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Thread: Fi differences between ESFp and ENFp

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    Default Fi differences between ESFp and ENFp

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Ann what is the difference in the way you view emtions from the way ESFPs view emotions?
    Interesting question, and one of the one's I've gotta find an answer to within the next few days if I can. However, that topic is not appropriate for this particular thread. I will PM you when I've got a tentative idea.
    Dio asked about the differences between the Fi of an ENFp and the Fi of an ESFp. I told him I would work on a tentative response. Here is what I have thus far:

    ENFp Fi: The enfp gains information about an object's internal qualities by relating themselves to those internal qualities.
    ESFp Fi: An esfp gains information about an object's external qualities by relating themselves to those external qualities.

    Hypothetical Examples:
    ENFp: What would it be like internally to be crippled? What goes on in the mind, emotionally and mentally? How would it feel to see people's attraction/repulsions to the sight of me? How would it feel to want to be autonomous but having to need and rely on someone's aide?
    ESFp: What would it be like externally to be crippled? What goes on in the body…what would it look like? What position would my limbs be in? what parts would retain strength/power and which parts would lose it? How would this affect my physical energy?

    Real World Examples:
    Example 1: At the pool my daughter and I go to, there are a number of physically and mentally "handicapped" people. There are a couple of them who have very obvious physical contortions. My daughter, upon seeing these particular people, would almost immediately contort herself into the position they were in, and attempt to walk and talk as they do. She and I would have arguments as I tell her to stop. (I'm thinking "what would it be like to have these problems and see someone mimicking me?"). I would tell her that they might think that she is making fun of them. She'd counter with, "but I'm NOT making fun of them." I'd counter with, "how would it feel if you were in that position and people were copying you?" Her response, "I'm NOT making fun of them!"

    (note: lately, she has a slightly easier time of viewing that these people might be hurt by her copying them…stress the slightly easier. I think that it's more because, it's a huge step to go from trying to get info about the external qualities to getting info about the internal qualities. And vice versa.)

    Example 2: Manta regularly comes in crying because one of the kids she plays with doesn't want to play the game Manta wants to play. I'm finally learning (after 10 years) that it's almost a waste of my time to get her to see things from the other kid's pov, and that just cuz the kid doesn't want to play THAT game, doesn't mean that the kid doesn't want to play with Manta. Why? Because I think Manta is viewing the game as "What would it be like to be playing that game? What movements would I be making? Which movements would my friend be making? Etc." She has, in essence, identified a part of herself with the game that is being rejected, hence, she herself is being rejected.

    Example 3: I have complained before about my daughter getting upset when I call her coat or sweater a "jacket". It drives me bonkers because she takes it as if I insulted her person somehow. She is getting a little better about this. She still corrects me "it's a coat mom". And once in a while she'll say it in an exasperated slightly hurt tone. I'm not sure exactly what part of a coat or a sweater she has identified with. This concept is …foreign …to me. However, I think it has to do with her sense of identity with her world view….just as I have my identity with my world view. We just have very different world views!


    Example 4: One of the common arguments which I have with ESFps is when they get upset at someone for doing something, and respond with, "Well, I wouldn't have done that, I'd have done this." "If he really loved me, he'd have talked to me about it". (Never mind the fact that this ESFp has clearly shown in a number of previous interactions that she would dismiss his internal emotions/thoughts, hence keeping him from talking to her about it.)
    ---

    Basically, the major differences are that the ENFp is using their Fi to gain more information for their Ne perceptions. And the ESFp is using their Fi to gain more information for their Se perceptions. For them to come to an understanding of each other, one of them has to suppress aspects of their base function and put some effort into their role function. For example, an ENFp would have to stop seeing the internal qualities of an object and turn their attentions to the external qualities of said object. The more in tune the ENFp is to attending to internal qualities, the less in tune they are with attending to external qualities. The ESFp would have to do similar…suppress their seeing of external qualities so they can attend to internal qualities. And, as socionics points out, the more a person must suppress an ego function, the more self esteem that person loses.

    Which reminds me of one of my previous threads: ENFp vs ESFp…winner? Nobody.

    Now, I am pretty sure I'll get some flack about how ENFps and ESFps can get along great and be best friends and all that jazz. I'd like to point out, though, that
    1. at least one of them is having to suppress aspects of their natural self in order to fully work together
    2. the longer the ENFp and ESFp are together, the more self-esteem gets lost by at least one of them
    3. consider, if you will, the effects of an ESFp parent with an ENFp child, as well as the effects of an ENFp parent with an ESFp child; there is very little time off from extended times of suppression with which to spend with people who allow you to be yourself. The strain is quite dominant in the singleparent/child enfp/esfp relationship.
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    I personally think that most of the differences you identified can be summed up by the difference in the infantile and aggressive attitudes.

    By the way, the jacket thing sounds rather extreme to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I personally think that most of the differences you identified can be summed up by the difference in the infantile and aggressive attitudes.

    By the way, the jacket thing sounds rather extreme to me.
    I am trying to figure out which parts show "infantile attitude" and which parts show "aggressive attitude" that do not take into consideration the two specific types being discussed. Thus far, I am not succeeding. Yes, it does come down to Ne (infantile) vs Se (aggressive)...but it is still covering the NeFi and the SeFi. Not all Se use Fi, and not all Ne use Fi. So which parts of the examples are not taking into consideration the Fi?

    Regarding the jacket thing..yes, it seems rather extreme to me as well. I have often said on the forums and in chat, that my daughter seems to be as extreme Se as I am Ne.
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    do you have an argument that doesn't center around your ten year old daughter?

    i mean this seems like comparing apples to oranges, in a way. and if you think the piaget stages of development hold any weight at all, (or anything in developmental psych, i suppose,) not all of this seems like it can be attributed to her being ESFp.


    i'd probably take FDG's approach on this, too. infantile vs aggressor. although example 2, i guess, would fall under aggressor behavior.

    re: ex. 1 - she sounds like she's a professional method actress, already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    do you have an argument that doesn't center around your ten year old daughter?

    i mean this seems like comparing apples to oranges, in a way. and if you think the piaget stages of development hold any weight at all, (or anything in developmental psych, i suppose,) not all of this seems like it can be attributed to her being ESFp.


    i'd probably take FDG's approach on this, too. infantile vs aggressor. although example 2, i guess, would fall under aggressor behavior.

    re: ex. 1 - she sounds like she's a professional method actress, already.
    Example 4 actually is the most common. And perhaps the number one reason why I have difficulties with ESFps. The examples regarding my daughter were given to help show that there is obviously a reason for what ESFps do, and that it's not much different from my own methods...except for the focus.

    infantile vs aggressor. again...what is it about the examples given that show strictly Ne vs Se and does NOT include Fi in them? infantile is the Ne, aggressor is the Se...both use Fi for different purposes.

    Much like if one were to compare an ESTp and an ENTp. They each utilize Ti in differing ways or for differing purposes. By comparing them, would you and FDG say that it comes down to the infantile vs aggressor as well, disregarding the Ti?

    I'm pretty sure that what i've described as the ESFps Fi are not the same as the ESTp's Ti, yet they are both aggressors. Are you saying that the ESTp also gains more information about an object's traits, form, shape, appearance, position, strength, power, physical energy by relating the object to the ESTp's personal attraction/repulsion, likes/dislikes?

    I had always thought that ESTps relate the external qualities of the object with Ti concepts, such as object's position in space, comparisons of quantifiable properties such as distance, weight, volume, worth, strength, quality, etc, or a system of rules, proportions, balance/imbalance, and advantages of one object over another object. Are you saying that ESTps take things as personally as the ESFp? that ESTps identify themselves with objects in their environment like the ESFp does? That this is an aggressor trait and has nothing to do with Fi?

    One of you, please explain.
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    I wonder if it's a good idea to use Socionics to explain child-adult relations. There seems to be a great deal of frustration on your part, from what I read, that I don't think boils down to type differences. I really don't think this is the way to resolve tension.
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    ESFp
    The ethics of relations excellently examines the system of the relations, which are added between the people. Knows how to say to man the fact that they want to hear from it. However, it does not hurry to carry out its promises, if he does not feel in this of special need. It balances between the interests of opposite camps, successfully conducting negotiations or dealing. If that its own interests require, easily it reconciles itself with the former enemies. He knows, as to fix relations. It is faster, it plays on the negative relations, the antipathies how positive connections very to break the been bored with relations difficultly. He tries to give to man to indirectly understand that it to it is not interesting. It does not love to allow to approach people to itself closely, since he feels, that this assigns on it the specific obligations. It easily starts acquaintances and more confident itself it feels in the large company, than in private and in the everyday situation.

    ENFp
    As no one by another examines the logic of human relations, especially to it are intelligible the reasons for complications and discords in the love and the friendship. To it to more easily preserve the fixed relations how to restore those tearing. Sensitively it reacts on the antipathy. Obayatelen is sociable. It will know how to erect relation system with any person, provided it was to it interesting. He understands, with whom on what distance it is necessary to associate, although it is not always maintained. He knows that it is necessary to make in order to support the favorable psychological atmosphere in the association. It advises, as to associate with the man in order to become it necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    I wonder if it's a good idea to use Socionics to explain child-adult relations. There seems to be a great deal of frustration on your part, from what I read, that I don't think boils down to type differences. I really don't think this is the way to resolve tension.
    This particular thread is NOT about my daughter, it is about the differences between ESFp's Fi and ENFp's Fi. What insights about Fi differences between ESFps and ENFps do YOU offer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    I wonder if it's a good idea to use Socionics to explain child-adult relations. There seems to be a great deal of frustration on your part, from what I read, that I don't think boils down to type differences. I really don't think this is the way to resolve tension.
    This particular thread is NOT about my daughter, it is about the differences between ESFp's Fi and ENFp's Fi. What insights about Fi differences between ESFps and ENFps do YOU offer?
    Three out of four examples were about your daughter and I don't think your relationship with her is indicative of ENFp-ESFp relations because
    a) she is 10 years old and
    b) you are closely related to her.

    I will certainly have more to offer when time allows.
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    ESFp will whine about actual stuff.

    ENFp will whine about made-up stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe


    ESFp will whine about actual stuff.

    ENFp will whine about made-up stuff.
    Examples, please?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe


    ESFp will whine about actual stuff.

    ENFp will whine about made-up stuff.
    Examples, please?
    ESFp will whine about someone being mean to their friend because it's obviously bad.

    ENFp will whine about someone being mean to their friend because of esoteric bullshit they read in the organon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    This particular thread is NOT about my daughter, it is about the differences between ESFp's Fi and ENFp's Fi. What insights about Fi differences between ESFps and ENFps do YOU offer?
    Three out of four examples were about your daughter and I don't think your relationship with her is indicative of ENFp-ESFp relations because
    a) she is 10 years old and
    b) you are closely related to her.

    I will certainly have more to offer when time allows.
    3 out of 4 examples included my daughter because she happens to be the ESFp who is currently in my environment on such a consistent enough basis that I'm lucky enough to not only get to observe beyond her public mask, but I also get to see all the little things she does that leads to her own personal form of insight.

    I certainly hope you are able to find time you'd rather spend describing your own insights regarding ESFp and ENFp Fi differences. I love descriptive insights!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe


    ESFp will whine about actual stuff.

    ENFp will whine about made-up stuff.
    Examples, please?
    I didn't think so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe


    ESFp will whine about actual stuff.

    ENFp will whine about made-up stuff.
    Examples, please?
    I didn't think so.
    There's a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    ESFp will whine about someone being mean to their friend because it's obviously bad.

    ENFp will whine about someone being mean to their friend because of esoteric bullshit they read in the organon.
    hmm, I dunno about the esoteric bs part, examples?

    I do know that each of the ESFps I've known, (even the psycho bitches and the father from hell) were very protective of their friends. I'm not sure about the father from hell, but the others, including my daughter, took insults to their friends as personal insults to themselves. When an ESFp comes crying to my shoulder (I'm including the adults as well) because a friend of theirs was hurt by someone else, I could never fathom how they themselves could feel that much hurt.

    So far, though, this aligns with what I wrote above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Example 4 actually is the most common.

    ((deleted for brevity))

    Are you saying that ESTps take things as personally as the ESFp? that ESTps identify themselves with objects in their environment like the ESFp does? That this is an aggressor trait and has nothing to do with Fi?

    One of you, please explain.
    i'm not debating that, really.

    i just would have (like kim suggests) used a similarly aged ESFp peer as an example. i doubt i'd use a developing ESFp ten-year-old as an example.

    i'd even go as far to say that i think (and this is just my opinion) that a lot of children of that age can seem dominant due to their concreteness, the urgency of their actions, whatever stage of development they're in, even if they're not. a screaming baby will always seem dominant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Example 4 actually is the most common.

    ((deleted for brevity))

    Are you saying that ESTps take things as personally as the ESFp? that ESTps identify themselves with objects in their environment like the ESFp does? That this is an aggressor trait and has nothing to do with Fi?

    One of you, please explain.
    i'm not debating that, really.

    i just would have (like kim suggests) used a similarly aged ESFp peer as an example. i doubt i'd use a developing ESFp ten-year-old as an example.

    i'd even go as far to say that i think (and this is just my opinion) that a lot of children of that age can seem dominant due to their concreteness, the urgency of their actions, whatever stage of development they're in, even if they're not. a screaming baby will always seem dominant.
    Hmmm, a number of people without kids of their own have said similar things. As a mother who gets to see her kid not only at the child's worse, but also at the child's near best (the best is generally reserved for the parents of her friends).....I also get to see her friends and the interactions amongst them. There are definite differences between each of them, as well as the interactions each has with another. Yes, in time some of them will learn "social rules" or "avoidance", however, there is nothing as great as watching someone's body follow along with what's going on in their minds...and for that...one finds it clearer in children.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Example 4 actually is the most common.

    ((deleted for brevity))

    Are you saying that ESTps take things as personally as the ESFp? that ESTps identify themselves with objects in their environment like the ESFp does? That this is an aggressor trait and has nothing to do with Fi?

    One of you, please explain.
    i'm not debating that, really.

    i just would have (like kim suggests) used a similarly aged ESFp peer as an example. i doubt i'd use a developing ESFp ten-year-old as an example.

    i'd even go as far to say that i think (and this is just my opinion) that a lot of children of that age can seem dominant due to their concreteness, the urgency of their actions, whatever stage of development they're in, even if they're not. a screaming baby will always seem dominant.
    Hmmm, a number of people without kids of their own have said similar things. As a mother who gets to see her kid not only at the child's worse, but also at the child's near best (the best is generally reserved for the parents of her friends).....I also get to see her friends and the interactions amongst them. There are definite differences between each of them, as well as the interactions each has with another. Yes, in time some of them will learn "social rules" or "avoidance", however, there is nothing as great as watching someone's body follow along with what's going on in their minds...and for that...one finds it clearer in children.
    I like Ann's coments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I like Ann's coments.

    Ann tell me about tha father from hell?
    Hell no!
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I like Ann's coments.

    Ann tell me about tha father from hell?
    Hell no!
    Was it your own father if I may ask?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anndelise
    Now, I am pretty sure I'll get some flack about how ENFps and ESFps can get along great and be best friends and all that jazz. I'd like to point out, though, that
    1. at least one of them is having to suppress aspects of their natural self in order to fully work together
    2. the longer the ENFp and ESFp are together, the more self-esteem gets lost by at least one of them
    3. consider, if you will, the effects of an ESFp parent with an ENFp child, as well as the effects of an ENFp parent with an ESFp child; there is very little time off from extended times of suppression with which to spend with people who allow you to be yourself. The strain is quite dominant in the singleparent/child enfp/esfp relationship.
    Anndelise is accurate in demonstrating the differences and relationship of ENFps and ESFps. My best friend is an ESFp and even though I like him very much, the list is pretty much dead on describing the detrimental effects. Our relationship works a lot more positively if it is in short intervals rather than long extended periods of time. In this case, I'm the one whose self-esteem suffers and I have to diffuse my character. At times I feel as almost everything I am doing is wrong when in reality there is no right or wrong when it comes to behaviour, which I tried to argue with him to no avail.

    In fact, I have to change myself a lot more with my ESFp friend than with my ESTp friend and this applies to self-esteem as well. I believe look-alike relations are described as being more positive than they really are. However, if the relationship is in short intervals than the negative effects don't have enough time to sink in and it becomes highly positive and we get along well. In that situation, he seems to praise my strengths and likes my sense of enthusiasm.

    I'd have to conclude that time is an essential factor in determining whether relations would turn sour or bloom. Of course, in terms of long-term relationships, individuals in your own quadra tend to be positive in that time period, while the other personalities in quadras are more short lived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Quote Originally Posted by Anndelise
    Now, I am pretty sure I'll get some flack about how ENFps and ESFps can get along great and be best friends and all that jazz. I'd like to point out, though, that
    1. at least one of them is having to suppress aspects of their natural self in order to fully work together
    2. the longer the ENFp and ESFp are together, the more self-esteem gets lost by at least one of them
    3. consider, if you will, the effects of an ESFp parent with an ENFp child, as well as the effects of an ENFp parent with an ESFp child; there is very little time off from extended times of suppression with which to spend with people who allow you to be yourself. The strain is quite dominant in the singleparent/child enfp/esfp relationship.
    Anndelise is accurate in demonstrating the differences and relationship of ENFps and ESFps. My best friend is an ESFp and even though I like him very much, the list is pretty much dead on describing the detrimental effects. Our relationship works a lot more positively if it is in short intervals rather than long extended periods of time. In this case, I'm the one whose self-esteem suffers and I have to diffuse my character. At times I feel as almost everything I am doing is wrong when in reality there is no right or wrong when it comes to behaviour, which I tried to argue with him to no avail.

    In fact, I have to change myself a lot more with my ESFp friend than with my ESTp friend and this applies to self-esteem as well. I believe look-alike relations are described as being more positive than they really are. However, if the relationship is in short intervals than the negative effects don't have enough time to sink in and it becomes highly positive and we get along well. In that situation, he seems to praise my strengths and likes my sense of enthusiasm.

    I'd have to conclude that time is an essential factor in determining whether relations would turn sour or bloom. Of course, in terms of long-term relationships, individuals in your own quadra tend to be positive in that time period, while the other personalities in quadras are more short lived.
    Do you have any other observations to adda bout the way ESFPs function?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Quote Originally Posted by Anndelise
    Now, I am pretty sure I'll get some flack about how ENFps and ESFps can get along great and be best friends and all that jazz. I'd like to point out, though, that
    1. at least one of them is having to suppress aspects of their natural self in order to fully work together
    2. the longer the ENFp and ESFp are together, the more self-esteem gets lost by at least one of them
    3. consider, if you will, the effects of an ESFp parent with an ENFp child, as well as the effects of an ENFp parent with an ESFp child; there is very little time off from extended times of suppression with which to spend with people who allow you to be yourself. The strain is quite dominant in the singleparent/child enfp/esfp relationship.
    Anndelise is accurate in demonstrating the differences and relationship of ENFps and ESFps. My best friend is an ESFp and even though I like him very much, the list is pretty much dead on describing the detrimental effects. Our relationship works a lot more positively if it is in short intervals rather than long extended periods of time. In this case, I'm the one whose self-esteem suffers and I have to diffuse my character. At times I feel as almost everything I am doing is wrong when in reality there is no right or wrong when it comes to behaviour, which I tried to argue with him to no avail.

    In fact, I have to change myself a lot more with my ESFp friend than with my ESTp friend and this applies to self-esteem as well. I believe look-alike relations are described as being more positive than they really are. However, if the relationship is in short intervals than the negative effects don't have enough time to sink in and it becomes highly positive and we get along well. In that situation, he seems to praise my strengths and likes my sense of enthusiasm.

    I'd have to conclude that time is an essential factor in determining whether relations would turn sour or bloom. Of course, in terms of long-term relationships, individuals in your own quadra tend to be positive in that time period, while the other personalities in quadras are more short lived.
    Do you have any other observations to adda bout the way ESFPs function?
    Well, the only person I am confident is an ESFp is my best friend so it may be a little biased, but I'll give it an attempt.

    Negatives

    They have this belief that there is a proper manner to behave and they try to enforce it with those that don't because they feel everyone adheres to those standards as well. When it comes to going out, they feel that they must be with a high amount of people in order to have fun. If there is only one or two people then it is a waste of time and boring regardless of what occurs. If they believe you are going to state something ridiculous, they will attempt to silence you immediately. They seem to narrow down selections and possibilities for activities to a very short list.

    Positives

    They will help you if they see that your in a position that is uncomfortable. They are overly generous and will even offer you it when you don't even request it. They will go along with an idea that seems practical and will be enthusiastic about it. If you accomplished something great, they will praise you for it highly. They will sacrifice doing something they'd like to do if you want to perform a different task.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Hmmm, a number of people without kids of their own have said similar things. As a mother who gets to see her kid not only at the child's worse, but also at the child's near best (the best is generally reserved for the parents of her friends).....I also get to see her friends and the interactions amongst them. There are definite differences between each of them, as well as the interactions each has with another.
    I have lately been spending some time with 0-5 year old children and even as young as age of 2 you can see some type traits. At age of 4 some children have clear types at least it seems so. Of course I can't prove it but this is socionics so no one can prove anything really But the point here is that yes there seems to be clear differences between children which imo can be explained with types. And yes children can be used as examples in this kind of threads if you know what you are doing. Actually in some adults type traits may be better hidden than in many children. Of course often times it is better to use adults older than about 25 years of age as examples.

    On the surface the ENFp/ESFp differences described seem like an interpretation with potential. It would be nice to see what the definitions would end-up looking like if you bring in ESTp and ENTp too and try to compare SeTi vs SeFi vs NeFi vs NeTi side by side.

    This is a late night post with not too much content but I just wanted to provide some kind of comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Negatives
    They have this belief that there is a proper manner to behave and they try to enforce it with those that don't because they feel everyone adheres to those standards as well. When it comes to going out, they feel that they must be with a high amount of people in order to have fun. If there is only one or two people then it is a waste of time and boring regardless of what occurs. If they believe you are going to state something ridiculous, they will attempt to silence you immediately. They seem to narrow down selections and possibilities for activities to a very short list.
    Hmm...does this really describe en ESFp? Maybe I read it again when I wake up...

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Negatives
    They have this belief that there is a proper manner to behave and they try to enforce it with those that don't because they feel everyone adheres to those standards as well. When it comes to going out, they feel that they must be with a high amount of people in order to have fun. If there is only one or two people then it is a waste of time and boring regardless of what occurs. If they believe you are going to state something ridiculous, they will attempt to silence you immediately. They seem to narrow down selections and possibilities for activities to a very short list.
    Hmm...does this really describe en ESFp? Maybe I read it again when I wake up...
    i think it does, at least in my experiences. my ESFp brother plans these house parties/get togethers and invites maybe 20 people or more, asking everyone to RSVP. if only a few people RSVP, he'll cancel the whole thing (who can blame him?) on the other hand, he never minds hanging out with just me and his ISTj wife.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Negatives
    They have this belief that there is a proper manner to behave and they try to enforce it with those that don't because they feel everyone adheres to those standards as well. When it comes to going out, they feel that they must be with a high amount of people in order to have fun. If there is only one or two people then it is a waste of time and boring regardless of what occurs. If they believe you are going to state something ridiculous, they will attempt to silence you immediately. They seem to narrow down selections and possibilities for activities to a very short list.
    Hmm...does this really describe en ESFp? Maybe I read it again when I wake up...
    i think it does, at least in my experiences. my ESFp brother plans these house parties/get togethers and invites maybe 20 people or more, asking everyone to RSVP. if only a few people RSVP, he'll cancel the whole thing (who can blame him?) on the other hand, he never minds hanging out with just me and his ISTj wife.
    Ok then It is just that I just spent yesterday with my wife and a female ESFp and we all had a good time even though there was basically only three of us (of course we saw other ppl during the day but they were only passing by). I find it rather easy to entertain ESFps (at least this one).

    So the point is the original post gives the impression it is hard to entertain ESFps and make them happy and it is pretty much impossible to do that without a big crowd. In my experience they get excited about very simple things that will usually keep them happy for quite a while. Take some photos of an entertaining situation and show them to the ESFp later and you can recreate the happy mood without any effort really This goes mostly for female ESFps and children since I don't have too much experience of adult male ESFps.

    About the controlling nature of ESFps...I don't know. I can't remember many times where I felt ESFp was trying to control me in a way I disliked. Sometimes they can make fun of something what I did (as a joke) which can be hurtful even if they intended it as a joke but it is rare. From my point of view ESFjs are way more controlling anyways and sometimes in an annoying way. With ESFps we often end up doing things I like to do but with ESFjs it is the other way around. I think this can actually be generalized so that I rarely find Fi people controlling but Fe people almost always. Might be a type specific thing though. Anyways I'm more likely to try to apply control to Fi ppl than they are to me

    In addition with ESTps I'm constantly trying to figure out whether they are happy or getting bored. With ESTps there is really no feedback. They just distance themselves from me when they get bored. This can be annoying because I might have thought we were having a good time. With ESFps the feedback is instant and direct so it is easy to understand if they are enjoying their time or not and adjust behavior accordingly. Sadly I can't compare ENFps and ENTps here because of lack of experience

    Again I'm not sure what purpose this post serves but I'm writing it anyways

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    we have the exact same opinion on ESFjs and ESFps. you should repost this in the "who are the real ESFjs?" thread.

    Take some photos of an entertaining situation and show them to the ESFp later and you can recreate the happy mood without any effort really.
    agreed.
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    I should of worded that statement more carefully. ESFps do enjoy having a good time with only a few friends, but the environment is a major factor. For example, if a few friends and an ESFp go watch a movie or relax at a house, then it perfectly fine for the small number of people to attend. However, if the venue is a club or a trip to another city/country than there must be at least 5 people or more or it won't be worth it.

    Basically, the importance or dramatic nature of the venue should equate to the number of people. The more inticing or interesting the area or activity, the more people required to attend and vice versa. It has everything to do with the surrounding area and that is the determining factor for the amount of people I believe this is linked to .
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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    So the point is the original post gives the impression it is hard to entertain ESFps and make them happy and it is pretty much impossible to do that without a big crowd. In my experience they get excited about very simple things that will usually keep them happy for quite a while. Take some photos of an entertaining situation and show them to the ESFp later and you can recreate the happy mood without any effort really This goes mostly for female ESFps and children since I don't have too much experience of adult male ESFps.
    no, but this is like, my tactic with everyone i date when things go bad. only SFs seem to respond to this, and i'm convinced they have the biggest memory stores if only because they seem to remember all the important shit. with one ex of mine (who was not ESFp) i would be like, "remember when bla bla bla happened" hoping to raise his mood or whatever even though i don't generally remember things like this. this just frustrated him. some SF guy actually brought up this awful joke the other day that i told him back when we were in highschool ("what has two legs and bleeds? - half a dog.")

    i agree that they're generally happy all the gd time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    So the point is the original post gives the impression it is hard to entertain ESFps and make them happy and it is pretty much impossible to do that without a big crowd. In my experience they get excited about very simple things that will usually keep them happy for quite a while. Take some photos of an entertaining situation and show them to the ESFp later and you can recreate the happy mood without any effort really This goes mostly for female ESFps and children since I don't have too much experience of adult male ESFps.
    no, but this is like, my tactic with everyone i date when things go bad. only SFs seem to respond to this, and i'm convinced they have the biggest memory stores if only because they seem to remember all the important shit. with one ex of mine (who was not ESFp) i would be like, "remember when bla bla bla happened" hoping to raise his mood or whatever even though i don't generally remember things like this. this just frustrated him. some SF guy actually brought up this awful joke the other day that i told him back when we were in highschool ("what has two legs and bleeds? - half a dog.")

    i agree that they're generally happy all the gd time.
    I do remember everything as well! Girls are usually amazed, I even remember what they say during the first dates .

    The jokes, too yes.

    I can't re-create any mood from pics though. I can re-create it from recalling a situation allright. Even improve
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