Getting the Short End of the Stick

[cherrysidecar]

I feel like this happens to me during most interactions, but my ILE bf says that everyone feels that way after a "negotiation" (his term for social interaction) - like they've been conned.

But I somehow think that ENTjs never feel this way. Probably ESTps too. Thoughts?

[redbaron]

?? During most interactions? What do you mean? Like with friends? You feel conned?

[ashlesha]

do you mean overlooked or one-upped maybe?

[cherrysidecar]

?? During most interactions? What do you mean? Like with friends? You feel conned?

Yeah, even with friends sometimes though not really close ones.

[cherrysidecar]

do you mean overlooked or one-upped maybe?

Kind of one-upped, but more like they got what they wanted and I didn't.

Ex. I was really upset with a close group of friends from college, and I complained to an LIE that I didn't want to talk to them anymore because they were full of shit.

LIE, who was also close with the same group, shrugs and says, "Everyone is full of shit."

I was bowled over by this insight.

[redbaron]

I don't think I've ever felt this way. I guess sometimes I feel like people are subtlety feeling me out for information. But since I can tell when this is happening, I give them the information I want them to have and then I feel like things are even. Also, I am usually better and more subtle than anyone else at that sort of thing. I'm also great at changing the subject of the conversation to THEM and using my genuine appreciating of them as a distraction. People love to talk about themselves. And they love admiration. Self-deprecation can be a form of one-upmanship as well. When you can honestly admit your faults and make fun of yourself, while knowing all the while that you're better than they are at OTHER things, you build both the good will of others and your own self-confidence.

[cherrysidecar]

I don't think I've ever felt this way. I guess sometimes I feel like people are subtlety feeling me out for information. But since I can tell when this is happening, I give them the information I want them to have and then I feel like things are even. Also, I am usually better and more subtle than anyone else at that sort of thing. I'm also great at changing the subject of the conversation to THEM and using my genuine appreciating of them as a distraction. People love to talk about themselves. And they love admiration. Self-deprecation can be a form of one-upmanship as well. When you can honestly admit your faults and make fun of yourself, while knowing all the while that you're better than they are at OTHER things, you build both the good will of others and your own self-confidence.

Are you LIE??

[redbaron]

Are you LIE??

uh.... no. I'm IEI. (with a 5% chance of being either EIE or SEI)

Also, I'm not sure this sort of thing is type-related. At least not completely.

[stray]

An occassional "Naw, fuck that" goes a long way.

[cherrysidecar]

uh.... no. I'm IEI. (with a 5% chance of being either EIE or SEI)

Also, I'm not sure this sort of thing is type-related. At least not completely.

Hmm, maybe. I'm on the young and inexperienced side, and that might have something to do with it.

I do the self-deprecating stuff, the distract them with compliments stuff - but I can't gauge when it works, and when it doesn't work.

[redbaron]

An occassional "Naw, fuck that" goes a long way.

for a woman, using "fuck" too much isn't very mannerly. imo. lol

[redbaron]

Hmm, maybe. I'm on the young and inexperienced side, and that might have something to do with it.

I do the self-deprecating stuff, the distract them with compliments stuff - but I can't gauge when it works, and when it doesn't work.

oh okay. well you'll learn with practice.

[Pa3s]

How often do you get the stick?

[cherrysidecar]

How often do you get the stick?

lolol twice a night and once in the morning

[Pa3s]

Just ftr: In the dictionary I've looked it up, it means "getting beat up", so I hope what you said isn't true.

[Radio]

I just don't get into negotiations where I would feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I mean, if I sense I'm about to be walked over, I make some excuse or at least show reluctance to get out of it. Calling people out on being unfair doesn't work IME, they get defensive and/or angry, but sometimes you can laugh it off and playfully decline and let them negotiate the terms differently until you're satisfied. But then, I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

[cherrysidecar]

Just ftr: In the dictionary I've looked it up, it means "getting beat up", so I hope what you said isn't true.

why would you need a dictionary for that, can't you just look at the context and infer

[Pa3s]

can't you just look at the context and infer

no

[ashlesha]

some people don't speak english as a first language and don't know these expressions.

[cherrysidecar]

can't you just look at the context and infer

no

o right, Te. Well you can't blame me for thinking "how often do you get the stick?" means something along the lines of, "how often do you get dick?" I think mine is better anyhow.

Also, why would you ask me how often I get beat up

[redbaron]

o right, Te. Well you can't blame me for thinking "how often do you get the stick?" means something along the lines of, "how often do you get dick?" I think mine is better anyhow.

Also, why would you ask me how often I get beat up

I took it to mean sexually/playfully spanked.

[cherrysidecar]

I just don't get into negotiations where I would feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I mean, if I sense I'm about to be walked over, I make some excuse or at least show reluctance to get out of it. Calling people out on being unfair doesn't work IME, they get defensive and/or angry, but sometimes you can laugh it off and playfully decline and let them negotiate the terms differently until you're satisfied. But then, I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Yeah I'm a little confused about what I mean myself now; bf explained that I feel this way bc I always want something more emotionally - I want to get to know the person better, I want us to become closer and break down barriers, etc. And that usually doesn't happen, ESP with LIE.

Whereas he (ILE) feels conned bc after the interaction he thinks he could have asked for more, or gotten away with more.

[mu4]

Either you overestimate yourself or you need better friends.

[Pa3s]

Also, why would you ask me how often I get beat up

I took some words of your thread title as if I didn't understand the idiom and used them for a question. However, the meaning of the title and the question I asked are totally different and that's why the question is supposed to be funny. Well, not anymore. Nevermind.

[cherrysidecar]

I took some words of your thread title as if I didn't understand the idiom and used them for a question. However, the meaning of the title and the question I asked are totally different and that's why the question is supposed to be funny. Well, not anymore. Nevermind.

yeah I got that and tried to respond to a joke with a joke but then you had to go and pull out the dictionary.

[Pa3s]

I looked it up before I wrote it, and you didn't seem to know what I meant and assumed you knew. But I don't really feel like dissecting this situation even more, so let's just leave it at that.

[ashlesha]

itt we rule out LII for pa3s conclusively.

also,

[Radio]

Yeah I'm a little confused about what I mean myself now; bf explained that I feel this way bc I always want something more emotionally - I want to get to know the person better, I want us to become closer and break down barriers, etc. And that usually doesn't happen, ESP with LIE.

Whereas he (ILE) feels conned bc after the interaction he thinks he could have asked for more, or gotten away with more.

ah, right. i don't know what to say except ~i kno dees feelz~. ):

[glam]

yeah i've experienced this, especially in the past when i was more prone to letting people walk all over me. part of the reason is due to my tendency to be compromising & accommodating. i think people can get used to this aspect about me; that is, they know that they can often manipulate the situation to their benefit, knowing that i won't usually complain. this does not imply lack of awareness of what they're doing on my part neither does it necessarily imply any maliciousness or desire to screw me over on the other person's part - it's usually just that they are taking care of their own interests... which is what people do. some people may become unpleasantly surprised when i suddenly & unexpectedly refuse to budge on something. i become this way when i lose the desire to be accommodating, perhaps because i feel that the person has gone a little too far, for whatever reason. it could be that they try to get me to sacrifice something i do not want to give up, in order to avoid having to do that themselves. or it may be that they have abused my willingness to go along with what they want (perhaps by asking too much of me), and i have to make it clear that i am not here to continuously give them what they want. etc.

[Finale]

I'm LIE so I'll bite...

As I'm older, I don't believe that all people are full of shit, just most of them.

As far as the feeling you are getting from people, it sounds to me like it stems from low self-esteem that is fueling false expectations of social interaction.

If there are things you want to get from people, they will not give it to you- you have to learn to get it out of them. You can't do that until you can feel comfortable with doing the same to yourself. The addage of "it starts at home" is a good one.

LIE's can often have a brutish, but friendly confidence which allows us to get to the core of people and people do have a tendency to *want* to open up to us because of it. This is why we make good managers, officers, directors, etc. I have one-on-one's with my team every week yet they still also insist on parking in my office to talk about personal stuff too, which I think is quite humbling and nice to have that kind of trust.

Feel better about yourself first... if you feel "conned' from most social interations, it's a product of something deep down that feels this is somehow acceptable. Fix that, and I know your interactions with others will improve. Good luck!

[cherrysidecar]

yeah i've experienced this, especially in the past when i was more prone to letting people walk all over me. part of the reason is due to my tendency to be compromising & accommodating. i think people can get used to this aspect about me; that is, they know that they can often manipulate the situation to their benefit, knowing that i won't usually complain. this does not imply lack of awareness of what they're doing on my part

Yes. I know what they're doing and let them for reasons I can't really pinpoint... maybe I don't see the point of using up energy to complain; maybe I just want to see where they'll go with it; maybe it's just not that interesting so I don't even involve myself.

or it may be that they have abused my willingness to go along with what they want (perhaps by asking too much of me), and i have to make it clear that i am not here to continuously give them what they want. etc.

Yes again, but I really dislike reaching this point.... I feel like the fact that things even got to this point betrays a weakness in me (Te polR, no doubt). Even though I become very firm after this point, I feel like everyone else is thinking, "well why didn't she show us she can be like this from the beginning? Then we wouldn't have pushed."

[cherrysidecar]

I'm LIE so I'll bite...

As I'm older, I don't believe that all people are full of shit, just most of them.

Yeah I feel the same way, but it makes me cynical. The LIE I was talking about felt this way, but it was completely non-emotional - it didn't actually change the way he interacted with others.

As far as the feeling you are getting from people, it sounds to me like it stems from low self-esteem that is fueling false expectations of social interaction.

I don't know if it's low self-esteem; people usually tell me that I'm full of myself. But I definitely have social anxiety, that's for sure. I need to pop a xannie before meetings and conferences just because I can't deal with the 5-10 mins of socializing.

LIE's can often have a brutish, but friendly confidence which allows us to get to the core of people and people do have a tendency to *want* to open up to us because of it. This is why we make good managers, officers, directors, etc. I have one-on-one's with my team every week yet they still also insist on parking in my office to talk about personal stuff too, which I think is quite humbling and nice to have that kind of trust.

The city director of the org I work for is ENTj, and I always involve her in the tussles I get into with minor managers and bosses, because I know she'll at least give the impression of being completely neutral, and will never betray her emotions with what she says. In fact she'll usually get the other person to reveal more by not really doing anything at all. Idk how she does it but I really admire that skill.

[redbaron]

yeah i've experienced this, especially in the past when i was more prone to letting people walk all over me. part of the reason is due to my tendency to be compromising & accommodating. i think people can get used to this aspect about me; that is, they know that they can often manipulate the situation to their benefit, knowing that i won't usually complain. this does not imply lack of awareness of what they're doing on my part neither does it necessarily imply any maliciousness or desire to screw me over on the other person's part - it's usually just that they are taking care of their own interests... which is what people do. some people may become unpleasantly surprised when i suddenly & unexpectedly refuse to budge on something. i become this way when i lose the desire to be accommodating, perhaps because i feel that the person has gone a little too far, for whatever reason. it could be that they try to get me to sacrifice something i do not want to give up, in order to avoid having to do that themselves. or it may be that they have abused my willingness to go along with what they want (perhaps by asking too much of me), and i have to make it clear that i am not here to continuously give them what they want. etc.

I totally relate to this. I'm very accommodating usually and then I'll suddenly stand up for myself and the other person is surprised and I won't budge. Then I'm "stubborn". well hey, whatever. stop taking advantage of me and I'll stop being stubborn.