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Thread: How does Role Ni manifest in ISFps

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    Default How does Role Ni manifest in ISFps

    Inspired by the IEI equivalent. Discuss. I don't know if I have anything to say about this for now. I'll come back later if something comes to my mind.
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Perpetual Confusion Machine PistolShrimp's Avatar
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    My mom is SEI, and here are some things I see her do that could possibly be Ni-role:

    -Buys a lot of food that looks good at the time on a whim, then doesn't eat it all before it goes bad or clogs the freezer with things she never ends up eating at all (weak Ni?). Gets uptight when I point this pattern out.
    -Very interested in esoteric healing arts such as Reiki, meditation, etc., but with a focus on restoring the body to balance
    -Attempts to find meaning in her life through various self-help books
    -Believes in things like synchronicity, retrograde mercury, mediums and psychics, tendency for magical thinking
    -Very rarely talks about the future, aside from plans for family gatherings and vacations
    -Keeps a detailed Day Planner book in order to get anything done on time

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    Taking it personal when i point my finger and accuse them of not understanding the joke.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    My mom is SEI, and here are some things I see her do that could possibly be Ni-role:

    -Buys a lot of food that looks good at the time on a whim, then doesn't eat it all before it goes bad or clogs the freezer with things she never ends up eating at all (weak Ni?). Gets uptight when I point this pattern out.
    -Very interested in esoteric healing arts such as Reiki, meditation, etc., but with a focus on restoring the body to balance
    -Attempts to find meaning in her life through various self-help books
    -Believes in things like synchronicity, retrograde mercury, mediums and psychics, tendency for magical thinking
    -Very rarely talks about the future, aside from plans for family gatherings and vacations
    -Keeps a detailed Day Planner book in order to get anything done on time
    I don't know what function this represents, but it is creepily like my boyfriend, who is also SEI.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Er. My ESE mom is good at buying things and knowing when she'll eat them and not having food go bad. Just saying.

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    Dealing with food and cooking and time food takes to spoil and when she plans to eat something is really in the practical realm of things my Mom's pretty good at. She knows through experience how long it takes things to spoil and how much stuff she buys usually costs. She can't afford for things she buys to spoil because her finances are tight. And she's very much a "doer" so there isn't a big problem with lack of motivation to follow a plan she makes. She does rely a lot on messy scheduling and I think that's stressful for her (working out schedules) and she seems to have several calendars and plan books and scribbles all over all of them at once but I personally attribute this to the strain on logic. It's the same thing with anything she has to take notes on or keep track of (total disorder and things scrawled everywhere). It takes more concentration for her to plan schedules (I think this often involves using her Te role). Anyway I don't think planning about your groceries is necessarily related to Ni. I mean hell, looking at the IEI and Si role thread it could have to do with Si role. You didn't remember when you bought certain things that they actually make you feel sick when you eat them, or you know you should eat them and this time maybe you'll get yourself to, and then you may dread eating certain things you buy and they then all spoil. Also I think it's in one of the IEI descriptions that they may not be great with finances and have trouble resisting their momentary desires (= impulse buying).

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    ESE husband has always bought WAY too much food. Even when I've pointed this out to him, he continued. Like he can't help himself. lol

    I believe in synchronicity and magikal things.

    Also, I don't think talking about the future is type related. I can know things, or see the way things will end up, or *probably* will end up, but I rarely talk about it. Except on occasion, to reassure people. But even with this knowing sense, nobody really KNOWS for sure. And then of course it doesn't help when nobody in your family takes you seriously. And then things happen and you don't want to say I told you so, but there it is.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    ESE husband has always bought WAY too much food. Even when I've pointed this out to him, he continued. Like he can't help himself. lol

    I believe in synchronicity and magikal things.

    Also, I don't think talking about the future is type related. I can know things, or see the way things will end up, or *probably* will end up, but I rarely talk about it. Except on occasion, to reassure people. But even with this knowing sense, nobody really KNOWS for sure. And then of course it doesn't help when nobody in your family takes you seriously. And then things happen and you don't want to say I told you so, but there it is.
    I think this is more subtype related.

    ESE-Si vs ESE-Fe

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=ESE_subtypes


    Also EJ's/Choleric temperament are described as highly organized or highly disorganized. Will be variation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_temperaments

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    My ESE mother does this too, it's because she's Asian and likes bargains, so she'll buy a lot of food when it's on sale, but forgets that if 40% of it goes off before we can eat it, it's no longer a bargain. So in her case I think it's a problem when weighing up overall benefit, which happens in other cases too, and I think it's to do with Ni-PoLR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    I've told about my ESE mother-in-law buying completely the wrong amount of food and not being able to feed everyone, right? And I know an ESE in charge of planning events for a group I'm in, and she always buys like two or three times as much food as we need. I do think it's a trend, though as with all trends it is not a 100% thing.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    ESE husband has always bought WAY too much food. Even when I've pointed this out to him, he continued. Like he can't help himself. lol

    I believe in synchronicity and magikal things.

    Also, I don't think talking about the future is type related. I can know things, or see the way things will end up, or *probably* will end up, but I rarely talk about it. Except on occasion, to reassure people. But even with this knowing sense, nobody really KNOWS for sure. And then of course it doesn't help when nobody in your family takes you seriously. And then things happen and you don't want to say I told you so, but there it is.
    Do you think maybe it was his way of making sure you were being taken care of?

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    For me, role usually manifests as "Should have saw that coming..." moments.
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    Quote Originally Posted by aivonua nainini View Post
    Inspired by the IEI equivalent. Discuss. I don't know if I have anything to say about this for now. I'll come back later if something comes to my mind.
    SEI are Judicious type; they aren't as good with Ni as IEI.

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    Yeah, but the thing is if this were related to Ni PoLR so strongly we'd expect to find a similar thing going on with LSEs. I'm personally starting to think this has a lot more to do with logic than it does with intuition. It's a logic problem: I need X # of meals for X amount of time and have $X and given that each ingredient has a different time to spoil and so on. This is an easy problem for my LSE uncle for instance. The only way something like that would be a problem for him would be if his mind/memory started going. My ESE mom can address the problem as well, but it's not without strain.

    Not to mention, if human beings on average could not address these sorts of problems, I really think this just doesn't match up with the sort of basic tasks a human being should be capable of. Although one point is the matter of necessity. If you have the money to buy shitloads of food all the time then indulgence becomes a factor and one can I suppose get carried away with themselves.

    Anyway I think that someone who struggles with this problem, it's more than Ni PoLR or weak logic or whatever we want to attribute it to going on. I'd say their mind may not be working very well. A healthy human not under too much stress of average intelligence should be able to effectively do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Do you think maybe it was his way of making sure you were being taken care of?
    I think it's compulsion more than anything. "I saw this on sale and I bought 10!" sort of thing. I do that too but only if I know we can eat it before it goes bad. I mean, common sense!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Yeah, but the thing is if this were related to Ni PoLR so strongly we'd expect to find a similar thing going on with LSEs. I'm personally starting to think this has a lot more to do with logic than it does with intuition. It's a logic problem: I need X # of meals for X amount of time and have $X and given that each ingredient has a different time to spoil and so on. This is an easy problem for my LSE uncle for instance. The only way something like that would be a problem for him would be if his mind/memory started going. My ESE mom can address the problem as well, but it's not without strain.

    Not to mention, if human beings on average could not address these sorts of problems, I really think this just doesn't match up with the sort of basic tasks a human being should be capable of. Although one point is the matter of necessity. If you have the money to buy shitloads of food all the time then indulgence becomes a factor and one can I suppose get carried away with themselves.

    Anyway I think that someone who struggles with this problem, it's more than Ni PoLR or weak logic or whatever we want to attribute it to going on. I'd say their mind may not be working very well. A healthy human not under too much stress of average intelligence should be able to effectively do this.
    I see what you're saying. And I want to agree, in theory. But even the most intelligent people (MY GOSH, my husband is super smart, he has three advanced degrees but it's a particular kind of smart, and it doesn't always seem smart to me in the real world) behave this way. He gets perfect scores on advanced logic tests. I just don't think there's a direct correlation. If the logic is there, it's being overridden by something else. Some other need or compulsion.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    maybe it's Ti vs. Te? My SLI dad didn't have this issue either. I come from a long line of people who apparently don't have this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think it's compulsion more than anything. "I saw this on sale and I bought 10!" sort of thing. I do that too but only if I know we can eat it before it goes bad. I mean, common sense!
    It's about passion. This goes for all types and individuals, only some of the time can we overcome passion with reason. Some do better than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    It's about passion. This goes for all types and individuals, only some of the time can we overcome passion with reason. Some do better than others.
    yeah sorry, I can't muster up any passion for grocery shopping. Now motorcycles.... yes. Literature and films.... yes. THE MEANING OF LIFE....YES. But not corn on the cob. Hey, don't get me wrong. I like to eat it, but, it's just food.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    It took me some years to identify Ni role in myself, but I think I got it now. I often have a feeling of time, hurriedness or calmness, it's not as neurotic as in Ni polrs, but it is definitely something that requires an effort / moderate stress to be aware of, and I am aware of time, all the time. I often feel that I am in a slight hurry, or that I am keeping my finger on the pulse of time.

    I can also distance myself from the flow of events, seeing or feeling how they unfold, being passive and waiting for the right moment to act.

    Ni in intellectual matters I think I use alot, because Ni is basically the only form of intuition that I can use, because I suck at Ne.

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    Hmm, well this passion thing might make sense. My ESE mom likes to feel really enthused about upcoming meals and excited about them (not only the food, but the setting and who will be with her). She also likes others to feel equally enthused about it and may feel rather depressed, uncertain and indecisive otherwise, not sure what to get for dinner or um something. She can't afford to buy a lot of food (she buys in bulk but she is sparing in that she's careful about stretching her money as far as it can go and letting food spoil would just be out of the question because her budget doesn't account for that), but she sometimes will "splurge." So I can see with a general idea of ESE a scenario where money is more plentiful and getting into a sort of free-flying passion about getting all sorts of exciting things to eat envisioning happy times with friends and family over food (or showering others with lots of good food or choices of food sometimes as being a good host or parent or other relation). In this sense this would be largely about Fe and secondarily Si being untempered by anything else (allowed to go on its merry way, consequences be damned).

    I guess my main issue with this is attributing an apparent inability to solve the grocery/food spoiling problem to "poor Ni" as though ESE has no Ni and therefore cannot intelligently buy groceries. I think that this kind of thing is false and non-applicable. Ni =/= ability to plan ahead on groceries, imo. Maybe no one was saying that to begin with.
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-14-2012 at 09:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    I don't know what function this represents, but it is creepily like my boyfriend, who is also SEI.
    Is your SEI boyfriend type 9?

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    like this
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    Is your SEI boyfriend type 9?
    Enneagram 4.

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    My SEI friend keeps a day planner where she can get things done and not forget because she can get diateacted by things that capture her pleasure senses. She is a bit tense about getting thinga done but not as stressed and not feling as though she never has time like LSE. She's a great mom. She probably isn't that great at foretelling an event or seeing the sequence of them.

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    The role function essentially is seen as more of a demand to comply to than a motivation either by the most discerning or more pleasure-principle-oriented side of the psyche. With the SEI, and with Si-leads in general, the tendency can be to get too tied to the sense stimulus, repressing the intuitive tendency. There's of course an advantage and a disadvantage here, and the disadvantage is that Ni tends to be seen as a demand to look past the influence of the stimulus. It requires one to pay attention to spontaneously inner-generated mental imagery which informs as to meanings and contents which the Si sort is less immediately concerned with by habit.

    At the simplest level, really this is the person who does observe the passing of time with vividness and attunedness, but through the stimulus, rather than imaginatively or through the ideational, so it can lead to either getting stuck in a routine and being quite unable to get out of it or lacking a unifying idea or any such intangible governing the progression of their life activities. And I'll bet this "simplest level" actually is often the actual reality of the real life instances of this type.

    When ethics of emotions agrees with sensation, then naturally logical concerns get tied up with intuition in uncovering the uncomfortable aspects of life, so the aforementioned view of Ni gets very much tied together with logical concerns - this could be experienced in a variety of ways, including tying their many difficulties with extraverted logic to their tied-ness to the Si, rather than Ni, perspective on things, but feeling quite helpless to get out of it because the Si perspective is so clearly their reality.

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