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Thread: I am still (STILL!) having a hard time telling apart SEI from SLI

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Default I am still (STILL!) having a hard time telling apart SEI from SLI.

    I met someone the other day and I though he was SEI but then sometimes when you first meet people they're a lot more emotional. Excited to meet you or something. And then I started thinking maybe SLI.

    The Si and the Ip temperament seem so obvious. And Fe ought to be obvious too but it's hard to tell what someone's natural state is like. I feel like Fe can be a show at first. How to spot Te>Fe? I mean quickly! How can you spot it quickly?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    I'm the opposite of you redbaron, I find the Fe/Te difference much easier to spot than Ni/Si! It's hard to encapsulate in words, but I can generally tell by how they respond to my emotional cues - whether their responses feel "natural" to me, and I've noticed that if I say something with very little substance and lots of Fe, they tend to give a confused pause before responding. Also Fe-creatives tend to mirror my mood-shifts. It's usually obvious to me after a 3 minute conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    One is merry and the other serious
    One has Te PoLR the other Fe PoLR
    They both love family and relationships and have a lot of the same activities in common
    One can do a ton of excitement and fun, the other does a lot of hobby related stuff like sports and cars.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    If one thinks of the consecutive nature of Si in its relations, it is easier to see the difference in ISTp and ISFp. ISFp tend to revel in what feels good from instance to instance -- it is like hedonism in tiny, tiny fractions between then and now. ISFp's tend to take note of these patterns elsewhere and try to recreate it in the near future via the choices they make now. ISTp's on the other hand, are more likely to recount the truths between instance to instance after thinking about it after some time.

    This is what I have noted when they are in a relaxed mode -- in other words, this is what they prefer they wish they were doing if they were not going full force at, for example, work.

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    SEI's will have more trouble figuring out how to open a door.

    ...In all seriousness, when I run into super stoic ILI-seeming IEI's, one of the ways I tell their type is that they're just as baffled about Te things as I am, despite seeming very smart and together. It's like the crack in the facade lol. Try to do anything with them and it comes out quickly. The same thing probably holds for SEI/SLI.

    Also, eventually if you banter with them the "real" Fe will come out--not so much a display of emotion/excitement as much as a very particular type of curved nuance in the ways that things are stated, usually accompanied by a shift in tone/pitch of voice. Which isn't quantifiable but vastly changes the content of communication. There's something a little flirtatious about Fe imo--it's like testing a certain thing you subtly offer the other person and seeing if the person will "hold" that thing or if you have to "drop" it, if that makes any sense. And you do that over and over at intervals, in different ways. Both Fe-creatives are playful in a way, and, like Octo said, will be able to meet you on this front. SLI's, although capable of being very outwardly emotional, will probably ultimately respond to too much Fe with either a very factually straight-forward response or hesitation.

    And they're much less fluid with emotion--their expressions are often *too* Fe if they're faking it--there's expression but no nuance or variation. And it tends to be attached to either learned social circumstances and/or consistent expressions of like/dislike. For instance, my SLI cousin and I giggle a lot while watching movies together, but a lot of times something horrible yet funny will suddenly happen on screen, and I'll laugh, and then she'll stare at me and go: "...why are you laughing? stop." even though both of us were laughing a moment ago and I subconsciously thought we were "being jovial."
    Last edited by lemontrees; 06-21-2012 at 07:10 AM. Reason: typo :(

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    SEIs are more exuberant and less personal. SLIs tend to be more factual and prone to exchanging useful information, with little interest for small talk and unproductive group activities.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    If one thinks of the consecutive nature of Si in its relations, it is easier to see the difference in ISTp and ISFp.
    Oh yeah, +/- Si can sometimes be telling:

    +Si (Alpha): positive feelings of comfort. They cannot effectively realize their potential if their lifestyle is full of hardships. Style of activity is characterized by relaxation, freedom, by conveniences. Relations with the external environment, where their activities unfold, must be friendly and pleasant. Their groups are always comfortable, relaxed as if at home, and never rough or eccentric.

    -Si (Delta): minmization of discomfort. They value good working conditions and are reluctant to change their routines. This element excludes harmful influences from external environment. This quadra cannot work during emergencies. They highly value convenience, comfort at their workplace, and good coordination at work.

    The part of my life (as an eat-beast) that I've noticed this most with is food choices - generally speaking, SEIs like to try out new restaurants they've read about on food blogs, and go out for posh meals at haute cuisine restaurants for special occasions... SLIs tend to prefer to stick to simple, tried-and-true home-cooked favourites or a favourite dish at a restaurant that no one knows about but they've been eating weekly for the past 20 years.


    Edit: (BTW, descriptions from here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko)
    Last edited by octo; 06-21-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: adding ref
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Which only reminds me of why Betas seem to thrive in crisis and do poorly in complete calm.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Which only reminds me of why Betas seem to thrive in crisis and do poorly in complete calm.
    hkdkkdbsorhxiwobeksi

    Glad I am not the only one who has noticed this
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Which only reminds me of why Betas seem to thrive in crisis and do poorly in complete calm.
    I think on a quadra level, one take that too far. Although Gulenko talked about excluding harmful influences, he also thought SLIs are Vortical/Synergetic, just like IEIs. I've mobilized plenty in emergencies. I don't know what he meant about IEIs mobilizing.. maybe something to do with Fe. That said, I don't get a rush out of crisis, like maybe SLE might say for themselves (and who might even stir that shit up on purpose), but there are enough people to say they were glad I was around when things go bad. Every time I've grumbled about those situations, but it's not that I'm incapable. The fact that I don't like "troubling things" might contribute to me fixing it. Otherwise, I just want to chill.

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    Yeah, if someone suddenly broke into their house, an ENFj would know how to handle it better than I. They'll start screaming like crazy, scaring the shit out of the intruder, who will inevitably panic and run.

    Seriously though, those descriptions are bollocks.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Yeah, if someone suddenly broke into their house, an ENFj would know how to handle it better than I. They'll start screaming like crazy, scaring the shit out of the intruder, who will inevitably panic and run.
    It's probably easier for an SLI to already notice someone creeping at the door before a break in even happens. Then calmly grab a baseball bat, get giddy waiting for them to come in, and then break their knees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    It's probably easier for an SLI to already notice someone creeping at the door before a break in even happens.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Haha.
    Last edited by Park; 06-24-2012 at 12:37 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    How can you spot it quickly?
    maybe this:

    SEI give an impression of 'go with the flow'
    SLI is more 'my way or the high way'

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    It's probably easier for an SLI to already notice someone creeping at the door before a break in even happens. Then calmly grab a baseball bat, get giddy waiting for them to come in, and then break their knees.
    hahahahaha

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    Well I'm probably over-thinking it. He looks like an SLI I used to know so that's influencing me a bit. Thank you for all of your responses!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Way to take the whole ball out of context and run with it, lol -- I meant as a society.

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    Shoot an apple off their head by surprise and watch their reactions.

    well, a more realistic test is watch them in situations of pressure, noise or danger. They are in a way reacting in opposite manners. Bartender in a busy club would definitely be a good job (though perhaps not that rewarding) for a SLI, but not for a SEI. Both IMO tend to have a good kinetic memory - ability to reproduce something they have previously performed - however SEIs are sensitive to the emotional context: for example the prospect of performing an operation of irreversible results (risky, requiring precision) will unbalance the SEI, though such subjective augmentations of the state of things will generally not affect a SLI.

    You may also ask them about their impressions, their feelings about random things. SLIs IME don't answer such requests, while SEIs find them natural, the can easily come up with and develop something pretty rich.

    This is just what comes to my mind, there surely are many other methods to differentiate these two types (I haven't read the thread).
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    -Si (Delta): ... This quadra cannot work during emergencies.
    That is wrong, unless you mean that they are hard to get mobilized and to take notice of what others recognize as "emergencies".
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    ~visual aid~

     






     







    There is a distinct lack of ISTp women in the world. :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Way to take the whole ball out of context and run with it, lol -- I meant as a society.
    Then perhaps you could give an example, and explain what you meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    That is wrong, unless you mean that they are hard to get mobilized and to take notice of what others recognize as "emergencies".
    I like this, actually. There are times when others think it's emergent to do something, and I don't think I should move a finger. It can be the other way around sometimes, but the former is more usual.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    This is the stare I think of when I try to picture Fe-PoLR...
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Park, that was AWESOME; a picture is worth a million words, but a comparison of emotional/physical between two is priceless.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
     




     


    Good point!
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    [IMG]_Simpson_Vector_by_bark2008.png[/IMG]
    I don't get this one. Please explain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I don't get this one. Please explain
    I don't get it either.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I met someone the other day and I though he was SEI but then sometimes when you first meet people they're a lot more emotional. Excited to meet you or something. And then I started thinking maybe SLI.

    The Si and the Ip temperament seem so obvious. And Fe ought to be obvious too but it's hard to tell what someone's natural state is like. I feel like Fe can be a show at first. How to spot Te>Fe? I mean quickly! How can you spot it quickly?
    I think a lot of times, the issue isn't so much "how do you tell this type from that type" or "what is this type like as opposed to that type." The issue is why the individual gives off vibes related to other types (if indeed the person is doing that). I don't think it's that uncommon for Ip types to act Te in certain situations and Fe in others (in response to certain situations or from being around certain people). One could look at the behaviors that suggest both types and then try to determine which ones are a clearer indication of the person's "main" personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    I don't get this one. Please explain
    I don't get it either.
    Me neither.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I'm no Grizzly Adams bearded SLI. Get that hootenanny shit outta here.

    Same goes for Chino XL. Although for different reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    I'm no Grizzly Adams bearded SLI. Get that hootenanny shit outta here.
    I wasn't alone in thinking he looks like an abominable snowman after all.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I met someone the other day and I though he was SEI but then sometimes when you first meet people they're a lot more emotional. Excited to meet you or something. And then I started thinking maybe SLI.

    The Si and the Ip temperament seem so obvious. And Fe ought to be obvious too but it's hard to tell what someone's natural state is like. I feel like Fe can be a show at first. How to spot Te>Fe? I mean quickly! How can you spot it quickly?
    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    I'm the opposite of you redbaron, I find the Fe/Te difference much easier to spot than Ni/Si! It's hard to encapsulate in words, but I can generally tell by how they respond to my emotional cues - whether their responses feel "natural" to me, and I've noticed that if I say something with very little substance and lots of Fe, they tend to give a confused pause before responding. Also Fe-creatives tend to mirror my mood-shifts. It's usually obvious to me after a 3 minute conversation.
    I can't seem to find SEI's for whatever reasons, I've met emotional SLI's(esp girls) who try to be ish but they fail at it and seem really annoying and awkward. I have a couple of SLI friends who are girls who are like this, they try to be girly, but in the end to me they just seen awkward and annoying. They lack the charm and natural grace I find in egos(IEI that I've experienced mainly). I also find them stubborn, cheap and a bit mean, but I still like them. These are both subtype girls so I think this has something to do with it.

    I think people need to think of SXI as types and not as thinker or feelers. The dominant function is still the key to individual personalities and the creative function something that should not be as readily apparent. Perfectionism in expression of PoLR is also very (imo) common to observe and just because individuals may focus overtly on these functions, it does not mean it's their creative function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I can't seem to find SEI's for whatever reasons...
    It must be dual-blindness. I have the same thing with SLIs, although recently I've been having some breakthroughs (after over 6 years of being involved in socionics). As to SEIs, there are plenty of them. I always recognize them, and for some reason, they always seem to single me out from the crowd as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    I think a lot of times, the issue isn't so much "how do you tell this type from that type" or "what is this type like as opposed to that type." The issue is why the individual gives off vibes related to other types (if indeed the person is doing that). I don't think it's that uncommon for Ip types to act Te in certain situations and Fe in others (in response to certain situations or from being around certain people). One could look at the behaviors that suggest both types and then try to determine which ones are a clearer indication of the person's "main" personality.
    Values are contagious, yeah. Think of what phrases like this mean: "<Type> is the <Role> of the Socion; he imbues people around with <View>". I mean, such statements occur often in the descriptions of types, and there is no reason to believe that they refer only to the Dual or the Quadra of the said type. Also we can find in history currents that affect a large majority of the population which can easily be associated with certain values of the Socion: trends, schemes, national/group identities, religion, mass delusions, whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    They lack the charm and natural grace I find in egos(IEI that I've experienced mainly). I also find them stubborn, cheap and a bit mean, but I still like them.
    . But what do you mean by "cheap" about SLIs?... I often find those who open up to be very deep, actually (more than a Te type is allowed to be ). I had the chance to hang out lately with a SLI guy and a Delta girl (separately), they kinda impressed me with their authenticity in many respects... BTW, I connected them and it seems it goes perfectly. He told me touchy things regarding, you know, relationships & stuff - generally after a beer or two in the beginning - that I couldn't imagine a SLI could tell. Though it is true that I am myself talking much touchy (but honest) shit lately, I don't think he would tell those things to anyone. It is a special context, we both broke-up relatively recently, had fresh memories of emotional anguish, and so on, things will definitely change in a year or so, IMO.
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    . But what do you mean by "cheap" about SLIs?... I often find those who open up to be very deep, actually (more than a Te type is allowed to be ). I had the chance to hang out lately with a SLI guy and a Delta girl (separately), they kinda impressed me with their authenticity in many respects... BTW, I connected them and it seems it goes perfectly. He told me touchy things regarding, you know, relationships & stuff - generally after a beer or two in the beginning - that I couldn't imagine a SLI could tell. Though it is true that I am myself talking much touchy (but honest) shit lately, I don't think he would tell those things to anyone. It is a special context, we both broke-up relatively recently, had fresh memories of emotional anguish, and so on, things will definitely change in a year or so, IMO.
    Cheap as in frugal and not generous, and overly concerned about money while pretending it doesn't "matter".

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Cheap as in frugal and not generous, and overly concerned about money while pretending it doesn't "matter".
    Oh, I understand. Though, they *always* pay their debts (in a more extreme way than the other Ip's), they don't pretend it didn't happen like some others. I think it's kinda Fe-Bas'ish wrongful intrusion to judge them regarding that aspect. Yes, I know, the "Christmas Carol" lesson & shit, but I can see their point, and honestly, I find that deprecation just unfair...
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  38. #38
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    There is something I perceive and an injustice that I use to make because of my indifference, which is pretty disturbing. You know, there are these people who easily accept favors - even money - who are not that eager to give them back. Being a generous, or simply a "whatever" person, you just let it go like that. But there are these people who insist in giving you back yours - in my experience Delta Irrationals excelling at this - and because of the same mildness, you accept their compensation pretty easily. This is actually hard to think about because we try to avoid remorses, what it means when the former kind accepts (sometimes encourage) generosity even when they have more, while the latter refuse it even when they go through hardship. This is sad, because when you are involved and draw the bottom line, you realize that you are pasively involved in a loathsome act of injustice...

    Maybe I am in a Delta mood nowdays (so don't take this as my persistent mindset), but I have recent concrete cases. One example: I lent money to my parents. It is hard to make my mother (ESE) give them back. If she has, she spends. She often suggests me to make generous acts towards her "just because", thing which I often agree with. :| On the other hand, my father (IEE) is struggling more because of several circumstances, and I asked him to keep the sum he needed because I have given the same amount to my mother - in fact along the time I have given much more to her, I think. But he refused, he said he isn't concerned about my business with her, he will have to pay me back. *I accepted*, it was "his wish", but only after I did that, I realized what my position is: while I understand the motives of both, objectively I am serenlely taking from the principled and I am giving to the self-induglent - yes, generosity, friendship or familial relationships are objective justifications for ownership. I feel like I'm making part of some Fe-flavored grotesque grinning clique. There is no room for interpretation, it is fucking clear as daylight that I've been a hypocrite, period.

    Don't get me wrong, I am selfish, I'm thinking only about my happiness, this is why I am not going to let my conscience torment me! So yea, this is the background of the reasons why, as of this time, I cannot agree with that criticism - although probably justified - against the SLI (three friends I recently wronged in favor of other friends this way are of this type).
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    There is something I perceive and an injustice that I use to make because of my indifference, which is pretty disturbing. You know, there are these people who easily accept favors - even money - who are not that eager to give them back. Being a generous, or simply a "whatever" person, you just let it go like that. But there are these people who insist in giving you back yours - in my experience Delta Irrationals excelling at this - and because of the same mildness, you accept their compensation pretty easily. This is actually hard to think about because we try to avoid remorses, what it means when the former kind accepts (sometimes encourage) generosity even when they have more, while the latter refuse it even when they go through hardship. This is sad, because when you are involved and draw the bottom line, you realize that you are pasively involved in a loathsome act of injustice...
    I don't think I have ever acted outside the box of what you're describing. My ESE mom's attitude towards these things has always been pretty disappointing and bothersome. I've been trying to accept this kind of things as just a part of people's individuality, but there are certain things I'll never approve of in principle.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    Shoot an apple off their head by surprise and watch their reactions.

    well, a more realistic test is watch them in situations of pressure, noise or danger. They are in a way reacting in opposite manners. Bartender in a busy club would definitely be a good job (though perhaps not that rewarding) for a SLI, but not for a SEI.

    You may also ask them about their impressions, their feelings about random things. SLIs IME don't answer such requests, while SEIs find them natural, the can easily come up with and develop something pretty rich.
    Well, I can only speak for myself but I get extremely irritated in situations of pressure, noise and danger and in situations where there is a lot going on. It gets to the point where I can't function and basically just have to leave or start snapping and losing my temper. I would probably have an anxiety attack if I were put in a situation to be something like a bartender or whatever. But I think that's probably related to being an E6 so just ignore that...maybe? I dont know. I'm just a little confused when people portray SLI's as basically robots with no feelings of anxiety and no feelings at all...I'm not good at self perception but I never thought I was a cold person. I don't talk about feelings and I'm not overly affectionate but I don't think those that know me would call me cold. Possibly on first impression but I don't know...I feel like I'm a very relatable person. I can relate and be friends with anyone. What does this have to do with anything...I don't know.

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