Te activating function/hidden agenda of IEEs-ENFps
It was only fair...
I actually just realized how self-centered I am, in the sense that I've read tons more SLI descriptions and discussions than IEE ones, and how ignorant I've been in general towards types I don't identify with. So I'd like to hear from IEEs. Tell me about yourselves. Doesn't have to be about your hidden agenda or socionics related at all, just... talk. Gilly is allowed to impersonate you (on cam), if need be.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
I wish I could offer something useful...
I don't really feel confident enough of my understanding of socionics to comment.
BUT..I'd like to share a story from when I was at hkkmr's house cooking with glam and hkkmr that MIGHT demonstrate Te-HA. I don't really know:
We were cooking and hkkmr asked me to grate some cheese. I had never used this kind of cheese grater and asked him, "Is there a right way to do this?" because I wasn't sure of how to do it the best way. I'm sure I could have figured it out, and I did, but..I just wasn't sure of the best way. He showed me a way to do it, but then I found an easier way.
Not sure if that's an example or not.Maybe.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
My notes on NeFi's Te hidden agenda:
To seek out knowledge and experiences, as those are what our associations will be drawn from. The wider the variety of associations, the more Ne available.
To know how well what we are thinking about or feeling fits in with reality. Will seek external confirmation or alternative ideas from others.
Giving us a subjective opinion with no details of what led you to that opinion doesn't help us. We need the details, the actions you saw, how the event unfolded, and what you were paying attention to during the event. Basically, we want the Objective Story with the Subjective Emotions, but not the subjective conclusion. We'll draw that ourselves once we feel we have sufficient story details.
For example, saying "My boss hates me" provides virtually no information. What did your boss DO that led you to that conclusion?
Of course, the answers to those questions might lead to us offering alternative meanings to the events/actions involving your boss. Thus allowing us to provide you with more applicable alternatives than concluding "She hates you".
The more Story information you give us, the better we can fine tune our understanding of how you felt during its happenings. (also how other participants may have felt during same happenings)
So in essence, "To Know" includes:
A) obtaining Objective Knowledge/Facts related to an interest/topic
B) obtaining Variety of Personal Experiences interacting with things, people, and events.
C) hearing your Stories, including what you Felt and Thought as it was happening.
D) help grasping How to Do something (preferably efficiently if not exploratively), and any Facts/Knowledge related to that. (but without forcing on us a One True Way for doing it)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
OMG u guys met up??? sounds like it was fun! Need a thread on impressions!
I wish I could offer something useful...
I don't really feel confident enough of my understanding of socionics to comment.
BUT..I'd like to share a story from when I was at hkkmr's house cooking with glam and hkkmr that MIGHT demonstrate Te-HA. I don't really know:
We were cooking and hkkmr asked me to grate some cheese. I had never used this kind of cheese grater and asked him, "Is there a right way to do this?" because I wasn't sure of how to do it the best way. I'm sure I could have figured it out, and I did, but..I just wasn't sure of the best way. He showed me a way to do it, but then I found an easier way.
Not sure if that's an example or not.
anyway yeah i think that might be an example of Te-HA, in particular you searching for an easier way to do it after being shown one way.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Thanks for making this thread, Park! I was actually thinking of making a thread to share what i think was a Te-HA phenomenon that happened with me yesterday, but i guess i'll just share it here! So I was at a bike shop... I am sort of a beginner at biking and dont know much about bikes, so i've been shopping around and asking a lot of questions. So anyway, at this one bike shop i was at yesterday, this guy who was "helping" me, I noticed after a little while that he was hemming and hawing a lot at like almost every question i asked him (turns out he was new), but he was trying to fake me answers instead of just saying "i dont know" and going to find out or asking someone.
So finally, i was like "I would rather that if you dont know the answer, you would find out the right answer for me instead of just giving me your own guesses. It's *OK* if you dont know. Just ask someone who does know, because i want to know the real answer."
Mostly it just irritated me a lot that he was doing that. I felt like my time was being wasted with fake info just because he wanted to give the appearance of being competent.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Hello. Where my duals at?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
just for you parkster~
For me, Te HA manifests as a strong push towards precision in verbal and written coherency. When trying to convey a serious observation or hypothesis, I make sure that my ideas are conveyed in as exact a way to my original interpretation as possible. When I'm not in the flow of things this get awfully draining though, as I have to force myself to stay focused and push onward. I also have immense appreciation for people who are able to do the same, when the ideas they have just spill out so naturally and with such verbal precision. Even now I'm struggling to come up with more specific examples of what I'm trying to describe, but I continue to push myself for the sake of self-betterment. In this way I don't really seek ways in which I can be more "efficient" with my activities, as the popular dogma would have you believe; rather, I find myself seeking greater clarity and depth in how one conveys his/her ideas, as opposed to summing things up under an arch of generalizations.
You did well, my friend. You should hear this IEE (or whatever she is) talk. Total havoc. <3
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I only deleted it because I edited the post later so that whatever aforementioned fail I made would be remedied. Thanks though lol
There's an Ne-IEE friend of mine I've talked about a few times on here, he would interrupt his own train of thought mid-sentence because some other unrelated idea would come to mind and he just had to get it out. Super smart and super good guy, but could be such a pain in the ass to talk with sometimes haha
I go through life, especially at my job, learning new things, asking myself, "How the heck am I supposed to do this!? AAAAAAA!"
I want to be a master of things, but find myself falling short somedays and it hurts.
I usually spend more time thinking about doing something I don't want to do instead of doing it.
This makes you a human being, congrats.
I don't know enough about Hidden Agenda to know if I am answering this correctly, but that the IEE HA is "To Know" seems right to me, and the following is how that manifest to me in my life.
When I met and fell for my SLI Dual, who I did not know was my Dual, I only know I fell for him, I was driven to know more about him. I already knew him very well from many 100s of emails writtren over the years as friends. But now that everything "switched" suddenly to more-than-friends after meeting him, I wanted to know him better.
We were constrained by distance so in my effort to know him better I researched his Briggs-Meyer's type***, ISTP. Then I stumbled on Socionics ISTp description and I liked that even better. I found at the time that the friendliest place to communicate was on PerC, though, they jumped on me when I tried to correlate Briggs and Socionics. Then I was driven to know why they did that, and learned a lot more about both so I could understand. I also loved and still enjoy writing and reading there to in order to know about his type.
I was rewarded in my search to know by discovering Socionics relationship theory and then Duality, which explained a whole lot.
I love learning the relationship theory, not only to explain our Duality but to explain what MY SLI went through as Supervisee in his long marraige. II love it because it helps me to know why he is the way he is now. Why he is overly co-dependent with his SEE daughter, and learning about their relationship type helps me see that he will have more success standing up to SEE who copies her mother's disrespecting bossy ways, than he did his ESE wife. MY SLI is open to my thoughts on all these matters, and my advice, however, I do not want to advise till I know enough to understand the situation well. (a situation I know is wrong, as as I told him, I cannot tolerate).
In other ways, I enjoy "knowing the right way to do things, I like to research the best way to garden, the best way to parent, to cook this or that, etc., etc. I can go overboard Googling things, just because I enjoy knowing them. Its one of the things I have to limit.
Also, if I see error in something, or inconsistency, its hard to let it go till I know why. Fore example, inconsistencies in my Evangelical Christian faith led me to research and know why certain questionable theology was taught. It led me to Catholic teaching, which I thought for sure certainly had to be untrue. So I research that, in order to know exactly why Catholicism was wrong, since I wa so sure it was - I simply needed to find/know the proper info to back up my certainty. The surprise was I ended up knowing it was true instead of false, then faced the completely unexpected situation of accepting a faith-religion practice I had never been drawn to, ever, when I realized what I had come to know was that its claims were true.
So those are some of the places that desire to know has brought me.
While I agree with the HA of "to know" for IEE, its seems instead a tool for more. Ultimately I want to love, as that is what matters in life. And I think that to know is to understand, and to understand is to love.
So you see, that crosses into other agendas. I wonder if other type's HA's also cross over into other agendas. For example, if your HA is "to be wealthy", I mean, really, is that the end goal? Are those with these types just as shallow as that agenda? My guess is no - that they have a higher agenda, and their HA is the tool to that highter goal, just in the same way that I have a higher agenda than "to know"- which is ultimately on its own pretty shallow, too. Information gathering - I mean, one can search all ones life and fill oneself up with knowledge and still be a fool.
Just wildly guessing here, but if one's HA is "To be wealthy" perhaps he/she wants to be wealthy in order to be loved, and wants to be loved in order to love. And so on with the other agendas. Perhaps all the types have HAs that are interconnected, as I think mine are.
I remember researching Erotic Types on this forum, and someone, I think on this Socionics forum, came up with a real interesting theory about how the Erotic type is only one part of a set. If you are for example the childlike erotic type, then you might be an aggresser spiritually, and a victim mentally, and a teacher.. I forgot what other category is. And it made sense with the types I know; I think he was onto something. So I wonder if there is not further inter-connectedness with our HAs.
Just a thought. I really need to stop typing! Its that dratted drive "to know"!
***[It happens to be Briggs-Meyers ISTP as well as Socionics SLI/ISTp - and I have heard it said that there is "no correlation" between the two but for some, like my SLI, there happens to be a matchign correlation. But Socionics is the most thorough descriptions,fare superior to Briggs.]
Are you E7 anndelise?
That's somewhat interesting you mention that. It "defeats" those socionics-enneagram correlations flung like dog shit around here. Anything to back up your claim?
I think you are asking me? Are are you mixing me up with anndelise? I am not sure how my saying that, in this case, my ISTP is ISTp correlates with defeating socionics-enneagram theory. ?? Also what claim are you wanting me to back up? Or do you have me mixed up with anndelise?
I am Enneagram 2 and I am not that knowledgeable about Ennegram. (I think its 2w1, 9w1, 7w6...) I prefer Socionics.
I am, I quoted you, I quoted Eliza Thomason. Excuse me if you're not Eliza Thomason and I quoted the wrong person and thanks for answer. That's enough for me.
Lets just say that I'm a geek at heart. There are mechanical things that I like to play with and I like knowing how they work. Not only is understanding the essence of how things work important to me, but the sheer facts are also something I take pride in knowing. I like to get conversations going by bringing up interesting facts!
Past my own personal interests, Te is seen as overkill, but still useful nonetheless.
Deltas love the Discovery channel, myrite?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Absolutely!!Deltas love the Discovery channel, myrite?
Only thing that would suck though is if a person was to say "You got that from the Discovery Channel didn't you?".
*sadface*
I wanted to revive this thread because something very eye-opening to me, yet simple really describes the essence of Te and Si's role in the IEE.
I find that almost everyday I am constantly trying to analyze how to have fun and make enjoyable experiences. However, the irony of all of that is that I end up getting frustrated with myself and don't end up having any fun at all!
I have this general insecurity that I don't know enough. I feel I need to know as much information as possible, I often wonder why exactly but I suppose without knowledge I am ignorant of the world. I need to know what's happening in one field or another, I don't need to be an expert but I need to know enough to hold my own in a conversation, I need to be able to interact with anyone from any field, I want to be able to get an idea of all the different expertise in the world and I want to try and see to what extent they're related. I know that all the different theories and pools of knowledge in this world cannot be truely integrated, but yet at the same time I have found myself wanting to take a linking role in society... someone may have a great idea and I might say.. that sounds really interesting, have you heard of this theory or this study or something else. I often find that there is a whole wealth of knowledge and understanding that lurks a layer or two behind the obvious. I don't think that I am a person who will contribute a great deal to developing these in detail, but I do find that 'specialists' despite their expertise can sometimes carelessly extrapolate beyond their field and into areas where they may meet contradictions. I often feel I need factual information to keep a track on these contradictions, even if it is in a small localised way... I suppose. I suppose it helps me understand different perspectives, trying to get bits from all these different points of view.
In terms of Te in the in it's more practical manifestations, I ended working as a theatre technician for a good few years, I don't really know how as I'm pretty crap at that sort of stuff. Anyway I love wikipedia and books and documentaries.
Last edited by somavision; 09-11-2012 at 05:25 PM.
IEE-Ne
That's plain stupid. It only shows the MBTI concept of making judgements based on values, not that you're using reason to support your conclusions. You were reaised as a Christian so being a Christian is a value to you. It really doesn't matter tha both Evangelical and Catholic belifs are in the same leage (shit), you don't have enough courage to dump it all. It would be against your whole value system.
Next time your'e considering giving your beliefs a secod thought, start by analyzing how is it that you came with those ideas in the first place. I bet God didn't come and tell you everything, you probably heard about it in the Church or from your parents. And they in turn heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone... get the point? Thing is, your belief system is based on conventionalism. You simply abrorb the values around you and make them yours. And you start to resent it because you know intuitively it's not right. I assume you live in the US, so it's not surprising that you're Christian but would it be the same had you born in India? Would your ideas be the same had you lived 2500 years ago in Greece? Do you think you'd be Christian if both of your parents were atheists?
If you really want to find the truth, you have to become an individual, this is, stop being so extroverted in socionics terms and become a bit more introverted and derive your own beliefes from whitin. But be warned, individuals are not well liked as people expects positive feedback and sympathy when they express their prejudices. Few are strong enough to take healthy criticism.
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| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
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