expect the world from myself.

[Beautiful sky]

When I initiate a project, I expect competence in myself, and high quality and efficiency (high quality primarily). I often get upset with myself (very pissed) when any work I conduct is seen as garbage by myself or others. I also expect that I maintain a logical mindset without strong influence of emotions and I expect myself to be intelligent. I can often self-reflect on failures, and that can rile me up. I try not to go down that path, and strive to continue to improve and develop in the future in order to achieve my expectations (which I usually don't achieve anyway if they are too high, which they usually are). Sometimes I expect the world from myself.

How about criticizing external things?

[Cozzine]

How about criticizing external things?

I expect the same of others in regards to the expectations I had mentioned in my last post, but to a lesser degree. I criticize a lot of things. Take the way military do things for example. I think with expectations, they are primarily internal. With stuff like clothes, food, etc, as long as it is basic and doesn't profoundly effect me it is fine. For example: If I get a steak, and I had asked for it medium-rare, if it is medium I have no issues. A steak is a steak, and food is food. If I order fast-food from a place, and it is very soggy when it shouldn't be, I'll grumble but I'll either eat it or toss it. I am generally a basic-needs guy, with some Se-like desires (e.g. I love tea and mocha's, and every weekend I have a food-establishment that I like going to). If I visit a friend's house, and it is messy, I really couldn't care. My own place isn't that tidy, because to me it has an untidy-structure. If it goes overboard, I will tidy, and I occasionally tidy when I feel the need. But my idea of cleanliness is pretty low. The only things I criticize are those that do not make sense, and those that are illogical and/or irrational. In those cases I will make my mind-set very clear, and I have often gotten into very heated arguments with people in the past; I do not back down in these cases, and will dig in my heels.

[ClownsandEntropy]

INTp- your paragraphing isn't convenient enough, I don't want you in my quadra.

Seriously, I would suggest INTp.

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah, you're way way too serious about things to be in Alpha.

[JWC3]

Just letting you know ahead of time.

Oh I mean, no worries, I get that. It's very endearing of you to give me that heads up. Now I know that if I use my awesome social prowess and put fourth the right amount of effort I get to be part of an elite few. Sorta like the Illuminati or seal team six. The promise of reward and prestige is never a bad thing.


Disclaimer: In case this comes off as condescending and rude, I want it to be known that I was never offended and am in no way retaliating to some perceived offense on your part.

[Cozzine]

INTp- your paragraphing isn't convenient enough, I don't want you in my quadra. Seriously, I would suggest INTp.

Isn't convenient enough? I guess I understand that. So, what happens if I butt my way into your quadra?

Yeah, you're way way too serious about things to be in Alpha.

I've never considered myself "too serious" as I can often joke around. But I guess, when I review my behaviors, ~90% of the time I'm a serious guy. I had initially assumed Alpha was a serious quadra. I guess not. I did go back and read the functions of both INTj and INTp at http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types, and in comparison between the two, INTp reflects me very much. I also noticed, and found hilarious, that the INTp descriptions of the functions are far more thorough than the INTj ones. But I hold doubts because on the site http://www.socionics.com/articles/intjorintp.htm I click more with INTj. I am not religious, and I have serious doubts I will ever be. INTps seem to be the type to enforce that, and seem very materialistic. I am not materialistic. I am very interested in the sciences, in philosophy, in space and its possibilities, and how the future may look/will be and the bigger picture of now and the future. I think I don't like the INTp persona. They strike me as utter twats. Who knows, maybe others see me the same way? I've always been on good terms with people though, and I don't go out of my way to alienate people. It does occur often though, because I'm so socially out of touch, and tend not to interact with the outside world unless the need arises. When I do step out into the sunlight, I don't come bearing harsh words and tongue-whipping criticism like it seems INTps exhibit. Oh, and while I do work in business, I doubt I could ever be an entrepreneur and I doubt business is my thing; I feel I'd better fit in with the sciences (it may be my lack of information saying that).

[Cozzine]

Oh I mean, no worries, I get that. It's very endearing of you to give me that heads up. Now I know that if I use my awesome social prowess and put fourth the right amount of effort I get to be part of an elite few. Sorta like the Illuminati or seal team six. The promise of reward and prestige is never a bad thing. Disclaimer: In case this comes off as condescending and rude, I want it to be known that I was never offended and am in no way retaliating to some perceived offense on your part.

It is not about the attitude, it is about the personality. If you are a down to earth guy who enjoys going out and socializing and partying, then we would never click. I am a quiet individual stuck in their head, who doesn't often have much to say in a group unless it is a topic I enjoy talking about (and then I will be very active, often taking the podium). I don't party and I don't socialize that much. You sound like an energetic individual who views every day as a bright day full of wonder. In MBTI-sense, you sound like an ENFP. P.S. You need to compete with the voices in my head to join the elite, lack-of-elite club.

[JWC3]

It is not about the attitude, it is about the personality. If you are a down to earth guy who enjoys going out and socializing and partying, then we would never click. I am a quiet individual stuck in their head, who doesn't often have much to say in a group unless it is a topic I enjoy talking about (and then I will be very active, often taking the podium). I don't party and I don't socialize that much. You sound like an energetic individual who views every day as a bright day full of wonder. In MBTI-sense, you sound like an ENFP. P.S. You need to compete with the voices in my head to join the elite, lack-of-elite club.

*chuckles* Omg, you have no idea. I mean, yeah, I am cranky sometimes and in those instances I do not want to do things, but yeah... I totally fucked my mouth all up from partying too hard. Like I have braces, and it was really disgusting, one of my teeth was actually up in my gums. It's almost completely fixed now though, my mom has good dental.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much you know about socionics, but fwiw assuming that you are ILI or LII you may want to reexamine the superficial criteria you have for the people you interact with because if either SEE or ESE are your dual type, then you should know that your duals are stereotypically the biggest party-ers in the socion. That's not a incredibly revolutionary idea though, personally when I was in HS and early college I thought shy people were the worst. I don't mean not out-going people, I couldn't care less if someone doesn't want to go out and party with me, but like people who took a long time to open up on an individual level. I guess I just got really impatient with how long it took to get close to some people because I always want to be as close as possible immediately. Then I had some interpersonal problems that lead me to find socionics, I discovered I should probably drop that mentality, and long story short I'm really glad I did. I have met some of the coolest most interesting people by just being a bit more patient. Incredibly worth it for me.

[Cozzine]

*chuckles* Omg, you have no idea. I mean, yeah, I am cranky sometimes and in those instances I do not want to do things, but yeah... I totally fucked my mouth all up from partying too hard. Like I have braces, and it was really disgusting, one of my teeth was actually up in my gums. It's almost completely fixed now though, my mom has good dental.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much you know about socionics, but fwiw assuming that you are ILI or LII you may want to reexamine the superficial criteria you have for the people you interact with because if either SEE or ESE are your dual type, then you should know that your duals are stereotypically the biggest party-ers in the socion. That's not a incredibly revolutionary idea though, personally when I was in HS and early college I thought shy people were the worst. I don't mean not out-going people, I couldn't care less if someone doesn't want to go out and party with me, but like people who took a long time to open up on an individual level. I guess I just got really impatient with how long it took to get close to some people because I always want to be as close as possible immediately. Then I had some interpersonal problems that lead me to find socionics, I discovered I should probably drop that mentality, and long story short I'm really glad I did. I have met some of the coolest most interesting people by just being a bit more patient. Incredibly worth it for me.

Oh, that isn't a concern for me. I don't have any plans for a relationship for at least the next decade (I hold too strong to my autonomy and individuality, my mind and its workings, and my intellectual pursuits) so whatever my "dual" is, is an underlying matter beneath my radar. For now, my mental construct remains the way it is.
I don't know too much about Socionics. I checked Wikipedia, and have a shallow understanding, but I will be embarking more into the realm. I'm not terribly sure I like Socionics so far. This forum in particular is very bare in comparison to the many catering to MBTI, and Socionics doesn't seem to have much in the realm of people applying it.
Something about it irks me; it isn't clicking so far; and I strive to find out what and why. Something, whether it is my Ni or something else, is unsettled.

[JWC3]

Oh, that isn't a concern for me. I don't have any plans for a relationship for at least the next decade (I hold too strong to my autonomy and individuality, my mind and its workings, and my intellectual pursuits) so whatever my "dual" is, is an underlying matter beneath my radar. For now, my mental construct remains the way it is.
I don't know too much about Socionics. I checked Wikipedia, and have a shallow understanding, but I will be embarking more into the realm. I'm not terribly sure I like Socionics so far. This forum in particular is very bare in comparison to the many catering to MBTI, and Socionics doesn't seem to have much in the realm of people applying it.
Something about it irks me; it isn't clicking so far; and I strive to find out what and why. Something, whether it is my Ni or something else, is unsettled.

Oh I wasn't talking about relationships in the sense of romantic relationships, I actually haven't dated my dual yet. I do have close friends who are my dual type (and semi-dual for those of you who disagree with my self typing) though that I wouldn't have found if not for socionics. Mostly the inter-type relationships in socionics operate based on psychological distance so who closes that distance and how is not so important. That being said I hear romantic dual interactions are the shit.

As for socionics, I think you'd be doing yourself a favor if you don't judge the theory by this forum. I mean socionics is much younger than MBTI so there is far less being done with it practically due to the fact that it isn't as widely accepted or just known about in general. While this is the most notable socionics forum, I would caution you against using it for anything more than casual or social interaction for a lot of reasons.

[Cozzine]

Oh I wasn't talking about relationships in the sense of romantic relationships, I actually haven't dated my dual yet. I do have close friends who are my dual type (and semi-dual for those of you who disagree with my self typing) though that I wouldn't have found if not for socionics. Mostly the inter-type relationships in socionics operate based on psychological distance so who closes that distance and how is not so important. That being said I hear romantic dual interactions are the shit.

As for socionics, I think you'd be doing yourself a favor if you don't judge the theory by this forum. I mean socionics is much younger than MBTI so there is far less being done with it practically due to the fact that it isn't as widely accepted or just known about in general. While this is the most notable socionics forum, I would caution you against using it for anything more than casual or social interaction for a lot of reasons.

Fair enough.

[JWC3]

Fair enough.

You might consider checking out some posts by the user 'Expat' though. He's not around anymore, but is a good source of information. A quick search should bring up some of his stuff.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I think you have to look more at the lifestyle and thinking styles of the types, rather than their interests. I don't have the patience to read the "INTj or INTp" article, so I may be telling you completely the wrong thing, but hopefully it'll be right on principle. I don't think certain types are more likely to be religious, though INTp's may be more likely to have some type of "spiritual" impression of things. Like there's some overarcing thing of progress and direction that things are heading. Similarly for business, I've always thought INTp's are more concerned with business because it's more based on the actual world, and on doing things effectively, whereas Alpha NT's get the freedom of researching structures and ideas which don't have to be practical or useful. But you don't have to be necessarily involved with business. I guess an interest into what things will become and the future could be seen as "Ni".

I can't comment about INTp's being twats. I see all INTp's as Daria, so I probably see them as sarcastic cynics who can't be bothered doing anything. I mean, they're actually nice people, but I'm far too biased to tell you where INTp's sit on the "twat"-spectrum.

[Ryan]

Stratievskaya's descriptions are better than the default ones on wikisocion. Check them out.

[Esaman]

It intrigues me, and I feel the need to uncover everything. MBTI, Enneagrams, Socionics, it all ties together in so many ways, to so many degrees. It influences the big picture through underlying currents, and ties into realms like, for example, economics. It allows prediction of the future, and a mastery of it all can help uncover absolute truths. The scope of it all...unfathomable.

I think you hit stereotypes of INTp really well. I am totally in accord with such theories possibly having vast implications and applications, but economics would be one of the last applications I would think of. I attribute this to you valuing Te.
Talking about underlying currents and predicting future fits Ni valuing. I am so static oriented that I generally don't care to mentioned the trends and such even though I acknowledge them. Predicting future is also not a priority because:
1. care about things that don't change
2. don't have as much of passive objective observer stand as ILI, so there more often is emphasis on things to be done to change the apparent direction.


Welcome to the forum.

[GuavaDrunk]

Hi.



I read the thread title as Genetics Introduction. >.>

[Jason]

I thought I'd make an introduction here, even though I don't care to understand the reasoning behind doing so (does anyone even care about introductions? Does it give people a reason to feel needed?) I am relatively new to Socionics. I have spent the last few months looking into MBTI, and so have decided to delve further into it all by checking out Socionics. I took the test (I rather enjoyed the sliding portion of it, but the pictures threw me off; I assume Socionics actually takes into account physical traits? If that is so I have a long face with an established wide forehead, and a narrow-but-round chin) and came out as ILI-1Te (INTp). I have absolutely no idea what this means apart from what the results told me (I guess I have an abstract meaning, but I'd like to know more) and I already feel an obsession to find out about Socionics and what this result means. In MBTI I have always tested INTJ (I have undergone probably 10 tests, from as many different authors as I could, in order to try to verify accuracy, as everyone knows that the tests can be entirely subjective and inaccurate) and have studied up on the cognitive functions. I have never been truly satisfied though, as I believe MBTI has gaping flaws and seems rather constrictive in its analysis. I have harbored doubts about my type, and I am willing to admit that I am terrible at self-analysis (when a Socionics test I took mentioned that I should choose traits that others would see in me...How would I know how others see me???) I am good at studying all but myself, simply because my Se function is rather terrible and I am always stuck in my head. In Enneagrams, I have fallen on Type 5, although even that may be up for further analysis and investigation. It is the closest I've come to in self-application of Enneagram Types. I am male, in my early twenties, and I enjoy reading and being on my computer. I admit my range of activities...is lacking. I've conducted extensive research into the local area in an attempt to find other things to engage in, but nothing meets my criteria. I'm not an outgoing person anyway, so I don't get emotional about it or anything. I think that is it. I'm not writing my autobiography so I'll end it here.

lol