Explain ESxx

[Kristiina]

ESxx types are probably the ones I know the worst. I can determine that someone is most probably ESxx, but it's difficult to type any further.

They seem to have a very strong presence. You can feel them in the same room. They control their body well, they seem forceful. I don't think I can recognize female ES types (maybe only female ESTp).

How does anyone continue from there and see the 4 different types: ESTp, ESTj, ESFp, ESFj.

[Joy]

ESxx... this topic makes my head hurt

SeFi, SeTi, FeSi, and TeSi are 4 very different types

[Kristiina]

Could someone knowledgeable please explain these types. I can't see the difference. I always add "might" - "He might be ESTp".

[FDG]

I have been told that I have a "strong presence", too.

I don't think I control my body well, though.

[Kristiina]

But if I recognize an ESxx (80% accuracy), where do I go from there?

[anndelise]

But if I recognize an ESxx (80% accuracy), where do I go from there?

Um, how about figuring out if it's Se or Si you are noticing?

[Kristiina]

But if I recognize an ESxx (80% accuracy), where do I go from there?

Um, how about figuring out if it's Se or Si you are noticing?

Is there any good way to determine whether it is Se-program or Si-creative?

[Expat]

ESxx types are probably the ones I know the worst. I can determine that someone is most probably ESxx, but it's difficult to type any further.

They seem to have a very strong presence. You can feel them in the same room. They control their body well, they seem forceful. I don't think I can recognize female ES types (maybe only female ESTp).

How does anyone continue from there and see the 4 different types: ESTp, ESTj, ESFp, ESFj.

I don't find that a good approach to typing.

ISTjs will control their body well and be forceful - - ISTj males generally will be more forceful than ESFj males.

I'd guess that most of those "ESxx"s you see are ESTps and ISTjs, with a few sensory subtypes ESFps.

If they are very jokey and talkative besides forceful, they are almost certainly ESXps. ESTjs are "softer".

[Expat]

But if I recognize an ESxx (80% accuracy), where do I go from there?

You might start by questioning this "80% accuracy" thingy.

[Creepy-pokeball]

You, sir, have the patience of a saint

[Kristiina]

I can recognize ISTjs. They don't really seem extroverted even if they are forceful. I don't see them as very difficult people to type. (except some ISTjs of course).

There is this girl. She didn't seem forceful, but she did seem extroverted and sensing. The kind of girl who would just meet her friends and go play football. Also, she seemed thinking to me. At least thinking for a girl. She was very nice, not cold and logical, but she didn't seem neither Fe nor strongly Fi. ESTj would seem like a possibility, especially because I have typed her boyfriend as "a possible ENFp". I see no possibility to clearly determine whether she either is or isn't ESTj, because I know 2 ESTjs and they are both over 40 and male.

Also there is this guy... He does seem forceful, but not in a bad way. He gets along with both me and Erkki. I could type him ESFp, but I don't know any ESFps. He could be ESTj in stead (a more tactful version than the other ones maybe).

I think my brother might be ESTp. He would be the only ESTp I know.

I don't know any ESFjs.

Conclusion: The next thing I want to learn is getting to know ESxx types. They might not be that similar, but they seem like a good lesson for me.

[Expat]

I still think that this is the wrong approach. I think you should not pay that much attention to this "extroverted" thing.

For example, ISFp men can appear more "extroverted" than ESFj men depending on their mood.

In the case of ESFps, yes, you're not likely to meet an "introverted" ESFp. But ESTjs can be rather quiet too.

ENFjs can be mistaken for ESFjs.

And so on.

I use a different approach with everyone. For some people it's more obvious whether they are rational or irrational - - in others, whether they are thinkers or feelers - - for other people, it's their dominant function, etc. And I always re-start from zero if I think my first typing was wrong.

If you start saying that someone is ESXx, and dismissing the possibility that they could be ISXx or ENXx, I think you'll have a lot of mistypings.

That is not the way to go about it.

[Kristiina]

Expat, I understand what you are saying. But I know most types and there is an accumulating amount of people who are Sensing, and not ISTj, ISTp, ISFj, ISFp. That leaves us ESxx. And I can't type them.

[.thursday]

the irrational es' seem to be louder and more obnoxious, the rational es' seem to be much more easy going (probably se si difference?). the rational es' are probably obssessed with perfection (Ne) and will not display weakness willingly (an example might be only wanting to play a game that they will usually dominate in). the irrational es' are almost paranoid about attention, and will/might use humor to put you/others down to make themselves seem more awesome.

[discourse]

Kristiina, I find it nice and even intelligent, how you look through all the people you know to see how socionic's relationships work with you. The idea of forming a system is great. :wink:

[Kristiina]

the irrational es' seem to be louder and more obnoxious, the rational es' seem to be much more easy going (probably se si difference?). the rational es' are probably obssessed with perfection (Ne) and will not display weakness willingly (an example might be only wanting to play a game that they will usually dominate in). the irrational es' are almost paranoid about attention, and will/might use humor to put you/others down to make themselves seem more awesome.

This is very good! I recognize many details in this and it's really good to know that these things are type-related. For example one ESTj actually does play games that he is good at. (If he has any choice which card came to play, he would convince everyone to play something in which he has an advantage.)

I also think I just typed those 2 people I described. ESTj and ESFp make sense. I need more information though... I don't dare to fit them in my system yet.

Kristiina, I find it nice and even intelligent, how you look through all the people you know to see how socionic's relationships work with you. The idea of forming a system is great. :wink:

Thanks. This made me happy.
If I have a system, it will make it easier to type new people. And if I know people's types, I will be better at communicating with them.

[XoX]

How does anyone continue from there and see the 4 different types: ESTp, ESTj, ESFp, ESFj.

Damn I wasn't supposed to write more today but here we go...

Assuming you are ENTj it should be easy to differentiate between ESFp and ESFj.

ESFp is in your quadra and is your activity partner (=easiest partner to start interacting with). It should be easy to understand what they mean and they should be quite fun (perhaps a bit chaotic and irrational but fun).

ESFj is in different quadra and is your super-ego i.e. it will always be a bit difficult to understand them or interact with them. The relationship will probably be way more formal than with ESFps. You might have more respect for ESFj than for ESFp though.

Generally speaking...ESFps are more focused on themselves (use the word I and me very very often). ESFjs are more focused on others often trying to control others or make sacrifices for them. ESFjs rarely talk about themselves in a way ESFps always do. ESFps joke and play tricks and mind games often trying to mislead you and then make a joke out of that (not in a rude way like ESTps but in a "fun" way). ESFjs usually take things more seriously and dislike people who play mind games or mislead others or generally are too chaotic. ESFjs try to do what is best for the community and individuality (their's or other's) is not that important.

If you call to ESFp and ask to do something (anything) she/he will probably be ready and excited about it. ESFj most likely is more picky about what she/he wants to do preferring to be the initiator and organize everything himself/herself. ESFps love to have fun, ESFjs love to organize and fulfill responsibilities. ESFj gives the impression of a stereotypical mother type (when older at least). ESFps are more like big children themselves (even when older).

ESTp and ESTj should be easy to tell apart using the same principles (i.e. ESTj is controlling, ESTp is fun loving). ESTj is responsible, sometimes serious, pretty much never spontaneous. Someone who might be boring company but who you can totally trust. ESTp is the opposite of that pretty much. When ESTj says "see you in one week" it means he really wants to see you in one week. When ESTp says "see you in one week" it means you are boring and he wants to get rid of you to find someone more fun.

Differences of ESFps and ESTps...One difference between ESFp and ESTp is that ESFps can and will make friends with anyone. ESTps are actually quite picky about who they hang out with. When you talk about starting relationships ESFps often try to "charm" the other person to fall in love with them where ESTps often try to "conquer" the other person so that they fall helpless in their arms like a good victim should. When ESFps fall in love they are really deeply in love and will do lots of weird and even stupid things for the target of their love. ESTps evaluates their "love" each and every day and demand more concrete action from the other to "stay in love" with them. ESTp Fi PoLR makes it hard for them to truly love in a Fi way which is easy for ESFps. ESFps are also very good at talking about their feelings where ESTps are really bad. You will probably know everything about your ESFp friend even things you dont want to know where the ESTp friend might not reveal anything personal even after long friendship.

ESFj and ESTj is easy to tell apart because ESFjs show a lot of emotion and enthusiasm where ESTjs don't. ESTjs is rarely enthusiast or full of passion etc. ESTj can also make rough and vulgar jokes and remarks. ESFjs only make remarks if you dont behave like you should

Ok that is enough for now Just an opinion not necessarily "the truth".

[FDG]

Very good Matti. I generally get along better with ENFps than ESFps, tho.

[Creepy-pokeball]

It is about time ya came back ya honky.

[XoX]

Hi F & J Nice to see that you are still around But I can't say I'm "back" yet. I'm still kind of in the summer mood. I'm occasionally here though

[implied]

that was awesome, XoX. that's basically the same impression i have about those types. (please post more? this is enforcing!)

[implied]

Very good Matti. I generally get along better with ENFps than ESFps, tho.

you're ESTj. ):<