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Thread: Assertive triad

  1. #1
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default Assertive triad

    This is how I see them "conceptually":



    With 8 being akin to an Endocarp, a 7 akin to Mesocarp, and a 3 akin to Exocarp.

    3: Mass relative appeal over the entirety.

    7: The external meat of experience over time/space.

    8: Guardian of da core.

  2. #2
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Is this a serious attempt at discussion on the assertive triad? If not I'm gonna make it one.

    I understand the assertive triad as types whose fixations compel them to impose their own will upon the external world. Threes exhibit the stereotypical narcissistic "why don't you love me" behavior pattern and assert their desires for acceptance upon those around them. Sevens don't want to deal with their own fears and anxieties, instead assuming that those around them will act as further tools for their distraction-seeking tendencies; "I don't want to bother, so here you deal with the issue." Eights are easily the most stereotypically demonstrative of the assertive triad, "I want X thing and I'll be damned if I'll let you stand in my way of it." In all three cases the core neuroses suggest that they should re-enforce their own sense of superiority, while those who don't go along with it aren't worth their time and are thus kicked to the curb.

    Perhaps an actual member of the triad could express his/her own experiences/interpretations?
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  3. #3
    Creepy-pokeball

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    It is half-serious. My attempt is to show people more without going into stereotypes.

  4. #4
    Creepy-pokeball

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    I could show some experience, but I really do not want to be that sort of "personal" here.

  5. #5
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    In all three cases the core neuroses suggest that they should re-enforce their own sense of superiority, while those who don't go along with it aren't worth their time and are thus kicked to the curb.

    Perhaps an actual member of the triad could express his/her own experiences/interpretations?
    I relate most to the 8 in the assertive triad. I've also considered possibly being a counter-phobic six versus a 5 -- but that isn't related to the assertive triad.

    I definitely realize the need to develop in this area personally. I can recognize say a lot of anger and righteous indignation, and I realize that a solution to this is to get over other people's assessment of my own dignity. I think this is how e8 develop a sort of independence. However I've noticed e8's can be very self-righteous and I can be self-righteous, admitting weakness or that I'm wrong is very hard for me, trying to vocalize it feels like choking, trying to breath water, or injecting yourself with a needle -- it goes against every little tinge and instinct. I think this is the result of padding the ego with that sort of independent attitude. Ironically overtime that actually begins to isolate you from others, so its a tricky duality to interact with others. Too much interaction and you loose independence and people start to get under your skin and infect you, too much independence and you are lonely. I think its the dileema of the 8, and its the fuel for their conflicted nature. I also think its a good analogy to compare the e8 to the core. Because with say e1's their conflict is over ideals, but with the e8 it's their ego that is in conflict, there very existence and being.

    I think a good film that skillfully deals with the e8 theme is Star Wars. If you look at Darth Vader as a character the story projection is basically an innocent child who driven by lust foolishly rushes to seize power, thus allowing his innocent nature to be manipulated by a corrupt and older presence (the emperor). He eventually looses his humanity and become mechanical, sees other things as mechanical, and isn't free from his damnation until he overthrows the emperor, the older power which is corrupting him and threatens to destroy his son. He sees the chain eventually in the end at his last moment when he is confronted by death and non-existence that he was just a pawn being used by an older evil which was working through him to corrupt his son and will kill him to continue its spread, seeing this he makes the choice to save his son.

    I feel like that's a bit of a sloppy description, but peeling back the layers-- you can see the story is full of the themes of power, life, existence, death, non-existence, and lust. Power seeking is seen as feeding the ego, things which assert liveliness and prosperity for the individual. So conflicting power seeking is essentially pointing out this theme of protecting the ego, feeding the ego, keeping the ego strong, being independent while still attempting to meaningfully connect with the world around them (the source of the conflict). e8's are also very defensive and will insulate themselves with perceived notions of superiority to protect the ego from people attempting to harm them or put them down -- this creates the problem of self-righteousness, which in an odd way attracts criticism. If the self-righteousness ballons enough they can become leaders, attracting loads of criticism and driving like minded individuals forward. It's not atypical for these leaders to be the one's accountable and thus screwed when things don't work out, there egos attract tons of criticism and usually are severely punished by the masses.

    Anyways Lucas is typed typically as an e9 and I can see star wars being very e9/e8 ish.

  6. #6
    Creepy-male

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    Oh also check this out

    The Aggressive Types are balanced to prefer the thinking or doing centers, and to be out of touch with the feeling center. There is a tendency to act without regard for emotions – their own and those of others.

    Type 7, in the thinking center, prefers to live in the world of plans and activity, to avoid becoming trapped in their own pain. Type 7s are aggressive about meeting their own needs for stimulating activities.

    Type 8, in the doing center, prefers action, and uses thinking as a support function. Type 8s like to make a big impact in the world through their actions.

    Type 3, in the heart center, are the most out of touch with their feelings. Threes can set their feelings aside to aggressively pursue their goals.

    Exercises for the Aggressive Types – Getting in touch with the heart
    Practice active listening with someone – listen without interjecting your own stuff. Really hear the person and try to understand. (Advanced work: do this with someone you don’t really like or agree with.) As an alternative, watch movies that have a deeply emotional plot and try to empathise with the characters.

    Be gentle with yourself and love yourself. Write a biography of yourself from a neutral perspective. You will realize how hard you are on yourself.

    Work on sitting still and relaxing, without wanting to be somewhere else or doing something else. Take deep breaths to calm yourself. Notice how and where you tense your body when you have to sit still. Pay attention and relax.

    Do something you don’t want to do, just because it will make someone else happy. Do it without expecting anything in return.

    Slow down your pace and really experience you life. Take time to smell the roses, walk barefoot in the sand, or enjoy your family. Have some playtime.

    Learn to put your feelings into words. Write them down or talk with someone about them.
    I kind of feel like from what I've observed of my own character I need to develop in some of these areas.
    • Practice active listening with someone – listen without interjecting your own stuff. Really hear the person and try to understand. <<<< I usually want to interject my own opinions or spin
    • (Advanced work: do this with someone you don’t really like or agree with.) <<<<< Would be very difficult for me to do for long
    • Work on sitting still and relaxing, without wanting to be somewhere else or doing something else. <<< I find it hard to sit still, I drive around aimlessly a lot or need to walk around
    • Notice how and where you tense your body when you have to sit still. Pay attention and relax. <<< Have a horrible time sitting still at work and develop tons of tension, and my stomach will feel awful if I'm around a lot of people for a long time I don't know or trust.
    • Slow down your pace and really experience you life. Take time to smell the roses, walk barefoot in the sand, or enjoy your family. Have some playtime. <<< I need to appreciate living more

  7. #7
    Creepy-pokeball

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    You feel, from experience, like a 6w5 to me.

  8. #8
    Creepy-male

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    I don't think that's unreasonable

  9. #9
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    IMO, he doesn't seem reactive

    Basically what Galen said about "imposing will," except the actions or targets are not so heavily or directly influenced by the actual fixation. I tend to exhibit more of what he refers to as the 8s mmethod of imposing will, just sort of having to have what I want or the way I want, and not have people enforce their priorities on me. But its not really about making or demanding that people love me; its more just about having my way, and that is mostly because part of my image fixation, what I try to project, is the picture of an assertive person who is capable of getting what he wants and cannot be pushed around. I think this is usually true of 3s, and for all Assertive types I think the motive is rooted in the fixation, but is not always reflected within the context of each manifestation; pushing my will against or over someone else's is not always about forcing other people to see me in a particular light, so much as it is me reinforcing my own self-image and behaving the way I expect myself to behave.

    IMO the main element of Assertive triad is proactivity in meeting the desires of their fixation. I think they are generally the most extroverted types in the Socionics/Jungian sense of the word, which is based around orientation towards external stimuli (for contrast 2s are probably the most socially gregarious in the sense of MBTI extraversion, alongside 7s; 8s and 3s can definitely go either way, with a general leaning towards sociability, although I know a few very reclusive 8s; 3s will often "put on a show" in public but can easily be the "all work and no play" type who has no social life). The main point is, assertive types tend to "go after" what they want in a fairly direct way: 3s use the way they dress, the way they walk, talk, eat, shit, play poker, etc. to reinforce their self-image. An 8 will be stubborn over where their stapler belongs on their desk because they don't want to be forced to do something that isn't of their own volition. A 7 will almost always fidget or play with a paper clip or start breaking things or kill someone, basically do anything to avoid the runaway train in their head. So the nature of action is not always directly influenced by the fixation so much as the fixation motivates direct action in the outside world to be taken on its behalf. Assertive types are always doing something that involves activity outside themselves to avoid the darker truth that is inside: for 3s its their poor self-image and low self-esteem, for 7s its their feelings of anxiety and uncertainty, and for 8s its their feeling of powerlessness or weakness.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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