Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[idealistichick]

I luv Buffy even though the characters annoyed me. I think Buffy is ENFj.

[KSpin]

Yeah, I've never been able to watch Buffy. It did seem extremely... weird to me. I much prefer Joss Whedon's other work. Namely Firefly.

[Khamelion]

Angel seems like an dominant... funny cause he's a vampire Probably INFj, imo. Actually ISFj could work too.
I do think that Angel & Buffy are very similar : mirrors.

Ooo yeah, Fi dominant. They show him before he was a vampire too, like flash backs. I can't tell between INFj and ISFj, but I agree that he and Buffy are very similar

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well Buffy the person it's hard to say. I think the writers definitely have a -bias in the traditional sense but it's like remember when Buffy first started out she was a very popular cheerleader and seemed to care way more about than then she befriended the nerds for whatever reason and become a lot more about meaningful relationships with a few people, but it's like she was forced that way because she was the slayer not because of who she naturally is. Sometimes I think it's even hinted in the show that a person that 'perky' wouldn't have been friends with Xander or Willow necessarily. She kind of had their back (and they had hers) because the synergy worked out in the work place kind of more than true friends. Anyway that's one way to look at it. I think she eventually did grow to really love Willow and Xander but at her old high school she would ignore them. Maybe even made fun of them but she didn't seem like a Cordelia type.

Remember Buffy just wanted to be a normal girl she really didn't bask in her specialness like I think a true type would. I know if I became a hero I would be all 'oo I'm special now' (which is precisely the reason why I probably won't be chosen for anything) How can you not let your ego get in the way of that? Buffy had a hard time juggling with that herself.

I don't think her having -leading is too out of the question. I think maybe we can get to see the REAL real Buffy now that she shares her power with the girls. Maybe...

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I've been thinking, if Buffy is really a Delta show and not a Beta one. Cause, I used to be hugely obsessed with Buffy. But the more I realize it, the more it's like the show tries to 'change me' instead of just accepting who I am or something. It's like every episode is supervising what I'm doing with my life or something, it's annoying.

Here are some arguements for Delta:

*Like a poster said before, Buffy seems awfully like an estj. She can be bossy, gives orders a lot. She told Johnathon (probably an INFp) things take 'time and effort.' if somebody told that to me, even if they were right, I'd probably roll my eyes at them and get angry and try to ruin their romantic life or something.

*Magic is done in a very practical, realistic Delta way. Being a mage is sort of like having a job not something that is really personal empowering, unless you prove that you are really sorry about whatever. This seems like Delta manipulation tactics more than anything Beta. In fact, mage-users suffer more than anything else. The show goes over the top to make magic more subdued and realistic, which isn't my style. Just let me throw a fucking fireball already.

*Buffy is more harsh with the outcasts, and defends the normal in society people more actually. Every episode revolves around a social outcast not fucking up or using their outcast status to do anything wrong. I think a true Beta would make a different judgment on this. For example, I didn't really see anything wrong with Marcie attacking Harmony and the others. It seemed to just be a natural consequence of the environment or something. Every Big Lesson Of The Day is mainly directed at a Loser Emo Artist and not a normal person. This could possibly mean that Joss knows the losers 'know better' or something, but really the criticisms are relentless.

So in other words, it really doesn't challenge anything, except the idea that women are weaker. The show was much, much more about how you can't use being different as an excuse for anything. I don't see how this is so popular with nerds and dorks, because it criticizes us waaaay more than it does anything else.

*Buffy takes itself way too seriously like Deltas stereotypically do, and has a complex that it always has the moral upper hand. Buffy also is confident that she can play therapist to the world, which is a similar situation Betas and Deltas find themselves in. (Betas get forced into therapy by Delta therapists)

*The show seems scared of introspection in a Ni-polr like way. They feel they have to 'show don't tell.' They just try too hard, like stuffy academic professors.

I just gave an example in my 16type story where I killed a bunch of regular humans and I didn't feel guilty. Buffy goes at a much slower pace and any human thats killed gets mourned over as being an ethical wrong. I obviously do not share this belief. I do get some of my ideas from Joss, as I do think he's a brilliant writer. But I'm leaning much, much closer to INFj then INFp now.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

i also would like to say that in all reality IEIs are more like 'The First Evil' than anything else. Joss really values the material world and things in it, and thinks that thoughts are 'bad things.' IEIs are very pure thoughty types. And IEIs understand the weaknesses of society and others very well, though we wouldn't be sociopathic or cruel like the First was, unless....we were sociopaths. Of course. =p

I just realize I do not over identify with the material world. I identify in the realm of thoughts and ideas, where the 'First' lives, the same thing that Joss says NO NO HUMANS, DON'T GO THERE. Of course he's just trying to make you feel guilty so you buy the buffy merchandise or whatever. =/ It's so transparent to me.

[1981slater]

IMO, the demons, vampires and monsters represent Beta quadra, and Buffy and her friends, Delta. Anyway, the geek team is surely a blend of alpha and gamma NTs.

[krieger]

Buffy is ESTj, in my opinion. The other characters are mostly alpha:
Oz: INTj
Willow : ISFp
Xander : ENTp
Giles : ESTj (possibly ESFj. mostly just very clearly Ej and Si using. I think the actor plays a LOT of ESFj roles so that is what I would type him as)
Cordelia : ESFj (a more obvious one than Giles)
Angel: ISFj or ESTj
Spike: ENTj

The theme of the series is that of protecting a comfortable world from evil, which is Delta > Beta.

Angel could well be the part of the series that focusses more on Gamma characters, particularly if Angel is ISFj like I suspect.

[jughead]

I'll agree with most of your typings, I'd like some more opinions on buffy though. Types for Sarah Michelle Gellar I've seen Ti-Istj btw (socionix forum)
More...I must know the their closest typings.
The other characters are mostly alpha:
Oz: INTj Unsure but seems alot like willow, another Isfp?
Willow : ISFp Yes def
Xander : ENTp For sure, likely same type in real life
Giles : ESTj (possibly ESFj. mostly just very clearly Ej and Si using. I think the actor plays a LOT of ESFj roles so that is what I would type him as)
Dunno.

Cordelia : ESFj (a more obvious one than Giles) Definetly
Angel: ISFj or ESTj Dunno
Spike: ENTj Def seems more Ni/Se

[krieger]

Oz: INTj Unsure but seems alot like willow, another Isfp?

He's liable to make those typical obnoxious Ti comments like "comparing this curse to kryptonite is a false metaphor, kryptonite kills." He's also the extreme of quiet, calm and inert, not socially active and fragile like ISFp. INTj to the max.

[jughead]

Ok I'll agree with that just needed a reminder of his Ti and what it felt like in interaction.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm glad you guys agree.

It's sort of funny and sad that my whole love for Buffy was a complete conflictor relationship. Cause the more I realize it the more I'm like the bad guys they killed or the bad humans they tried to change or reform. =/

[Zed]

Why do people on this forum try to type fictional characters? The scripts for television shows are often written by different writers every episode. Why would Buffy's type stay static? Am I missing something?

[marooned]

Personally I think that even if Buffy is a "Delta show" that this doesn't mean that people of other quadras can't enjoy it or find anything meaningful in it... and even if it is a "Delta show" I'm sure there are themes in it reflecting other quadras. (I'm not convinced it is a Delta show but I haven't really seen very much of it. For one, I think the show had a large focus on breaking social stereotypes, which I usually see Beta as the quadra most interested in that. Stereotypes represent ways of thinking and categorizing and I think that Ti quadras can be more outwardly sensitive to them because of this and that Beta has a focus on "revolutionizing" one way of thinking with another one that is now "correct" and starting social movements to bring widespread change.)

[krieger]

Why do people on this forum try to type fictional characters? The scripts for television shows are often written by different writers every episode. Why would Buffy's type stay static? Am I missing something?

I only type fictional characters when they are portrayed in a stable and consistent way and when the type of the actor matches that of the character. People try to write fiction in a way that is believable, and in the case of characters that means portraying them consistently with a really existing socionics type. In as far as the writers have done their job well, typing their characters tends not to lead to great contradictions.

It's sort of funny and sad that my whole love for Buffy was a complete conflictor relationship.

I think this is more common than most people think. Some of my favorite actors and characters include ESFps. The "conflict" thing really exists only on the level of direct personal interaction. From a distance, a conflictor can be source of inspiration and view into a world different from your own that is mysteriously attractive.

I also think Josh Whedon's type is probably IxFp despite that a lot of his hero characters are ESTjs (Buffy, but also Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly, in my opinion).

[Krig the Viking]

I'm of the opinion that Buffy is ESE. Sarah Michelle Gellar certainly is. She's forced to deal with serious, practical situations due to her "job" as the Slayer, but I think her behaviour in the more relaxed, social scenes is more Fe than Te. Also, remember when she came back from the dead and moped around all emo for a whole season? I don't see a base Te type being that overtly moody. It was classic "depressed ESE".

Giles, on the other hand, is more clearly LII. Buffy relies on him for guidance, to analyze the true nature of the threat of the week. His whole job on the show is research and analysis, clear LII territory.

As for the rest, I don't have quite as strong an opinion, but for what it's worth:

Oz: not sure. I can see the case for Ti, but I can see the case for a lot of things.
Willow : ISFp makes sense, I agree.
Xander : ENTp is possible, as has been suggested.
Cordelia : ESFx. She comes across as more SEE to me, initially, but later on, especially in the Angel series, she seems more ESE. Hard to say.
Angel: Haven't thought about it. David Boreanaz is ESE, I think, but I don't think Angel is. Some kind of Introvert, I think.
Spike: Some kind of Irrational type, I think. Not sure.

The show is clearly Alpha oriented. The wordplay, the silly irreverent humour, etc. The fanbase is mostly Alpha NT geeks. However, I do think you have a point that much of the show revolves around Si/Ne = Good, Se = Bad. The bad guys are often concerned with Se image and power, while the intrepid good guys go about uncovering the true Ne nature of the bad guys. And then killing them and returning home to relax and hang out. Magic is, as you said, not about being impressive and showy (Se), but is in some cases portrayed as very sensual (Si). I don't really see Buffy being more harsh with outcasts than with anyone else. The Mayor wasn't exactly an outcast. She just kills evil monsters, who by nature tend to stay on the fringes of society, so as not to be discovered. "More scary things lurk in the shadows than most normal people are aware of" is a theme of the show, which strikes me as Ne (uncovering the "true nature" of the world).

[krieger]

Giles as a character I could see as INTj (with a lot of effort), but calling the actor that type just makes no sense at all in light of the kind of role he generally gravitates to (which kills the idea of typing the character as whole as such as far as I'm concerned).

His whole job on the show is research and analysis, clear LII territory.

The "research" part is more of a Te thing, imo. Not something INTjs like or are even good at. INTjs would spend their time developing their own ideosyncratic, speculative theories on what is going on, not try to find the answers in books in the precise way Giles does. His style isn't INTj like that. Giles is above all a mature and responsible person, which indicates Serious values. INTjs are more about upholding a shallow pretense of maturity and responsibility (role Fi) while going after their own interests in the meantime.

Buffy has a generally negative attitude, is defined by her restrictions and duties. That's Serious and Negativist working in unison to eliminate the possibility of her reasonably being called ESFj. You could say it's just her circumstances that force her to be like this, but when does she ever display the other kind of behavior - what is the reason for calling her Fe despite this? She is pretty negative to her friends too. The most relaxed she ever gets is in her Si mode.

Another argument against ESFj is her high level of maturity; compare her to Cordelia in this regard. The latter is far more childish than the former.

depressed ESE".

That's almost an oxymoron. ESFjs are pretty much the most positive and happy type in the socion. They tend to bounce back from emotional distress and put on their "happy face" again extremely quickly. The emo parts of her role aren't exactly typical ESTj behaviors, but they aren't very typical of ESFjs either.

[Kaze]

Faith is the only SLE and they treat her like shit. Fuck this show

[jughead]

Yeah but the actor who plays Faith seems kinda dumb in general...But if you had no favorable intertype relations and had opposing quadras you probably would look like a dumbass because of the lack of success. She just seems so damn blank. And her humour sucks. Playing along with alphas to fit in takes the edge off but more likely another the writing is a shallow interpretation of a person and a type is a real person. Def not a dynamic type. If you were to give her a subtype it would be SE no?


Buffy sorta ignores faith until she does fucked up shit and has to rectify it, xander sees her point but won't go there (role SE), and giles tries to convice shes bad because of her impusive ways but gets is ignored. Not so sure about the role giles plays. I'd have to see the show again. Weskey plays a rational british douche.

[Kaze]

I don't know much about the actress, but the portrayal isn't so bad imo. I can identify with her a little bit. It's exaggerrated, but the basic differences with the Buffy group are realistic enough (insomuch as a show with vampire hunting cheerleaders isn't even realistic ).

I haven't seen the show in awhile, but I recall the group getting alarmed even before she went really over the top. I think a "Beta" friendly show would have at least resolved her character in a way that supported her approach, albeit in somewhat of a corrective way. Instead, she became someone who had to be completely reformed.

The show really doesn't leave much room for anyone with an attitude. After Faith, Spike was next to go through the grinder. He's probably not a Beta, but either way, by the end of the show, he was completely castrated.

[jughead]

...and then the show was canceled

[marooned]

(since others brought up character types and this thread is more recent...) I've watched large portions of several episodes of this show (I like Angel much better still and for some reason still don't seem to feel hooked to Buffy and I don't know why as of yet... I mean what does it take for something to sink its hooks in and get a good hold... but I currently don't believe I will at all get hooked to this show), but anyway, I have gathered some automatic type impressions, which are

Buffy - I don't know... I was batting around Gamma SF but something feels wrong about it... was also wondering about EIE and oddly SLE sometimes (but not seriously)

Willow - I don't know once again, maybe Ne/Si, but I'm really not sure about that

Jiles - LSI (this one jumped out) and I think it's fine with his bookish intellectualism (this character's kind of similar to Wesley on Angel, although I don't know what type I'd see Wesley as). I could maybe consider LII, but I think I see Se-ish-ness there.

Xander - again, don't know (ILE was suggested in a different thread and maybe that could work)

Spike - EIE (I think this one fits, but it's only from S6-7 and I have my suspicions this character is inconsistent and screwy... I feel like once again I don't know how to make a "person" out of the mess of these vampire characters... with souls, without souls, oh and then when chips in the brain are involved... I wish it was more organic rather than all chunky... then the writers wouldn't have to go to such gymnastics to try to push the range of the character because it wouldn't be all fixed in the first place... although I guess you could say it gives them even more leeway with the characters allowing for a few limited variations of the character that contrast rather extremely with one another in a way you couldn't do with a regular person sort of character)

Angel(us) - I don't know... some ethical sensor perhaps, or at least sensor? Seems more Se valuing than not. Not sure about the consistency of this character either between the two shows especially... but anyway I like this character. (Arguably Angel and "Angelus" aren't even the same type?)

Cordelia - some ethical extrovert... ESE? SEE? EIE?

Dawn - SEI?

Well, I guess my only "revelations" were Jiles and Spike. Oh well.

Edit... not that this matters really in actually typing them, but the issue I have with the vampire characters is just at what point are you not you anymore when you're turned into one (and where does your experience go)... the soul apparently goes racing out of your body at some point... so does it take all of the essence of "you" with it leaving only a demon that somehow got in there that has access to your brain matter and hence memories... But then I remember there was some episode of Angel where Darla returned and apparently she'd been in hell after her "death" and so what had been in hell because how could her original soul be in hell when it just ran off when her body was turned and therefore didn't do anything wrong... so it must have been her vampire essence in hell (or perhaps it's just a sort of drop of hell, as most of the vampires just seem like hell itself having taken over a dead body because they're not people anymore, but things). Then there's the matter of Angelus being cursed with Angel's soul which also confuses me... I suppose this would cause a lot of suffering for Angelus who is apparently trapped in there while Angel runs the show (so it's like being a prisoner)... but why is it necessary for Angel to suffer constantly when his soul had nothing to do with the horrors committed by Angelus since it wasn't even there while Angelus was committing them... and so it seems also that Angel only feels remorse for all of it because the brain matter remembers it all and so it feels like he did it... anyway this is all very unclear to me and one thing that could motivate me to watch more episodes... to clear this up. Anyway Angel seems to be mostly a soul and so why does he need to go after redemption when he should technically already be on the light side... and this is why the black and white nature of these characters screws up their potential to be complex... It's kind of like that "wonderous" musical episode of Buffy where Spike keeps saying that she's "whispering in a dead man's ear" but that's not what he is... it's not like she's talking to the person who actually died as that person is gone (his soul flew off somewhere, you know)... she's talking to a demon whose only shared identity with that dead man is his brain matter... I mean to what extent does the demon assume the personality of whoever the person was before they were turned into a vampire... I could maybe see it as a sort of dual nature where somehow the exodus of the soul splits you and so you are both your soul and your body (divided, each with separate experience unaware of the other's experience but both still you) and this is why you may end up damned. Anyway I would need to think about this more as I don't like it being so simple in nature... (and I'm sure it isn't really covered too much in the shows as it's not the point).

[1981slater]

Buffy SEI
Giles LII
Xander ILE
Willow EII
Cordelia ESE
Angel SLE
Oz SLI
Spike EIE
Anya IEE
Riley LSE
Dawn IEI
Tara IEI
Joyce ESE
Faith SLE
etc etc

[marooned]

the one that looked odd to me on your list was

Buffy SEI

I think I have trouble seeing that one

ooh, I agree with Faith as SLE (I forgot about her)

I can see Angel as SLE working

[idealistichick]

Buffy:ESI
Spike: SLE
Angel:LII??
Cordelia:ESFj/ENFj
Xander: ILE
Willow: SEI

[Aleksei]

Buffy- SEE-Se
Angel- ESI-Se
Spike- SLE-Te
Willow- IEI-Ne

Overall I think the show is Gamma SF.

[ashlesha]

i've noticed a few other threads on this show but i felt like making a new one.
plus i'm only watching it now, so i'm really only interested in the characters i know through the second season.

the ones i want typed the most are: spike, drusilla, and cordelia.

the only people i've typed while watching are willow (sei) and oz (ile)


buffy-
xander-
willow-
rupert-
spike-
drusilla-
angel-
joyce-
oz-

[ashlesha]

okay. fine. just spike's type. whats spike's type??

[jet city woman]

SFP. Probably ISFj would be my guess.

It's hard to type television characters, because they aren't real people with all the facets of a real person.

[1981slater]

buffy-IEE?
xander-ILE
willow-SEI
rupert-LII
spike-EIE
drusilla-IEI?
angel-SLI
joyce-ESE
oz-SLI?
faith (hot brunette vampire slayer) SLE

[1981slater]

Nerd team: mostly gamma NTs
Tall, lesbian sorcerer: SEI?
Buffy's human boyfriend: LSE
Buffy's sister: IEI?

[jet city woman]

spike-EIE

You think spike is ENFj? Fuck, no. No way on earth. How is he emo in that sense?
Spike is way too independent to be EIE.

[717495]

She's introverted and stiff. Her feeling antics are none other than that of an ISTj. I can only explain why her character's an Fe cheerleader by the apparent calculating and doey sloth, a purposeful struggle to emotionally adjust to the objects and situations around her, not just responsively like normal, but to accompany and change them in an Fe way. No Fi in her whatsoever. Her feeling is too catch-all; too on-the-surface and object dependent. There's an Se intensity and hurriedness, but overall it's cheesy and a little gay. It has nothing to do with her bad acting.

I don't really know anything about this show or their characters, but I figure it must be somewhat Beta if it has Gellar, Boreanaz and Sarandon in it (edit: that chick kinda looks like Sarandon.)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

buffy- Possibly a gamma. She's constructively critical of other people the way gammas tend to be. She's very critical and snooty to other people which I consider a trait of gammas. Sorry gammas but you know it's true. =p Or maybe she's delta. She doesn't feel like my dual but she doesn't feel like somebody I'd totally clash with either so I'm not sure.

xander- oh god yes entp. He reminds me of my other entp friend so badly. He often has the stereotypical entp male assholeness when he's pissed off as well.

willow- isfp. I think Xander's dual. She and him have such a strong relationship over the years. Yes this puts willow & xander in conflicting quadras as Buffy but I think that was also one of the main points of the show... yeah she's very compassionate and kind but will also fuck you over discreetly if you do something to piss her off which i think is a huge isfp thing.

rupert- intj. He's nerdy and alpha-y like intjs are or something. Plus he's very ti-ego ish just the way he acts, as the main 'mind' of the scooby gang.

spike- an entj or istj or possibly a snarky bad boy infp. His whole shtick is to say sarcastic ass-y like comments. reminds me of a strrrrng/ashton hybrid kinda.

drusilla- An infp. Possibly spike and dru are just an infp identical pair. I'm not sure. But yeah her far out mental insanity and poetic nature is just... classic infp.

angel- I think he's some sort of EP. I think he might even be SLE. Possibly gamma SEE. well on his spin-off show his whole thing is about helping the helpless and infps are stereotypical helpless victim poets so it would make sense if you see it that way.

joyce- shit I don't know. works at the art gallery, is stereotypical mom-ish - perhaps she's some sort of isfj or esfj.

oz- intp?

[lemontrees]

It's a mostly delta show with a token "evil but hot" beta... Spike (EIE).

Buffy is LSE I think, I suspect Dawn is too.
Giles is EII.

[mu4]

I type Buffy ESI
Xander IEE
Willow SEI
Rupert LII
Spile IEI
Dru IEI
Angel SEE
Darla EIE
Cordelia ESE
Faith SLE
The Mayor IEI
Tara EII?
Warren ILE
Jonathon IEI
Andrew IEI

[717495]

Ugh she is not a serious type.

[mu4]

I think he's SLE. The other characters snark about how he has no brain, how when he has a thought then "that's new", and so on - not what one generally says of Ni egos. His "insights" are always about the state of things or distributions of power - not really Ni insights, and everyone's surprised when he has an insight at all. And I think he's far too impulsive/chaos-loving to be LSI.

I'm not sure IEI's are always known as insightful. IMO Spike was not really a alpha male, his pre-vampire interactions made him pretty weak and pathetic. Even as a vampire he was pretty much a follower, he's not particularly dumb but just not very assertive which made the other people in his vampire group disrespect him. IMO his ultra aggressive macho image was pretty much just him trying to keep up appearances.

He's also a big ole momma's boy. He's a really interesting character because his RL version is based on Billy Idol and such, but tbqh he was a man-bitch basically for Dru, and then Buffy.

His entire life/unlife was essentially devoted to the stronger, more assertive female figures in his life.

[mu4]

I agree that the pre-vamp characterisation is pretty weak and bleh, and 2-dimensional - I actually find it kind of difficult to believe that pre-vamp Spike would become post-vamp Spike.

It could explain why his poetry was bloody awful.. ^_^ I'm not so surprised about Post Vamp Spike because the Boston College bombing brothers are imo SLE and IEI. The younger brother being IEI, people can commit incredible acts of violence for many reasons. Vampirism is simply the convenient mechanism for this change in Buffy's world.

I think people tend to forget that SLEs aren't always the alpha males/females, and many don't want to be - I think that's the image that tends to come to mind because of how many SLEs are E8. On Wikisocion, for example, another "common social role" is:

I think Spike tries to act like a Alpha Male(but only act, he's always been a bit insecure) within his vampire group but is still subordinate to Drusilla, he never gains the respect of his vampire peers, his character makeover was more or less at Drusilla's behest. He essentially played a character, changing his accent/mannerisms for her. I type Drusilla IEI as well, maybe she just wanted Spike to be her dual. ^_^

I don't think Spike was ever very rebellious. Faith has more willpower and rebelliousness in her little finger.

His whole stubborn insistence on making Buffy fall in love with him with increasingly desperate measures is not entirely unlike an SLE's aggressor approach to romance. SLEs are kind of like loyal puppies hellbent on convincing you they're perfect for you - IEIs get all starry-eyed but we're fickle and give up easily

He's a guy so you gotta be a little aggressive but it's put on imo, and I think he was just as desperate when he was human, see the bloody awful poetry.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Supernatural shows like Buffy & Charmed (and Supernatural itself, natch) are good at pointing out the illusion of masculinity and gender roles. It was interesting that Buffy was really the one using Spike for sex, he loved her but she was just really into his hot body. She manned up, and admitted that she was just using him. And did not define herself as a victim in an abusive relationship, but as a mutual participator. This was a lot more realistic than Joss' idealizations of what women are like. (and a lot of people don't like Marti Noxon as a writer but I think the writers did an amazing job in season six of showing how depressing and disappointing 'real life' can be.)