Berating people
Please give me and example of berating someone. What is said when this happens?
LSE tend to berate people and this picture is kinda a good example of this, and yes the guy IS LSE:
When I see this, I want to scream out, "YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN NOW." Or, I just keep silent and think of flowery fields until the rage subsides.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
gee, that face looks familiar. Telling them they need to calm down doesn't work. Also, telling them to go take a walk doesn't work. Trying to be nice doesn't work. Ignoring doesn't work. My advice? Get the hell away from said berater and make it clear that you don't want them in your life.
What is said? Sometimes I don't think it matters what is said. It's the tone, the anger, the vitriol with which the words are expressed. An example? That Mel Gibson thread awhile back is a pretty good example. Remember that?
IEI-Fe 4w3
Telling them to calm down makes it worse. Telling them to do anything makes it worse. Ignoring gets mixed results. I recommend either leaving the room or agreeing with them. But this only applies to ferocious yelling.
berate v to scold; rebuke
Doesn't everyone berate sometimes? Most people need scolded or rebuked on occasion.
Generally, shouting back with at the very least the same force leads to pretty good results i.e. a fist fight or an endless argument where everyone in the room begs both to stop.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
my habitual sort of response to this is a kind of a defense mechanism where i try to radiate calm and agreeableness in a way that makes kind of a shield (which is really vague, but its mostly in my head). i don't say much and i just wait it out.
some people i've noticed respond better if i respond in a sort of leveled and blunt way, like they need to come across something solid. i sort of prefer this to the shock absorption feeling of the first approach, but it also feels riskier.
lol @ shouting back with at least the same amount of force.
lol SLIs do that too. That's why we had a semi-dual fail. My reaction is to laugh at them. >> Which they don't take kindly too.
You are often attracted to angry people. This doesn't seem healthy :/Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
I don't let people treat me badly. If they do, they're in for a BIG surprise.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Who would want that anger in their partner, better off without it! Though sadly this picture reminds me of one of my female friends who struggles with controlling her emotions and is on medication but still has significant difficulties in this area.
Yea if this topic is about verbal/emotional abuse in relationship then please take the advice of what people have already mentioned.
I'm going to talk more in general, mainly because I'm interested in this topic after what redbaron wrote.
Telling them they need to calm down doesn't work.
- it doesn't work because you are ordering them to do something and invalidating their anger. Requesting they calm down for you and telling them to talk calmly on what upsets them as you are interested is a great way to defuse the situation. If they see you positively they will calm down and realize you aren't their enemy and take some time to express their feelings in a calmer manner. If they see you negatively they won't, then leave the situation and don't provoke them, if they attack you stand your ground. This is very difficult if you are the source of their anger though -- in which case it goes against your instinct to ask them to explain the situation.
Also, telling them to go take a walk doesn't work.
- once again this sounds like ordering them to do something, which to an angry person whose brain is acting out of the primal aggressive side isn't a nice thing. Pointing out to them that they seem enraged and out of control and that they could take a break for a bit to calm down and collect their thoughts is a little bit better. They may still perceive this as an order but if you express to them that its only in their interest so that they can better explain their viewpoint calmly after collecting their thoughts and they don't do something they regret. Saying "don't do something you regret" could be taken as a threat, if so reassure them immediately you are not threatening them but have their best interest in mind. Once again if they cannot see this, then leave the situation and don't provoke them, if they attack you stand your ground.
Trying to be nice doesn't work.
- usually not its perceived as passive-aggressiveness to those that are angry, like they are just glossing over your problems with a false happy prozac feel. Isolation really is superior with anger imo than being nice -- eventually they will calm down, think through their anger, and realize they need people. All three of these things are valuable.
Ignoring doesn't work.
- this is where I would disagree. I can see what you mean, but I think isolation is the only cure for anger like I said above. People will calm down, think through things, and realize their need for other people. Ignoring in terms of being fake nice or glossing over things doesn't work.... giving a person the opportunity to collect themselves is valuable. I think anger is a natural thing and is a legitimate feeling -- their are certain situations in which its perfectly acceptable to be angry. The biggest problem with anger though is the way it can be channeled poorly. Glossing over anger is pretending it doesn't exist, its improperly channeling it just as much as acting out ones rages stupidly. You have to find a way to channel it properly, see the big picture. In relationships with people, they have to know you have their back and vice versa, and if you do have their back and you express this with your soul and they can't see it, leave them..... its the only way they will learn, you are doing more than yourself a favor.
I know extremely well several LSEs. And all of them are very cool looking, even when disturbed or angry.
Most of the time, they look calmer then me, even if they are much more concerted inside.
I went out with an LSE once and he said he was having a hard time with his older daughter (SEE) because she isn't the keep things in order type and liked breaking the LSE's rules and defying or having her way. The LSE was trying to "control" that situation
Well, this is the Socionico description of LSE fury
. "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hm... I'm trying to think of my boyfriend and how he behaves...
Ok, so I know four LSEs. All of them quite well, at some point in my life I shared a flat with each of them. (not at the same tinme of course). I don't fall easily into conflict with ST types, they have a sense of calm around them which in general makes me feel secure. I tend to lose my self-control around NT types easily, especially my INTp father or INTj sister.
The best advice I could provide with the knowladge I have (which is not indefinite) is to avoid this kind of people. If someone intimidates you, it's not a good type for you whatever socionics says. My bf does get angry sometimes but I'm not scared of him and I'm always scared of my father outbursts.
I don't actually believe you SHOULD deal with somebody being angry. It's their problem if they cannot control themselves and you shoulnd't spend too much time trying to pacify them. And don't take it personally. If somebody crosses the line, maybe you should limit his "freedom" somehow. Either quit the relationship or just ignore them and think of yourself.
If somebody intimidtes you, he's/she's just not good for you and you should leave before you lose all your energy on changing it.
Yes, I read too many psychological coaching books and I'm biased because I was in a horrible relationship in which I was constantly thinking what should I do to avoid my bf's anger, not to make him angry. If I was too submissive and pacifying, he would thought I behave as a victim, If I were aggressive he was even more aggressive. The best way was to try to keep his mood stable all the time
ble
I would never return to this relationship.
If I become angered I only need out some fumes and I will probably do this realizing the sentimentalism of my own ranting. I can easily apologize and act courteous while I'm angry.
But why should we calm people down when they have something on their heart? Approaching assertively and reasonably tends to yield fruitful results. I usually interrogate angry people and later on inquire what kind of options do they have and what do they consider the worst case scenario. This will force the person to calculate his actions instead of going for the primal response.
There are also some cases where you have to drive it further by courteously agitating the berater in to emotional breakdown. Most people who yell seem like they'd rather cry.
Asking to calm down will seem ignoring and bossy.
Walking away will solve the situation but not the anger of the counterpart.
Also doing something unexpected and/or endearing might make the berater too confused to take further action.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
He look it's Nickleback.
Hey look it's NicklebackPlease give me and example of berating someone. What is said when this happens?
LSE tend to berate people and this picture is kinda a good example of this, and yes the guy IS LSE:
When I see this, I want to scream out, "YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN NOW." Or, I just keep silent and think of flowery fields until the rage subsides.
Maybe Maritsa was seriously verbally abused as a youth and brainwashed into thinking her tormenter was her dual. Huh, I guess everything she says about socionics makes sense now
I think it's funny when people yell at me.
They're usually doing it because they're wrong and shouting is the only way they think they have to over power me.
"[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan
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Generally people yell at others who are wrong in their view. If you find that funny it means you don't give a shit about the truth, which makes you deserving being yelled at or, alternatively, abandoned.I think it's funny when people yell at me.
They're usually doing it because they're wrong and shouting is the only way they think they have to over power me.
IME, LSEs yell at people they care and feel responsible for. Their problem is that they can't see the second option, of disqualification (when it's about their own children it's understandable, though). As dumb Te Egos and Rationals, LSEs anchor themselves, always trying to repair what they have and finish what they start, always thinking there's something that can be done about anything, which is wrong. In the big scheme of things some are simply not worth the effort. "Fact", but go tell them...
I thought this thread was going to be about what makes different people feel like berating someone. I suspect that may be type related.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Lets be honest...
Sometimes people really do need to get a fucking grip.
EIIs especially, amiright?!
Your boyfriend berating you constantly is more because he's an ass than his type.
LSE's yell to cover the noise of their own butthurtedness.
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