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Thread: Why are SEEs insecure in relationships?

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    Default Why are SEEs insecure in relationships?

    Why are you insecure in relationships?

    Why do you criticize yourselves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Why are you insecure in relationships?

    Why do you criticize yourselves?
    Insecure in my relationships? I think not.
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    I feel ashamed. I'm insecure in my relationships because I feel ashamed. I know what my emotional world is like and I know what its done to people. How I feel is completely irrational and sometimes people can't handle that. Most of the time I can't handle that. When I meet someone I like, I immediately want to give them everything. I want to spend every second with them, to get to know them intellectually and emotionally. I want everything and not just everything, everything right now. I know that's not appropriate. It's selfish of me to act on my desires of others too strongly. So I don't. I try not to. I fail a lot. When I fail other people get hurt. I always should have known better. I should have given less. I should have hidden this part of me. I should have emphasized that one. When it comes to my emotions I don't know what the fucking rules are and the rules I do know I can't follow. That scares me. Not because I fear rejection, I accept myself and that's enough. I'm scared because I don't want to hurt anyone. I should know better than to be too open too soon. Than to be hurtful. Than to give to the wrong person. But I don't. That's my fault. I accept that. I can't fix it. I wouldn't if I could either. I may let very few people in but I know the people who can look inside and not feel frightened enjoy the chaos just as much as I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I feel ashamed. I'm insecure in my relationships because I feel ashamed. I know what my emotional world is like and I know what its done to people. How I feel is completely irrational and sometimes people can't handle that. Most of the time I can't handle that. When I meet someone I like, I immediately want to give them everything. I want to spend every second with them, to get to know them intellectually and emotionally. I want everything and not just everything, everything right now. I know that's not appropriate. It's selfish of me to act on my desires of others too strongly. So I don't. I try not to. I fail a lot. When I fail other people get hurt. I always should have known better. I should have given less. I should have hidden this part of me. I should have emphasized that one. When it comes to my emotions I don't know what the fucking rules are and the rules I do know I can't follow. That scares me. Not because I fear rejection, I accept myself and that's enough. I'm scared because I don't want to hurt anyone. I should know better than to be too open too soon. Than to be hurtful. Than to give to the wrong person. But I don't. That's my fault. I accept that. I can't fix it. I wouldn't if I could either. I may let very few people in but I know the people who can look inside and not feel frightened enjoy the chaos just as much as I do.
    awww

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    Ye, why are you, JWC3?

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    anyone else? ...dolphin?

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    @JWC3: I want you inside me right now!

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravolez View Post
    @JWC3: I want you inside me right now!
    lol Well I mean, if you're ever in the states I'm always down with meeting socionics people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    lol Well I mean, if you're ever in the states I'm always down with meeting socionics people.
    Oh, just let him in, he's a renowned surgeon, he can do wonders to your anatomy. ILI+SEE love is worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Why are you insecure in relationships?

    Why do you criticize yourselves?
    In my experience they have a perennial requirement for external justification through admiration and sensual experiences.

    It's kind of like having a relationship with a food addict: gradually only feed them small doses and occasionally let them indulge, but don't keep taking them to banquets every ay or they will get fat and require even more food to make them feel better. Eventually you'll have a bitter shell with requirements that are impossible to meet. Replace food with admiration and sex.

    Replace this with the dual and you find that there is an explicit requirement for that person to attempt to even understand those phenomenon and to actively promote them when dealing with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    In my experience they have a perennial requirement for external justification through admiration and sensual experiences.

    It's kind of like having a relationship with a food addict: gradually only feed them small doses and occasionally let them indulge, but don't keep taking them to banquets every ay or they will get fat and require even more food to make them feel better. Eventually you'll have a bitter shell with requirements that are impossible to meet. Replace food with admiration and sex.

    Replace this with the dual and you find that there is an explicit requirement for that person to attempt to even understand those phenomenon and to actively promote them when dealing with others.
    Unfortunately, yup.
    Easy Day

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    JWC3 where's your best friend?

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    I was in this relationship with an ESE once where we we're essentially just food addicts together. Of course we both ended up jaded, bitter, and really just hating the other person. God, that was one hell of a buffet though.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    JWC3 where's your best friend?
    Which one? I'm more interested in what you're getting at though.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Why are you insecure in relationships?

    Why do you criticize yourselves?
    I thought it was a little biased of you to assume SEEs were insecure or criticized themselves without asking them, properly, “Are you insecure?” or “Do you criticize yourselves?” (Afterwards it might be more appropriate to field your original questions.) It sounded like you had a specific context in mind to which you were implicitly referring so I was waiting to see if more information appeared on that front before rushing headlong into confirmation bias. “I am insecure in relationships” is an entirely different statement than “SEEs are insecure in relationships” and it takes quite a few logical leaps to connect the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravolez View Post
    @JWC3: I want you inside me right now!
    Ew.


    I still think JWC3 is sle.
    My three SEE friends have all been pretty insecure in their relationships (but that's just them, and they have all been screwed over before).

    Marista, why are EIIs so pushy? and only hear what they want to hear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Marista, why are EIIs so pushy? and only hear what they want to hear?
    Actually let's just say fuck it to what I was going to respond to you with, which was essentially tu quoque in a sort of roundabout way. Instead let's perhaps have an actual conversation about this.

    @blackburry Why do you think SLE > SEE with regards to my type?
    Last edited by JWC3; 07-14-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I thought it was a little biased of you to assume SEEs were insecure or criticized themselves without asking them, properly, “Are you insecure?” or “Do you criticize yourselves?” (Afterwards it might be more appropriate to field your original questions.) It sounded like you had a specific context in mind to which you were implicitly referring so I was waiting to see if more information appeared on that front before rushing headlong into confirmation bias. “I am insecure in relationships” is an entirely different statement than “SEEs are insecure in relationships” and it takes quite a few logical leaps to connect the two.
    Fwiw I'd assume almost everyone is insecure in their relationships sometimes. Well I mean not everyone but it just strikes me as fairly normal to not have everything figured out all the time. Or perhaps to have everything figured out all the time just not in every relationship ever. I dunno. Maybe some people do. I'm not really one of them. I am fairly overconfident at times though and the polar opposite other times.
    Last edited by JWC3; 07-14-2012 at 09:07 PM.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Actually let's just say fuck it to what I was going to respond to you with, which was essentially tu quoque in a sort of roundabout way. Instead let's perhaps have an actual conversation about this.

    @blackburry Why do you think SLE > SEE with regards to my type?
    I'm no where near as pushy as Marista nor did I start a thread about why SEEs are insecure.
    I merely stated a common theme I see with EIIs as she did with SEEs, but mine was in a half-ass joking way.
    yeah, glad you kept it to yourself.

    SLE seems to fit you more.
    just a vibe. you're extremely opinionated in a way I associate with a ton of Ti types. and your posts come
    off a lil douchey. in a sometimes (sometimes not) endearing way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I'm no where near as pushy as Marista nor did I start a thread about why SEEs are insecure.
    I merely stated a common theme I see with EIIs as she did with SEEs, but mine was in a half-ass joking way.
    yeah, glad you kept it to yourself.

    SLE seems to fit you more.
    just a vibe. you're extremely opinionated in a way I associate with a ton of Ti types. and your posts come
    off a lil douchey. in a sometimes (sometimes not) endearing way.
    Well yes. I do think that our disagreements are worthwhile from a socionics standpoint. OpCertainly I think the nature of our seemingly mutual dislike is characterized by Ti/Fi interactions. Though knowing that saying so will likely make me seem like I am politically retyping you in response to you retyping me, of the two of us I think you are far more likely Ti inclined than I am. For example your behavior in the dual jokes thread, in response to the holocaust jokes being told essentially struck me as "Holocaust jokes are never funny under any circumstance, no matter who's talking, and saying them makes you a horrible person" which I would say is a fairly concrete example of Ti structure being imposed upon individual behavior. So I reacted harshly because fuck your structure essentially.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Well yes. I do think that our disagreements are worthwhile from a socionics standpoint. OpCertainly I think the nature of our seemingly mutual dislike is characterized by Ti/Fi interactions. Though knowing that saying so will likely make me seem like I am politically retyping you in response to you retyping me, of the two of us I think you are far more likely Ti inclined than I am. For example your behavior in the dual jokes thread, in response to the holocaust jokes being told essentially struck me as "Holocaust jokes are never funny under any circumstance, no matter who's talking, and saying them makes you a horrible person" which I would say is a fairly concrete example of Ti structure being imposed upon individual behavior. So I reacted harshly because fuck your structure essentially.
    o my fucking god. how annoying. "i'm gonna retype you b/c you retyped me..laskdflaksfd" I never said that there aren't any holocaust jokes that are funny. NEVER. I just didn't find the particular comment funny. and people were giving their opinion of it so I chime in my own with personal opinion of it. I could give a shit less about structures. bleh your whole mindset just grosses me out.
    lets agree to look over the other person's posts from now on and not talk?...no response to the post needed. srsly.

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    Lol what a petty, controlling thing to say

    "Don't respond, my word is final, mmk?"
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Lol what a petty, controlling thing to say

    "Don't respond, my word is final, mmk?"
    no not at all.. he and i never have anything constructive or even nice to say to eachother, it's frustrating and annoying so why even bother?
    it's a easy fix, neither of us says anything to the other. i don't see that as controlling or petty. we never say anything useful to the other anyways..

    **AND i feel bad for ruining threads if it goes too far off topic.

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    Well it's not an unfair assessment, I'm sure; I haven't kept pace with your interactions, so I don't know, but that part struck me as an aggravating comment to be the target of.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    no not at all.. he and i never have anything constructive or even nice to say to eachother, it's frustrating and annoying so why even bother?
    it's a easy fix, neither of us says anything to the other. i don't see that as controlling or petty. we never say anything useful to the other anyways..

    **AND i feel bad for ruining threads if it goes too far off topic.
    Well I mean for the record I was doing a fairly successful job of ignoring you, you brought me up and to some extent I felt obligated to reply. Also I was trying to say I'm not retyping you because of this, I cited your behavior and how I reacted in an old thread as an indication of my typing of you always being Ti something. I just figured since we were having a conversation about it now would be an appropriate time to talk about my perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I'm not saying it's not normal. I'm saying, is it relevant? If so, how? Why should I put energy into thinking about or answering this?
    I dunno *shrugs* I just did because she asked me to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I thought it was a little biased of you to assume SEEs were insecure or criticized themselves without asking them, properly, “Are you insecure?” or “Do you criticize yourselves?” (Afterwards it might be more appropriate to field your original questions.) It sounded like you had a specific context in mind to which you were implicitly referring so I was waiting to see if more information appeared on that front before rushing headlong into confirmation bias. “I am insecure in relationships” is an entirely different statement than “SEEs are insecure in relationships” and it takes quite a few logical leaps to connect the two.
    You may be right, but my statement was from observation of many cases and many SEEs talking about their insecurities. This misunderstanding may arise out of Asking and Declaring differences between you and I, so just translated in however fashion you want and maybe see if you can produce any sort of related answer, I'm declaring again, sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    You may be right, but my statement was from observation of many cases and many SEEs talking about their insecurities. This misunderstanding may arise out of Asking and Declaring differences between you and I, so just translated in however fashion you want and maybe see if you can produce any sort of related answer, I'm declaring again, sorry
    aw <3

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    Well, Dolphin, you know I love you and this isn't so that I can get all the SEE on here to agree with my point. It's because I am looking at some light being shed on the subject without asking the SEE who are already going through this what is happening to them. I'm sure this doesn't apply to every single SEE. I myself have found that even the vices true of most EII are things that I've come to realize and not do in me; that has to do with self reflection and growth. I want to understand the process of what happens and what triggers such reactions. Is it the person they are with, or is it their interaction, is it something they are trying to get that they can't? The mechanics of the inner workings are more important to me than being fixated at a judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Which one? I'm more interested in what you're getting at though.
    stan? right? stan...where is he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Well, Dolphin, you know I love you and this isn't so that I can get all the SEE on here to agree with my point. It's because I am looking at some light being shed on the subject without asking the SEE who are already going through this what is happening to them. I'm sure this doesn't apply to every single SEE. I myself have found that even the vices true of most EII are things that I've come to realize and not do in me; that has to do with self reflection and growth. I want to understand the process of what happens and what triggers such reactions. Is it the person they are with, or is it their interaction, is it something they are trying to get that they can't? The mechanics of the inner workings are more important to me than being fixated at a judgement.
    Perhaps a good place to start would be with the universal. Why is anyone insecure in a relationship? That being said you might have more success talking to any SEE you like to keep at a close psychological distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Ew.


    I still think JWC3 is sle.
    My three SEE friends have all been pretty insecure in their relationships (but that's just them, and they have all been screwed over before).

    Marista, why are EIIs so pushy? and only hear what they want to hear?
    Ok that helps, so being screwed over makes someone insecure.
    I believe that EII are pushy because they are a Declaring type, because they devalue the finesse of Se, because they have poor ability to judge their senses (ie, did my information get through to the other individual, is it understood, can we conclude that it's been understood) I think when the other party affirms the receipt and says something like "I understand you" or "she is a literal person" that gives us the calming effect needed to back off; then we realize "yes, the person heard me." We get way too impassioned about our ideas and think that those ideas should be taken seriously by others, this is a combination of both valuing Ne, being a serious type, and the "should" which is impressing our moral understandings on others. I hope this makes some sense in the way I explain the complexity and dynamics of this interplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    stan? right? stan...where is he?
    Stan?! I'm going to go visit him tonight! He goes home for the summer but is in town this weekend so I'll be out committing sexual acts at him after I get out of work. He doesn't socionics anymore though, well he might but I tend to not bring it up so much because it makes us fight.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Well, Dolphin, you know I love you and this isn't so that I can get all the SEE on here to agree with my point. It's because I am looking at some light being shed on the subject without asking the SEE who are already going through this what is happening to them. I'm sure this doesn't apply to every single SEE. I myself have found that even the vices true of most EII are things that I've come to realize and not do in me; that has to do with self reflection and growth. I want to understand the process of what happens and what triggers such reactions. Is it the person they are with, or is it their interaction, is it something they are trying to get that they can't? The mechanics of the inner workings are more important to me than being fixated at a judgement.
    Okay, you want more insight on their inner workings, I can dig that. Not sure how much I can help you..but let's see.

    When I'm in a relationship (general relationships as well as romantic), I feel pretty intwined with the other person. It can be hard to get perspective on who is contributing unhelpful behaviors in the relationship, ie, is it me or is it them? I tend to give a lot in a relationship if I'm emotionally taken with the person.

    Also, I tend to get strongly jealous, but only in certain instances. At that point I'd rather detach myself from the person and try not to need them rather than be open about my emotions. It is possible to be open, but I have to trust them a lot.
    Last edited by female; 07-15-2012 at 07:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I thought it was a little biased of you to assume SEEs were insecure or criticized themselves without asking them, properly, “Are you insecure?” or “Do you criticize yourselves?” (Afterwards it might be more appropriate to field your original questions.) It sounded like you had a specific context in mind to which you were implicitly referring so I was waiting to see if more information appeared on that front before rushing headlong into confirmation bias. “I am insecure in relationships” is an entirely different statement than “SEEs are insecure in relationships” and it takes quite a few logical leaps to connect the two.
    ^ SUPERVISION

    but at the same time feels like it is often in need of modification or reformulation from the point of view of his leading function.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-15-2012 at 03:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    When I'm in a relationship (general relationships as well as romantic), I feel pretty intwined with the other person. It can be hard to get perspective on who is contributing unhelpful behaviors in the relationship, ie, is it me or is it them? I tend to give a lot in a relationship if I'm emotionally taken with the person.
    I've had trouble with this, but I always thought it was sure connected to being a Ne ego & having weak Se.
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    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I've had trouble with this, but I always thought it was sure connected to being a Ne ego & having weak Se.
    No. it has to do with having weak judging function. HINT! HINT!

    I don't have trouble with that kind of thing. I look at what the person does to aggravate me, I look at what I to aggravate them. I categorize the behaviors and I say this I can't tolerate, that I can and if you keep doing this, I'm just gonna scream.

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    Dolphin my love..........

    because of what you told me and the way you told me in this thread about how I should frame my question, instead of directly assuming something was that way...I treaded carefully around you....ooooh, don't you like that baby!!!


    hence I posted this "smooth over comment"....just teaching people socionics:

    Well, Dolphin, you know I love you and this isn't so that I can get all the SEE on here to agree with my point. It's because I am looking at some light being shed on the subject without asking the SEE who are already going through this what is happening to them. I'm sure this doesn't apply to every single SEE. I myself have found that even the vices true of most EII are things that I've come to realize and not do in me; that has to do with self reflection and growth. I want to understand the process of what happens and what triggers such reactions. Is it the person they are with, or is it their interaction, is it something they are trying to get that they can't? The mechanics of the inner workings are more important to me than being fixated at a judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    No. it has to do with having weak judging function. HINT! HINT!
    It probably has to do with a lot of things. Relationships are complicated, situations are complicated, people are complicated. Also, even according to you I have strong Fi (which is a judging function), assuming that you still type me as SEE. Herp-a-Derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    It probably has to do with a lot of things. Relationships are complicated, situations are complicated. Also, even according to you I have strong Fi (which is a judging function), assuming that you still type me as SEE. Herp-a-Derp.
    Was I talking about THAT judging function? derp....

    I like one thing about you...that you strive to be funny.

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