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Thread: Sensitivity to symbolism- type-related?

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    Default Sensitivity to symbolism- type-related?

    This question popped into my mind while I was watching Prometheus with my ILE bf on Friday night and spending the duration of the movie trying not to groan at all of the heavy-handed symbolism pushed at the audience. Are certain types more likely to pick up on symbolism (imagery, allegory etc.) in movies, other media, and life events due to the functions they value, or is this yet another thing that isn't type related?

    I tend to pick up on symbolic imagery, allegory and underlying themes in different media without much effort, and am wondering if this is more related to Ni/Ti valuing or my education/life experiences. When we talked about what we thought about Prometheus, I found that my ILE bf hadn't picked up on the symbolism that seemed so lame and forced to me, though he recognized it when I explained it to him.

    Do you pick up on and understand symbolism well, or is it something you tend not to notice? Why?

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    I pick up on symbolism very easily. But i think it's because i look for it. Most of the time i see layers to things that people will argue are unintended.

    But yeah, I think it's totally Ni related.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    i pick up on symbolism and underlying themes a fair amount but i'm rarely confident that what i picked up on is what was universal or actually intended to be conveyed. it feels very personal.

    i don't know if i pick up on this stuff more or less than other people. i'd need an example other than prometheus, which i haven't seen. i remember watching the wall and feeling frustrated because i couldn't pick up on any threads.

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    yes, pretentious types.

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    I need to be walked through this stuff. Sometimes it's interesting (just watched a documentary from Joseph Campbell), but definitely not something I focus on.

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    now i'm curious what other people made of the wall. i got made fun of for not "getting it" but the same person who made fun of me refused to explain it and i bet they were just bs'ing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    now i'm curious what other people made of the wall. i got made fun of for not "getting it" but the same person who made fun of me refused to explain it and i bet they were just bs'ing.
    I think Pink Floyd sucks.

    Not sure that's an answer for you though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    now i'm curious what other people made of the wall. i got made fun of for not "getting it" but the same person who made fun of me refused to explain it and i bet they were just bs'ing.
    Don't know what your friend said about that film but you won't get most of it unless you have had followed that band's member history, so I take it your friend did that and was acting all "smart" or your friend was simply talking bollocks.

    Anyhow, awarding oneself the medal of being able to pick up on symbolism in The Wall and attributing it to Ni is absurd unless one refers to Ni as paranoid schizophrenia and carriers thereof paranoid schizophrenics, I'm fine with it, oh yes I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    now i'm curious what other people made of the wall. i got made fun of for not "getting it" but the same person who made fun of me refused to explain it and i bet they were just bs'ing.
    That movie affected me tremendously while I was a bit younger. The symbols were easy to get, although many of them seemed to be something more vague. Symbols and words aren't always that fluidly translated but symbol may leave a certain theme lingering in the air. The symbols might have felt too obvious because I had watched that movie so many times.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    This question popped into my mind while I was watching Prometheus with my ILE bf on Friday night and spending the duration of the movie trying not to groan at all of the heavy-handed symbolism pushed at the audience. Are certain types more likely to pick up on symbolism (imagery, allegory etc.) in movies, other media, and life events due to the functions they value, or is this yet another thing that isn't type related?
    Some people are more prone to assign meaning to their experiences than others, readily attributing symbolic relevance and imagining that there is much more to what can be seen with naked eye. For a few this ability is hyperactive making them to see meaningful patterns in practically anything (apophenia). It's related to the levels of dopamine in your brain, among some other things. I don't think this is related to Ni per se, because that would mean that alpha and delta types are 'symbolically-impaired', which ime is not the case.

    Do you pick up on and understand symbolism well, or is it something you tend not to notice? Why?
    depends on the day ... some days I'd rather not mentally overcomplicate things, while other days it's kinda like this -


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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    For a few this ability is hyperactive making them to see meaningful patterns in practically anything (apophenia). It's related to the levels of dopamine in your brain, among some other things.
    I guess it should be mentioned how much dopamine is a factor in LSD use and schizophrenia. Although how meaningful the symbols are is up for question (my own experiences were never productive). Too much of a good thing, I think.

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    Oh crap, Bob Dylan again. Hmm.

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    I actually see phallus symbols everywhere.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    now i'm curious what other people made of the wall. i got made fun of for not "getting it" but the same person who made fun of me refused to explain it and i bet they were just bs'ing.

    ok well do you understand what the wall itself stands for? Like what they mean when they say "all in all you're just another brick in the wall"
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    Do you pick up on and understand symbolism well, or is it something you tend not to notice? Why?
    I pick up on it all the time, and am usually the person pointing it out and explaining it to other people. It's part of my natural dissecting process. I even moved the whole way across the country, without a plan, on the back of synchronicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    ok well do you understand what the wall itself stands for? Like what they mean when they say "all in all you're just another brick in the wall"
    i think its like the wall is society and we're like worker ants and we all contribute to keeping the wall standing.

    the only part of the movie i even remember is when all the kids go into the meat grinder. the loss of individuality and humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i think its like the wall is society and we're like worker ants and we all contribute to keeping the wall standing.
    Yeah, everything else is kind of centered around that, and essentially what it's like to be a part of it and watch it happen.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i think its like the wall is society and we're like worker ants and we all contribute to keeping the wall standing.

    the only part of the movie i even remember is when all the kids go into the meat grinder. the loss of individuality and humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah, everything else is kind of centered around that, and essentially what it's like to be a part of it and watch it happen.
    Actually it is not.

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    Enlighten us, please...

    I haven't seen the movie, by the way. I am basing my analyses off of listening to the album hundreds of times. I know that the movie is the story of a boy named Pink, but nothing more.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I haven't seen the movie, by the way. I am basing my analyses off of listening to the album hundreds of times. I know that the movie is the story of a boy named Pink, but nothing more.
    That's the problem, you're talking about something having no knowledge of it beforehand. Heck, crucify me, but this Pink you're talking about went cuckoo after excess drug intake, especially LSD, developed what one calls schizophrenia and that was the peak of his career.

    And like I said before, correlating illness with an IE is just ridiculous, unless you want to call Ni people schizophrenic. I really would like to see someone actually make a lot of sense of it not being there or not knowing the facts. Pink is telling you his life history, starting from the breakup with his lady leading to his mental breakdown, which can be seen in that film. The wall, brick by brick is what he build around himself, he was completely disconnected with reality.

    His band mates got him to listen one of the songs they made just for him, a tribute to him, he was unable to grasp who or what is that song about. So ye, Ni people are able to do that as long they're Ni people or not schizophrenic.

    That was a bit of a joke on my part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    That's the problem, you're talking about something having no knowledge of it beforehand. Heck, crucify me, but this Pink you're talking about went cuckoo after excess drug intake, especially LSD, developed what one calls schizophrenia and that was the peak of his career.
    Well I'm sorry, but there is HEAVY symbolism in the album as well, which mostly revolves around the education system and social structure of Britain in the mid 20th century, as well as Roger Waters' own experience in performing for the people this society generated; I figured it was relevant. Sheesh.

    And like I said before, correlating illness with an IE is just ridiculous, unless you want to call Ni people schizophrenic. I really would like to see someone actually make a lot of sense of it not being there or not knowing the facts. Pink is telling you his life history, starting from the breakup with his lady leading to his mental breakdown, which can be seen in that film. The wall, brick by brick is what he build around himself, he was completely disconnected with reality.
    Interesting.

    I agree, connecting an IE to an illness is silly.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well I'm sorry, but there is HEAVY symbolism in the album as well, which mostly revolves around the education system and social structure of Britain in the mid 20th century, as well as Waters' own experience in performing for the people this society generated; I figured it was relevant. Sheesh.
    He is presenting it to you from his perspective, the teacher who was tyrannical towards him and so on. He is so afraid of him he actually becomes what he is afraid of in the end. That's the part his mental breakdown takes place.

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    Meh, Si types are so meticulous. I just feel music and listen to words...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Meh, Si types are so meticulous. I just feel music and listen to words...
    Si types or not, I want to know what I'm listening to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I don't think about 'symbolism' much. Like lungs said, it seems to me like something arbitrarily personal.
    Duh. Would like to know how is agreeing with someone without doing any work to check it not subjective at all. Besides, hidden connections or whatever it is called is not my forte as well but like I said to Gilly I want to know what I'm listening to, that is, I want to know what I'm reading even though I can read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Si types or not, I want to know what I'm listening to.
    Yeah, see for me, if understanding involves doing more than just hearing the music, the musician isn't doing his/her job. I can put myself in his shoes emotionally by listening, and recognize the themes and emotional states and how they interplay, but I could never know all of that without doing research.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah, see for me, if understanding involves doing more than just hearing the music, the musician isn't doing his/her job. I can put myself in his shoes emotionally by listening, and recognize the themes and emotional states and how they interplay, but I could never know all of that without doing research.
    Bare in mind some people do not want you to get it, that is, do not want the mainstream to get it and are content with a handful of people who actually, surprise, get it. To some recognition of few means a lot more than the recognition of the masses even though masses support some band. Useful idiots one might say.

    It's like posting on this forum or any kind of forum and people reading you reporting not knowing what they read.

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    But it's not about "getting it," it's not a message hidden in the mood of the song or the gestalt of the lyrics like, say, Amanda Palmer does. You have to read about them and see their movie and all this other shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I actually see phallus symbols everywhere.

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    I ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR SIGNATURE BUT DESPISE SUCH A TIMELESS CLASSIC OF A SHOW BEING BASTARDIZED FOR SOCIONICS HUMOR.

    FOR SHAME PS FOR SHAME
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR SIGNATURE BUT DESPISE SUCH A TIMELESS CLASSIC OF A SHOW BEING BASTARDIZED FOR SOCIONICS HUMOR.

    FOR SHAME PS FOR SHAME
    The devil made me do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You have to read about them and see their movie and all this other shit.
    That's what I wrote starting my number one post in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    vid
    Thanks for bumping this for me, I wouldn't see nor come back to Gilly's post if it wasn't for you. And oh, that vid is shitty, looks like a Holocaust survivor dancing.

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    PistolShrimp, I actively listen to Die Antwoord.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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