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Thread: Alpha SF problems: I'm of no use!

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    Default Alpha SF problems: I'm of no use!

    ---
    Last edited by Aivonaima; 10-18-2012 at 03:38 AM.
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    nickelslick's Avatar
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    I refuse to build any space rockets until someone guarantees that there will be cookies.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Hey, spare a thought for us beta NFs. We can't even bake cookies, all we can do is pretend to have magical shaman abilities then shoot ourselves in a bunker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    1) Buy power tools 2) use power tools 3) become useful
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    1) Buy power tools 2) use power tools 3) become useful
    How do I do this thing you speak of?
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    just jesting ... never mind.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    There are no cookies in outer-space.

    I think it's pretty obvious who has the more valuable skill...

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
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    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I was exploring a deserted house with two alpha NTs, ILE and LII, and the ILE one of them kept constantly telling me how all my suggestions of how we could break into the house without causing a big mess were totally Te-PoLR ("but in a cute way") and I started feeling like I had the most useless ego functions ever.
    So? Isn't being horribly offensive to your friends a big Fi POLR fail? What good are they to criticize you? What good is building a rocket-ship if you have no friends to show it off to, nobody who wants to be around you?

    Truth is we all have great potential inside us. It may save you emotional energy if you associate with people who encourage you, rather than discourage you.

    P.S. Did you end up breaking into the house?

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    If anything, I have met alpha SFs who are extremely smart and achiever. And I have also met alpha NTs who are popular and diplomatic. Dualize, people!
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    . willekeurig's Avatar
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    What's admirable about Alpha SF:s imo is their ability to not take things too personally and adapt to different, even unpleasant situations and people so naturally. Their ability to smooth over awkwardness and cheer others is a skill I bet many would kill for. Also, their Si.. from a Se polr's point of view it's totally comparable to magic. It's not just about the cookies and comforts (that are great), but also the way they move and carry their bodies. You can see from afar how perfectly connected they are to the physical world and it's just plain beautiful to me. I can spend ages watching my Alpha SF friends skate or dance and never get bored.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 03-19-2014 at 11:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    FoxOnStilts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    What's admirable about Alpha SF:s imo is their ability to not take things too personally and adapt to different, even unpleasant situations and people so naturally. Their ability to smooth over awkwardness and cheer others is a skill I bet many would kill for.
    So much this. A lot of time, alpha SF comes up with ideas that I have to be like, "Wellllllll....its a good idea, but it's not very practical....", but I can find a way to twist it, minimize it, and make it work better. You guys are also very good as sounding boards. You're good at listening to me rant and ramble about my latest obsession or ideas, and point out a side of things I hadn't considered that makes me see the issue differently and better resolve it.

    On you're own, you're good at taking things you know and working those to your advantage; I feel like once an alpha SF does something, they store it away in a filing cabinet and can look up all the things they've done before to apply in any situation. You guys are very handy to have around. "*wail* my waterproof jacket isn't waterproof anymore; its too old i don't want a new one; I am sentimentally attached to this one; I don't care if water seeps through it, it has GIANT POCKETS THAT ARE MORE IMPORTANT." "There's actually this stuff I used a few years ago *rattles off technical details of things that can make a raincoat waterproof again*"

    I feel like I'm always trying to find a new, creative way of doing something with little. I try to be MacGuyver and take what little things I have to make something that will patch together what I need, but SEIs are just like, "You know, you can get xyz for like $2 and it'll fix that in a half hour." >>;

    So you're good for more than just cookies and milk. But I can see how an alpha SF would feel a bit left out when it comes to plotting or planning things.
    Last edited by FoxOnStilts; 06-19-2012 at 07:00 PM.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    My fellow students have all kinds of types. As far as I can see, there are probably two SEIs and two IEEs among them. But then again, our job involves not "planning" for the purpose of finding a fact-based strategy to keep the city working in a most efficient way, but rather to make things prettier by creating cool concepts and also check out how things will develop over time (both regarding aesthetics and functionality).
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I was exploring a deserted house with two alpha NTs, ILE and LII, and the ILE one of them kept constantly telling me how all my suggestions of how we could break into the house without causing a big mess were totally Te-PoLR ("but in a cute way") and I started feeling like I had the most useless ego functions ever.
    She said we could slice the window glass with a knife!

    You still were the most important member of our expedition group imo. Your presence was a heavy motivational factor to me.

    Remember that functions are about the modes of information. Although they usually do correlate with skills, but that's mostly because some types are more prone at adopting certain roles in life which will naturally develop skills needed. Keep in mind that your life's ultimate goal is something that is very suitable for SEIs.

    If you would have been a Logical type (which are generally considered more "useful" or "practical"), then there would have been a great chance for you to become socially crippled when keeping in mind some of your asocial tendencies. That would have been counter-productive towards your goals as well.

    Homo Sapiens is a pack animal so the ability to cheer up, communicate, make other's laugh etc are very valuable skills in themselves. It just doesn't manifest that clearly in the tangible world.

    And it's not like your Dual is the most practical type either. "Hey look at me I can imagine abstract but logically cohesive structures."
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    . willekeurig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    She said we could slice the window glass with a knife!

    I can see how Te could be one of the most painful functions to have as polr, but it is quite endearing sometimes, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    What can we deduce from what has been said itt:
    If everyone was like x, x would be equal to being fucked.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    yeah, its true. your type is kind of useless.

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    She said we could slice the window glass with a knife!
    NOOOo WHY DID YOU TELL THEMMMMMMM
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    NOOOo WHY DID YOU TELL THEMMMMMMM
    Glass cutter?

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    Glass cutter?
    The diamond-tipped thing you can see on heist movies would have worked. When I mentioned this, she backed off.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    SHUT UP AQUAGRAPH
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Phthalate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    She said we could slice the window glass with a knife!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph
    The diamond-tipped thing you can see on heist movies would have worked. When I mentioned this, she backed off.
    These have to be the most adorable things I've read today hahahahaha.
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    She said we could slice the window glass with a knife!
    This reminds me of a story from my childhood.

    When I was in the lower grades in elementary school (1-2 maybe) I used to share the way with a girl from the neighborhood who also went to the same class (before she moved away). So we walked to the school together occasionally. Since it's pretty dark in the winter when school starts she took a flashlight with her one day. Right outside her house, she switched it on, but it was just faintly glowing. She tried again switch it off and back on, but nothing happened. Then she sticked it in the snow upside-down (for some reason) and tried it again and ta-da! it worked, the beam was strong and bright. Of course she was like "OMG, snow charges batteries!!!!" and I replied something like "Uhm, no. The flashlight had some defective contact and you holding it upside down fixed it for the moment." However, she saw what she saw and insisted on the fact that the snow had actually charged the batteries and that's why it worked.

    Sigh.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    And it's not like your Dual is the most practical type either. "Hey look at me I can imagine abstract but logically cohesive structures."
    Actually, I was watching Looney Tunes at work and thinking how Wiley E Coyote could easily have been an ILE. He would have REALLY benefited from an dual.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Sigh.
    Te valuing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phthalate View Post
    These have to be the most adorable things I've read today hahahahaha.
    Te Polr valuing.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Te valuing.
    My frustration was less based on the weird/unreasonable conclusion, but rather on the fact that she insisted on her explanation of this phenomenon.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I used to (or actually still do sometimes) pretend to be stupid and insist on silly explanations just to see the more, uhh, uptight kind go bonkers over it.
    You are a terrible, terrible person.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    But it is cute!
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Listen. I bet you are really fun to be around. Don't worry about being the most brilliant or w/e. I have found out the things I don't feel are insightful are incredibly insightful to others. Just be yourself, be , and just enjoy yourself when you hang out. Good things will come of it.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    Know the feeling?
    Yes.

    There are so many things to say about this...

    I think it's easier for ESEs to find a job they like and feel useful. SEIs are often more lost.

    SEIs should not fear Te situations too much. That's when it really becomes a problem. It is very important to learn some routine in these situations, to be prepared. That's the way to fight the polr, to meet it half way. Let someone else deal with the tricky logistical problems, but learn some basic skills in logistics, because it is needed in almost any job.

    Artistically talented SEIs should go for art, design, crafts, music imo. But most SEIs are not talented, of course. That's always an exception regardless of type.

    Or "art" in the broader sense of the word. Some SEIs work with lighting in studios, or audio mixing etc. I think this is a good idea.

    A mediator, someone who helps people, service. That's what socionics suggests. SEIs can be great at this, but it requires some work experience to free one's talents, because there are often other things involved that need to be learned.

    I think it's better to put dreams aside, at least for awile, and try to do what one is actually good at. It can be a surprise.

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    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post

    What if you're dreaming of doing something you're good at?
    That's how it should be

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    Bake more cookies and feelings of uselessness are going to go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I'm baking a cake and eating cookies I baked yesterday. Still feeling useless. Cookies are of no use in, say, a zombie breakout.
    An SEI once told me that cooking is no different than doing chemical lab work. They both involve mixing things together in a certain way. We'll definitely need your help in mixing and creating different chemicals needed to fight off that zombie breakout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I'm baking a cake and eating cookies I baked yesterday. Still feeling useless. Cookies are of no use in, say, a zombie breakout.
    I never baked anything and I'm not useless. As for zombies toss that cake and cookies in their head. This way you're going to put your skills to good use.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    Cookies are of no use in, say, a zombie breakout.
    You could at least die first to buy time for the useful people to get away.

    That's a valuable talent.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    I used to think like that when I was a kid!

    But now I know better... I know @octo will be doing the chemistry and I'll just buy others time by throwing a cake at the zombies and dying. :[
    You wouldn't die! Your super SEI powers and cake would placate even the most savage of zombies.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Throw flour at the zombies, make them sneeze, the power of the sneeze explodes them!

    Or cook your friends into such delicious meals that they forget about eating you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    I think as an SEI it's difficult not to feel useless. To top it off, many work situations in fields that SEI's don't suck at will have LSE's in positions of power.

    Hmm, as an SEI I feel that part of the feeling of uselessness stems from a lack of autonomy. I often feel that I need an external source or guide to "help" me accomplish desires, etc, that others can easily do alone. This is a bitch because I'd much rather be an autonomous person. I also often have the sense that there are things I'd like to do, I just can't figure out how--it's not laziness, per se.

    As for careers that SEI's "should" be good at:

    I've noticed this trend in young writers that SLI's/ILI's will tend to do better than SEI's/IEI's, despite Fe-PolR in their writing--because they know better how to build their careers. I'd imagine that something similar goes on in the visual arts as well, particularly as a) a large segment of the contemporary art scene is digital/ conceptual (no particular advantage to being SEI there) and b) to be successful in such a field takes a lot of energy directed towards connection-making, self-promotion, etc etc.

    SLI's tend to be better than SEI's at graphic design, I think. ESE's/LSE's will tend to be better at jobs such as interior design, styling, etc, etc, as those sorts of jobs take a certain degree of logistical adroitness combined with an ability to handle difficult clients. Although adept in personal kitchens, SEI's can be weak links in commercial kitchens, which run on a high-stress atmosphere (lots of yelling) and require maximum efficiency/precision.

    As for academia (the other side of literature/the arts) EIE's/IEI's have an advantage because they're much more adept at manipulating ideas in their heads.

    Anyway basically we're doomed.

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    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    Fuck this "You must be useful to society" bullshit. It's all a racket, foisted upon and perpetuated by the charmed and myopic to exorcise the creeping realization that, if they died, no one would miss them after a decade or two. There are 7 billion of our parasitic, self-serving race of hairless apes leeching the fuck out of this earth to no purpose but our own perpetual self-propagation. Sure, some engineers are working to mitigate the dileterious effect our existence has on the biosphere, but that's simply self-preservation. The fact is, most people are of no use to anyone but those in their immediate social circle. We may feign importance, but ultimately, the vast majority of everyone who has ever lived contributed little of lasting value.

    Most non-SEI people are not rocket scientists, brain surgeons, biomedical engineers, et al. Most people are going about their lives, with a sphere of influence that is rather limited in scope. Some are slaving it in the thankless grind of our agricultural or manufacturing foundation, others frittering their lives away as cogs in self-perpetuating systems like academia or insurance or marketing which produce very little of anything that addresses our primal needs. Have you seen what goes on in a law firm? Or witnessed what sort of discussion happens in most board rooms? Or listened to pharmaceutical reps go through their rap? Dear God. Most people do jack shit most of the time. The salt of the earth (ethical doctors, nurses, those actually working to find solutions to environmental and social issues) are few and far between. Perhaps you will be one of them. Perhaps not. If not, you're not alone. Very few are cut out for that level of service.

    So go on, girl. BAKE you cookies. Bake the fuck out of those cookies. It's more than what most of us really do most days anyway.
    Last edited by Animal; 06-20-2012 at 02:48 AM.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

  39. #39
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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  40. #40
    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    itt SEIs get patted in the back.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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