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Thread: What is a male victim supposed to do with a female aggressor?

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    Default What is a male victim supposed to do with a female aggressor?

    Ok so ashton decided to let me know I'm an ENTj, which I agree with.

    ENTj is labelled as the "pseudo aggressor." First of all, wtf does that mean? Secondly, if ENTj's are "victims" to their dual, the aggressor ESI, then wtf am I supposed to do?

    As I mentioned in another thread, my typical method of meeting women is this:
    get phone number asap
    talk for a couple weeks then ask her out.

    Success rate? zero percent. My ex did most of the initiating last time.

    Anyway, my whole life I've felt like women come in and just... ruin me. They come in, they get all flirty with me, I chase after them, they never say yes to any of my date requests. Bullshit! I'm tired of it.

    So now that I've read that ENTj's are the victims and ISFj's are the aggressors, wtf does that mean? how does that work? Where should my strategy change?

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    LOL you are so obviously not ENTj. ENTjs do not avoid initiating, they are just bad at understanding relationships and they do not know what they want. That is what it means for the ISFj to be the aggressor, they are better at asserting what they want in a relationship. Maybe you are INFj instead, the INFj lets other people take the first action and they feel frustrated when other people do not live up to their expectations

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    I didn't say I avoided initiating. Where did I say that? I said I chase after them and ask them out on dates.

    My last relationship worked out somehow, but it was because my ex did all the initiating.

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    you bat your eyelashes and lead people in circles

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Ok so ashton decided to let me know I'm an ENTj, which I agree with.

    ENTj is labelled as the "pseudo aggressor." First of all, wtf does that mean? Secondly, if ENTj's are "victims" to their dual, the aggressor ESI, then wtf am I supposed to do?

    As I mentioned in another thread, my typical method of meeting women is this:
    get phone number asap
    talk for a couple weeks then ask her out.

    Success rate? zero percent. My ex did most of the initiating last time.

    Anyway, my whole life I've felt like women come in and just... ruin me. They come in, they get all flirty with me, I chase after them, they never say yes to any of my date requests. Bullshit! I'm tired of it.

    So now that I've read that ENTj's are the victims and ISFj's are the aggressors, wtf does that mean? how does that work? Where should my strategy change?
    Uh... "supposed to do?" Socionics can offer you a few ideas you didn't think of before in dealing with people, but it's just uh... archetypes. So don't try to follow the theory rigidly at all.

    Weird women, those. If someone asks me out and I want something from them I say okay.. if not, then not.

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    just stick it in and stop whining.

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    Keep your strategy (strategic type ) and change your negativistic personality (change it into a positivist just like an ENTj would be ). Then, you will find yourself not needing much help and reassurance in this department because ISFj are not your dual.

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    This isn't an issue related to Socionics at all, IMO. Or at least it's only partly potentially about Socionics. But anyway . . .

    How you approach women is only half of the issue. The other half, and maybe more than half, is that you approach the right women. The ones who don't respond to how you are naturally are probably not the right ones for you. Maybe you've been going after women who are not terribly compatible. I'd forget about Socionics and how to use it to try to create some kind of advantage, and just open up and consider a wider variety of women- see if there are girls you've been overlooking. My guess is you're chasing after the wrong girls.

    So anyway I'd be natural, and if how you've been approaching women feels natural to you then do that, but be open to considering other girls as possible dates. The ones who respond to how you approach them naturally might be more compatible anyway. The ones you are currently not having luck with might not be as compatible.

    Be yourself!
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    I approach women with humor and being a smartass by talking about various stuff (depending on their areas of interest). SEEs and IEEs seem to like that.
    The victims and aggressors in the gamma quadra enjoy little games of power. Gamma aggressors like to have some opposition (unlike betas who are more into complete submission) and gamm victims like to play "hard to get"
    That is oversimplification of course but I can see this irl. I have friends who are couple (LIE and ESI) and he was the one hitting on her in the beginning. He is generally more active than her but as far as their relationship is concerned he leaves things in her hands. He opposes her and gets his way occasionally when her plans are in conflict with his plans but otherwise it is up to her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I'd forget about Socionics and how to use it to try to create some kind of advantage, and just open up and consider a wider variety of women- see if there are girls you've been overlooking. My guess is you're chasing after the wrong girls.

    How do you estimate that he's been going after the wrong women?
    You're asking him, a Strategic Static type to change his strategy. That requires a change in one's impression of things.

    Which should be what this thread is about. We're all, in our own way, asking DJ to change his impression of what's going on so he can stop making the same or similar mistakes over and over again, but obviously, with Static types, certain things are comfortable.

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    I don't care about his strategy or what strategy he uses. I'm telling him to open up and consider other girls. Whatever strategy he wants to use with them or whatever, just consider other girls with it. Do what comes naturally, just don't limit yourself.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Also, the answer to every problem doesn't have to be about Socionics. I don't care what type he is - the answer to this problem is that he be himself. No one of any type should behave in a way that is unnatural to them in an attempt to find people to date, because they will potentially attract people not naturally attracted to them. Oh hmm that's awkwardly written. If you act like yourself, you're more likely to attract people who will be compatible with you, regardless of what type you are.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Slacker, that's not necessarily true; someone just being themselves, even naturally, are likely to attract any type. People look for different things at different stages of their lives.

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    He apparently doesn't have that problem. LOL.

    (Based on what he said - that women aren't responding. Not saying anything negative against the OP.)
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    What is a male victim supposed to do with a female aggressor?
    Bend over and take it. The strap-on, I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    This isn't an issue related to Socionics at all, IMO. Or at least it's only partly potentially about Socionics. But anyway . . .

    How you approach women is only half of the issue. The other half, and maybe more than half, is that you approach the right women. The ones who don't respond to how you are naturally are probably not the right ones for you. Maybe you've been going after women who are not terribly compatible. I'd forget about Socionics and how to use it to try to create some kind of advantage, and just open up and consider a wider variety of women- see if there are girls you've been overlooking. My guess is you're chasing after the wrong girls.

    So anyway I'd be natural, and if how you've been approaching women feels natural to you then do that, but be open to considering other girls as possible dates. The ones who respond to how you approach them naturally might be more compatible anyway. The ones you are currently not having luck with might not be as compatible.

    Be yourself!
    Thank you Slacker for this great advice. I knew there was something wrong with my strategy!
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Q: What does a male victim do with a female aggressor?

    A: Whatever the hell she wants.
    Easy Day

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    "Be yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people. I don't know about DJ, though
    Last edited by Gravolez; 05-28-2012 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravolez View Post
    "Be yourself" is the worst adive you can give to some people.
    As in they aren't good enough to be themselves?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Even if you attract fewer women, at least the few you attract are genuinely attracted to you, and you'll have a much better chance at a decent relationship.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    He's very good looking, I'm sure he has no problem in attracting women.

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    Yeah he's a nice looking guy, but if he's going for quantity, it might not be the best choice. Especially as he IS a nice looking guy and could have a smaller quality and still have women attracted to him. I still think people should just be authentic to themselves, and project themselves as they are rather than trying to be different from themselves in order to attract people. In any circumstnaces. But it shouldn't hurt him.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    What if you only attract women you don't like or find repulsive?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    In the long run, you don't have to attract that many if you're attracting ones you have a better chance at a relataionship with.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    What I'm trying to say is that being yourself doesn't necessarily attract the compatible ones.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Compatible doesn't mean "girls I find hot." It means "girls I might get along with." Among them, you will have to try to find one you find hot. Keep looking. You are very young. Do you want a relationship advice thread? Go start one! I'd suggest for an SLI that you need to probably get out in the world more where you are around women. If you're having trouble, it's probably that you aren't where they are and not a problem of girls you might be compatible with not being attracted to you.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    For instance, by being myself I don't really allow people to see me for who I really am. Does that make sense? Hint: Myself is reserved and guarded around strangers, and when myself tries to say or do something it often comes out wrong and gives a totally wrong impression. Myself gets inhibited when he likes someone.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Compatible doesn't mean "girls I find hot." It means "girls I might get along with." Among them, you will have to try to find one you find hot. Keep looking. You are very young. Do you want a relationship advice thread? Go start one! I'd suggest for an SLI that you need to probably get out in the world more where you are around women. If you're having trouble, it's probably that you aren't where they are and not a problem of girls you might be compatible with not being attracted to you.
    You read me like an open book. Except I know what compatible means and I used it as such
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Even if you attract fewer women, at least the few you attract are genuinely attracted to you, and you'll have a much better chance at a decent relationship.
    I really don't want to quote the dozens of cool people who said it but : "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not."
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    DJ, You are an obvious ESTp and an aggressor.

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    You want it too badly. Just ask a girl you like out and be neutral with it. Make it sound like it would be fun/a good idea, but it's like you're holding on to a wanted outcome.

    Build relationships with many people. Just not a special someone. Special someones can't fix us up or save us, at least not all the time. (If it's too good you'll have to worry about other people stopping it anyway like Romeo and Juliet. Nothing comes without a price.) Like Chris Crocker says, having a boyfriend/girlfriend is really nice and all that but you really have to love yourself first! Have your own place and a job if you don't already.

    Talk to more friends, more male friends/buddies, just more people, work on networking, building up your professional life, finding skills you are good at and other people you mesh with on many other levels. This is what narcissistically beautiful Hollywood people do of course, and it works.

    Calling yourself a "victim" in any capacity is also what's holding you back. Victims can't make any sort of happy life for themselves. They are victims. Victims can only be sociopathically abused by others. You want a girl to be interested in you as a mate, not feel sorry for you. Having empathy is of course part of the deal but never the entire part.

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    Wow. BnD is making sense AND not sounding gay. Good post, bro.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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