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Thread: Si Valuing Shut Down?

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    Default Si Valuing Shut Down?

    So after some research, I'm almost positive I'm an Si valuing type...probably Si dominant. The thing is, over the years I feel like people have tried to shut that down. My parents are constantly on my case about being more considerate of other people/stop being so selfish(although I wouldn't say I've been/am selfish, just less interested in other peoples lives and more involved with my own)For example: Someone is trying to move a box and I'm not really paying attention...thus I don't help them move it and the following conversation ensues- Parents: "You should've helped them move that" Me: "Move what?" Parents: "What do you mean, 'move what,' you saw them trying to move that box" Me: "Oh, I wasn't really paying attention, they seemed fine" Parents: "Well, maybe you should stop thinking about you all the time and start thinking about other people."

    I'm just not apt to help people if they don't ask for it...I'm like that. If I need help I ask, if I don't ask I usually don't want help. That translates into being, "selfish" to my parents, though.

    Another issue I dealt with growing up, were other kids labeling me a "pansy" or "wuss" because I didn't want to take certain risks-I'd rather go sit on the swings for a bit than play a round of tackle football. So I grew up being pressured by my peers into pushing Si aside and "manning up." I guess it got to me after awhile.

    So I've grown into rejecting one of my valued functions in favor of being more "acceptable." And since caving in and changing my behavior it's been causing a lot of stress in my life.

    I recently read this line in an SLI function breakdown, "SLIs are typically focused on what they are experiencing inside and are rarely aware of what qualities people around them might notice in them..." That describes me perfectly, when healthy. The thing is, over the years I've been force fed so much of this, "don't focus on what you're experiencing inside and focus more on what's outside" stuff, that I'm having difficulty getting back to the normal, healthy me. I seem to be able to tune back in if you will, but this learned behavior keeps coming back.

    Any ideas on how to break this habit and has anyone else dealt with this?

    Also, could this be any indication of my type? Just to clarify...I ignored everyone up until the age of maybe 16 and then I started adjusting my behavior.

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    No one has replied to this thread and they generally are good at it...
    Technically. Si-egos have the ability not only to recognize their own bodily states and how they feels, but they also have the ability to recognize those states in other people. Maybe you SHOULD think of other people a bit more. Take your example of the box.
    You should have recognized that:

    A. The person moving the box could have been agonizing over it due to it being cumbersome, too heavy, etc.
    B. The person might have had other things to move. You could have taken his or her box and moved it so that he or she could move something else, finishing the job quicker.

    So continue to focus on what's going on outside of you, but don't be a total ass about it. Pay attention to your surroundings with an intention of improving something, not challenging it. That's what I mean. That whole theater technology thing sounds pretty cool in my opinion.

    If you really want to get in touch with yourself more, just give yourself some time to yourself away from others so that there is no force tempting you. Maybe you've been forced too much by other people.

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    I don't understand why he should have to move things for other people and always be on the look out for whether someone is moving something and might need help especially when that someone isn't even asking for help. It's their responsibility to meet their own needs and if it's not working then it's their responsibility to find another way, which could involve getting help or not, depending.

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    As I said in chat the other day, he is happy to move stuff, all anyone has to do is ask. I can't understand why anyone would expect him to be a mind reader. I think he's fine to not notice until someone asks him, and people who want stuff moved should learn to communicate. And his mom shouldn't call him out in front of people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't understand why he should have to move things for other people and always be on the look out for whether someone is moving something and might need help especially when that someone isn't even asking for help. It's their responsibility to meet their own needs and if it's not working then it's their responsibility to find another way, which could involve getting help or not, depending.
    I have parents that would have wanted me to do similar things to what @Mechman 's parents wanted. I was sitting at some gathering my family was invited to and the hosts were getting more tables out to accommodate more guests. My dad then said to me "Help the host carry those tables, out." Was it my responsibility? No. Did the host ask for my help specifically? No. It's called being considerate which is a good trait to express at least every now and then.

    I was reluctant to help the hosts at first since I didn't know them at all, but that had to do more with shyness and it wasn't worth upsetting my dad by refusing...

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    I don't feel the need to be considerate in the form of paying attention to moving boxes and tables. I'm most likely not going to notice myself & may suddenly realize a table just appeared somewhere and I didn't know how it got there. If it was a small family gathering and we had to get out tables (as in my family) then I would feel it might be inconsiderate not to help (& I would probably be more drawn in and notice more), although I usually don't end up being the first to get to the things being dealt with. I also do try to meet the expectations of those close to me to some extent and may feel guilty if I don't. But I don't feel it's inconsiderate to not notice or do things that have little to do with me that aren't my job unless it's something I feel I'm actually good at and realize I can help with great ease & feel some degree of sympathy or obligation to the other person or interest in the activity. (Also I never feel it's inconsiderate not to notice something. Gah, how on earth can you help what you do and don't notice. And if you could make it so you notice more why expend all the effort mutilating yourself to be more observant when you simply aren't?) If I feel others are imposing their values on me or trying to turn me into a slave I tend to be far more cold and inconsiderate. I don't know how I would feel in your example HandiAce because it depends on too many things.

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    I don't relate. I notice what's going on around me and I help people out without them having to ask me, especially if they are struggling with something. I might not notice something if I'm busy, but I'm not that mentally distant and self-focused when around people. You kinda sound like my sister. I don't know if you're like this, but she's too lazy and hesitant to do something for you even if you ask her, but on the other hand she has no problem asking people to do things for her. And that is selfish.
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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    After thinking about it a bit, I think this issue is too complex, to start working on specifics like I've been doing/trying to do.

    Bottom line, I think I just let other people influence me too much as I got older and at this point, I'm having trouble really figuring out what is me and what is learned behavior. I was almost positive I was in the Caregiver romance group(Si Ego-Block) and just earlier I started to wonder if I might actually be an Infantile.

    Not sure you guys can help with this, but any ideas on how to sort through what's learned and what's natural?

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    Nurture and Nature are largely indistinguishable. The two are so intertwined that no one could possibly reach a deductive separation of the two, and anyone who attempts to is spouting an opinion or conjecture.

    Simply put, you are the sum of your nature and nurture. Any attempt to drop a part of yourself will just lead to regression.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Any attempt to drop a part of yourself will just lead to regression.
    Sounds good to me, although whatever I am right now isn't a genuine part of myself, it's some crap I created in the past couple of years.

    I don't think you're understanding the point of this whole thread. I'm currently stressed/depressed(potentially) all the time because I've been acting like the person everyone else wants and neglecting the actual ME and my own desires. I couldn't tell you 1 genuine interest of mine. I have absolutely no genuine opinions on anything, only a clump of those others have formed. I almost never experience genuine emotion, just a bunch of fake, calculated responses I've picked up over the past couple years...I feel like a friggin drone, walking around pre-programmed to be a certain way. I can't even hold a conversation with people outside of something like this, because it's like I have no personality.

    And again, this has only been going on for maybe 2-3 years now and I've known since it started something was off. Just recently I've started to feel like I'm coming back to normal, but I'm still not quite sure how to get out of this drone, do what everyone wants, mentality and just adopt my normal self back.

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    Stimulate yourself, man.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Stimulate yourself, man.
    Not sure exactly what that means.

    If it means what I think it does, I tried a bit last night, but I feel like every time I start to come in touch with myself again, I shut it out because I feel too vulnerable. Like if I share my honest opinions and whatnot with people, they'll have legitimate ammo against me, so as a self-preservation mechanism, I've shut myself down or something.

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    Life's a choice you know. They way you live it is up to you. You have to weigh which is more important, finding yourself with the risk of letting people in or Repressing yourself with less risk of being vulnerable. Personally i think the prior is more important and essential to happiness, but you might need thicker skin to get through the problems that arise from it.

    Something that helps me, is thinking about how lucky i am to have only the problems that i do. As Louis CK once said "There are some kids who are born hungry, and that's all they ever do, until they die." In the bigger scope of life, feeling vulnerable or cut-off is like getting dealt a hand that is still better than 70-80% of the rest of the world.

    But also, maybe you have a chemical imbalance, and that's why it feels insurmountable. And if thats the case than medication could be the way to go.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Update: I think part of my problem is this obsessive need to be accepted.

    I just realized that while I was sitting in chat, I had this reluctance to leave and I wasn't being honest with myself about wanting to. So I though about it for a second, and I realized I was keeping myself in the chat because I didn't want to "miss anything." Even though I didn't really care about the conversation, I felt I needed to be part of whatever was going on until it ended because I was missing opportunities to build friendships or something. As if every second passing without me was an issue.

    I feel like that could sum up 100% of my current issues with people. I feel like I always have to be everywhere with everyone and every second has to be dedicated to getting people to like me, regardless of my opinions. Even if I don't like the people, they need to become my friends and even if I don't like the subject/activity, I still need to talk about/participate in it, etc.

    I faced a ton of rejection in my childhood so maybe I just never got over it because I never dealt with it. So it's been manifesting itself as insecurity and a need to get other people to accept/like me, while simultaneously rejecting what I really care about in order to achieve that?

    For example: A few people decide they want to go watch a movie I really don't want to see, I'd still throw $12 away and go just so I don't miss out on anything.

    I found once I got honest with myself a second ago and thought, "feeling like crap isn't worth just having friends and if the only way to get them is by rejecting my own needs, then forget it."

    Thoughts?

    And yeah, I know I have issues...that's why I'm dealing with them. Also, this has only been a recent issue(2-4 years prob) following a ton of rejection in middle/high school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    But also, maybe you have a chemical imbalance, and that's why it feels insurmountable. And if thats the case than medication could be the way to go.
    If there's anything I'm sure about, it's that this isn't the issue. I've been doing this to myself.

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    I see what you're talking about. I think, to at least a small degree, most people can identify with that. I think being busy can help you out. The less time you have to yourself and the more energy you expend elsewhere, the harder it is to get down on yourself because you're already too exhausted. From personal expierience, working 12 hour shifts left me alot less neurotic, and alot less capable of monitoring myself because i was just too tired to give a fuck.

    There's a golden pebble of truth in the saying "Just dont give a fuck" but it can also be misleading. I think the best people who've ever lived largely "gave a fuck", but they managed to channel their fuck giving into something that brought them up, instead of down. Maybe you should try that. Catch yourself when you're giving a fuck, and transmute those thoughts into something that you feel you should give a larger fuck about.

    Here's a quote from T.S. Eliot that i like and feel is applicable to this situation.

    " Because I know that time is always time
    And place is always and only place
    And what is actual is actual only for one time
    And only for one place
    I rejoice that things are as they are and
    I renounce the blessed face
    And renounce the voice
    Because I cannot hope to turn again
    Consequently I rejoice, having to construct something
    Upon which to rejoice

    And pray to God to have mercy upon us
    And pray that I may forget
    These matters that with myself I too much discuss
    Too much explain
    Because I do not hope to turn again
    Let these words answer
    For what is done, not to be done again
    May the judgement not be too heavy upon us

    Because these wings are no longer wings to fly
    But merely vans to beat the air
    The air which is now thoroughly small and dry
    Smaller and dryer than the will
    Teach us to care and not to care
    Teach us to sit still.
    "
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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