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Thread: ni egos: do you see yourself as manipulative?

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    Default ni egos: do you see yourself as manipulative?

    be honest.

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    Good question.

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    yes. I often know very well what to say to generate a particular response, or not. I'm highly conscious of that ability of mine. Also I can manipulate my own moods, knowing how they affect others. Whether I'm ignoring people or not, who I'm talking to, who is watching me, I know exactly what's going on and how to control the mood. I can't make anyone do anything and I don't pretend to have any real force, but sometimes the ability to make people feel a certain way can have its own power.

    I'm also *extremely* stubborn when it comes to this. I don't like being manipulated by others in this way so I will determine how I'm going to feel, or be, and stick to that, no matter what. Like "you can't force me to be angry" or "just try to annoy me, it'll never work" or " no matter what you say, I'm going to put a positive spin on it." Really interesting results too. I mean there comes a point at which I just cannot be messed with, emotionally. I'm like a solid steel foundation sometimes, on the inside. That's not to say that I never fall apart, but I don't allow others to pull me down, visibly. I feel like I mostly have control over myself in that area.

    My mother will say things to plant doubt in my mind and I pretty much toss it out the window with a smile. So then she tries again and it's kind of amusing because she loses to my determined happiness every single time. I dunno. I'm difficult.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    No. But i could be if i was less risk averse.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    I can be manipulative, yes, but I see that more as a product of my Fe than my Ni. My urge to manipulate usually stems from a desire to subtly control that which is out of my full control, I think.

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    I don't see myself that way.
    I've had some success in the area while playing Werewolf (a social game), so I think I could. But in real life, I prefer not to risk people becoming wary of me.
    To me manipulativeness sounds more like something the fans of Fi would be into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadeseeker View Post
    I don't see myself that way.
    I've had some success in the area while playing Werewolf (a social game), so I think I could. But in real life, I prefer not to risk people becoming wary of me.
    To me manipulativeness sounds more like something the fans of Fi would be into.
    no, no, the beauty of it is that people don't know what you're doing. It's completely under the radar. And often not entirely conscious yourself. Sometimes I don't realize I'm even doing anything until I look back. it's... just there, like what comes naturally.

    and you're right, it's not Ni alone but Fe in the service of Ni. (imo)

    Like I said in another thread, it's the only real power I have, at least that seems to make sense to me as a "power". lol
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Only in very specific realms where I feel very confident (i.e. work or academic realm) - not so much in the social sphere.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    i agree & and relate with what redbaron wrote!
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    and you're right, it's not Ni alone but Fe in the service of Ni. (imo)
    yes, this. in socionics-speak i would say the manipulation is done with your Creative function because it is Mental/Producing/Contact/Strong.

    Mental functions (1, 2, 3, 4): Individual analyzes a certain aspect of reality consciously and strives to verbalize it.
    Producing functions (2, 4, 6, 8): Ability to produce new things of a certain kind based on information from the preceding accepting function.
    Contact functions (2, 3, 5, 8) are essentially how we touch upon the environment; they adapt and integrate new experiences from the environment. ... The creative function produces new information out of what is accepted by the base function. This is literally how we uniquely 'make contact' with the world.
    Strong functions (1, 2, 7, 8): Individual has a confident command and large amount of information of a certain kind and can forcefully influence other people and his surroundings in a certain way.
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...on_dichotomies
    http://www.socionics.us/theory/model.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    no, no, the beauty of it is that people don't know what you're doing. It's completely under the radar. And often not entirely conscious yourself. Sometimes I don't realize I'm even doing anything until I look back. it's... just there, like what comes naturally.

    and you're right, it's not Ni alone but Fe in the service of Ni. (imo)

    Like I said in another thread, it's the only real power I have, at least that seems to make sense to me as a "power". lol
    Oh, you mean those kind of things. Yes, definitely there. For some reason I was thinking more about scheming Fi things that people could find out later.

    If it's things like clerks who are usually lazy and grumpy treating me nicely or like people doing things my way despite someone giving them logical reasons to do something else.
    I've only recently started to notice this consciously myself. And always after the fact.

    There's definitely Fe at work there. But maybe people with Te could do something similar too, but using some other mechanism.

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    sometimes i notice people trying to influence me in a covert way and if i like them and don't mind what theyre doing it can kind of be like "aw, they're going out of their way to not be bossy or annoying about it, how clever" and i don't mind. but i wonder if it would bother them if they knew that i saw it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post

    and you're right, it's not Ni alone but Fe in the service of Ni. (imo)

    Like I said in another thread, it's the only real power I have, at least that seems to make sense to me as a "power". lol
    I think it could also be a subtype effect (harmonizing), at least partially.

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    I also agree with what redbaron said, and I also feel that it's related to Fe a lot more than Ni. I guess Ni tells me what end I want, but then it's completely out of the picture as Fe does the dirty work...
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    I guess the Ni allows for foreseeing how certian actions would turn out in the future so it should help in those matters. ILIs (me included) are also manipulative, though their means and approach are a little different. Maybe a Te approach is more indirect and involves using more arrangement of circumstances, events, objects and so on rather than direct interaction with other people. Also more related to Fi and long term benefits rather than smallscale.
    Not that I am some great deceiver but I sense I can see what will benefit me or harm me in the long run and if I decide it is important I take measures.
    I have no idea however if this is considered manipulation

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    No. I'm not clever or interesting enough to be manipulative.

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    Manipulation is just the will and the ability to influence others. Influencing others and getting influenced by them is a normal part of any social interaction, not something particular to some type. Ni-egos may just go about it differently than other types, but really, everyone does this.

    Azeroffs made a thread some time ago http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tive-by-nature about how Ni-creatives may come off as being manipulative, since both Ni-creative types are strategic, meaning that they are inclined to set some goal for themselves and then attempt to orchestrate their actions as well as events and people in their life in direction of that goal. I've noticed they aren't always open about what it is that they are aiming for, though I don't know how explicit this process is for them - most of it is probably just implicit.

    In comparison, Ni-dominants are tactical types, and as IPs they may feel incapable of exerting much influence but instead observing and forecasting where the current of events is flowing, and then becoming involved at the right point and at the right time to direct this current into another course. There isn't directed, concerted orchestration as with Ni-creatives, who seems to want to create the currents rather than just coordinate their flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CONFIMED View Post
    No. I'm not clever or interesting enough to be manipulative.
    lol, I don't believe you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal
    I've noticed they aren't always open about what it is that they are aiming for, though I don't know how explicit this process is for them - most of it is probably just implicit.

    In comparison, Ni-dominants are tactical types, and as IPs they may feel incapable of exerting much influence but instead observing and forecasting where the current of events is flowing, and then becoming involved at the right point and at the right time to direct this current into another course. There isn't directed, concerted orchestration as with Ni-creatives, who seems to want to create the currents rather than just coordinate their flow.
    yeah I know what manipulation is but I was curious about the specifics when it comes ni egos, and if it would be typical or not for them to describe themselves that way. basically that ^ is what I wanted. thanks for the link too.

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    yeahhhh this. this post from the thread @siuntal posted is exactly what I had in mind when I made this thread.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post612648

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    Quote Originally Posted by CONFIMED View Post
    No. I'm not clever or interesting enough to be manipulative.
    BULL!

    EDIT: Seriously though... Bull.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    yeahhhh this. this post from the thread @siuntal posted is exactly what I had in mind when I made this thread.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post612648
    Uhm, I doubt gamma NTs would be really good at that kind of intrigue. You require some good "feeling" skills to set it up easily. Maybe it'd be easier for them (us) to unwittlingly lead someone towards a role that fits our own life-project or such. Sometimes though it seems like xSI almost like it, gives them something to look forward to.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I see most Ni-EJs as manipulative. It's what ultimately damages my relationships with them.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Azeroffs made a thread some time ago http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tive-by-nature about how Ni-creatives may come off as being manipulative, since both Ni-creative types are strategic, meaning that they are inclined to set some goal for themselves and then attempt to orchestrate their actions as well as events and people in their life in direction of that goal. I've noticed they aren't always open about what it is that they are aiming for, though I don't know how explicit this process is for them - most of it is probably just implicit.
    Exactly. And it's kind of disgusting, especially when they're going stealth mode for some banal things. Why not just be honest and straightforward?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I'm good with emotions. I know how somebody wants me to feel and be to get along with them. Some people want me to be grumpy and mad at the world. Some people want me to be soft and kind. Other people want me to be a bad-ass. Some people want me to travel the world with them, always listening and being their empathetic ear. Very few people want me to be myself: Just a person who writes a lot.

    I very keenly sense what other people want from me. I sense what I can do to make them happy. I notice when I did what they asked, they liked me a lot and supported and stuck up for me and gave me money. Yes it's manipulative but looking at it that way seems overly pessimistic and self-defeating. The world is run on manipulation. It's manipulative as hell for the Jews to make that much money off of you, but they still do. Part of making it in this world is getting off our moral high horses and not a lot of people can really do it.

    I'm a manipulative, unkind cunt. I have my share of my positives but mostly I'm a narcissistic demon like everybody else. I really wish it wasn't this way. But your true soul and heart is hard to find for a reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSvkfy3ddrk

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    No more than most people who don't know they are manipulative.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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