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Thread: Quadras: My Perspective Pt 1

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    Default Quadras: My Perspective [Pt 1]

    I originally meant to post this in this thread but w/e.

    Alpha has always struck me as sort of material-driven quadra. There was a group of kids in my class who were always impeccably dressed, who had mild culturally-appropriate humour and who were in the loop with all the new movies and all the new music and who looked so clean and perfect all the time -- those were the Alpha kids. I think every school has a clique like this. Of course every quadra has their own definition of fun so maybe calling it the "fun" quadra isn't right and I think a better term would be "light-hearted". Alpha is the light-hearted quadra, the people who like to keep things light and airy. There's this weird sort of consistency in how they approach situations/interests which is to pursue them as long as they fit the overall aesthetic appeal of their personality and/or group to stay within the confines of what they identify with, which could range from being an otaku to being a goth and everything in-between. I don't see Alphas as particularly weird but I see a propensity towards being interesting, like they try hard to come off as "interesting people" by dressing perfectly and having streamlined interests and being generally filtered. (Note: This is slightly biased towards Alpha SFs.)

    Beta is simultaneously very similar to and very different from Alpha. There was another group in my class who would sit in the back of the class, make noises or pass comments and do other "funny" things. They would disrupt everyone's concentration and piss teachers off and really just make it annoying as hell for everyone who was not in on the joke. They were also always dressed well but it seemed less ubiquitous than Alphas, looked less like actors-having-walked-out-of-a-movie-set and more like people who knew how to impress. They were the Beta kids. The weird thing about them was that they didn't do all that because they had anything to rebel against -- they did it because they thought it's just what people do, just what they had to do. If they didn't do it, no one else would. If they saw an opening to slip their humour into, they would just do it, because once the moment is over you might regret never doing it. In the betas I've met, there's always this disinclination to take part in "group activities", the kind of stuff that is orchestrated solely for the purpose of "having fun". To them it seems fake and put on, and they much rather prefer to be swept in by the moment, to live the present to the fullest intensity, to do everything, to feel everything and leave nothing to regret. (Note: Slightly biased towards Beta EXXx, but similar themes run course in both Beta IXXx)

    I don't think there was a Gamma equivalent in my school, lol. I mean there were a few people who were distinctly Gamma but I don't think they ever coalesced into a clique or anything. I remember there were these two guys, Se-ESFp and Te-INTp, who would sit at the far end of the class who wouldn't talk very much but when asked to parody someone, they would quickly jump up and do hilariously well. In strict contrast with Betas who relied, I suppose, on subtler cues to join in on the fun where they saw an opening, the Gammas would wait for the "right time" to be funny, to make noises or joke around, when they could be absolutely sure they wouldn't annoy anyone. None of the Gammas I knew cared much for clothing or whether they looked "good", they dressed kind of shabby except when they were formally required to dress well, there was no "aesthetic tone" to the things they did or said and neither did they put much value in those things. Gammas struck me as the most "be real" quadra, as the people least judgmental of differences or disabilities or things like that.

    The Deltas I was around in school were generally non-disruptive, didn't make much noise not because they were scared of getting caught but because they saw it as an agreement between themselves and the teacher to not disturb the class (I see an animosity towards such "made up" agreements in Betas, similar to how they don't appreciate any "made up" attempts to increase affinity between people, whereas Deltas process things in terms of these agreements). They weren't entirely dull, though, they were appreciative of novelty and weirdness (as long as it didn't break any of the aforementioned agreements) and despite being so "earthy", they had secret fetishes for fantasy fiction or prog rock or science fiction or so. One thing I find about deltas is that there's a ubiquitous conflict between what they embrace and what they reject; almost all of them simultaneously reject social customs/norms and follow them at the same time; they long to get away from social contracts, having to dress well for other people, having to be nice when they don't want to, and yet still do all of it. If Gamma's primary motif is "be yourself", then delta's would be "be as good as your word".

    I think I described other quadras much better than my own. Oh well.

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    by material driven do you mean materialistic in the sense of concerned with possessions and physical stuff, cause i think that's as far removed from anything i am as any description can be.

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    that being said i think your description of alpha points at people that i am attracted to for the reason that they are different from me in many of those respects. but i'm not sure why you call it "material driven" because it seems to point at mostly intangible things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    If Gamma's primary motif is "be yourself", then delta's would be "be as good as your word".
    I like this.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    don't like the implication that my quadra is opposite to "being yourself", but whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    don't like the implication that my quadra is opposite to "being yourself", but whatever.
    It's not opposite, it's just not a priority. What's that in your avatar?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    It's not opposite, it's just not a priority.
    that is still disastrously wrong.

    What's that in your avatar?
    i'm sure you can figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    that is still disastrously wrong.
    What's wrong about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    i'm sure you can figure it out.
    I won't bother.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    What's wrong about it?
    the fact that you need to ask disgusts me and leaves me unwilling to say another word to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    don't like the implication that my quadra is opposite to "being yourself", but whatever.
    "be real" is meant in a very specific sense, in that i find gammas have a higher threshold for accepting as well as displaying ugliness as part of themselves. not implying that alphas are fake or unreal in any sense, just that if those aspects don't jive with the environment, they're kept private. i guess the analogous sentiment for alpha would be "be your best self".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    I don't think there was a Gamma equivalent in my school, lol. I mean there were a few people who were distinctly Gamma but I don't think they ever coalesced into a clique or anything. I remember there were these two guys, Se-ESFp and Te-INTp, who would sit at the far end of the class who wouldn't talk very much but when asked to parody someone, they would quickly jump up and do hilariously well. In strict contrast with Betas who relied, I suppose, on subtler cues to join in on the fun where they saw an opening, the Gammas would wait for the "right time" to be funny, to make noises or joke around, when they could be absolutely sure they wouldn't annoy anyone. None of the Gammas I knew cared much for clothing or whether they looked "good", they dressed kind of shabby except when they were formally required to dress well, there was no "aesthetic tone" to the things they did or said and neither did they put much value in those things. Gammas struck me as the most "be real" quadra, as the people least judgmental of differences or disabilities or things like that.
    I've noticed this about Gamma, too. They seem to be the least "quadra-ish" of the quadras. They're also the hardest for me to pin down, and I often have trouble differentiating SEEs from SLEs, etc. I think this might also be why we have so few Gammas on the forum as well, lol.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    "be real" is meant in a very specific sense, in that i find gammas have a higher threshold for accepting as well as displaying ugliness as part of themselves. not implying that alphas are fake or unreal in any sense, just that if those aspects don't jive with the environment, they're kept private. i guess the analogous sentiment for alpha would be "be your best self".
    i think you have a very confused idea of what it means to "be yourself". being yourself is not something you can just do passively by just accepting contingent features of your identity as they are given to you by "fate". it is the complete opposite of that. it is about refusing to accept ugliness in yourself as per your personal definition of it. it is about NOT letting the peripheral features of your identity dictate what your identity is at it's core. it is about reversing that process.

    it is also about rejecting the influence of environment on your core identity, which incidentally alphas have neither trouble nor qualms with doing.

    if any of this was what you were referring to in the first place you really shouldn't be using the phrase "being yourself" to denote its opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    i think you have a very confused idea of what it means to "be yourself". being yourself is not something you can just do passively by just accepting contingent features of your identity as they are given to you by "fate". it is the complete opposite of that. it is about refusing to accept ugliness in yourself as per your personal definition of it. it is about NOT letting the peripheral features of your identity dictate what your identity is at it's core. it is about reversing that process.
    you kind of repeated what i said, but maybe that's how it sounded it my head and it came off differently.

    i guess it was vague enough to be interpreted at least two different ways, i need to think of a better term for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    the fact that you need to ask disgusts me and leaves me unwilling to say another word to you.
    I should care? Your problem if you don't want to explain yourself. I asked because I wanted to know where (exactly) you're coming from. I won't make any assumptions.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I should care? Your problem if you don't want to explain yourself. I asked because I wanted to know where (exactly) you're coming from. I won't make any assumptions.
    why should i waste words on a person without a self-concept, someone just dancing to the tune of some image projected by his surroundings. why should i treat you like you even register my words. you're just an empty husk without a mind inside, without a soul to distinguish you from a mere object. you can't tell me your opinions because what passes for them is a facade. if you tell me that you "feel" you're just reflexing to a stimulus. if you shed a tear it's no more than a vacuous gambit. i might as well prod your body with a needle or cut you with a knife, there's no one in there to anguish over it. i think i'll round up some friends to experiment on you for our entertainment, but wait, my mistake, i said "you" and there is no you. no. there's just a stale, damp, residue of human existence. just a heap of vapid mass for us to violate, to tear and bite.

    i mean i'm at a loss as to how to communicate with you. maybe you'd understand when you're returned the favor or something. i tried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    why should i waste words on a person without a self-concept, someone just dancing to the tune of some image projected by his surroundings. why should i treat you like you even register my words. you're just an empty husk without a mind inside, without a soul to distinguish you from a mere object. you can't tell me your opinions because what passes for them is a facade. if you tell me that you "feel" you're just reflexing to a stimulus. if you shed a tear it's no more than a vacuous gambit. i might as well prod your body with a needle or cut you with a knife, there's no one in there to anguish over it. i think i'll round up some friends to experiment on you for our entertainment, but wait, my mistake, i said "you" and there is no you. no. there's just a stale, damp, residue of human existence. just a heap of vapid mass for us to violate, to tear and bite.

    i mean i'm at a loss as to how to communicate with you. maybe you'd understand when you're returned the favor or something. i tried.
    you sound like Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    you sound like Nietzsche
    no, Nietzsche sounds like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    you kind of repeated what i said, but maybe that's how it sounded it my head and it came off differently.

    i guess it was vague enough to be interpreted at least two different ways, i need to think of a better term for it.
    Maybe it's a language issue? labster is in the U.K., right? And Radio, you're in the U.S.? In American colloquial English, we have a phrase "keepin' it real." I think that's more how Radio meant it. It means basically being blunt and honest about your feelings/opinions -- including the negative ones, without being too bothered by social niceties or keeping the peace. Often, people just use it as an excuse to be rude, but sometimes honesty, even painfully blunt honesty, is refreshing.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    labcoat = netherlands
    radio = undisclosed middle eastern country (I think?)

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    Ah k, thanks. Nevermind then.

    FWIW, I think Gammas version of "being real" is a result of not valuing . Alphas can keep it real, but because they value they do it with an eye towards how to best achieve a certain positive result: keeping people in high spirits, maintaining good relations, enjoying experiences more, etc. Gammas will just say it if they think it's true, and whatever happens... happens, lol.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by baby
    Maybe it's a language issue? labster is in the U.K., right? And Radio, you're in the U.S.? In American colloquial English, we have a phrase "keepin' it real." I think that's more how Radio meant it. It means basically being blunt and honest about your feelings/opinions -- including the negative ones, without being too bothered by social niceties or keeping the peace. Often, people just use it as an excuse to be rude, but sometimes honesty, even painfully blunt honesty, is refreshing.
    i'm neither in the US nor in the UK, although most of the materials i read and communities i visit are US centered so that's probably what my grasp of the language is most influenced by. i'm bothered by it that you imply that my interpretation of "being yourself" had anything to do with niceties and keeping peace. i'm curious what part of my writing suggested that to you, because i'm sure i didn't consciously try to convey anything of the sort. i get the impression you're reading what you want to see to protect a stereotyped view of alpha from cognitive dissonance.

    ps. do any of my posts in this thread make it look like i'm concerned with niceties and peace keeping?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    i'm neither in the US nor in the UK, although most of the materials i read and communities i visit are US centered so that's probably what my grasp of the language is most influenced by. i'm bothered by it that you imply that my interpretation of "being yourself" had anything to do with niceties and keeping peace. i'm curious what part of my writing suggested that to you, because i'm sure i didn't consciously try to convey anything of the sort. i get the impression you're reading what you want to see to protect a stereotyped view of alpha from cognitive dissonance.

    ps. do any of my posts in this thread make it look like i'm concerned with niceties and peace keeping?
    The "niceties and keeping the peace" part was just the generally understood definition of "keeping it real" -- not based on your post. My general impression of Alpha is also one of peaceful relations. I'm not saying it's true and that you're wrong to object to it or anything. It's simply that, IME, most of the Alpha types I know tend to be fun-loving and easy-going, and tend to value keeping that positive, warm feel to their interactions. That's just my experience, though. They'll go out of their way to make things smooth and pleasant. That doesn't mean they aren't honest or "real" -- simply that the honesty or realness is usually expressed in a way that's less blunt and unadorned than is prevalent in Gamma, where isn't valued. I don't see it as a bad thing, and it's definitely not true all the time. I especially have had conflicts with ESEs in the past, and they get very dramatic and cutting when we conflict. (That's the other side of .) That's simply my experience with Alphas. (And possibly Radio's?) If you disagree, you definitely would know your own quadra.

    And no, you don't seem averse to stirring up a ruckus.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    One thing I find about deltas is that there's a ubiquitous conflict between what they embrace and what they reject; almost all of them simultaneously reject social customs/norms and follow them at the same time; they long to get away from social contracts, having to dress well for other people, having to be nice when they don't want to, and yet still do all of it. If Gamma's primary motif is "be yourself", then delta's would be "be as good as your word".
    Yes. I've never seen it described so well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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